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El-shia

A Hindu And India Its Role The Battle Of Kerbala

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Salam Alekum everyone

I often read about how India played a role in the battle of Kerbala .

Like the history of the Brahman Hussaini and their connection to the battle of Kerbala.

And some stories of how Indians were part of the Mokthar's army .

Or this story of how an Indian Army arrived late and found Hussain's Army Masacered .

What is true of this?

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Well...the Brahman Hussaini really do exist , they are a group of Hindus who remember Imam Hussain every year even though they are not muslims.

And Ashura is very present in India even among the non Muslims , SOMETHING has happend maybe that inspired some hindus to remember the Imam .

Here is an new article about Hindus participating during Muharram .

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2008-01-21/patna/27750686_1_muharram-procession-hazrat-imam-hussain-month-of-islamic-calendar

Edited by El-shia

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Well...the Brahman Hussaini really do exist , they are a group of Hindus who remember Imam Hussain every year even though they are not muslims.

Correct. They hail from Northern India (Uttar Pradesh). There is also a connection between the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) and the Vedas where he has been described as the "Shambala" one who hails from the desert and rides a horse (Boraaq).

You may refer to other threads on this subject and Insh'Allah it will give you some insight and knowledge !

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Correct. They hail from Northern India (Uttar Pradesh). There is also a connection between the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) and the Vedas where he has been described as the "Shambala" one who hails from the desert and rides a horse (Boraaq).

You may refer to other threads on this subject and Insh'Allah it will give you some insight and knowledge !

These stories were created in order to attract Hindus to Shiaism and has had a modicum of sucess historically. The Hussaini Brahmins are probably similar to the Hindu Shias who were 'converted' by a Shia Peer. but remained in Taquiya . A lot of Hindu Shias came out of Taqiya in 1947 and declared they were actually Ismaili.

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Ismailis are different from Hussaini Brahmins ....... the Brahmins are high order HIndus or Temple Priests.

The Hussaini Brahmins believe in Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.a) and follow the Tradition of Muharram to mourn the Martyrdom of our Imam - Hussain (A.S)

An article on Hussaini Brahmins - http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/16-31May04-Print-Edition/1605200441.htm

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what a joke :lol:

This whole thread is a total joke, as is the article posted above. Why is it every deviant group that comes along and has tries to attach themsleves to Imam al-Husayn (a) or to shi'ism in general is welcomed with open arms, even if their beliefs make them enemies of Allah.

Of course the hindus would take part in these ceremonies, they probably influenced most of them, but even for them, it has gone too far

'The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage, some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant'

'And so, these and scores of other religious communities that once straddled the frontier between Hinduism and Islam seem destined for perdition, or else to folkloric curiosities that tell of a bygone age, when it was truly possible to be both Hindu as well as Muslim at the same time.'

http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/16-31May04-Print-Edition/1605200441.htm

It seems the hindus and others have realised that you shouldn't go around mixing religions up, maybe it's time for the muslims to realise the same thing

I mean seriously, look at this

'In large parts of rural India, Hindus believe that if barren women slip under a Moharrum alam they would be blessed with a child'

??? You hear this kind of nonsense from muslims as well, who influenced who?

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Salam,

I think it's not a good idea to reject anything which. Doesn't suit the heart's palate. Imam Hussain a.S's wife bibi shaher banu was Persian and her cousin sister was the wife of the then Indian king. Imam Hussain a.s and that king were in touch through letters between the sisters.

The Hindu Brahmins in Kashmir until recently showed a letter of imam Hussain a.s which he a.s had written to the king of India about how yazeed l.a is hell bent in getting a bayat from him a.s.

The king thought there could be trouble so he had dispatched some troops to middle east for security of imam Hussain a.s. the troops learnt imam Hussain a.s was already killed so they went ahead to Iraq and settled at a place called hindiya (known as hindiya after these troops)

I am quite not sure of their role with hazrath mukhtaar but they were not enemies of imam Hussain a.s and that is enough for me to respect them and imam Hussain a.s knew better than shias of past and present to have contacted a Hindu rather than so called muslim rulers elsewhere?

And I am pretty sure Hindus will have a role in. In imam Mahdi ajf's army because we have ahadees that shias would turn away from him ajf and the sun worshippers and fire worshippers would become his shia.

And for your information there is a hussainiya (ashoor khana ) in every remote Indian village even where there is neither a Sunni nor a shia. I personally was surprised to see many tribal villages in deep forests (irrespective of south or north india) knew imam Hussain a.s and commomerate ashura every year in their own different ways.

Ya Ali Madad

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Salam,

I think it's not a good idea to reject anything which. Doesn't suit the heart's palate. Imam Hussain a.S's wife bibi shaher banu was Persian and her cousin sister was the wife of the then Indian king. Imam Hussain a.s and that king were in touch through letters between the sisters.

The Hindu Brahmins in Kashmir until recently showed a letter of imam Hussain a.s which he a.s had written to the king of India about how yazeed l.a is hell bent in getting a bayat from him a.s.

The king thought there could be trouble so he had dispatched some troops to middle east for security of imam Hussain a.s. the troops learnt imam Hussain a.s was already killed so they went ahead to Iraq and settled at a place called hindiya (known as hindiya after these troops)

I am quite not sure of their role with hazrath mukhtaar but they were not enemies of imam Hussain a.s and that is enough for me to respect them and imam Hussain a.s knew better than shias of past and present to have contacted a Hindu rather than so called muslim rulers elsewhere?

And I am pretty sure Hindus will have a role in. In imam Mahdi ajf's army because we have ahadees that shias would turn away from him ajf and the sun worshippers and fire worshippers would become his shia.

And for your information there is a hussainiya (ashoor khana ) in every remote Indian village even where there is neither a Sunni nor a shia. I personally was surprised to see many tribal villages in deep forests (irrespective of south or north india) knew imam Hussain a.s and commomerate ashura every year in their own different ways.

Ya Ali Madad

Brother do you have proof for any of this?

Especially that of Imam Husain(as) and an Indian King exchanging letters?

I ask this because I have inquired about this from a number of scholars, and all of them said this has absolutely no proof.

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'The Hussaini Brahmins, along with other Hindu devotees of the Muslim Imam, are today a rapidly vanishing community. Younger generation Hussaini Brahmins are said to be abandoning their ancestral heritage, some seeing it as embarrassingly deviant'

They are vanishing in the sense ... either adopting the Shia faith or maintaining a low key profile due to pressure from Hindu factions who at the drop of a hat would like to create for the Muslims and their allies.

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Brother do you have proof for any of this?

Especially that of Imam Husain(as) and an Indian King exchanging letters?

I ask this because I have inquired about this from a number of scholars, and all of them said this has absolutely no proof.

I haven't seen the letter personally but when I was in Kashmir few years ago the local guys told me that they have seen a letter from imam Hussain a.s to the Hindus. And its quite well known that imam Hussain a.s was leaving for India had kerbala not occurred.

Whatever is the truth; these Hindus are better than those Sunnis who cut the hands of shias when a hand of friendship is extended to them. And there are still shias who want to die for them and hate Hindus for being disbelievers in the god of Mohammad saww.

The nasibis are worse than haram najis animals.

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As usual with anything to do with the subcontinent, there is plenty of hearsay, but very little in the way of solid evidence.

Its not among the fard and neither does it expel u from religion. Don't you know that even if Hindus love imam Hussain a.s or any of our imams asws they won't be sent to hell. And they would neither go to heaven because they did not become momin.

There are many heresies all around the world bit when it comes to the subcontinent the word heresy is blown out of proportion?

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Its not among the fard and neither does it expel u from religion. Don't you know that even if Hindus love imam Hussain a.s or any of our imams asws they won't be sent to hell. And they would neither go to heaven because they did not become momin.

There are many heresies all around the world bit when it comes to the subcontinent the word heresy is blown out of proportion?

you cant be serious? We have our own Imams (as) saying about momins that just believing in their wilayah is not enough for salvation and you are saying that hindus will not enter hell?

I dont know who you have been listening to but those are not right beliefs.

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<p>There were many big Shia nawabs and zamidars during the British period in the sub continent . So during the Ashoora processions these Nawabs needed man force and Hindu peasants helped them . And anybody after seeing the aqeedat of Shias for moharram would be attracted. To this date in my home town in UP there are big ashoora processions and some Hindus still participate by offering snacks and drinks . But its the sunnis who create problems and try to disrupt the peaceful environment of the town. BTW the Hindus still call us Meer Sahabs and show their respect.</p>

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you cant be serious? We have our own Imams (as) saying about momins that just believing in their wilayah is not enough for salvation and you are saying that hindus will not enter hell?

I dont know who you have been listening to but those are not right beliefs.

I know what u are saying. You got to be a momin of deeds not just words. And our madhab encourages quantity with quality. No doubt about that.

I am not saying that the Hindus or any other non believers will go to heaven for their love for ahlulbayth a.s as the texts indicate and the rest is up to Allah azwj to decide about their fate. Our texts also indicate that love for ahlulbayth a.s will not take them to hell either as jahannum is haram on anyone who loves them a.s. they will have a separate place apart from heaven and hell Inshallah. And nasibis are not included among this category.

And why would a shia have problems with a Hindu who loves our imam Hussain a.s. His a.S's ship sails faster than the other masoomeen a.s and it will be baab al Hussain a.s through which most people will enter jannah

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you cant be serious? We have our own Imams (as) saying about momins that just believing in their wilayah is not enough for salvation and you are saying that hindus will not enter hell?

I dont know who you have been listening to but those are not right beliefs.

This is addresses to all ppl on this thread

Prophet (sawws) said, Jews will be divided into 71 factions, Christian into 72 factions and Muslims into 73 factions. In Muslims all but one shall enter paradise. - AND read what Imam Ali (A) says, One who sincerely strives for the truth and dies as a kafir does not deserve Hell.

I conclude Allah being Rahman and Rahim will not subject all mankind (who are not on truth) to Hell. It is stupid and illogical to believe otherwise.

Yes the only truth is that one faction Prophet (sawws) has pointed to, But ppl like Adil NawSharwan and Hatim Tai and other will not enter hell - MAY be many to Husaini Bramin (Najis) will not be driven into hell.

Allah does not test one beyond his/her ability. It is extremely difficult for a person buried under weight of christian/hindu/Sunni/and other belief to convert to Shia-Islam. And though the leaders of these faith will be subjected to severity (hell) for lying and hiding the truth their followers will only be judged according to their own understanding and merits - Don't be surprised if you see a Sunni/Christian/Jew higher in rank than yourselves in Jannah. -

Don't be fanatic narrow minded ..........

I read an article long time back - Cant remember the source. It was about two Hindu females whose dead bodies were burnt BUT their chest refused to burn? Upon attempts to learn the reason the leaders found that these ladies used to participate in matam-e-Husain during 10 days of Muharrum. Story is believable - Can you explain this? I believe these women will attain paradise.

Obviously, Allah does not test one beyond his ability - We see people of varying abilities - One comes across a Shia (follower of 12 imams) with so low ability of understanding that he does no know Gusl is wajib. His islam is to follow what others do (even whan they are wrong). - Such a person is in a way more like a religious faction of its own. Can any person say he will be sent to Hell, because of his low ability? So how can a Hindu, Christian, Jew or Suni person be sent to hell?

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^^ my friend neither you nor I can enter paradise if there is no Salat involved. I think we are taking of Jannah as a joke, its the place of the most pure. Any impurity within a human will not let him get into heaven unless he is cleansed. Your example about matam i am sorry i dont buy it.

There is also the well known event of two zakirs who were really pious but were poor so couldnt go for Hajj most of their life. They finally got an opportunity but one was lazy the other performed it. The one who was left behind died. He came in the dream of his brother explaining that he is pretty much stuck in barzakh since he missed the act which was Wajib.

My friend no amount of matam or crying will save if a person is missing the requirements and the Imams (as) are really clear about this. Do you really think Imam (as) would want to be in the company of some people who have never performed salat?

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^^ my friend neither you nor I can enter paradise if there is no Salat involved. I think we are taking of Jannah as a joke, its the place of the most pure. Any impurity within a human will not let him get into heaven unless he is cleansed. Your example about matam i am sorry i dont buy it.

There is also the well known event of two zakirs who were really pious but were poor so couldnt go for Hajj most of their life. They finally got an opportunity but one was lazy the other performed it. The one who was left behind died. He came in the dream of his brother explaining that he is pretty much stuck in barzakh since he missed the act which was Wajib.

My friend no amount of matam or crying will save if a person is missing the requirements and the Imams as.gif are really clear about this. Do you really think Imam as.gif would want to be in the company of some people who have never performed salat?

Allah (SWT) and our Aiemah (A) know best - We can only speculate based on out thinking.

The day of judgement is 50,000 years long.

ALSO the Punishments in Barzakh and on the day of Judgement are there to purify the sinners.

Is anything difficult and out of reach of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

Sin committed by Hur wiped out, in matter of hours. Also an examples of a loose woman amongst the Israeli whom no person would give gusl and bury in the grave of believers - A prophet ordered to attend to her mayiet (kaneez??) of Allah.

Allah knows best.

BUT how can we say adamantly that what we say will be executed by Allah (SWT) in the hereafter?

Can you say you understand all what you read, 100%?

Tell me how can you accept that a 6-7 years old kafir who died and got cremated - Will he be sent to hell - He does not even know what is right and wrong, and its beyond his ability to convert. Do you believe Allah(SWT) is unjust? Do you believe it is justice if this 6-7 years old end up in hell? Does he deserve Hell? Similarly there are many, who do not have the ability to read or write. They have no ability to understand Islam and the role of Ahlulbait - They are deep in the midst of ignorance and no money to escape their plight let alone react the doors of Islam. Do you believe it is just, they end up in Hell. What's the difference between those who believe this (hard lines) and the fanatics

I cannot come out and rubber stamp these will end up in hell, can you?

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Tell me how can you accept that a 6-7 years old kafir who died and got cremated - Will he be sent to hell - He does not even know what is right and wrong, and its beyond his ability to convert. Do you believe Allah(SWT) is unjust? Do you believe it is justice if this 6-7 years old end up in hell? Does he deserve Hell? Similarly there are many, who do not have the ability to read or write. They have no ability to understand Islam and the role of Ahlulbait - They are deep in the midst of ignorance and no money to escape their plight let alone react the doors of Islam. Do you believe it is just, they end up in Hell. What's the difference between those who believe this (hard lines) and the fanatics

I cannot come out and rubber stamp these will end up in hell, can you?

6-7 years old has no sin on him till he becomes baligh or can differentiate between good and evil.

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6-7 years old has no sin on him till he becomes baligh or can differentiate between good and evil.

What about those who do not have the ability to read or write. They have no ability to understand Islam and the role of Ahlulbait - They exist in jungles and villages, in midst of ignorance, and have no money to escape their plight, let alone reaching the doors of Islam. Do you believe these will end up in Hell?

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^^ bro you might wana do some research since you seem a little confused. Every person makes their own hell and heaven by our actions. Our deeds determine where we will be. Salat, fasting, hajj, khumms etc are the deeds that makes our heaven. Our sins fires the hell which we are making for our own self. Its not like Allah (swt) will just throw in fire become we been bad. Allah (swt) has said that you will enter what you have created for your own self.

If a person has not performed any good deeds what kind of heaven will he be in? Those with limited knowledge about islam will be forgiven since they didnt know sharia so they might avoid the hell fire but no heaven.

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