Halal And Kosher Hit By Dutch Ban

[.InshAllah.]

Halal and Kosher hit by Dutch ban

Next month the Dutch parliament is expected to approve a ban on halal and kosher methods of slaughtering animals for food.

Those who proposed the ban say it is simply an issue of animal welfare, but it received strong support from the right-wing Freedom Party.

Many see it as a violation of their religious freedom, and among the Jewish community it is a worrying echo of a similar ban brought in by Hitler.

Anna Holligan reports from The Hague.

Watch Video here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15610142

[only1]

The Dutch are seriously rasicts. They don't even know how to hide it like other places; sometimes they seem almost proud of that racism towrds religion.

[Marbles]

And far right makes another advance in the land of the freedom and democracy. Let's see which way the camel sits, colloquially speaking.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Marbles

[hejsansvejsan]

I suppose there were originally practical healthy reasons for kosher and halal. But today we have more modern methods. I am no expert. So I dare not say that kosher or halal slaughter is cruelty to animals. But isn´t vegetarian food halal? Why not become vegetarian? It is healthy and also good for the envirenment.

[ImAli]

Then I guess the entire country has to stop eating meat.....since killing an animal is the same no matter what.

[5a49]

Halal food, is scientifically proven to be healthy. Just because Islam, now its banned.

Al 'Ajal Al 'Ajal ya mawlay ya sa7ib al Zaman

[ImAli]

They want to stun the meat before slaughter. I think it is much more cruel to be electrocuted than just a clean cut to the throat.

[Marbles]

I suppose there were originally practical healthy reasons for kosher and halal. But today we have more modern methods. I am no expert. So I dare not say that kosher or halal slaughter is cruelty to animals. But isn´t vegetarian food halal? Why not become vegetarian? It is healthy and also good for the envirenment.

Becoming vegetarian is personal choice. A state can't impose it on people. This isn't the issue anyway.

[S.hassan]

Becoming vegetarian is personal choice. A state can't impose it on people. This isn't the issue anyway.

Remember the thing you said about Immigrants being in gas chambers in the next few decades? I see your point now.

[hejsansvejsan]

Becoming vegetarian is personal choice. A state can't impose it on people. This isn't the issue anyway.

The issue is whether it is cruelty to animals or not. And of course a state could prohibit consumption of meat. I believe consumption of human meat is already forbidden in most countries.

[Marbles]

Remember the thing you said about Immigrants being in gas chambers in the next few decades? I see your point now.

Oh yes. Signs are telling.

The issue is whether it is cruelty to animals or not. And of course a state could prohibit consumption of meat. I believe consumption of human meat is already forbidden in most countries.

I see that you aren't interested in discussing the topic. From where did the "human meat" come in??

[baradar_jackson]

This is a good move. The US and other European countries should follow suit.

[ImAli]

This is a good move. The US and other European countries should follow suit.

The would never work in the US because of the ADL....the jews would be all over that.

[baradar_jackson]

The would never work in the US because of the ADL....the jews would be all over that.

For kosher, yes.

But the ADL won't stick its neck out for halal meat.

I was referring to banning halal meat. I don't care what happens to kosher meat.

[ImAli]

For kosher, yes.

But the ADL won't stick its neck out for halal meat.

I was referring to banning halal meat. I don't care what happens to kosher meat.

Of course they won't care about halal meat....but the method is the same (clean cut to the neck or jugular vein). So if this type of slaughter is banned it would have to be banned for all including the jews....which is why the ADL would go crazy on it.

[baradar_jackson]

Of course they won't care about halal meat....but the method is the same (clean cut to the neck or jugular vein). So if this type of slaughter is banned it would have to be banned for all including the jews....which is why the ADL would go crazy on it.

Well then the US should ban that "bismillah arrahman arraheem" is said before the slaughter. How is that?

[ImAli]

Well then the US should ban that "bismillah arrahman arraheem" is said before the slaughter. How is that?

Impossible http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Of course they could abolish the first amendment. But what will they do? They can't watch everyone 24/7.

Edited November 7, 2011 by ImAli

[baradar_jackson]

Impossible http://en.wikipedia....es_Constitution

Of course they could abolish the first amendment. But what will they do? They can't watch everyone 24/7.

Dude, stop being such a buzzkill.

I said it would be good if they did it. Why do you have to make it this long, buzz-killing conversation about how its impossible?

[ImAli]

Dude, stop being such a buzzkill.

I said it would be good if they did it. Why do you have to make it this long, buzz-killing conversation about how its impossible?

LOOOOOL......am not a dude. And why would it be good if they did that? Aren't you Shia hahahaha? (someone is trying to create fitna) LOL

Edited November 7, 2011 by ImAli

[baradar_jackson]

LOOOOOL......am not a dude. And why would it be good if they did that? Aren't you Shia hahahaha? (someone is trying to create fitna) LOL

Oh sorry.

Stop being such a buzzkill, respected sister in Islam.

Fitnah? No, quite the opposite, actually. I want Western governments to interfere in Muslims' personal lives and infringe on their daily practice of their religion. This is the only way for Muslims in the West to retain and strengthen their identity.

Edited November 7, 2011 by baradar_jackson

[Marbles]

This is a good move. The US and other European countries should follow suit.

lol thriving on conflict dude? You and your ilk are the counterpart of Western far right, only that you belong to Islamdom (sic)

[baradar_jackson]

lol thriving on conflict dude? You and your ilk are the counterpart of Western far right, only that you belong to Islamdom (sic)

Not at all. I don't support the move in itself, but the outcome it would bring: a resolute, devoted core of Muslims in the West.

[ImAli]

Not at all. I don't support the move in itself, but the outcome it would bring: a resolute, devoted core of Muslims in the West.

This will only turn into riots if it is passed...which is exactly what they want to happen.

Edited November 7, 2011 by ImAli

[Lanatin]

Oh sorry.

Stop being such a buzzkill, respected sister in Islam.

Fitnah? No, quite the opposite, actually. I want Western governments to interfere in Muslims' personal lives and infringe on their daily practice of their religion. This is the only way for Muslims in the West to retain and strengthen their identity.

It's all about religious nationalism with you, nurturing the soul doesn't seem to be of any concern for you.

[hejsansvejsan]

Oh yes. Signs are telling.

I see that you aren't interested in discussing the topic. From where did the "human meat" come in??

You said a state cannot impose on people to be vegetarians (i.e. not eat meat). I disagree. So I just gave an example. Maybe you will understand if i give some more examples;

There are states that impose on people not to consume drugs. I believe there are some Muslim states that even impose on people to abstain from alcohol. Do you get my point?.

And if halal slaughter is cruelty to animals - if we now have less cruel methods - do you still believe God wants us to make animals suffer?

[ImAli]

How do we know that stunning the animal doesn't hurt or torture the animal? Did we ask the animal how it feels when being stunned?

[Marbles]

You said a state cannot impose on people to be vegetarians (i.e. not eat meat). I disagree. So I just gave an example. Maybe you will understand if i give some more examples;

There are states that impose on people not to consume drugs. I believe there are some Muslim states that even impose on people to abstain from alcohol. Do you get my point?.

And if halal slaughter is cruelty to animals - if we now have less cruel methods - do you still believe God wants us to make animals suffer?

Your example is completely irrelevant. We aren't talking about human meat, which no state would "allow" you to consume. We are talking about animals here. And to all animal rights activists out there, don't tell me that humans and animals have same rights.

What a state allows or not allows in practice is not a measure of my stated principle, which is, that, a state, a plural and democratic state, cannot ban consumption of meat under normal circumstances.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Marbles

[JimJam]

It's all about religious nationalism with you, nurturing the soul doesn't seem to be of any concern for you.

Good observation

[Professor Higgins]

As long as Muslims will be divided by narrow sectarianism promoted by vested geopolitical interests, they will continue to be treated in this way.

[hejsansvejsan]

What a state allows or not allows in practice is not a measure of my stated principle, which is, that, a state, a plural and democratic state, cannot ban consumption of meat under normal circumstances.

But cruelty to animals is forbidden in most normal (civilised) countries.So again the question is whether the kosher or halal way to kill mean cruelty to animals.

[ImAli]

I was reading more about this and they are saying the animal is suffering because it twitches. When you cut that deep into the throat of the animal as they do in a halal slaughter the animal dies instantly...twitching is normal. Here is an example of a dead animal twitching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJtnszk-CcA

Edited November 7, 2011 by ImAli

[5a49]

Unfortunately, when it comes to these stuff, you find israeli Newspapers making a huge deal out of these issues, while we Muslims, just sit down and talk about it in forums, or between friends and family.

[baradar_jackson]

It's all about religious nationalism with you, nurturing the soul doesn't seem to be of any concern for you.

How is this damaging for the soul?

[kadhim]

I don't understand. The story is not clear about the law's specifics. If it simply requires the animal to be stunned unconscious, our scholars have ruled that this is in order, so long as the animal is still alive at the time of slaughter. The major Sunni scholars say the same thing.