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Unfair That A Woman Must Observe Iddah After Muta'

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A woman performs Mut'ah, consummates the marriage and the contract ends. The guy is free to immediately find another partner and contract Mut'ah with her. The woman, on the other hand, has to wait for 3 months (iddah) before she can perform temporary marriage again... How is this justified?

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Why not ask the same question for permanent marriage, or in the case the spouse dies? The reason is always the same. You are basically asking why women have to observe iddah, and not men, but I'm sure you already know the answer to that.

By the way, the iddah for muta is not 3 months, it's 2 menstrual cycles or 45 days.

Edited by Haider Husayn

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With 21st century pregnancy tests, women can now tell whether they are pregnant between 10 - 14 days after intercourse. Maybe the iddah period needs to be revisited... I know this comment will cause consternation!!

As for being psychologically ready for the next mutah, in general, for obvious reasons, women are more cautious in this aspect than men so it I would leave it up to them to decide. If men want ready mutah partners though, they need to make it so that it is more doable for women.

Also re: 45 days for 2 cycles is optimistic - many women go longer than that.

Edited by Maryaam

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of course it is fair, its a way to ensure she is pregnant or not, and if she is, remove any doubt who the father is. isnt that common sense?

Yes, i've heard this justification and it doesn't make sense. Before the commencement of a temporary marriage, the couple lay down the conditions and the woman can simply state that she does not want to get pregnant. It's that simple.

As maryaam said, we live in technologically advanced age and we now have an TV, Ipad, Ipod, a fridge and... oh yes, pregnancy test products at your local supermarket!

This iddah is an expired concept. We really should start taking a contrastive perspective and put things into context.

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Also re: 45 days for 2 cycles is optimistic - many women go longer than that.

The problem if she has irregular cycle, long time in between!

but i read that one cycle is enugh, also that a woman after menapuse doesnt need to observe idda not sure about the source ...

With 21st century pregnancy tests, women can now tell whether they are pregnant between 10 - 14 days after intercourse. Maybe the iddah period needs to be revisited... I know this comment will cause consternation!!

As for being psychologically ready for the next mutah, in general, for obvious reasons, women are more cautious in this aspect than men so it I would leave it up to them to decide. If men want ready mutah partners though, they need to make it so that it is more doable for women.

Also re: 45 days for 2 cycles is optimistic - many women go longer than that.

Also why the woman can't marry four men, as the man have the right to, she can also choose whom to be pregnant with, by using condom with others!, this claim was for atheist in one forum!!

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There have been many changes in Muslim Society that reflect the current times and scientific advancement. We no longer ride camels, we have actually have cursive and electronic written history, and slavery is no longer an option, etc...

This is an interesting article http://www.allamaiqb...iew/apr92/4.htm

Retaining some aspects of the 7th century that is reflective of a different (and now very foreign) era and culture is not useful or constructive; in fact, it does just the opposite. A society that is dogmatically unwilling to change as needed, will stagnate and become obsolete. Many aspects and practices of our submission reflect our modern times but do not change the teachings of Islam.

Reflection is part of growth.

Edited by Maryaam

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Reflection is part of growth.

For human beings sure, but since these are God's laws, reflection and growth is not part of the equation. It's not like He didn't know how human society and technology would change in the future, and somehow need us to update it for Him.

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While it may be annoying for the women there have been instances where women haven't known they are pregnant until they are very far along....even after pregnancy and blood tests (it is rare but it happens more than you think).

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Maryaam, if iddah was simply to determine paternity, there probably wouldn't be different waiting periods for marriage, muta, and death of the husband, would there?

What other realistic reason would there be?

While it may be annoying for the women there have been instances where women haven't known they are pregnant until they are very far along....even after pregnancy and blood tests (it is rare but it happens more than you think).

This is true - but iddah wouldnt address this circumstance as it is not uncommon for women to have bleeding in the first couple of months after pregnancy. Probably the hormone detecting pregnancy tests would be far more accurate.

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This iddah is an expired concept. We really should start taking a contrastive perspective and put things into context.

You forget that the hypothetical impregnated women could always hide the fact that she's pregnant (besides the fact that pregnancy tests can be inaccurate), it would only be definitely confirmed without cynicism after a couple of those good ol' menstrual cycles. The Sharia removes all doubts.

I mean yeah the lass could take the artificial road and consume birth control pills, but this seemingly convenient exit only serves to bring in a heap of other negative factors, including: recurring headaches, blood clots and severe depression.

Remember the Islamic ideals are utilitarian so you should strive in broadening your outlook on all the various circumstances and inevitable consequences that spring forth from alternative decisions.

Edited by La'nat Ma Man

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You forget that the hypothetical impregnated women could always hide the fact that she's pregnant (besides the fact that pregnancy tests can be inaccurate), it would only be definitely confirmed without cynicism after a couple of those good ol' menstrual cycles. The Sharia removes all doubts.

That is very true....many of us never think of that because we wouldn't do such a thing....but that doesn't necessarily mean that someone else wouldn't attempt to hide a pregnancy.

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You forget that the hypothetical impregnated women could always hide the fact that she's pregnant (besides the fact that pregnancy tests can be inaccurate), it would only be definitely confirmed without cynicism after a couple of those good ol' menstrual cycles. The Sharia removes all doubts.

I mean yeah the lass could take the artificial road and consume birth control pills, but this seemingly convenient exit only serves to bring in a heap of other negative factors, including: recurring headaches, blood clots and severe depression.

Remember the Islamic ideals are utilitarian so you should strive in broadening your outlook on all the various circumstances and inevitable consequences that spring forth from alternative decisions.

Ok, but this scenario isn't relevant for every single shia woman out there. What if she doesn't get pregnant and, through pregnancy test, definitely knows that she isn't pregnant, what use is iddah for her then? It becomes an unecessary hindrance.

But it has been updated (adapted) in many aspects. Adaptation is very important in the perspective of cultural social change/advancement but the change does not need to cause deviation from the basic principles of Islam. Anyway this is not the topic, so apologies to the OP.

You're absolutely right. It has alot of relevance to the topic actually, the crux of the topic is that observation of iddah was used at a time when technology did not exist and now a major modification must be sanctioned, and like you said it won't deviate from islamic principles. Iddah should be used by those woman who feel that they need it or use it out of precautionary measure. Other than that, there's no reason why pregnancy test can't replace iddah for every other woman. I'm sure if this product existed back then, an iddah would be non-existent.

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^

It's like laws for different kinds of blood for women. Totally confusing.

Man? Sure.. but I can't imagine being a Muslim woman.

There must be some wisdom behind it however, and I don't see how claims to understand the reasons for iddah can be taken seriously until at the very least a satisfactory explanation is given for these differences.

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It seems pretty clear that only those who can bear children are to observe iddah. Those

1. under the age of 9 or

2. in menopause or

3. have not had intercourse with their husband, do not have to observe iddah.

So this would indicate that iddah is for practical purposes vs. ubiquitous spiritual reasons or rebound relationships.

It seems clear that iddah is to ensure that the paternity of the child is known. Nothing is more accurate to determine pregnancy than current pregnancy tests and nothing determines paternity more accurately than DNA testing. Many a man has unknowingly raised a child of another man in the past.

I don't understand the "hiding pregnancy" posts as a person can probably hide a pregnancy for at least 6 months (some have done so longer) which would totally circumvent the three month iddah. It wouldn't circumvent a hormone detecting pregnancy test though.

Sistani:

2519. A wife who is under nine and who is in her menopause will not be required to observe any waiting period. It means that, even if the husband has had sexual intercourse with her, she can remarry immediately after being divorced.

2520. If a wife who has completed nine years of her age and is not in menopause, is divorced by her husband after sexual intercourse, it is necessary for her to observe the waiting period of divorce. The waiting period of a free woman is that after her husband divorces her during her Pak period, she should wait till she sees Haidh twice and becomes Pak. Thereafter, as soon as she sees Haidh for the third time, her waiting period will be over and she can marry again.

If, however, a husband divorces his wife before having sexual intercourse with her, there is no waiting period for her and she can marry another man immediately after being divorced, except if she finds traces of her husband's semen in her private part, then she should observe Iddah.

2524. If a woman who has completed nine years of age, and is not in menopause, contracts a temporary marriage, for example, if she marries a man for a period of one month or a year and the period of her marriage comes to an end, or her husband exempts her from the remaining period, she should observe Iddah.

http://www.sistani.org/index.php?p=251364&id=48&pid=2358

Edited by Maryaam

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Even the Imams (as) couldn't change the laws of Allah, so it is certainly not for us to do. There is no hadith that I am aware of that says the only reason that iddah is to be observed is in order to determine paternity. That is simply one obvious reason. Since we don't know what the hidden reasons may be, we shouldn't mess with what Allah has revealed. It could simply be bad for society to have women being able to do several mutas in quick succession.

The arrogance of some people, that seem to think they can determine for themselves the reasons for which Allah (swt) made certain laws, and then to themselves abrogate those laws, is truly incredible. This life is about submission to Allah سبحانه وتعالى, not just doing whatever makes sense to you because you think you have it all figured out. People in the past, who weren't infected by this modern hubris, just followed the laws. They didn't constantly ask for everything to be explained to them before they obeyed. That is hardly what you can call submission.

well said bro.

may i also add, based on my own humble opinion and observations having been born and raised in the west where the female population can be described as say very promiscuous, having many sexual partners is not good for both males and females, but in the case of females i would say:

1. there will be a loss of intimacy with your life partner (the whole sexual experience will not mean as much after youve slept 100 + men)

2. i have noticed females become more masculine in the mannerisms as the number of partners go up

3. there will be an increased risk of STD

4. Another common side effect is the old 'wizards sleeve' syndrome, also referred to as a 'bucket'

the bottom line is mankind thinks they know everything, but in reality we know nothing. Why question Allah's swt decree? of course there are more serious social, spiritual and physical issues aside from determining pregnancy, ad many issues that the knowledge of which we will never know in this life

no offence meant to anyone, apologies if any has been taken

Edited by shabberhaider

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Even the Imams (as) couldn't change the laws of Allah, so it is certainly not for us to do. There is no hadith that I am aware of that says the only reason that iddah is to be observed is in order to determine paternity. That is simply one obvious reason. Since we don't know what the hidden reasons may be, we shouldn't mess with what Allah has revealed. It could simply be bad for society to have women being able to do several mutas in quick succession.

The arrogance of some people, that seem to think they can determine for themselves the reasons for which Allah (swt) made certain laws, and then to themselves abrogate those laws, is truly incredible. This life is about submission to Allah سبحانه وتعالى, not just doing whatever makes sense to you because you think you have it all figured out. People in the past, who weren't infected by this modern hubris, just followed the laws. They didn't constantly ask for everything to be explained to them before they obeyed. That is hardly what you can call submission.

very well said, i mean seriously some members arrogance (which they obviously dont see it themselves) is astonishing. A simple test is we should ask ourselves are we even muslims? A muslim is nothing but one who submits what Allah (swt) has said. There is no room for "I believe" and "This law needs to be changed" or love the one modern "shias" use: islam should also "evolve"

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It seems pretty clear that only those who can bear children are to observe iddah. Those

1. under the age of 9 or

2. in menopause or

3. have not had intercourse with their husband, do not have to observe iddah.

So this would indicate that iddah is for practical purposes vs. ubiquitous spiritual reasons or rebound relationships.

It seems clear that iddah is to ensure that the paternity of the child is known. Nothing is more accurate to determine pregnancy than current pregnancy tests and nothing determines paternity more accurately than DNA testing. Many a man has unknowingly raised a child of another man in the past.

I don't understand the "hiding pregnancy" posts as a person can probably hide a pregnancy for at least 6 months (some have done so longer) which would totally circumvent the three month iddah. It wouldn't circumvent a hormone detecting pregnancy test though.

Sistani:

2519. A wife who is under nine and who is in her menopause will not be required to observe any waiting period. It means that, even if the husband has had sexual intercourse with her, she can remarry immediately after being divorced.

2520. If a wife who has completed nine years of her age and is not in menopause, is divorced by her husband after sexual intercourse, it is necessary for her to observe the waiting period of divorce. The waiting period of a free woman is that after her husband divorces her during her Pak period, she should wait till she sees Haidh twice and becomes Pak. Thereafter, as soon as she sees Haidh for the third time, her waiting period will be over and she can marry again.

If, however, a husband divorces his wife before having sexual intercourse with her, there is no waiting period for her and she can marry another man immediately after being divorced, except if she finds traces of her husband's semen in her private part, then she should observe Iddah.

2524. If a woman who has completed nine years of age, and is not in menopause, contracts a temporary marriage, for example, if she marries a man for a period of one month or a year and the period of her marriage comes to an end, or her husband exempts her from the remaining period, she should observe Iddah.

http://www.sistani.org/index.php?p=251364&id=48&pid=2358

Very well said. These are imperative points that some people aren't getting.

very well said, i mean seriously some members arrogance (which they obviously dont see it themselves) is astonishing. A simple test is we should ask ourselves are we even muslims? A muslim is nothing but one who submits what Allah (swt) has said. There is no room for "I believe" and "This law needs to be changed" or love the one modern "shias" use: islam should also "evolve"

I couldn't disagree more. There isn't arrogance, neither rebellion involved ... it's intellect. Even Maraj3 use "aql" when interpreting narrations, why do you think they give out different rulings on the same issue? Even Imam Ali used this concept of "evolving" and put a narration of the Holy Prophet (sawa) into perspective through the context of the period of time he was living in:

There is a tradition of the Holy Prophet "With the help of hair-dye turn old age into youth so that you do not resemble the Jews". When Imam Ali was asked to comment on this tradition, he said that in the early stage of Islam there were very few Muslims. The Holy Prophet advised them to look young and energetic and not to adopt the fashion of the Jews (priest) having long, white flowing beards. But the Muslims were not in minority then, theirs was a strong and powerful State, they could take up any style they liked.

Furthermore, there are abrogated and abrogating verses in the Quran and in narrations. Why? Because circumstances fluctuate and there is always a need for an amendment. Technology abrogates Iddah, the same way a car abrogates a camel, the same way a phone abrogates sending written letters, the same way central heating system abrogates kindling a fire from wood, and i could go on and on and on - Of course, this doesn't mean you can't ride a camel or make fire or send written letters, you CAN use it, but you don't HAVE to use it if a more advanced and upgraded means is available.

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^Iddah is a law. Every other example you gave isn't a law, so that doesn't work.

You are treading on dangerous ground by trying to 'reform' Islamic laws. God knew His laws are meant to last for all-times when He gave us the laws and He knew society and technology would change.

Shall we now build a computer system that prays for us, rather than do it physically ourself because physical prayer is 'outdated' and we must move with the times?

No technology is bigger than the laws of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

It's not up to us to change laws or even comment on them in such a way. It is arrogance and inadvertently suggesting 'I know better than God'.

Edited by Replicant

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I couldn't disagree more. There isn't arrogance, neither rebellion involved ... it's intellect. Even Maraj3 use "aql" when interpreting narrations, why do you think they give out different rulings on the same issue? Even Imam Ali used this concept of "evolving" and put a narration of the Holy Prophet (sawa) into perspective through the context of the period of time he was living in:

There is a tradition of the Holy Prophet "With the help of hair-dye turn old age into youth so that you do not resemble the Jews". When Imam Ali was asked to comment on this tradition, he said that in the early stage of Islam there were very few Muslims. The Holy Prophet advised them to look young and energetic and not to adopt the fashion of the Jews (priest) having long, white flowing beards. But the Muslims were not in minority then, theirs was a strong and powerful State, they could take up any style they liked.

Furthermore, there are abrogated and abrogating verses in the Quran and in narrations. Why? Because circumstances fluctuate and there is always a need for an amendment. Technology abrogates Iddah, the same way a car abrogates a camel, the same way a phone abrogates sending written letters, the same way central heating system abrogates kindling a fire from wood, and i could go on and on and on - Of course, this doesn't mean you can't ride a camel or make fire or send written letters, you CAN use it, but you don't HAVE to use it if a more advanced and upgraded means is available.

Qiyas much my friend? Let's take your given examples one at a time.

Was it a LAW that camels should be used? How in the hell are you comparing this to a LAW? "car abrogates a camel" doesn't stand for comparison. The same goes for the examples of "phone abrogates sending letters" "central heating system abrogates kindling a fire from wood". How are you comparing these things to a fully established Law in the Sharia?

That said, show me one example of a LAW, (not the bogus examples you've written) that modern time scholars have ABROGATED completely... I'm talking something similar to "hey we got technology, so no more need for Iddah".

You folks should realize that when a law is established by Islam, and that not enough reasons are given for it, it is not the right of ANYONE to meddle with those laws, not even bend them. Haidar Husayn put it really fittingly; the arrogance of people here is truly astounding.

Hey let's abolish the 5 daily prayers too while we're at it.

[/sarcasm]

Actually I was thinking of cloning ourselves and let our clone do all the praying for us... I think your idea trumps mine. WIN WIN BABY!

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Yes....it should help prevent someone from jumping into a "rebound" relationship.

If this is the case then shouldn't men also need the Eddah so they don't jump from one relationship to another?

But then again it wouldn't really work because polygamous men with a number of wives won't be expected to do Eddah if he divorced one of his wives.

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Qiyas much my friend? Let's take your given examples one at a time.

Was it a LAW that camels should be used? How in the hell are you comparing this to a LAW? "car abrogates a camel" doesn't stand for comparison. The same goes for the examples of "phone abrogates sending letters" "central heating system abrogates kindling a fire from wood". How are you comparing these things to a fully established Law in the Sharia?

That said, show me one example of a LAW, (not the bogus examples you've written) that modern time scholars have ABROGATED completely... I'm talking something similar to "hey we got technology, so no more need for Iddah".

You folks should realize that when a law is established by Islam, and that not enough reasons are given for it, it is not the right of ANYONE to meddle with those laws, not even bend them. Haidar Husayn put it really fittingly; the arrogance of people here is truly astounding.

Actually I was thinking of cloning ourselves and let our clone do all the praying for us... I think your idea trumps mine. WIN WIN BABY!

Qiyas? Are you sure what i just did literally defines Qiyas? Maybe it does to some extent, but, after i posted it, i realized that perhaps the way i exemplified my rationales was a bit weak, although it still makes sense.

You're right, i need to bring you an example of a law that was abrogated ... Read this again:

There is a tradition of the Holy Prophet "With the help of hair-dye turn old age into youth so that you do not resemble the Jews". When Imam Ali was asked to comment on this tradition, he said that in the early stage of Islam there were very few Muslims. The Holy Prophet advised them to look young and energetic and not to adopt the fashion of the Jews (priest) having long, white flowing beards. But the Muslims were not in minority then, theirs was a strong and powerful State, they could take up any style they liked.

Remember, whatever the Holy Prophet (sawa) orders becomes a law and must be followed. Later on, Imam Ali (a) said that this law had been abrogated because it was no longer applicable during His time period and He gave a reason for it. In the same way, iddah was used for a specific reason, Iddah was intended to ensure that the male parent of any offspring produced after the cessation of a nikah would be known, but now pregnancy test products exist in the 21st century and this logically negates the use of iddah, just the same way Imam Ali (a) negated the ruling of the Holy Prophet (sawa)

This is not Qiyas, it's Aql.

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