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zeinab94

Shake Hands In Formal Situations

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Asalamu Alaikum,,

i know this might be a dumb question but :mellow:

is it haram to shake hands with a teacher who is a male,,,,, iv never shaken hands with anyone before,, i usually ignore it or say i cant,,,, but i graduated from high school like a couple of weeks ago,,, and my teacher wanted to say goodluck to me for the future and then wanted to shake my hand,,,,,

has this situation happened to anyone else before,,, in a western country not everyone cares and some people take it as a offence,, i normally dont care if its just someone normal,, but wat if ur going on a interview for something,, or ur somewere formal,, is it still haram to shake hands ?? :wacko:

W/Salam

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SA,

Is it haram to go into a place where there is the opposite sex and there is a high chance of physical contact?

That being the public transport system?

WS.

Edited by RHMN

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(bismillah)

Yes, it is still haram. It's not hard to refuse a hand shake and say you don't for religious obligations. I did this when I was working.

في أمان الله

And then u weren't working anymore...

:lol:

jokes, no you are right, its haram no matter what, I think Syed Sistani says unless ur in a unbearable situation, but I dont know what that means in a practical sense.

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Shake hands in formal settings if you do not want to make a spectacle of yourself. Allah isn't your average mullah with a holy beard. He understands.

Are you qualified to give fatawa?

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Don't listen to ElCid, he is not bringing honor to Prophet (pbuh) at this moment. :)

Best thing is avoid the handshake as best as you can.

Ayatollah Sanei' says that in situations where you have to, you be the judge yourself if you should or should not.

1. One thing is for sure, never extend your hand first.

2. And if you have to shake, then just shake hand with your fingers, like a half hearted handshake. Good thing is, nobody holds females accountable for a "firm, powerful" handshake.

3. Never give the guys your full hand to shake so to speak with which a person can get to feel the full warmth and the sotness of your hand. An up to fingers hand shake is mostly boring and people do not get the feelings of pleasure with ts kind of handshake.

4. Also do not let men keep holding your hand, just a quick, really quick handshake and pull your hand back.

5. You can compensate for the perceived rudness by being nice and professional on other things.

No guy keeps women accountable for a bad handshake.

People do expect male to male handshake to be full, firm, and powerful handshake with proper eye contact.

Best.

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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It's clearly not allowed.

[ 25445 ] 1 Ü ãÍãÏ Èä íÚÞæÈ ¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã ¡ Úä ÃÈíå ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÃÈí ÚãíÑ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÃíæÈ ÇáÎÒÇÒ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÈÕíÑ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ¡ ÞÇá : ÞáÊ áå : åá íÕÇÝÍ ÇáÑÌá ÇáãÑÃÉ áíÓÊ ÈÐÇÊ ãÍÑã ¿ ÝÞÇá : áÇ ¡ ÅáÇø ãä æÑÇÁ ÇáËæÈ .

æÑæÇå ÇáÕÏæÞ ÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÃÈí ÈÕíÑ ¡ ãËáå .

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Ibn Abi `Umayr from Abu Ayyub the silk dealer from Abu Basir from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: I said to him: Does the man shake the hand of the woman who is not a mahram? So he said: No, except from behind a garment.

And as-Saduq narrated it by his isnad from Abu Basir likewise.

[ 25446 ] 2 Ü æÚä ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ ¡ Úä ÚËãÇä Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä ÓãÇÚÉ Èä ãåÑÇä ÞÇá : ÓÃáÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Úä ãÕÇÝÍÉ ÇáÑÌá ÇáãÑÃÉ ¡ ÞÇá : áÇ íÍá ááÑÌá Ãä íÕÇÝÍ ÇáãÑÃÉ ÅáÇ ÇãÑÃÉ íÍÑã Úáíå Ãä íÊÒæÌåÇ ÇÎÊ Ãæ ÈäÊ Ãæ ÚãÉ ÃæÎÇáÉ Ãæ ÈäÊ ÇÎÊ Ãæ äÍæåÇ ¡ æÃãÇ ÇáãÑÃÉ ÇáÊí íÍá áå Ãä íÊÒæÌåÇ ÝáÇ íÕÇÝÍåÇ ÅáÇ ãä æÑÇÁ ÇáËæÈ æáÇ íÛãÒ ßÝåÇ .

2 – And from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad from `Uthman b. `Isa from Sama`a b. Mihran. He said: I asked Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã about the shaking of the hands of a man and a woman. He said: It is not allowed for the man to shake the hand of the woman except the woman whom he is forbidden to marry, a sister or a daughter or a paternal aunt or a maternal aunt or the daughter of a sister (niece) or like it. And as to the woman whom it is allowed for him to marry, then he does not shake her hand except from behind the garment and he is not to feel her palm.

http://www.tashayyu....ies/chapter-115

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In response to ^ post, you read it, what imam (as) tell us.

I mostly avoid it by keeping an eye contact, making a quirky comment, my hands firmly on my back, keeping more than a arm length distance between myself and her, or keeping so small the distance that it is not even convenient to shake hand, depends on the setting.

Most of the time, girls won't even extend their hands once I be cool about it and kind of ignore before they even extend their hands.

There are other body gestures with which you can affect opponent's frame of mind so she would not even extend her hand. (talk about controlling those women) :) like your hands on your side of your hips, hands grasped at the back, hands grasped in front, holding a glass of water, a pen, a notebook, an iPad, introducing yourself before she would, so you take the lead and not extend your hand and still get an introduction back with the touching of hands and so on.

In response to ^ post, you read it, what imam (as) tell us.

I mostly avoid it by keeping an eye contact, making a quirky comment, my hands firmly on my back, keeping more than a arm length distance between myself and her, or keeping so small the distance that it is not even convenient to shake hand, depends on the setting.

Most of the time, girls won't even extend their hands once I be cool about it and kind of ignore before they even extend their hands.

There are other body gestures with which you can affect opponent's frame of mind so she would not even extend her hand. (talk about controlling those women) :) like your hands on your side of your hips, hands grasped at the back, hands grasped in front, holding a glass of water, a pen, a notebook, an iPad, introducing yourself before she would, so you take the lead and not extend your hand and still get an introduction back with the touching of hands and so on.

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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Don't listen to ElCid, he is not bringing honor to Prophet (pbuh) at this moment. :)

Best thing is avoid the handshake as best as you can.

Ayatollah Sanei' says that in situations where you have to, you be the judge yourself if you should or should not.

1. One thing is for sure, never extend your hand first.

2. And if you have to shake, then just shake hand with your fingers, like a half hearted handshake. Good thing is, nobody holds females accountable for a "firm, powerful" handshake.

3. Never give the guys your full hand to shake so to speak with which a person can get to feel the full warmth and the sotness of your hand. An up to fingers hand shake is mostly boring and people do not get the feelings of pleasure with ts kind of handshake.

4. Also do not let men keep holding your hand, just a quick, really quick handshake and pull your hand back.

5. You can compensate for the perceived rudness by being nice and professional on other things.

No guy keeps women accountable for a bad handshake.

People do expect male to male handshake to be full, firm, and powerful handshake with proper eye contact.

Best.

It's clearly not allowed.

[ 25445 ] 1 ـ محمد بن يعقوب ، عن علي بن إبراهيم ، عن أبيه ، عن ابن أبي عمير ، عن أبي أيوب الخزاز ، عن أبي بصير ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) ، قال : قلت له : هل يصافح الرجل المرأة ليست بذات محرم ؟ فقال : لا ، إلاّ من وراء الثوب .

ورواه الصدوق بإسناده عن أبي بصير ، مثله .

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Ibn Abi `Umayr from Abu Ayyub the silk dealer from Abu Basir from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: I said to him: Does the man shake the hand of the woman who is not a mahram? So he said: No, except from behind a garment.

And as-Saduq narrated it by his isnad from Abu Basir likewise.

[ 25446 ] 2 ـ وعن عدة من أصحابنا ، عن أحمد بن محمد ، عن عثمان بن عيسى ، عن سماعة بن مهران قال : سألت أبا عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) عن مصافحة الرجل المرأة ، قال : لا يحل للرجل أن يصافح المرأة إلا امرأة يحرم عليه أن يتزوجها اخت أو بنت أو عمة أوخالة أو بنت اخت أو نحوها ، وأما المرأة التي يحل له أن يتزوجها فلا يصافحها إلا من وراء الثوب ولا يغمز كفها .

2 – And from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad from `Uthman b. `Isa from Sama`a b. Mihran. He said: I asked Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام about the shaking of the hands of a man and a woman. He said: It is not allowed for the man to shake the hand of the woman except the woman whom he is forbidden to marry, a sister or a daughter or a paternal aunt or a maternal aunt or the daughter of a sister (niece) or like it. And as to the woman whom it is allowed for him to marry, then he does not shake her hand except from behind the garment and he is not to feel her palm.

http://www.tashayyu....ies/chapter-115

let me get this straight,,

so i know that its haram,, but if they come to u,,, and after they finish talking they put there hand out with a pause waiting for u to shake their hand back,,,, u basically have less then a sec to respond to it,, its ok to do it,, but not give a full hand shake,, and not give the palm out,,,, but try to avoid it

thankou :)

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Fadlallah might have even let you kiss the cheek.

No his ruling on this is actually stricter than Sayyed Sistani's. He doesn't allow physical contact under any circumstance.

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refuse with a quick explanation ('with all due respect...'), you'll be surprised at how understanding most people are about it. they can sense if you're stressed about it, which leads to general awkwardness so be calm and congenial about it.

if they have a major problem then you probably wouldn't want to work there anyway

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Fadlallah might have even let you kiss the cheek.

Let's do not blame a marja' out of our own ignorance. May be you intended it as a joke but if you think about it, this is serious.

I follow Sistani myself but never take any insult (or pun) on any marja' lightly. They all are experts and who are we to make fun of them (or criticize them).

let me get this straight,,

so i know that its haram,, but if they come to u,,, and after they finish talking they put there hand out with a pause waiting for u to shake their hand back,,,, u basically have less then a sec to respond to it,, its ok to do it,, but not give a full hand shake,, and not give the palm out,,,, but try to avoid it

thankou :)

yes Zeinab94 - kind of..

But watch for those people who try to shake your hands every day. This is not normal, people do not do it in any society :0 they must be up to something,.

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Let's do not blame a marja' out of our own ignorance. May be you intended it as a joke but if you think about it, this is serious.

I follow Sistani myself but never take any insult (or pun) on any marja' lightly. They all are experts and who are we to make fun of them (or criticize them).

yes Zeinab94 - kind of..

But watch for those people who try to shake your hands every day. This is not normal, people do not do it in any society :0 they must be up to something,.

thats the thing,, i agree with some things Sayed Fadlallah says but not with others,, and its the same with Sayed Sistani

yea i dont do it in normal sitution,, it just got me thinking in actual formal situation,,

thankyou :)

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Our resident A'lim Sayyid Rizvi once said that while he was doing his Master's studies, he was never seen without a book (sometimes many books) in his right hand. There was always something in his hand. I think this is helpful since people will perceive that you're holding something heavy, hence no handshake is expected.

Otherwise, you can sincerely tell them that due to religious reasons, I do not handshake. Sounds easier than practiced but doable.

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Our resident A'lim Sayyid Rizvi once said that while he was doing his Master's studies, he was never seen without a book (sometimes many books) in his right hand. There was always something in his hand. I think this is helpful since people will perceive that you're holding something heavy, hence no handshake is expected.

Otherwise, you can sincerely tell them that due to religious reasons, I do not handshake. Sounds easier than practiced but doable.

This is a good tactic, in most cases.

One time it was disastrous.

When, shortly after the revolution, Iran sent a diplomatic team to Cuba to expand ties, one of the diplomats was a woman. Before meeting with Fidel, she was briefed on how to avoid his handshake: she would hold a folder in one hand, and her chador in the other.

But Fidel, seeing that her hands were tied, hugged her instead!

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Then I will tell something funny.

Other than going to ridiculous lengths to avoid cross-gender handshakes, Iranians love to inquire about visitors' sectarian affiliations. Are you Shia? (or Sunni) comes as soon as you warm up in a convo with a complete stranger. A Pakistani expat living in Tehran went to see a doctor. During the appointment she got asked the inevitable question: "So, you are from Pakistan? (Yes). Muslim of course? (Yes) Shia or Sunni? (erm). The woman was Sunni and she understood that revealing her sectarian affiliation in a staunchly Shia country isn't the best thing to do. So she went in diplomatic mode and said: "I don't believe in sectarianism. To me all are Muslims and must be respected." The doctor seemed happy with the answer and said: "I also don't believe in sectarianism. I agree with you" *doctor grins*. The woman was surprised.

After a while the woman reluctantly asked the doctor about his sect. The doctor said with a broad smile: "I am Jewish".

This happened for real, by the way, back in the 80s.

Edited by Marbles

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it always happens to me! in the states it used to happen loads more tho.. but EVERY TIME it happens I put my hand on my chest and nod my head and say I am sorry I don't shake hands with men.. and once I was a newbie in a job and I was being introduced to everyone and the manger wanted to shake my hand and I said sorry.. he was shocked but got over it eventually.. Only time I shake hands w a man, was a super old man who was wearing leather gloves and I was wearing wool gloves! LOL

just stand by what u believe in Zainab and people will understand :)

btw, congrats for graduating! :)

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Shake hands in formal settings if you do not want to make a spectacle of yourself. Allah isn't your average mullah with a holy beard. He understands.

For some unknown reason the Prophet (saw) did not shake hands with the women when they gave him allegiance. I wonder why he did not, because I'm sure he knew that Allah wasn't your average mullah with a holy beard and he would have most certainly understood ;)

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This is a good tactic, in most cases.

One time it was disastrous.

When, shortly after the revolution, Iran sent a diplomatic team to Cuba to expand ties, one of the diplomats was a woman. Before meeting with Fidel, she was briefed on how to avoid his handshake: she would hold a folder in one hand, and her chador in the other.

But Fidel, seeing that her hands were tied, hugged her instead!

omg i wonder wat happen to her,, its funny wat he did,, but u feel bad for her

it always happens to me! in the states it used to happen loads more tho.. but EVERY TIME it happens I put my hand on my chest and nod my head and say I am sorry I don't shake hands with men.. and once I was a newbie in a job and I was being introduced to everyone and the manger wanted to shake my hand and I said sorry.. he was shocked but got over it eventually.. Only time I shake hands w a man, was a super old man who was wearing leather gloves and I was wearing wool gloves! LOL

just stand by what u believe in Zainab and people will understand :)

btw, congrats for graduating! :)

thats actually brave of u,, i just wonder the questions they will ask,,,, but im happy to tell them,,

thankyou :)

SA,

Is it haram to go into a place where there is the opposite sex and there is a high chance of physical contact?

That being the public transport system?

WS.

that actuall happen to me one time,, but i was with school,,,

i think if u have the choice of going on public transport, then u can wait until there is a carriage with not much people in it :)

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Yup, still harram, i see it ALL the time at my school, girls say they dont want to be rude, however, this is religion we're talking about people!

Oh and congrats on graduating :)

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Dearest holier than thou's. Picture this scenario.

There's a line of people waiting to enter heaven.

It's your turn to go in because you've been such a holier than thou all your life. The major sins were forgiven after all, weren't they?

An angel tells you: "wait stop! You shook hands with a woman! You are now condemned to the deepest pits of hellfire! Next."

...seriously?

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I attend a public university and from my experiences, the average individual is very understanding if you are willing to explain why you cannot his hand. Be polite about it and make sure they understand. In case of graduations and other ceremonies of that nature, make sure the person who will in responsible for shaking hands knows ahead of time that you cannot shake hands due to religious reasons. I did that for my high school graduation and countless events there after, just ask that they do not extend their hand after stating your reason and thank them for their understanding.

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I was told it was allowed in formal situations?

Maybe that's why my mother wanted to strangle me when I had to shake the [principal's hand at graduation.

Trust me, I didn't want to touch him but the whole school and the whole school's families were watching :cry:

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(salam)

Just shake hands and stop being an idiot. My advice

^lol, so tell me again, who's being an idiot?

---------------------

Just tell them in advance :).

Thats what I did for both my High school Grad. and University Grad. i just told them in Advance :).

Don't ever be embarrassed to say You can't shake hands. Nothing to be embarrassed about.

But always remember to tell them in a way that they won't take it personally.

Ya Ali (as)

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I was told it was allowed in formal situations?

Maybe that's why my mother wanted to strangle me when I had to shake the [principal's hand at graduation.

Trust me, I didn't want to touch him but the whole school and the whole school's families were watching :cry:

In the future, let them know in advance and trust me no one notices. I remember during my high school graduation, I let the administration staff know ahead of time and the principal handed me my diploma without shaking my hand and no one noticed except one of my mom's friends. Islam is a simple religions and as with all religions you accept the faith as a whole not just choose bits and parts of it and practice those. Please Allah swt before you attempt to please any of his creations. It's as simple as that =D

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Dearest holier than thou's. Picture this scenario.

There's a line of people waiting to enter heaven.

It's your turn to go in because you've been such a holier than thou all your life. The major sins were forgiven after all, weren't they?

An angel tells you: "wait stop! You shook hands with a woman! You are now condemned to the deepest pits of hellfire! Next."

...seriously?

Shake hands in formal settings if you do not want to make a spectacle of yourself. Allah isn't your average mullah with a holy beard. He understands.

Just shake hands and stop being an idiot. My advice

As one of our imams (as) (I think imam sajjad (as)) once said; do not look at the size of the sin, look at who you are disobeying

Fact is shaking hands with a non mahram is haraam

Also there is a Hadith from the Prophet (pbuh) however I am not sure if it is from sunni sources or shia or both but it says something along the lines of; it would be better for 70(?) nails to be drilled through my head(?) rather than touching a non mahram (something like that, I probably got it a bit wrong though)

Also one of our imams (as) said (i think imam ali (as)); That sin which you percieve to be small is actually big (something like that)

This means that the sins which we believe are small (such as touching a non mahram for a few seconds) is most likely a big sin, we just perceive it to be small because we don't believe that there is any harm in doing it.

Allah (swt) has put his law into place for a reason, it's not about being 'holier than thou' infact being 'holier than thou' is a good thing, as long as u practice what you preach then what is wrong with trying to be as pious as possible, sure we arent the Aimmah (as) but doesn't mean we can't strive to be like them.

Sorry if this post came across as I was attacking any of you, I wasn't, I was just stating my views on the matter

Edited by SD2

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