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In the Name of God بسم الله

Muawiyah Spoke Fondly Of Ali (ra) Not Cursing Him

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Nature of Relationship between Ahlebayt(ra) and Muawiya(ra)

Note: Part 1 is a must read before reading this part. Please read Part 1. And please read all the comments mentioned in this article.

Muawiya(ra) acknowledged the superiority of hz ali(ra) and his view towards Hassan(ra) and hussain(ra).

1. Al-Thahabi narrated in “Sayr A’alam Al-Nubala’a” from Ya’ali bin Ubayd from his father who says: (Abu Muslim Al-Khulani and some others went to Mu’awiyah and asked him: “Do you dispute Ali or are you equal to him? Mu’awiyah answered: “By Allah no. I know he is better than I am, and he has the right to rule, but do not you know that Uthman was killed as an innocent? And I am his cousin and the seeker of his revenge. Therefore go to Ali and tell him to send me Uthman’s murderers then I will obey him.” They went to Ali and talked to him, but Ali refused to hand in Uthman’s murderers to Mu’awiyah.) [ Sayr A’alam Al-Nubala’a, vol.3, p.140, the examiner of the book said that its narrators are trustworthy]

Comment: This was the true and real view of Muawiya(ra) regarding Ali(ra), which the shian e dajjal never try to bring up. Because it will uncover the false propagands against hz muawiya(ra) since the time of their Imams. Here we find that Muawiya(ra) considered ali(ra) better than him, because he clearly said that he was demanding Qisas for martydon of Uthman(ra), which was his right according to shariah. He even said that if Ali(ra) handovers the killers of Uthman(ra) he will obey him.

2. Muawiyah Radhi Allaahu Ta’ala ‘anh said: “Ali is better and more virtuous than me and I differ from him only in the matter of qisaas of Uthmaan (Radhi Allaahu Ta’ala ‘anh) and if he takes the qisaas of the blood of uthmaan I will be the first of the people of syria to make bayah to him” [al-Bidayatu wan Nihaayah page 129,259 vol 7]

Comment: We find a similar narration here, where Muawiya(ra) himself testifies that Ali(ra) was more virtues than him. And if Ali(ra) handovers the killers of Uthman(ra) he would be the first person to make Bayah to him from people of Syria.

3.

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Ibn Katheer said that: Abu Muslim Al-Khawalani and a group with him, entered on Mu’awiyah and said to him: “Are you competing with Ali, or [do you think that] you are like him?” So he replied: “By Allah, I know that he is better than me, and more virtuous ...”.[Al bidaya wal nihaya 132/8]

4.

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4. Hisham bin Ammar reports that Muawiyah said on the virtues of Ali “Even if Ali had decided to seclude himself in a cave, people would have still sought him out and brought him back to the public.[siyar A'lam an-Nabula', 5/147]

Comment: This shows that how much important was the presence of Ali(ra) in ummah in the sight of Muawiya(ra), because if Ali(ra) didn’t help people in solving fiqh issues then it would have been very problematic for people.(since he was the best living jurist at that time). This is even evident from Muawiya(ra) specifically asking people to ASK ALi(ra) to clear his doubts in fiqh matters.

5.

1893 – æÃäÈÃäÇ ÇÈä äÇÌíÉ ¡ ÃíÖÇ ¡ ÞÇá : ÍÏËäÇ ÍÓíä Èä ãåÏí ÇáÃÈáí ÞÇá : ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÒÇÞ ÞÇá : ÃäÈÃäÇ ãÚãÑ ¡ Úä ÇáÒåÑí ÞÇá : áãÇ ÞÊá Úáí Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå æÌÇÁ ÇáÍÓä Èä Úáí ÑÖí Çááå ÚäåãÇ Åáì ãÚÇæíÉ ÝÞÇá áå ãÚÇæíÉ : áæ áã íßä áß ÝÖá Úáì íÒíÏ ÅáÇ Ãä Ããß ÇãÑÃÉ ãä ÞÑíÔ æÃãå ÇãÑÃÉ ãä ßáÈ áßÇä áß Úáíå ÝÖá ¡ ÝßíÝ æÃãß ÝÇØãÉ ÈäÊ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã

5. 1893 From the way of Al-Zuhri, he said: When Ali ibn Abi Talib (Radiya Allah ‘Anh) was killed, Al Hasan ibn Ali (Radiya Allah ‘Anhuma) came to Mu’awiya. Mu’awiya said to him: If your only virtue over Yazeed was that your mother is a woman from Quraysh and his mother is a woman from [the tribe of] Kalb then that would have been a sufficient virtue for you over him, how then when your mother is Fatima daughter of the Messenger of Allah (Salah Allah ‘Alaihi wa Salam) [Al-Sharee'ah by Al-Ajurri, died in 360 AH]

Comment: Just see how Muawiyah(ra) respects and honors Hassan(ra). He himself proves how Hassan(ra) was superior to Yazeed. And Even declares that Fatima(ra) was superior to his wife.

6. Muawiya said to Yazeed: Do honor his (i.e Hussain’s) relation to the Prophet (s) because you should know that his father is better than your father and his mother is better than your mother. [shia book, Maqtal abi makhnaf p. 19.]

Comment: Here Hz muawiya(ra) himself testifies that Ali(ra) was better than Muawiya(ra) and Fatima(ra) was better than  wife of Muawiya(ra)

7

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7. Muawiya(ra) said to his son:“You know what relation Imâm Husayn ‘radiy-Allâhu ’anh’ is to the Messenger of Allah. He is a part from the beloved Prophet’s blessed body. He is an offspring from the flesh and blood of that most honourable person. I understand that the inhabitants of Iraq invite him to go there and be with them. But they will not help him; they will leave him alone. If he should fall into your hands, behave in appreciation of his value! Remember the closeness and affection of the Messenger of Allah ‘sall-Allâhu ’alaihi wa sallam’ to him! Do not get back at him for his behaviour! Mind you don’t break the substantial ties I have established between him and us! Be extra careful lest you should hurt or offend him!” This advice of Hadrat Mu’âwiya’s to (his son) Yazîd is written in shia books like bihar al anwar, etc).]

8.First from Tabari

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Ahmed said that Ali bin Juwairya bin Asma said that Bisr bin abi Artaa said bad things about Ali in Muwaiya’s presence while Zaid bin Umar bin Alkhattab was sitting so he got up with a stick and hit his head. Then Muwaiya said to Zaid: you came to a Sheikh from Quraish, master of the people of Syria and hit him?! Then he went to Bisr and said: you verbally abuse Ali and he is his grandfather, and the son of Farooq (Umar) is above the heads of the people. did you believe that he be patient with that?! Then he reconciled between them. And Muwaiya said: It’s not fitting that a fault be greater than my forgiveness or ignorance greater than my forebearance, or a shame which I do not conceal with my veil, or malice greater than my benevolence, and Muawiya also said: The most noble person is the generous one. And he also said: nothing is more loved by me than a plentiful spring in a desert land. And Amru bin al Aas said: nothing is more beloved to me than to spend a night newly married by one of the Arab families. Wirdan the servant of Amro said: Nothing is more loved by me than being kind to the brothers. Then Muwaiya said: I have more right in this than you. He said: Is there anything you’d like so I can serve you? [(At-Tabari Vol. 4 Pg 248) & (Ibn Atheer Vol 4 Pg 5)]

Comment: Muawiya(ra) scolded the person who abused Ali(ra) and neither did he encourage that person to do that.

 

This is affirmed by this fact, that hz muawiya(ra) used to ask hz ali(ra) questions.

1. muawatta Book 36, Number 36.19.18: Malik related to me from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al−Musayyab that a Syrian man called Ibn Khaybari found a man with his wife and killed him, or killed them both. Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan found it difficult to make a decision and he wrote to Abu Musa al−Ashari to ask Ali ibn Abi Talib for him about that. So Abu Musa asked Ali ibn Abi Talib and AIi said to him, “Is this thing in my land? I adjure you, you must tell me.” Abu Musa explained to him how Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan had written him to ask Ali about it. Ali said, “I am Abu Hasan. If he does not bring four witnesses, then let him be completely handed over,” (to the relatives of the murdered man).

Comments: This shows us the bonding of brotherhood in faith between Ali(ra) and Muawiya(ra) , because though they had differences in political issues, yet it didn’t stop Muawiya(ra) from asking hz ali(ra) a fiqhi question. Hz muawiya(ra) SPECIFICALLY SAID ABU MUSA TO ASK TO ALI(RA). Now had it been the conditions like the shian e dajjal often portray, then why would Muawiya(ra) ask question to Ali(ra), if he had hatred for him?  He  could have asked someone else for that  or could have sorted out the issue the way he wanted, who was there to stop him? Many of us might have experienced that, we often don’t ask for help, etc with people whom we hate, since our ego stops us from doing so. And yes there could be some situations that there is no other way expect to take help from our enemy(though even in those situations people avoid taking help from their enemies if that enemy of their is a staunch enemy whom they curse day and night), at that time people might take help, but just see here, was there no other way for Muawiya(ra)? He could have easily sorted that issue the way he wanted. Who was going to ask him? But see these great people, and their love for Islam and shariah. Could any true muslim bear enemity for such great people except the shian e dajjal?

 

What was the view of Ali(ra) regarding Muawiyah(ra)? And it also proves that Ali(ra) and Muawiya(ra) were both brothers in faith.

Many times Mu’awiyah emphasized that by saying: “I did not fight Ali but in the matter of Uthman.” As we have seen above. Ali(ra) also confirms this he said:

æóßóÇäó ÈóÏúÁõ ÃóãúÑöäóÇ ÃóäóøÇ ÇáúÊóÞóíúäóÇ æóÇáúÞóæúãõ ãöäú Ãóåúáö ÇáÔóøÇãö¡ æóÇáÙóøÇåöÑõ Ãóäóø ÑóÈóøäóÇ æóÇÍöÏñ (1) ¡ æóäóÈöíóøäóÇ æóÇÍöÏñ¡ æóÏóÚúæóÊóäóÇ Ýöí ÇáúÅööÓúáÇóãö æóÇÍöÏóÉñ¡ áÇó äóÓúÊóÒöíÏõåõãú (2) Ýöí ÇáúÅöíãóÇäö ÈÇááåö æóÇáÊóøÕúÏöíÞö ÈöÑóÓõæáöåö¡ æóáÇó íóÓúÊóÒöíÏõæäóäóÇ: ÇáúÃóãúÑõ æóÇÍöÏñ¡ ÅöáÇóø ãóÇ ÇÎúÊóáóÝúäóÇ Ýöíåö ãöäú Ïóãö ÚõËúãÇäó¡ æóäóÍúäõ ãöäúåõ ÈóÑóÇÁñ! ÝóÞõáúäóÇ: ÊóÚóÇáóæúÇ äõÏóÇæö ãóÇ áÇó íõÏúÑóßõ Çáúíóæúãó ÈöÅöØúÝóÇÁö ÇáäóøÇÆöÑóÉö (3) ¡ æóÊóÓúßöíäö ÇáúÚóÇãóøÉö¡ ÍóÊóøì íóÔúÊóÏóø ÇáúÃóãúÑõ æóíóÓúÊóÌúãöÚó¡ ÝóäóÞúæóì Úóáóì æóÖúÚö ÇáúÍóÞöø ãóæóÇÖöÚóåõ. ÝóÞóÇáõæÇ: Èóáú äõÏóÇæöíåö ÈöÇáúãõßóÇÈóÑóÉö (4) ! ÝóÃóÈóæúÇ ÍóÊóøì ÌóäóÍóÊö (5) ÇáúÍóÑúÈõ æóÑóßóÏóÊú (6) ¡ æóæóÞóÏóÊú (7) äöíÑóÇäõåóÇ æóÍóãöÔóÊú (8) . ÝóáóãóøÇ ÖóÑóøÓóÊúäóÇ (9) æóÅöíóøÇåõãú¡ æóæóÖóÚóÊú ãóÎóÇáöÈóåóÇ ÝöíäóÇ æóÝöíåöãú¡ ÃóÌóÇÈõæÇ ÚöäúÏó Ðáößó Åöáóì ÇáóøÐí ÏóÚóæúäóÇåõãú Åöáóíúåö¡ ÝóÃóÌóÈúäóÇåõãú Åöáóì ãóÇ ÏóÚóæúÇ¡ æóÓóÇÑóÚúäóÇåõãú (10) Åöáóì ãóÇ ØóáóÈõæÇ¡ ÍóÊóøì ÇÓúÊóÈóÇäóÊú Úóáóíúåöãõ ÇáúÍõÌóøÉõ¡ æóÇäúÞ óØóÚóÊú ãöäúåõãõ ÇáúãóÚúÐöÑóÉõ. Ýóãóäú Êóãóø Úóáóì Ðáößó ãöäúåõãú Ýóåõæó ÇáóøÐöí ÃóäúÞóÐóåõ Çááåõ ãöäó ÇáúåóáóßóÉö¡ æóãóäú áóÌóø æóÊóãóÇÏóì Ýóåõæó ÇáÑóøÇßöÓõ (11) ÇáóøÐöí ÑóÇäó (12) Çááåõ Úóáóì ÞóáúÈöåö¡ æóÕóÇÑóÊú ÏóÇÆöÑóÉõ ÇáÓóøæúÁö Úóáóì ÑóÃúÓöåö

1. “In the beginning of our matter, the people of Sham(Muawiya and his supporters) and us met. It is obvious that our God is one, our Prophet is one, and our call in Islam is one. We do not see ourselves more in faith in Allah or more in believing His messenger than them, nor they do. Our matter is one, except for our disagreement in Uthman’s blood, and we are innocent from his murder.“ [Nahjul Balagha, vol.3, p.648; letter 58]

Comment: Hence, Ali(ra) is confirming what Muawiya(ra) also said, that the conflict between him and Mu’awiyah(ra) is about the murder of Uthman, not for the sake of leadership or to take control of the Muslims. Moreover we find Ali(ra) confirmed that the beliefs  of both the groups was same. Which means that Ali(ra) considered Muawiya(ra) to be his brother in faith. we know that people of Shaam didn’t believe in divine Imamah of AliÚáíå ÇáÓáÇã. But Ali(ra) didn’t mention the greatest sin(in the sight of shian e dajjal) that Muawiya(ra) rejected the Imamah of Ali(ra). He didn’t mention that they differed in faith nor that Muawiya(ra) went against the Imam appointed by Allah, like the shian e dajjal always want to portray.

2. We have been with the Prophet in battles wherein those killed were fathers, sons, brothers and relations of one another. Nevertheless, every trouble and hardship just increased us in our belief, in our treading on the right path, in submission to (divine) command and in endurance of the pain of wounds.We now had to fight our brethren in Islam because of entry into Islam of misguidance, crookedness, doubts and (wrong) interpretation. However, if we find any way by which Allah may collect us together in our disorder and by which we may come near each other in whatever common remains between us we would accept it and would give up everything else.(Nahjul balagha sermon 121)

Comment: Here Hz ali(ra)  was displaying is displeasure in fighting his own muslims brothers, because of the misguidance that entered Islam, that was spread by shian e dajjal(saba’es). Since because of them Uthman(ra) was martyred and because of that the battle between two muslim brothers took place.

 

Another proof of this brotherhood:

Once when Ali(ra) and Muawiya(ra) were in opposition a huge Christian army was planning to attack on the easten provinces of Iran, which was under Ali’s(ra) rule and they wanted to take advantage of the disunity among the muslims. Ali(ra) was incapable of defending these places, which were targeted to come under attack by the Christians and if the Christians attacked, a large of part of Islamic territory would have been lost. The Christians were aware of the difficulties Ali(ra) was facing and therefore felt there would be no threat from Amir Muawiya(ra)’s side as the had been following the mutual opposition between Muawiya and Ali and their use of force against each other. They expected that Muawiya(ra) would like them to attack Ali(ra). However, as soon as Muawiya(ra) heard that news, he contrary to the expectations of the Christian emperor, wrote to the emperor, “You should not be deceived by our infighting, if you turn towards Ali(ra) the first chief who advances to punish you under Ali’s(ra) flag will be Muawiya”. The impact of that letter was far more than an army and the Chirstians gave up the idea. . ( History of Islam Vol 2 ,page 48-49 By Akbar Shah Najeebadi)

A similar report: The king of Byzantium had great hopes of attacking and defeating Mu’aawiyyah after  the latter having instilled fear in him and humiliating him, and routing his troops.  When the king of Byzantium saw that Mu’aawiyyah was preoccupied with fighting ‘Alee, he approached some cities (on the border) with a huge army, filled with hope of victory. But Mu’aawiyyah wrote to him saying, “By Allaah! If you do not stop and go back to your own land, O cursed one, I shall reconcile with my cousin and we will unite against you, and I shall certainly expel you from all of your land! I shall keep pursuing you, and the earth, vast as it is, will be striatened for you [at-Tawbah: 25].” At that the king was afraid, and he sent word seeking a peace treaty.”[al-Bidaayah wan-Nihaayah: 8/119]

Comment: Did you see how beautiful relationship did these two Sahaba shared. Muawiya(ra) wasn’t glad to find Ali(ra) in trouble, nor he tried to utilize that situation, like often enemies do. It is because Muawiya(ra) considered Ali(ra) his brother in faith, not his enemy and the only reason he fought was to demand Qisas of Uthman(ra). And for these reports a beautiful verse of Quran came into my mind. “Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves( 48:29)”

That’s why this was the view of Ahlebayt, for those who fought with them:

1. In Sunan Bayhiqi it is narrated that on the eve of the war of Jamal, Ali(ra) was asked about the opponents: “Are they Mushrikeen?” He replied:”They have run from shirk and come into Islaam” Then he was asked “Are they Munafiqeen?” He replied “Munafiqeen are those who don’t remember Allah, except a little (while the opponents do a lot of Zikr)” Then he was asked “Then what are they?” He replied:”They are our brothers who have rebelled from us” [sunun Bayhiqi - Dairat ul Ma'arif edition page 173 vol 8]

2.

æÚä íÒíÏ Èä ÇáÃÕã ÞÇá : áãÇ æÞÚ ÇáÕáÍ Èíä Úáí æãÚÇæíÉ ¡ ÎÑÌ Úáí ÝãÔì Ýí ÞÊáÇå ÝÞÇá : åÄáÇÁ Ýí ÇáÌäÉ Ëã ÎÑÌ Åáì ÞÊáì ãÚÇæíÉ ÝÞÇá : åÄáÇÁ Ýí ÇáÌäÉ ¡ æáíÕíÑ ÇáÃãÑ Åáí æÅáì ãÚÇæíÉ

2. Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates in his Musanaf, that after the treaty between Ali and Mu’awiya [May Allah be pleased with them], Ali walked between those who died from his party and saying: “Those are in Jannah”, then he walked to those side of those who died from the side of Mu’awiya and said: “And those are in Jannah [Musanaf ibn abi shaybah]

3.

Úä ÌÚÝÑ ÇáÕÇÏÞ Úä ÃÈíå ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã Ãä ÚáíÇ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã áã íßä íäÓÈ ÃÍÏÇð ãä Ãåá ÍÑÈÉ Åáì ÇáÔÑß æáÇ Åáì ÇáäÝÇÞ¡ æáßäå ßÇä íÞæá: åã ÅÎæÇääÇ ÈÛæÇ ÚáíäÇ

3. Jafar Sadiq narrates from his father (Baqir) that Ali never accused the ones with whom he fought of Shirk (i.e polytheism) or hypocrisy, rather he would say , they are our brothers who  rebelled against us. [(shia books) Wasail Shia, 15/83 , also Qurbul Asnad p. 45, Majleese reported in “Biharal anwar” 32/324]

Comment: These were the views of Ahlebayt regarding those who fought with them , they considered them muslims, unlike what the shian e dajjal want to portray,  Since you will find the shian e dajjal making takfeer of those who fought with Ahlebayt.

4. Sahi bukhari 4.823: Narrated Abu Bakra: Once the Prophet brought out Al−Hasan and took him up the pulpit along with him and said, “This son of mine is a Saiyid (i.e. chief) and I hope that Allah will help him bring about reconciliation between two Muslim groups.”

Comment: From this narration we find that the group of Ali(ra) as well as group of Muawiya(ra) were considered as Muslims. Prophet(saw) didn’t say just one of them will be muslim. But said both of the groups will be muslim. Now some of the notorious shian e dajjal might try to say that, the group of Muawiya(ra) was muslim but they were not momin(belivers), since muslim even encompasses hypocrites some times. To those shian e dajjal we want to say that, hypocrisy is something which is portraying the opposite which is in hearts. So when Muawiya(ra) fought Ali(ra) do you mean to say that he had love for him in his heart? which is opposite to his action? Secondly, if we read Islamic history we will find that there used to be hypocrites among the muslims as the quran says, but when they revealed their true faces and they joined the kuffar(disbelievers) during war, then you will never find that people still called them muslims. So when muawiya(ra) openly went against Ali(ra), yet prophet(Saw) said his group was Muslim, then it means that they all were believers(momineen). Unlike what shian e dajjal want to portray. And if shian e dajjal disagree with us, then we demand them to show us a single authentic narration where any hypocrite OPENLY went against prophet(Saw), and fought against him. Then even AFTER that prophet(Saw) called such a person Muslim. If you can’t then please stop fooling ignorant followers of yours.

5.

ÝáÞÏ ßäÇ ãÚ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì

Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÅä ÇáÞÊá áíÏæÑ Úáì ÇáÂÈÇÁ æÇáÇÈäÇÁ æÇáÇÎæÇä æÇáÞÑÇÈÇÊ ¡

ÝãÇ äÒÏÇÏ Úáì ßá ãÕíÈÉ æÔÏÉ ÅáÇ ÅíãÇäÇ ¡ æãÖíÇ Úáì ÇáÍÞ ¡ æÊÓáíãÇ

ááÇãÑ ¡ æÕÈÑÇ Úáì ãÖÖ ÇáÌÑÇÍ . æáßäÇ ÅäãÇ ÃÕÈÍäÇ äÞÇÊá ÅÎæÇääÇ

Ýí ÇáÇÓáÇã Úáì ãÇ ÏÎá Ýíå ãä ÇáÒíÛ æÇáÇÚæÌÇÌ æÇáÔÈåÉ æÇáÊÃæíá

5. Hz ali addressing his companions and his opponents said: We were with prophet(saw) , that time our fathers and sons were killed , our near one and brothers were killed ,but after every problem and calamity our eman used to get increase. We used to standstill on truth, We used to obey the commands, at times of difficulties we used to do sabr(patience). But now we are fighting our own muslim brothers.(nahjul balagha tahqeeq subhi saleh, page 179)

6.

æÇæÕíßã ÚÈÇÏ Çááå ÈÊÞæì Çááå¡ ÝÅäåÇ ÎíÑ ãÇ ÊæÇÕì Èå¡ æÎíÑ ÚæÇÞÈ ÇáÃãæÑ ÚäÏ Çááå¡ æÞÏ ÝÊÍ ÈÇÈ ÇáÍÑÈ Èíäßã æÈíä Ãåá ÇáÞÈáÉ

6. Hz ali said: O servants of Allah I suggest you of having taqwa.This is one of the best suggestion given to servants of Allah. With this you will achieve goodness and piousness. Between you and ahle qibla the door of battle have opened.(nahjul balagha tahqeeq subhi saleh, page 248, sermon 172)

Comment: similar explain as we find in last comment can be applied to these narrations of Nahjul balagha.

Shias shoud first decide that whether there Imams divinely appointed or not? Because if they were divinely appointed then who so ever fights with them,  should obviously declared as disbeliever(this has been done by many shia scholars). But if you say that they were muslims then it naturally exposes your home-made beliefs that your Imams weret divinely appointed from Allah.

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People lie. What did you want him to say? I am just fighting Ali for my own personal gain? Muawiya didn't even have a particularly close relationship with Uthman, and he used his death as a pretext. The real reason he fought Imam Ali (as) was because he was going to be removed from his post, and he was greedy for power. It's the same with Aisha. She said that someone should kill Uthman, and was happy as long as someone like Talha became Caliph, but then as soon as she found out it was Imam Ali (as) who was chosen, she suddenly cared about Uthman? Give me a break.

If Muawiya thought Imam Ali (as) was so great, then why got to war with him? Is this how murder trials are settled, by shedding the blood of Muslims, and rebelling against the Caliph of his time? The fact is Muawiya (la) became a kafir as soon as he took up arms against the rightful Imam of his time, and so did everyone else that fought against Imam Ali (as). You might want to say they repented or whatever, but even accepting that, Muawiya then repeated his crime by opposing Imam Hasan (as). So there is no doubt Muawiya (la) is going to burn in hell, along most of the rest of his accursed family.

Edited by Haider Husayn
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muawyah not only fought war with Ali but he also killed Malik al ashtar (the right hand of Ali) by poisoning him with honey , then he said " god has soldiers in honey" لله جنود من عسل

he killed mohamad bin aby bakr the right hand man of Ali and his governor over egypt and he put his body in a dead donkey and burnt it

He killed ammar bin yaser (the first adviser of imam Ali) in the war of Siffin

he killed imam hasan through one of his wives by poison

he killed aburrahman bin udais al balawy who is one of the people who gave bai3ah under the tree

he put yazeed and directly caused the killing of imam hussain after betraying the treaty that he had with imam hassan

also he killed hijr bin Adi for refusing to curse Ali

his love was so much for imam Ali that he killed all of Alis friends and supporters and government officials that Ali specifically chose

in arabic they say " some types of love actually kills" من الحب ما قتل

maybe muawyahs love for Ali was so extreme that he killed all his friends and tried to killl him too if he managed to get his hands on him !!!!

Edited by alimohamad40
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Muawiyah Spoke Fondly Of Ali (ra) Not Cursing Him

This is the biggest lie on Shiachat

Muawiyah (LA) not only fought Imam Ali (as), but he cursed Imam Ali (as) as well. Furthermore,he did force/make everybody to curse Ali (as). To prove it, we begin with

Sahih Muslim: Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas: Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa'd, and told him: "What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab (nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse Ali." Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32.

The Messenger of Allah said: "Whoever reviles/curses Ali, has reviled/cursed me" Sunni reference:- al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p121, who mentioned this tradition is Authentic.- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, p323- Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p594, Tradition #1011- Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p130- Mishkat al-Masabih, English version, Tradition #6092- Tarikh al-Khulafa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p173- and many others such as Tabarani, Abu Ya'la, etc.

The Messenger of Allah said: "Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of hypocrasy." ^^^^^^^^^ Sunni references:- Sahih Muslim, v1, p48;- Sahih Tirmidhi, v5, p643;- Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p142;- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal v1, pp 84,95,128- Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 1, p202- Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v4, p185- Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v14, p462

http://www.al-islam....hapter5a/1.html

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Much of what I wanted to say has already been expressed by the earlier posts in this thread, but you're shooting yourself in the foot if you use Nahjul Balaghah as a reference for proving a non-existent relationship between Ali (as) and Mu'awiyah (la). Mu'awiyah's army consisted of many muslims but it is a historical fact that he left Uthman's bloody shirt on his pulpit and lied to the people of Sham claiming that Ali (as) had killed Uthman, causing every bypasser of the pulpit to curse Ali. The people of Sham were muslims true, but do you even know that Mu'awiyah is NOT EVEN FROM AHLUL SHAM and that he was born and raised up in Mecca? The man was only put as governer of al Sham by Umar al-Khattab after the Levant was entirely under his dominion. There's even a letter in Nahjul Balagha where Ali explicitly states to Mu'awiyah that he never believed in the Islamic creed and still harbours animosity to Islam.

Did you also know Ali tried to resolve the case of Uthman's murderer by collecting the evidence and two witnesses as a proposal to Mu'awiyah? Yet mu'awiyah caused a major fitnah by adamantly pushing forward one of the bloodiest civil wars history has ever witnessed...and all over one man murdered? This is the attitude of the Jahiliyyah, he could have accepted Ali's proposal but he wanted to remain in his seat of power; afterall, actions speak louder than words and not only did he murder the sahaba of the Prophet but he also originated the Umayyad tradition of cursing Ali on the pulpit every Friday sermon.

If you want the references for what I said above please don't hesitate to ask.

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The people defeated in the Riddah wars are considered by Sunnis to be rebels, very evil people considered rightfully killed for having refused to pay Zakat to Abu Bakr's government. Yet Muavaih's rebellion is even greater than that of the losing side in the Riddah wars. He was a rebel against the legitimate muslim state, waged war against his khalifa for a lame reason and killed many many more people than those killed in the Riddah wars. Eventually he usurped the entire muslim state yet the Sunnis are still so goddamn apologetic about him.

And why did the call for Qasas of Usman end when Muaviah finally became the king? Why was it never pursued further?

Edited by JimJam
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Sahih Muslim: Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas: Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa'd, and told him: "What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab (nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse Ali." Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32.

Indeed the biggest lie on ShiaChat.

And there is this Hadith that is used by Shias:

When Muawiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan put al-Mughairah Ibn Shubah in charge of Kufah in Jumada 41 (September 2- October 30, 661), he summoned him. After praising and glorifying God, he said:

"Now then, indeed a forbearing person has been admonished in the past... The wise might do what you want without instruction. Although I have wanted to advise you about many things, I left them alone, trusting in your discernment of what pleases me, what helps my regime and what sets my subjects [raiyyah] on the right path. I would continue to advise you about a quality of yours- do not refrain from abusing Ali and criticizing him, not from asking God's mercy upon Uthman and His forgiveness for him. Continue to shame the companions of Ali, keep at a distance, and don't listen to them. Praise the faction of Uthman, bring them near, and listen to them."

Sunni reference: History of Tabari, English version, events of year 51 AH, Execution of Hujr Ibn Adi, v18, pp 122-123

AND In Tarikh Kamil Volume 3 page 234

The Sanad of the hadith I posted is as follows:

Hisham bin Muhammad - Abu Mikhnaf - Mujallid bin Said and Fudayl and Al Husayn Bin Uqbah

Regarding Abu Mikhnaf According to the scholars of Jarh wa T'adeel, he is not relaible.

Dhahabi said about him, " Abu Mikhnaf, a worthless reporter, not relied upon, Abu Hatim and others abandoned him."

Abu Hatim also said about Abu Mikhnaf, "Abdur Rahman said: 'I heared Yahya Bin Ma'in say, 'Abu Mikhnaf is not trustworthy'. Abdur Rahman also said, ' I heared my father say, "Abu Mikhnaf's narrations are abandoned" ( Kittab Al-Jarh Wa T'adeel V.7 p. 182)

As for:

Sahih Muslim: Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas: Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa'd, and told him: "What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab (nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse Ali." Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32.

This is a question, not a suggestion or compulsion.

And Muawiyah Radhi Allaahu Ta'ala 'anh said:

"Ali is better and more virtuous than me and I differ from him only in the

matter of qisaas of Uthmaan (Radhi Allaahu Ta'ala 'anh) and if he takes the

qisaas of the blood of uthmaan I will be the first of the people of syria to

make bayah to him"

[al-Bidayatu wan Nihaayah page 129,259 vol 7]

In Sunan Bayhiqi it is narrated that on the eve of the war of Jamal, Ali Radhi

Allaahu ta'ala 'anh was asked about the opponents:

"Are they Mushrikeen?"

He replied:

"They have run from shirk and come into Islaam"

Then he was asked "Are they Munafiqeen?"

He replied "Munafiqeen are those who don't remember Allah, except a little

(while the opponents do a lot of Zikr)"

Then he was asked "Then what are they?" He replied:"They are our brothers who

have rebelled from us"

[sunun Bayhiqi - Dairat ul Ma'arif edition page 173 vol 8]

Edited by afgnmuslim
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Muwaiyah did respect Imam Ali(a.s) and showed care for him, Here you go: It's from the Nahjul-Balagha :

Zirar bin Zamra Zibabi, known as Zirar Suda'i, was a companion of Imam Ali. When, after the martyrdom of Imam Ali, he went to Damascus, Muawiya called him and asked him to say something about Imam Ali. Zirar, knowing that Muawiya hated Imam Ali intensely tried to avoid this topic, but Muawiya forced him to speak. Thereupon, Zirar said: "O Amir, I had often seen Imam Ali in the depth of nights, when people were either sleeping or engrossed in amusements, he would be standing in the niche of the Masjid, with tears in his eyes and he would beseech Allah to help him maintain a pious, a virtuous and a noble character and to forsake the world. He would then address the world, saying 'O vicious world! Be away from me, why do you come in front of me like this ? Do you want to allure me ? Allah forbid that I should be allured and tempted by you and your pleasures. It is not possible. Go and try your allurements on somebody else. I do not desire to own you and do not want to have you. I have forsaken you thrice. It is like divorcing a woman thrice after which act she cannot be taken back as a wife. The life of pleasures that you offer is of a very little duration. There is no real importance in what you offer, the desire of holding you is an insult and a humiliation to sober minds. Sad is the plight of those who want to acquire you. They do not provide for the Hereafter. They have to pass through a long journey over a very difficult road towards a sat destination'. Zirar says that when he stopped, there were tears in the eyes of Muawiya who said, 'May peace of Allah be upon Abul Hasan Ali bin Abi Talib, he was undoubtedly like that. Now tell me, Zirar! How do you feel his separa- tion?' Zirar replied, "My sorrow and grief is like that of woman whose only child has been murdered in her lap". With this remark Zirar walked out of the court of Muawiya and left the city.

Translated by Askari Jafri

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Salaam to all,

To those brothers who give too much weightage to history books, here are some references from shia books about Muawiyah:

Mulla Baqir Majlisi writes in Jalalul Uyun that Muawiyah willed to Yazid at the time of his death:

1) "But as for Imam Husain (s)! You know his relation and nearness to the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.). He is a part of the Prophet. I know that the people of Iraq will call him and would not help him. If you get control over him, recognize his rights. Remember his rank of nearness to the Prophet. Do not make him recompense for his actions and do not break off the relations I have strengthened with him during this time. Beware! Do not give him any kind of trouble."

2) It is narrated in Nasikhut Tawarikh that Muawiyah made the following will to Yazid: O son! Do not be greedy. Beware, when you come to Allah you should not have the blood of Husain bin Ali upon your neck. Otherwise, you will not be at ease and remain under chastisement forever.

3) Muawiya said to Yazeed: Do honor his (i.e Hussain's) relation to the Prophet (s) because you should know that his father is better than your father and his mother is better than your mother. [shia book, Maqtal abi makhnaf p. 19.]

Those who say that Muawiyah cursed Ali (ra) read the following:

Ahmed said that Ali bin Juwairya bin Asma said that Bisr bin abi Artaa said bad things about Ali in Muwaiya's presence while Zaid bin Umar bin Alkhattab was sitting so he got up with a stick and hit his head. Then Muwaiya said to Zaid: you came to a Sheikh from Quraish, master of the people of Syria and hit him?! Then he went to Bisr and said: you verbally abuse Ali and he is his grandfather, and the son of Farooq (Umar) is above the heads of the people, did you believe that he be patient with that?! Then he reconciled between them. [(At-Tabari Vol. 4 Pg 248) & (Ibn Atheer Vol 4 Pg 5)]

Thus we can see that Muawiya scolded the person who abused Ali(ra) and neither did he encourage that person to do that.

Al-Zuhri said: When Ali ibn Abi Talib (Radiya Allah 'Anh) was killed, Al Hasan ibn Ali (Radiya Allah 'Anhuma) came to Mu'awiya. Mu'awiya said to him: If your only virtue over Yazeed was that your mother is a woman from Quraysh and his mother is a woman from [the tribe of] Kalb then that would have been a sufficient virtue for you over him, how then when your mother is Fatima daughter of the Messenger of Allah (Salah Allah 'Alaihi wa Salam) [Al-Sharee'ah by Al-Ajurri]

Ibn Katheer said that: Abu Muslim Al-Khawalani and a group with him, entered on Mu'awiyah and said to him: "Are you competing with Ali, or [do you think that] you are like him?" So he replied: "By Allah, I know that he is better than me, and more virtuous ...".[Al bidaya wal nihaya 132/8]

This is what Imam Hasan had to say about Muawiyah:

In 'Maqtal Hussain' and 'Asadul Ghaba' - Imam Hasan (as) said:

"Verily, the matter in which I and Muawiya disputed, either this is my right, and I left this in Muawiyah's favour in order to protect the Ummah, or this is the right of a person who is more deserving for this post, hence I left this on account of that person".

This shows that Imam Hasan (ra) did consider Muawiyah suitable for Khilafah.

Other Scholars' opinions about Muawiyah :

Sheikh Waliyullah Muhaddith Dehlwi (rahmatullahi alayh) says in Izaalatul Khifaa:

"Know that Muawiyyah Bin Sufyaan (radhiallahu anhuma) was a Sahaabi of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). In the general group of the Sahaabah , he held a distinguished position and rank. He is a Sahaabi of outstanding virtue and excellence. Beware! Never revile him. Never commit the Haraam act of abusing him."

Bearing testimony to the rank of Hadhrat Muawiyyah (radhiallahu anhu), Hadhrat Ali (radhiallahu anhu) says: "O People! Do not revile the reign of Muawiyyah. I swear by Allah! When he lives no longer, anarchy will spread wildly on earth." [izaalatul Khifaa]

SO NOW IT SHOULD BE CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT HISTORY BOOKS ARE FULL OF CONTRADICTORY NARRATIONS AND CANNOT BE THE SOURCE OF ACCUSING OR CURSING ANYONE.

Also keep in mind these irrefutable facts:

Among the greatest excellences of Ameer Muawiyyah is the fact that he was one of Rasulullah's (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) scribes who wrote the Wahi of the Qur`aan under the instructions of Nabi-e-Kareem (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) which makes him trustworthy beyond doubt.

Ibn Hajar Asqalani clearly says in his book 'Taqrib al Tahzib' (Vol2 P537)

Muawiyah ibn Abi Sufyan … Embraced Islam before the conquest (of Makkah) and he would scribe the revelation.

Imam Dhahabi says in his book 'Tarikh Islam, Vol. 2, p. 309′

It is authentically reported from Ibn Abbas that he said "I was playing when the Prophet called upon me and said to me 'Go and call Muawiyah' and he was a scribe of revelation"

Imam Dhahabi mentioned this narration in Siyyar alam al nubla also.

Following are the Sunni books in which it is clearly stated that Muawiyah was a scribe of revelation.

1. Jawami al Sirah, Ibn Hazm

2. Tarikh Baghdad, AbuBakr bin Khatib Baghdadi

3. Sirah Al Halabiyah, Ali ibn Burhan ud din al Halabi

4. Al bidaya wa al nihaya, Ibn Kathir

5. Tatheer al janan, Ahmad ibn Hajr Haithmi

6. Al Nahiya, Shahab ud din Qastalani

7. Tarikh Madinah, Ibn Asakir

8. Al Ikmal fi asma al Rijal, Khatib Tibrizi

It has also been mentioned by the Shia Scholar al Taqtaqi

9. Al Fakhri , Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Tabatabai al Taqtaqi al Rafidhi

Edited by Truthseeker786
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Here is an irrefutable fact for you: Muawiya (la) rebelled against two righteous Caliphs, who were two of the people the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) loved the most in the world. He also was responsible for the shedding of innocent Muslim blood. This makes Muawiya (la) a kafir without a shadow of a doubt.

Wahhabis claim that Imam Husayn (as) had no right to rebel against Yazid (la), yet it is fine for Muawiya (la) to rebel against both Imam Ali (as) and Imam Hasan (as). Could they make their hatred for the Ahlulbayt (as) any more obvious?

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Indeed the biggest lie on ShiaChat.

And there is this Hadith that is used by Shias:

The Sanad of the hadith I posted is as follows:

Hisham bin Muhammad - Abu Mikhnaf - Mujallid bin Said and Fudayl and Al Husayn Bin Uqbah

Regarding Abu Mikhnaf According to the scholars of Jarh wa T'adeel, he is not relaible.

Dhahabi said about him, " Abu Mikhnaf, a worthless reporter, not relied upon, Abu Hatim and others abandoned him."

Abu Hatim also said about Abu Mikhnaf, "Abdur Rahman said: 'I heared Yahya Bin Ma'in say, 'Abu Mikhnaf is not trustworthy'. Abdur Rahman also said, ' I heared my father say, "Abu Mikhnaf's narrations are abandoned" ( Kittab Al-Jarh Wa T'adeel V.7 p. 182)

As for:

This is a question, not a suggestion or compulsion.

All sunni sources. and more Sunni sources that Mawiya LA was cursed by prophet (pbuh) that his belly never be fulfilled and Wahabis consider it is as a blessing.

That's why keeping fat bellies is a Sunnah of Mawiya (LA) and kept by most Wahabi Mullahs.

but what about this that the party which killed Amar yasir (ra) will it be in hell or heaven as mentioned in your Sahih?

was that not a direct curse on Mawiya (LA) who kiled Ammar Yasir (ra) who was fighting for Imam Ali (as) in Siffin against Mawiya (LA)?

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^Its all because he won. If he had lost no one would remember Muaviah like they dont remember the losing side of the Riddah wars. They simply follow the victor. They have always followed the victor.

Yeah, they only care about wordly power and acheivements. This is why they also defend Khalid ibn Walid (la).

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All sunni sources. and more Sunni sources that Mawiya LA was cursed by prophet (pbuh) that his belly never be fulfilled and Wahabis consider it is as a blessing.

Let me get to your full-bellies allegation before the Hadith. One time I was sitting with my two Iranian friends, both Shia Muslims, one of whom is religious. The other one is just whatever. He considers himself Muslim, eats pork, can care less about Shia or Sunni but technically he is Shia. Now I do not pin his shortcomings on Shias but one time while we were eating, he mentioned how Iran ranks highest in underage prostitution and mullahs who like to sleep with boys. I was offended; Iran may do or say whatever but there are Muslims that live there, Shia and Sunni. So I asked him to stop saying things like that. His reply was that he knows more about Iran since he is Iranian and been there. The other brother, who is religious, was listening quietly. I asked the brother making charges, "could it be that the statistics lump mutah as prostitution and those who have gone through it as prostitutes?" He looked at the other Iranian brother and asked, "what is mutah? Is he referring to sigha?" I was like, "yes, some call it sigha in Iran." He was like, "yeah, same thing, that thing is so popular among mullahs there, I can't even begin to tell you." And our religious brother did not even offer a refutation knowing about mutah and the reality on ground.

Why am I telling you all this? To show you worse things, far worse than fat bellies, are happening under the name of Islam. Yet, yet, I will never pin that on Shiaism. I believe every human is answerable for his or her own actions. And it is a known fact that mutah was banned on the Day of Khaybar and Shia books make mention of it:

The Shia themselves have a hadith narrated by Imam Ali (ra) which states that the Prophet made Mut'ah haram on the day of Khayber (Book of Tahdeeb: vol. 7, pg. 251, rewaya 10). The author states that Ali lied for the purposes of Taqiya. In Book of Istebsar: vol. 3, pg. 142, rewaya 5, there is a declaration by Ali that Mut'ah is haram.

According to Sheikh Tusi both Hadiths are Saheeh[Authentic] and even branded by Allama Kasahani in Rajal Kashi as Mutawatar[Highly Authentic]pp234.V3.

Earlier, someone said that the hadith was weak, in another topic. I just got my hands on how Sheikh Tusi grades them. Now what?

Another hadith narrated from Imam Jafar Ul Sadaq[A.S] Narrated by A'maar: Abu Abdullah[imam Jafar Sadaq]said to me and to Suliman Bin Khaled: "I made Mut'ah Haram on you".AL Kafi Pp 467.V5.Wiasal Shia Pp22.V21.

Shiekh Saduq classified it as Saheeh[AUTHENTIC] in his Minhaj Saduq Pp304.V7. Sheikh Sadra Hassan[With Good Chain of Narration] in his Commentry on AL Kafi.Pp461.V4.

But let us get back to the hadith which you mentioned but did not quote about Muawiyah's belly.

It is recorded in the Hadith of the Ahlus Sunnah that the Prophet said of Muawiyyah, “May Allah not fill his belly.” You mention this and then claim that the hadith thereby condemns Muawiyyah. What you, and other Shias, fail to say is that there is an Arabic saying “may Allah not fill your belly” which means “may your sustenance be without end” (i.e. its end never come). In the Semitic cultures, this is a commonly used colloquialism: when someone is about to die, people say that so-and-so has reached his fill of food meaning their sustenance has come to an end.

The analogy of this is a man telling his son to “break a leg” before a soccer match. If we were to literally translate “break a leg” into Chinese (Mandarin), it would lose its intended meaning. A Chinese reader would think that this father actually wants his son to physically get hurt! If this same Chinese reader asked the Chinese police to arrest this man for child abuse, they would probably do so. But if this Chinese reader went to English-speaking police, they would probably laugh at him for misinterpreting English colloquialism.

And so we laugh at you :D

Edited by afgnmuslim
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Let me get to your full-bellies allegation before the Hadith. One time I was sitting with my two Iranian friends, both Shia Muslims, one of whom is religious. The other one is just whatever. He considers himself Muslim, eats pork, can care less about Shia or Sunni but technically he is Shia. Now I do not pin his shortcomings on Shias but one time while we were eating, he mentioned how Iran ranks highest in underage prostitution and mullahs who like to sleep with boys. I was offended; Iran may do or say whatever but there are Muslims that live there, Shia and Sunni. So I asked him to stop saying things like that. His reply was that he knows more about Iran since he is Iranian and been there. The other brother, who is religious, was listening quietly. I asked the brother making charges, "could it be that the statistics lump mutah as prostitution and those who have gone through it as prostitutes?" He looked at the other Iranian brother and asked, "what is mutah? Is he referring to sigha?" I was like, "yes, some call it sigha in Iran." He was like, "yeah, same thing, that thing is so popular among mullahs there, I can't even begin to tell you." And our religious brother did not even offer a refutation knowing about mutah and the reality on ground.

Why am I telling you all this? To show you worse things, far worse than fat bellies, are happening under the name of Islam. Yet, yet, I will never pin that on Shiaism. I believe every human is answerable for his or her own actions. And it is a known fact that mutah was banned on the Day of Khaybar and Shia books make mention of it:

Earlier, someone said that the hadith was weak, in another topic. I just got my hands on how Sheikh Tusi grades them. Now what?

But let us get back to the hadith which you mentioned but did not quote about Muawiyah's belly.

It is recorded in the Hadith of the Ahlus Sunnah that the Prophet said of Muawiyyah, “May Allah not fill his belly.” You mention this and then claim that the hadith thereby condemns Muawiyyah. What you, and other Shias, fail to say is that there is an Arabic saying “may Allah not fill your belly” which means “may your sustenance be without end” (i.e. its end never come). In the Semitic cultures, this is a commonly used colloquialism: when someone is about to die, people say that so-and-so has reached his fill of food meaning their sustenance has come to an end.

The analogy of this is a man telling his son to “break a leg” before a soccer match. If we were to literally translate “break a leg” into Chinese (Mandarin), it would lose its intended meaning. A Chinese reader would think that this father actually wants his son to physically get hurt! If this same Chinese reader asked the Chinese police to arrest this man for child abuse, they would probably do so. But if this Chinese reader went to English-speaking police, they would probably laugh at him for misinterpreting English colloquialism.

And so we laugh at you :D

Nice story. Moving on .... Muwawiya (la) still fought against Imam Ali (as) and got Imam Hassan (as) poisoned. Or let me guess you wanna justify that with some more rubbish?

The hadith says The Prophet (pbuh) said; Ammar (ra) will be killed by infidels.... Muwawiya (la) said Imam Ali (as) is the infidel for he brought him to war ... The reply was well then you are saying the Prophet (pbuh) killed Hamza (ra) for he took him to war.

Muwawiya (la) is an infidel may he rot in Hell with the rest of the tyrants and oppressors insha'Allah.

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Its not that muawiya (la) didnt recognize the superiority of Imam Ali (as), but his lust for power and his hatred towards aal Muhammad overtook him. Btw, if he admonishes yazeed (la) for going against Imam Hussain (as) , then why did he bring him (la) to power?

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Nature of Relationship between Ahlebayt(ra) and Muawiya(ra)

Bannable offense. Give me admin privileges and I can take care of it.

Cut and paste threads also need to be targeted more forcefully. They degrade the forum significantly.

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Bannable offense. Give me admin privileges and I can take care of it.

Cut and paste threads also need to be targeted more forcefully. They degrade the forum significantly.

cut and paste is okay as long as it is directly answering the questions and staying relevant but i realized when afganmuslim is saying things its never an answer to the questions but its always like some one talking to himself

maybe i can excuse some of that behavior because too many of us throw questions at him in many of the threads so his automatic defense reaction is to throw back questions and statements and conclusions,,,,

maybe if less people throw questions at him he can put his act together and stay relevant but now he is everywhere thats why it seems like he is just using a program that copies and pastes

Edited by alimohamad40
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Straight up nonsense.

The entire article is based on the premise that Ali (as) was party to this crime by giving refuge to the murderer or dishonest in his ruling. Imagine a caliph like Ali (as) doing such a deed. Just read how far these enemies of Islam are willing to go in order to save their beloved Mauwiyah

Therefore go to Ali and tell him to send me Uthman's murderers then I will obey him." They went to Ali and talked to him, but Ali refused to hand in Uthman's murderers to Mu'awiyah.) [ Sayr A'alam Al-Nubala'a, vol.3, p.140, the examiner of the book said that its narrators are trustworthy]

Comment: This was the true and real view of Muawiya(ra) regarding Ali(ra), which the shian e dajjal never try to bring up. Because it will uncover the false propagands against hz muawiya(ra) since the time of their Imams. Here we find that Muawiya(ra) considered ali(ra) better than him, because he clearly said that he was demanding Qisas for martydon of Uthman(ra), which was his right according to shariah. He even said that if Ali(ra) handovers the killers of Uthman(ra) he will obey him.

So the author and Mauwiyah both know Shariah law better then Ali (as) never mind the fact that the author is further trying to convince readers that Ali (as) gave fiqhi advice to Mauwiyah himself (strange logic)

Comment: We find a similar narration here, where Muawiya(ra) himself testifies that Ali(ra) was more virtues than him. And if Ali(ra) handovers the killers of Uthman(ra) he would be the first person to make Bayah to him from people of Syria.

Many times Mu'awiyah emphasized that by saying: "I did not fight Ali but in the matter of Uthman." As we have seen above. Ali(ra) also confirms this he said:

There you have it.......An insulting article written by defenders of baatil against haq. Against the very cousin of our Prophet (Saww)

That's why this was the view of Ahlebayt, for those who fought with them:

1. In Sunan Bayhiqi it is narrated that on the eve of the war of Jamal, Ali(ra) was asked about the opponents: "Are they Mushrikeen?" He replied:"They have run from shirk and come into Islaam" Then he was asked "Are they Munafiqeen?" He replied "Munafiqeen are those who don't remember Allah, except a little (while the opponents do a lot of Zikr)" Then he was asked "Then what are they?" He replied:"They are our brothers who have rebelled from us" [sunun Bayhiqi - Dairat ul Ma'arif edition page 173 vol 8]

2. Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah narrates in his Musanaf, that after the treaty between Ali and Mu'awiya [May Allah be pleased with them], Ali walked between those who died from his party and saying: "Those are in Jannah", then he walked to those side of those who died from the side of Mu'awiya and said: "And those are in Jannah [Musanaf ibn abi shaybah]

3. Jafar Sadiq narrates from his father (Baqir) that Ali never accused the ones with whom he fought of Shirk (i.e polytheism) or hypocrisy, rather he would say , they are our brothers who rebelled against us. [(shia books) Wasail Shia, 15/83 , also Qurbul Asnad p. 45, Majleese reported in "Biharal anwar" 32/324]

Comment: These were the views of Ahlebayt regarding those who fought with them , they considered them muslims, unlike what the shian e dajjal want to portray, Since you will find the shian e dajjal making takfeer of those who fought with Ahlebayt.

Comment: Shia Shaitaan AKA Salafis... Please go read your mufti fatwa on rebellion. Just so we are all clear on this, Nothing in Najhal Balagha support your argument and i mean Nothing. Get an education and read it again.

Shias shoud first decide that whether there Imams divinely appointed or not? Because if they were divinely appointed then who so ever fights with them, should obviously declared as disbeliever(this has been done by many shia scholars). But if you say that they were muslims then it naturally exposes your home-made beliefs that your Imams weret divinely appointed from Allah.

Their last final attempt to paint everything in black and white. Do you really think we dont see through your transparent agenda?

Dont know who the author is nor do i care. The facts are that after the death of Uthman there was a commotion and nobody at that time knew anything about the killer. Secondly, In Ahlesunnah books its states Ali (as) told both his son to act as deputies outside Uthman's house and watch out for his safety. So I think its pretty apparent that Mauwiyah used this as a pretext to wage a war against Ali (as) for the good ol caliphate.

Shia Shaitain - Instead of wasting your time learning ilm rijjal get some insight on politics and diplomacy. This alone will answer all the other mumbo jumbo you posted.

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I see people providing references and others bringing in their own speculations and accusations. Allah-u Akbar!

"Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it knocks out its brain, and behold, falsehood doth perish! Ah! woe be to you for the (false) things ye ascribe (to Us)." (21:19)

And regarding the Companions (ra), I will let Allah (swt) speak:

"Muhammad (SAW) is the Messenger of Allāh, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and falling down prostrate (in prayer), seeking Bounty from Allāh and (His) Good Pleasure. The mark of them (i.e. of their Faith) is on their faces (foreheads) from the traces of (their) prostration (during prayers). This is their description in the Taurāt (Torah). But their description in the Injeel (Gospel) is like a (sown) seed which sends forth its shoot, then makes it strong, it then becomes thick, and it stands straight on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the disbelievers with them. Allāh has promised those among them who believe (i.e. all those who follow Islāmic Monotheism, the religion of Prophet Muhammad SAW till the Day of Resurrection) and do righteous good deeds, forgiveness and a mighty reward (i.e. Paradise). "

Those who are enraged by the Sahabas (ra) are disbelievers. Can any other authority, infallible Imam or flying carpet, put it any clearer than that or override what Allah (swt) says?

Takbeer!!

Edited by afgnmuslim
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I see a person running away from the argument. What is your opinion of Muawiya fighting Imam Ali (as)? Did he have the right to do so? Why did he not submit to the authority of Imam Hasan (as)?

I have given you proof and when I did, you say that that's my misunderstanding or my "opinion." And now you want to know my opinion? SubhanAllah, you do not even see how badly your confusion has gotten to you. In this forum, the Shias are in majority but if you read every Sunni post and compare it to Shia posts, without the noise from unnecessary cheerleaders, who equate quantity with quality, you will see how badly you are doing in defending your beliefs.

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I have given you proof and when I did, you say that that's my misunderstanding or my "opinion." And now you want to know my opinion? SubhanAllah, you do not even see how badly your confusion has gotten to you. In this forum, the Shias are in majority but if you read every Sunni post and compare it to Shia posts, without the noise from unnecessary cheerleaders, who equate quantity with quality, you will see how badly you are doing in defending your beliefs.

I see you don't want to answer the question.

Look, you're 'proof' has been dealt with. Muawiya said one thing and did the other. You just want to focus on what he said, and not what he did. As usual, you completely ignore whatever counterarguments are presented.

Sahih Muslim: Narrated Sa'd Ibn Abi Waqqas: Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, give order to Sa'd, and told him: "What prevents you that you are refraining from cursing Abu Turab (nickname of Ali)?" Sa'd replied: "Don't you remember that the Prophet said three things about (the virtue of) Ali? So I will never curse Ali." Sunni reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of Virtues of Companions, Section of Virtues of Ali, Arabic, v4, p1871, Tradition #32.

This is a question, not a suggestion or compulsion.

LOL. You really love playing dumb don't you? History records that Muawiya used to order the cursing of Imam Ali (as), and this was an Ummayad tradition that continued until the time of Umar ibn Abdulaziz, and you see nothing significant in Muawiya asking Sa'd why he doesn't curse Imam Ali (as). You think he just randomly went up to him and said '"By the way, how come you don't curse Ali ibn Abu Talib?". Why not ask him why he doesn't curse the Prophet (pbuh) while he's at it? I mean, he was just asking, right?

This is why it's so hard to get through to people like you. You just refuse to see what is staring you in the face.

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You think he just randomly went up to him and said '"By the way, how come you don't curse Ali ibn Abu Talib?". Why not ask him why he doesn't curse the Prophet (pbuh) while he's at it? I mean, he was just asking, right?

For that one hadith, see how many other hadiths we have provided that show Muawiyah's respect for Ali (ra). And we are taking that hadith, about questioning, on face-value, weak or authentic. As for you all, I present something and every one has a story to tell "have you read Al-Kafi?" "you misunderstood the hadith!" "show me a scanned image!" "it is weak!"

Go back and read, since you itch for battles, how Muawiyah said that if not for the issue of the killers of Uthman (ra), he (Muawiyah) would gladly give the pledge to Ali (ra).

Excuses excuses!

And Muawiyah Radhi Allaahu Ta'ala 'anh said:

"Ali is better and more virtuous than me and I differ from him only in the

matter of qisaas of Uthmaan (Radhi Allaahu Ta'ala 'anh) and if he takes the

qisaas of the blood of uthmaan I will be the first of the people of syria to

make bayah to him"

[al-Bidayatu wan Nihaayah page 129,259 vol 7]

Edited by afgnmuslim
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Oh man I really wish I wasn't reading this thread at the end of the night. All I can say is afgnmuslim and truthseeker read my first post on page 1 and request whatever references you want and i'll provide them for you tomorrow as it's 1:38am and i'm gonna be an absolute zombie tomorrow lol.

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For that one hadith, see how many other hadiths we have provided that show Muawiyah's respect for Ali (ra). And we are taking that hadith, about questioning, on face-value, weak or authentic. As for you all, I present something and every one has a story to tell "have you read Al-Kafi?" "you misunderstood the hadith!" "show me a scanned image!" "it is weak!"

For the last time, he was LYING. Do you believe Muawiya never lied?

Tell me, if Muawiya was so great, then why was he not considered one of the Rightly guided Caliphs? He was a companion, a writer of revelation, a great military leader, had a better sense of justice than Imam Ali (as), etc. So why is he outside that group of four?

Go back and read, since you itch for battles, how Muawiyah said that if not for the issue of the killers of Uthman (ra), he (Muawiyah) would gladly give the pledge to Ali (ra).

So why didn't he give the pledge of allegiance to Imam Hasan (as)? And are you saying that people have to right to rebel against a rightfully guided Caliph because they aren't happy with how he is dealing with a criminal justice matter? Are you saying Imam Ali (as) was protecting the killers of Uthman? If not, then why did Muawiya fight him?

And Muawiyah Radhi Allaahu Ta'ala 'anh said:

"Ali is better and more virtuous than me and I differ from him only in the

matter of qisaas of Uthmaan (Radhi Allaahu Ta'ala 'anh) and if he takes the

qisaas of the blood of uthmaan I will be the first of the people of syria to

make bayah to him"

[al-Bidayatu wan Nihaayah page 129,259 vol 7]

Muawiya lanatullah alayh was a liar.

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So why is he outside that group of four?

Let him speak as to why he is outside that group:

"Ali is better and more virtuous than me and I differ from him only in the

matter of qisaas of Uthmaan (Radhi Allaahu Ta'ala 'anh) and if he takes the

qisaas of the blood of uthmaan I will be the first of the people of syria to

make bayah to him."

So why didn't he give the pledge of allegiance to Imam Hasan (as)?

A scholar once pointed out that the history of Islam, after the passing away of Rasulullah (saw), was inspiring until the fitnah of Khilaafat came about. When Abu Bakr and Umar (r-a) were Caliphs, no one mentioned this issue and Islam flourished. As soon as people started claiming that Ali (r-a) was the legitimate heir of the Caliphate, this mess began.

As to why Muawiyah chose to not give Hassan (r-a) the pledge, I do not know. But I know of this prophecy:

Sayyidina Imam al-Hasan (may Allah be pleased with him) would reconcile the Muslims

Narrated Sayyidina Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him): I heard the Prophet (may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) talking at the pulpit while Al-Hasan (may Allah be pleased with him) was sitting beside him and he (i.e. the Prophet, may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him) was once looking at the people and at another time Al-Hasan (may Allah be pleased with him), and saying, "This son of mine is a Sayyid (i.e. chief) and perhaps Allah will bring about an agreement between two sects of Muslims through him." (Bukhari)

Are you saying Imam Ali (as) was protecting the killers of Uthman? If not, then why did Muawiya fight him?

Ali (r-a) was not protecting the killers of Uthman (r-a) and that is why I do not agree with Muawiyah's haste in the matter.

Muawiya lanatullah alayh was a liar.

He wanted qisaas for Uthman (r-a) and fought for it. Even if he was wrong in his judgment, I say I side with Ali (r-a) but I do not claim that Muawiyah was totally wrong, but even if his judgment was wrong, or harmful to the ummah, he (Muawiyah) still went forth with it. That shows his steadfastness and if anything, it rules out your allegation of him being a "liar."

There's even a letter in Nahjul Balagha where Ali explicitly states to Mu'awiyah that he never believed in the Islamic creed and still harbours animosity to Islam.

If I were to take Nahjul Balagha as authentic, and not present it only to convince the Shias, and for the Shias to take Bukhari, Muslim etc as authentic, then we all would have lived in harmony. I quote Nahjul Balagha, Al-Kafi, Wasael Shia etc because you believe in them, not I.

Would you at least stop hating Muawiyah if I present to you his merits from our texts? Of course not!

Did you also know Ali tried to resolve the case of Uthman's murderer by collecting the evidence and two witnesses as a proposal to Mu'awiyah? Yet mu'awiyah caused a major fitnah by adamantly pushing forward one of the bloodiest civil wars history has ever witnessed...and all over one man murdered?

Which is why I said that I do not agree with Muawiyah being hasty in this matter and that I side with Ali (r-a). But it was not just "one man" murdered? That man was a Sahaba and the only man to have become the son-in-law of the Prophet (saw) twice. If Ali (r-a) was the Prophet's (saw) son-in-law and cousin, then Uthman (r-a) was his son-in-law twice over. He was no ordinary man. I do not side with Muawiyah, but I understand his stubborn attitude in this matter.

If you want the references for what I said above please don't hesitate to ask.

This, I believe, we have addressed already!

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brother do you even know whats the definition of a companion?

do you even know what you are arguing anymore?

muawyah spoke good of Ali okay so what does that prove? does that make him innocent from the bloods that he spillt?

all it does it prove he was a hypocrite, "I hear your words its some thing and I see your acts its another"

it makes him more evil it means he actually Knew that Ali is good, at least if he was ignorant it would make him a better person.

Edited by alimohamad40
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