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sister in islam

A Shia Muslim Man Takes Part In Honour Killing

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World news | Iraq

'My daughter deserved to die for falling in love'

Two weeks ago, The Observer revealed how 17-year-old student Rand Abdel-Qader was beaten to death by her father after becoming infatuated with a British soldier in Basra. In this remarkable interview, Abdel-Qader Ali explains why he is unrepentant - and how police backed his actions. Afif Sarhan in Basra and Caroline Davies report

Afif Sarhan in Basra and Caroline Davies · 11/05/2008 · guardian.co.uk

For Abdel-Qader Ali there is only one regret: that he did not kill his daughter at birth. 'If I had realised then what she would become, I would have killed her the instant her mother delivered her,' he said with no trace of remorse.

Two weeks after The Observer revealed the shocking story of Rand Abdel-Qader, 17, murdered because of her infatuation with a British soldier in Basra, southern Iraq, her father is defiant. Sitting in the front garden of his well-kept home in the city's Al-Fursi district, he remains a free man, despite having stamped on, suffocated and then stabbed his student daughter to death.

Abdel-Qader, 46, a government employee, was initially arrested but released after two hours. Astonishingly, he said, police congratulated him on what he had done. 'They are men and know what honour is,' he said.

Rand, who was studying English at Basra University, was deemed to have brought shame on her family after becoming infatuated with a British soldier, 22, known only as Paul.

She died a virgin, according to her closest friend Zeinab. Indeed, her 'relationship' with Paul, which began when she worked as a volunteer helping displaced families and he was distributing water, appears to have consisted of snatched conversations over less than four months. But the young, impressionable Rand fell in love with him, confiding her feelings and daydreams to Zeinab, 19.

It was her first youthful infatuation and it would be her last. She died on 16 March after her father discovered she had been seen in public talking to Paul, considered to be the enemy, the invader and a Christian. Though her horrified mother, Leila Hussein, called Rand's two brothers, Hassan, 23, and Haydar, 21, to restrain Abdel-Qader as he choked her with his foot on her throat, they joined in. Her shrouded corpse was then tossed into a makeshift grave without ceremony as her uncles spat on it in disgust.

'Death was the least she deserved,' said Abdel-Qader. 'I don't regret it. I had the support of all my friends who are fathers, like me, and know what she did was unacceptable to any Muslim that honours his religion,' he said.

Sitting on a chair by his front door and surrounded by the gerberas and white daisies he had planted in the family garden, Abel-Qader attempted to justify his actions.

'I don't have a daughter now, and I prefer to say that I never had one. That girl humiliated me in front of my family and friends. Speaking with a foreign solider, she lost what is the most precious thing for any woman. 'People from western countries might be shocked, but our girls are not like their daughters that can sleep with any man they want and sometimes even get pregnant without marrying. Our girls should respect their religion, their family and their bodies.

'I have only two boys from now on. That girl was a mistake in my life. I know God is blessing me for what I did,' he said, his voice swelling with pride. 'My sons are by my side, and they were men enough to help me finish the life of someone who just brought shame to ours.'

Abdel-Qader, a Shia, says he was released from the police station 'because everyone knows that honour killings sometimes are impossible not to commit'. Chillingly, he said: 'The officers were by my side during all the time I was there, congratulating me on what I had done.' It's a statement that, if true, provides an insight into how vast the gulf remains between cultures in Iraq and between the Basra police the British army that trains them.

Sources have indicated that Abdel-Qader, who works in the health department, has been asked to leave because of the bad publicity, yet he will continue to draw a salary.

And it has been alleged by one senior unnamed official in the Basra governorate that he has received financial support by a local politician to enable him to 'disappear' to Jordan for a few weeks, 'until the story has been forgotten' - the usual practice in the 30-plus cases of 'honour' killings that have been registered since January alone.

Such treatment seems common in Basra, where militias have partial control, especially in the districts on the outskirts where Abdel-Qader lives.

While government security forces and British troops have control over the centre, around the fringes militants can still be seen everywhere on the streets or at the checkpoints they have erected. And they have imposed strict laws of behaviour for all the local people, including what clothing should be worn and what religious practices should be observed. There are reports of men having their hands cut off for looting and women being killed for prostitution.

Homosexuality is punishable by death, a sentence Abdel-Qader approves of with a passion. 'I have alerted my two sons. They will have the same end [as Rand] if they become contaminated with any gay relationship. These crimes deserve death - death in the name of God,' he said.

He said his daughter's 'bad genes were passed on from her mother'. Rand's mother, 41, remains in hiding after divorcing her husband in the immediate aftermath of the killing, living in fear of retribution from his family. She also still bears the scars of the severe beating he inflicted on her, breaking her arm in the process, when she told him she was going. 'They cannot accept me leaving him. When I first left I went to a cousin's home, but every day they were delivering notes to my door saying I was a prostitute and deserved the same death as Rand,' she said.

'She was killed by animals. Every night when go to bed I remember the face of Rand calling for help while her father and brothers ended her life,' she said, tears streaming down her face.

She was nervous, clearly terrified of being found, and her eyes constantly turned towards the window as she spoke. 'Rand told me about the soldier, but she swore it was just a friendship.

'She said she spoke with him because she was the only English speaker. I raised her in a religious manner and she never went out alone until she joined the university and then later when she was doing aid work.

'Even now, I cannot believe my ex-husband was able to kill our daughter. He wasn't a bad person. During our 24 years of marriage, he was never aggressive. But on that day, he was a different person.'

The mother is now trying to raise enough money to escape abroad. 'I miss my two boys,' she said. 'But they have sent a message saying that I am wrong for defending Rand and that I should go back home and live like a blessed Muslim woman,' said Leila, who is now volunteering with a local organisation campaigning for better protection for women in Basra.

One of those running the organisation, who did not want to be identified, said that Rand's case was similar to so many reported in Basra, with the only difference being she was in love with a foreigner, rather than an Iraqi.

'There isn't too much to say. Rand is dead. It is a tragedy and will be a tragedy for many other families in Iraq in the days to come.

'According to information we have been given, some from Rand's colleague, we have doubts that her love was reciprocated. We have the impression that Rand was in love, but the English soldier wasn't. But, for a girl to be paid nice compliments about her beauty and her intelligence, it was enough for her to think she was in love.

'She isn't here any more for her mother to ask any of the questions she would like to. Rand's case had repercussions because she fell in love with a foreigner. But what about the other girls murdered through "honour" killings because they fell in love with some of a different sect, or lost their virginity, or were forced to become prostitutes?'

Rand's mother used to call her 'Rose'. 'That was my nickname for her because when she was born she was so beautiful,' she said.

'Now, my lovely Rose is in her grave. But, God will make her father pay, either in this world ... or in the world after.'

Edited by sister in islam

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I am truly gobsmacked. Is this for real? I mean, I know the story is probably true, but I just don't want to be believe that the religion I have adopted and love so much allows for such a thing to take place, let alone be defended. Please tell me it is not true.... :donno:

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in islamic religion if a married person committed adultery and 4 witensses testified to having witnessed Extreme details of the intercourse , its only then that a sentence as harsh as death would apply

This girl did not even fornicate (which is only punished by lashes )

so her punishment if she deserved anything was even less than lashes and this idiot goes and kills her " to prevent shame"

he has brought up the biggest shame upon himself by breaching the laws of god and there is nothing more shameful than breaching the laws of your creator.

also its ruthless usually parents would find difficulty harming their child

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Whoever does an honor killing deserve to die themselves, with the only leeway given to those who catch their wives in the act, because they could reasonably plead temporary insanity. There is no excuse for killing your daughter because of some conversations, no matter how haraam they may have been.

These two parts are particularly worrying:

Though her horrified mother, Leila Hussein, called Rand's two brothers, Hassan, 23, and Haydar, 21, to restrain Abdel-Qader as he choked her with his foot on her throat, they joined in. Her shrouded corpse was then tossed into a makeshift grave without ceremony as her uncles spat on it in disgust.

Abdel-Qader, a Shia, says he was released from the police station 'because everyone knows that honour killings sometimes are impossible not to commit'. Chillingly, he said: 'The officers were by my side during all the time I was there, congratulating me on what I had done.'

Sounds like honor killings are a widespread part of the culture in Iraq, so probabaly the scholars need to be speaking out against this more. Is anyone aware of any fatwas against these types of killings given by major scholars?

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I am truly gobsmacked. Is this for real? I mean, I know the story is probably true, but I just don't want to be believe that the religion I have adopted and love so much allows for such a thing to take place, let alone be defended. Please tell me it is not true.... :donno:

as u r in pakistan, u can find such type of stories everyday in news papers . honor killings have nothing to do with religion but cultures . in india everyday hundreds of women killed in honour killings.

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Is anyone aware of any fatwas against these types of killings given by major scholars?

There's a sources (not sure how reliable) which say Sayyed Fadllulah issued a fatwa against it:

http://globalvoicesonline.org/2007/08/14/lebanon-fatwa-to-ban-honor-killings/

"Lebanon's most senior Shiite Muslim cleric issued Thursday a fatwa, or religious edict, banning honor killings, calling the custom of murdering a female relative for sexual misconduct “a repulsive act.”

The fatwa by Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah was a rare condemnation by a prominent cleric of the practice. Fadlallah's office said he issued the statement in alarm over reports on an increase in honor killings."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10504175

"Some of the fatwas (religious edicts) he issued were against female circumcision and "honour" killings"

and some others, just do a quick search on 'Ayatollah Fadlallah honour killings'. Though, I can't find the original fatwa...

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No statement from sistani? Why was he released after 2 hours? By God whoever released this criminal and whoever protects him from arrest should be thrown in jail.

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For her part, she shouldn't have fraternized with the enemy. Although that does not excuse the killing in any way. The best thing to do was not to have had any contact at all with a foreign invading soldier who's countrymen killed 500,000 of Iraqi children with sanctions, and also caused hundreds of thousands of children to be born with birth defects. While killing her is inexcusable, she should not have had any contact at all with an illegal foreign occupying child-murdering rapist soldier. I would be very angry too if my children were fraternizing with the enemy, though of course I wouldn't kill her.

And I also find it interesting that a British newspaper is choosing to focus on this story instead of, say, the Iraqi girl who was raped and then killed with her entire family.

And she was raped and killed by American soldiers by the way

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so her punishment if she deserved anything was even less than lashes

I know you said 'if she deserved anything' but it's kinda leaving a door open for punishment. How can one be punished for infatuation?

in india everyday hundreds of women killed in honour killings.

Where did you get that information? Are you speaking of Hindus or Muslims? India has been strict on this for a while, you may hear isolated cases but not even close to hundreds per day as you stated.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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I am truly gobsmacked. Is this for real? I mean, I know the story is probably true, but I just don't want to be believe that the religion I have adopted and love so much allows for such a thing to take place, let alone be defended. Please tell me it is not true.... :donno:

tis true indeed. And very sad....Honour killings is wrong end of. i've been doing assignments on it in university and majority cases are muslim families who use relgiion as an excuse but nowhere in the Quran does it justify honour killings. They might have erased the shame caused on their familiy through their daughters actions but in turn they themsleves are bringing shame to Islam. May Allah swt deal with these people justly.

I know you said 'if she deserved anything' but it's kinda leaving a door open for punishment. How can one be punished for infatuation?

Where did you get that information? Are you speaking of Hindus or Muslims? India has been strict on this for a while, you may hear isolated cases but not even close to hundreds per day as you stated.

5000 women/girls are killed each year due to 'honour' killings.

majority cases as muslims, but also hindus, sikhs, christians and so on....

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usually honour killings are about fornication or adultry and this case is a very a strange case which is probably chosen to make publicity.

Its very strange that they wouldn't arrest the man obviously the iraqi constitution would not let than man go out and would even kill him for such act.

the problem with honor killings is the crimes committed are often less than what anything that is punished by death...

Also the verdict is often based on suspicion and has no witnesses and the religion strictly requires 4 witnesses who witness extreme details of the intercourse and testify to it.

The case between the husband and wife is different if they got caught in the act.

Ugly jin :

teh reason i put a possibility of punishment is because i think we don't know the full story... just for talking to a man or saying she loved him he would go and kill her?? its sounds very strange .

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For her part, she shouldn't have fraternized with the enemy. Although that does not excuse the killing in any way. The best thing to do was not to have had any contact at all with a foreign invading soldier who's countrymen killed 500,000 of Iraqi children with sanctions

Well, the reality is, this particular soldier is just a peon of the overall military/government. This man most likely held no relation and/or responsibility to the death of the innocent.

Also, God bless America. Its nice being able to "fraternize" with people, without having to worry about being lashed or beaten to death by your parents.

Well, the reality is, this particular soldier is just a peon of the overall military/government. This man most likely held no relation and/or responsibility to the death of the innocent.

Also, God bless America. Its nice being able to "fraternize" with people, without having to worry about being lashed or beaten to death by your parents.

Ill rephrase that, thank God most of the world isnt so inhumane.

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Honour killings are on the rise in Iraq.....in Ninawa Province, a Kurdish Yezidia girl was killed by her tribe for falling in love with Kurdish Sunni Muslim and stoned to death, Basra is resembling kandahar with Taliban type Badr thugs roaming the streets with guns and arresting any woman who does not wear Hijab, they have closed all Churches, targetted assassinatioj of secular people is taking place. All the Police in Basra are from Badr corps , i.e Hakim;s band of thugs trained by the IRGC. Allah yehmik Iraq.

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Honour killings are on the rise in Iraq.....in Ninawa Province, a Kurdish Yezidia girl was killed by her tribe for falling in love with Kurdish Sunni Muslim and stoned to death, Basra is resembling kandahar with Taliban type Badr thugs roaming the streets with guns and arresting any woman who does not wear Hijab, they have closed all Churches, targetted assassinatioj of secular people is taking place. All the Police in Basra are from Badr corps , i.e Hakim;s band of thugs trained by the IRGC. Allah yehmik Iraq.

You came back with your stupid ideas and falls claims and accusations. Do you even have one trusted reference for what you BS here? Basra is not Fallujah and Badr group is not Baathist murderers or their allies Alqaida terrorists. We in Shia Islam never attack other people's places of worship or chase them out.

It is the groups whom you worship everyday who attack Shia worshipers, Christian churches and behead people behind the cameras. Because, that is what you stand for and those who are doing these activities want to come to power. Badr has no point for doing such low class activities, they are already legally in power, there is no need for them to terrorize people.

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I am sure that honor killings are prevalent in Iraq as in other countries however just an observation on this case maybe Iraqis can answer this.

In a country dominated by the mausaleum of Abdel Qadir Gilani a Sunni saint how many Shias would name their child Abdul Qadir.

secondly is Rand a genuine Arabic name I have never heard of the name. On the Indian sub-continent 'rand' means some woman of low morals does it not.

Just wondered whether this was a made up article by someone with a sense of 'humour'.

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Rand is the name of the Rand cooperation, a US right wing think-tank named after russian-american female writer and so-called philosopher, Ayn Rand. She was of askenazi jewish descent.

So to the above poster, I think this article is a load of BULL.

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The problem with these stories is that it is difficult to verify, because as ^ said, we are living in the age of information warfare. These think tanks like Rand, etc, have no problem releasing completely fake stories thru the media outlets that they own or control and these stories get picked up by other outlets with certain agendas and get echoed across the web, etc, etc. It is very possible, and it has been proved on SC before, that there are stories viewed by millions of people which are totally fabricated. I'm not sure about whether this one is or not. If it is true, it is very sad, haram. I don't see why maraja have to make a fatwa against murder. It is clear that it is already haram.

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You came back with your stupid ideas and falls claims and accusations. Do you even have one trusted reference for what you BS here? Basra is not Fallujah and Badr group is not Baathist murderers or their allies Alqaida terrorists. We in Shia Islam never attack other people's places of worship or chase them out.

It is the groups whom you worship everyday who attack Shia worshipers, Christian churches and behead people behind the cameras. Because, that is what you stand for and those who are doing these activities want to come to power. Badr has no point for doing such low class activities, they are already legally in power, there is no need for them to terrorize people.

Be careful before you slander Fallujah, loser. Fallujah is the burnig symbol of reisatnce and is etched in every Iraqis heart. Fallujah was the only city whoch defeted US occupation forces in 2004, even Muqtada al Sadr supported the mujahideen of Fallujah. The mujahideen of Fallujah were not Wahhabists or Takfiris as you falsely claim, they were nationalists and included both Sunni and Shia, they were mainly Army officers of the Saddam regime.

As for Basrah, you are free to go and check yourself. there is not a single bar or nightclub present in a city of 1 million, all have been burnt or closed down. The Badr thugs forcibly segregate boys and girls in schools and university. Basrah has become a mini-Iran, Badr want to make it a replica of Iran and they have succeeded. In any Police Station in Basra you will find a photo of Baqir al Hakim, when clearly this is forbidden by the "new" Constituiton. All the churches have been closed won, infact it is these Iran-supported crypto-baseejis who have slaughtred the Christians of Iraq, like Al CIA-da. Honour kilings and floggings are on the rise all over Iraq 9 including among Sunnis) and the Government doesn;t have the guts to stop it. Even Salafism is on the rise in Iraq, what has your Government done to stop that ? Your version of Iraq is a banana republic in a constant state of civil war. Your ideology divides Iraqi people on the basis of sect, shame.

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Man you should be banned for supporting Saddam. I can't believe the moderators of this site support users that are pro 1) Israel 2) Saddam 3) Al-Qaida, and anything else that represents and is against Shiites.

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Everyone should use their brains. I do not support whatsoever the murder of this girl, but stop being victims of British propaganda. This man murdered her because she was possibly having an affair with what he considered an invading soldier. That is all. It has nothing to do with "honour", just another filthy term our enemies have devised. I'm Lebanese, and if I had a daughter who had an affair with an invading Zionist soldier I would not be too pleased. BTW stop with this religion = honour killing filth OK. You all know religion has no blame.

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Everyone should use their brains. I do not support whatsoever the murder of this girl, but stop being victims of British propaganda. This man murdered her because she was possibly having an affair with what he considered an invading soldier. That is all. It has nothing to do with "honour", just another filthy term our enemies have devised. I'm Lebanese, and if I had a daughter who had an affair with an invading Zionist soldier I would not be too pleased. BTW stop with this religion = honour killing filth OK. You all know religion has no blame.

No that is not all. This is accepted killing by many and needs to be made known. The comments he made are proof of this. These men kill "in the name of God" and it should be known so it can change.

Hear again what he said:

Abdel-Qader, 46, a government employee, was initially arrested but released after two hours. Astonishingly, he said, police congratulated him on what he had done. 'They are men and know what honour is,' he said.

I know God is blessing me for what I did,' he said, his voice swelling with pride. 'My sons are by my side, and they were men enough to help me finish the life of someone who just brought shame to ours.'

Though her horrified mother, Leila Hussein, called Rand's two brothers, Hassan, 23, and Haydar, 21, to restrain Abdel-Qader as he choked her with his foot on her throat, they joined in.

Abdel-Qader, a Shia, says he was released from the police station 'because everyone knows that honour killings sometimes are impossible not to commit'. Chillingly, he said: 'The officers were by my side during all the time I was there, congratulating me on what I had done.'

These crimes deserve death - death in the name of God,' he said.

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