How Can Shia Sunni Unity Be Achieved

[ambrosechappel]

Shia Sunni differences are cause of disunity in Ummah. What suggestions can we give to our Muslim brethren and Ulema/Ayatullahs to remove differences amongst the two major groups of Islam.

[Kamranistan]

In my opinion - http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234992486-unity/page__hl__unity__fromsearch__1

[shia.lol]

Alittle mutah mixed with alot taqiyyah, some grave worship and hardcore back beating and I mean hardcore, shia shirk here and there, bit more mutah.pray on small stones and Chuck in abit of Saba teaching then will come unity (under taqiyyah so can covert them sunni to worship the gravre with us)

[ambrosechappel]

Can we make some changes in beliefs and practices of Shia and Sunni schools of thought themselves. Can we add or delete certain things to improve and remove certain characteristics of each sect in order to make each others teachings more acceptable for the other parties. Tolerance is a solution but all know that not all people of each party can display equal level of tolerance. Additionally, disunity is beneficial for people from each sect who earn their bread and butter from religion. Some of them are indoctrinated since their childhood days to have firm belief that their sect is the only one on the true path. They are the ones who can actually bring about the element of tolerance effectively in the character of their sect. Will they be willing to play that role.

How about making a suggestion to the leaders to try to remove the differences by altering the doctrines themselves? Such a change will expedite the process of creating tolerance between the two groups. What can be these changes?

[Replicant]

Unity can't be achieved but toleration can.

[Kamranistan]

Unity can't be achieved but toleration can.

+infinity and beyond

[Aly ReZa]

As of my personal opinion

We can never be united at all.

The thing which hasn't been achieved from 1400 how it can be achived now

Thousands times better people then us has tried all this thing but atlast its zero.

[ambrosechappel]

Why does a man of today have to follow the path of the people of the past. Obviously Shia and Sunnism was not taught by the Holy Prophet(s). Both these schools were formed as a result of the events of future after the demise of the Holy Prophet(s). Perhaps these schools of thought were suitable for the people of those times because of the prevailing circumstances. Now those days are over. Shia and Sunniism can be changed for a person of today and the future. Unity can be achieved.

Even if you think that's not possible, just think hypothetically as if you are a member of committee which has been given a task to give suggestions as to what elements can be added or subtracted from principles of each sect which can enhance tolerance and achieve unity.

Just a food for thought.

Edited September 20, 2011 by ambrosechappel

[Kamranistan]

Why does a man of today have to follow the path of the people of the past. Obviously Shia and Sunnism was not taught by the Holy Prophet(s). Both these schools were formed as a result of the events of future after the demise of the Holy Prophet(s). Perhaps these schools of thought were suitable for the people of those times because of the prevailing circumstances. Now those days are over. Shia and Sunniism can be changed for a person of today and the future. Unity can be achieved.

Even if you think that's not possible, just think hypothetically as if you are a member of committee which has been given a task to give suggestions as to what elements can be added or subtracted from principles of each sect which can enhance tolerance and achieve unity.

Just a food for thought.

What do you mean by 'add and subtract from principles'.. We search for the truth, you can't compromise on that.

[Replicant]

Why does a man of today have to follow the path of the people of the past. Obviously Shia and Sunnism was not taught by the Holy Prophet(s). Both these schools were formed as a result of the events of future after the demise of the Holy Prophet(s). Perhaps these schools of thought were suitable for the people of those times because of the prevailing circumstances. Now those days are over. Shia and Sunniism can be changed for a person of today and the future. Unity can be achieved.

Even if you think that's not possible, just think hypothetically as if you are a member of committee which has been given a task to give suggestions as to what elements can be added or subtracted from principles of each sect which can enhance tolerance and achieve unity.

Just a food for thought.

It's not that, it's the fact that they love the people we hate and hate the people we love. That damage us irrepairable but we just need to learn to get on with our own religion and let others get on with theirs.

[Aly ReZa]

We have to follow the people of the past because they were thousands time better then us.

What you are trying to do they have already done it but remained unsuccessful.

As I told you in my previous post that we can never be united

There are some elements which put down a major difference and crate a partiotion in our way so for that to you your relegion and to me my relegion.

[ambrosechappel]

Brother Kamran Syed and Aly Raza, One must agree that some of the principles were based on the events that took place at that time. Had things not happened the way they did, may be no sects had been formed in Islam. Or if they had, the differences would have been of some other nature depending upon what could have happened instead of what did happen during those days.

People had to improvise, they had to adjust their religion based on what was happening in their surroundings. That played a big role in causing the schism. That was a time when things were happening. Now they are not. How about, in order to bring unity, we subtract unacceptable things from teachings of each sect or at least give them less importance(if it is more acceptable a term for you at this stage) and try to form a united Islam.

Edited September 20, 2011 by ambrosechappel

[Replicant]

Brother Kamran Syed and Aly Raza, One must agree that some of the principles were based on the events that took place at that time. Had things not happened the way they did, may be no sects had been formed in Islam. Or if they had, the differences would have been of some other nature depending upon what could have happened instead of what did happen during those days.

People had to improvise, they had to adjust their religion based on what was happening in their surroundings. That played a big role in causing the schism. That was a time when things were happening. Now they are not. How about, in order to bring unity, we subtract unacceptable things from teachings of each sect or at least give them less importance(if it is more acceptable a term for you at this stage) and try to form a united Islam.

Sunnis believe they are following the truth.

Shias believe we are following the truth.

If we believe our respected sects are the truth, then there can be no subtraction. Otherwise, you'll be taking away elements of truth from your beliefs.

[Aly ReZa]

You told that now Thing are not happening around so we shall be united

Don't you see that the bloody enemies of shiasm is killing shias around the world.

Don't you see the news

Haven't you heard about all this.

From which ever relegion that enemy belong to they might be sunni wahabi or whatever.

What are they doing

Can't you see

There are many enemies of shias around the world

So if you say that what ever happened it was the past

So what's it now going on ?

[ambrosechappel]

Brother Replicant, as I said Shia and Sunni faiths were based on events following the demise of Holy Prophet(s). Although each sect thinks they are fighting for the cause of upholding the teachings of the Holy Prophet(s) and to a certain extent they are both right. But for sure not all aspects of teachings of both parties are 100% correct. Or to be less severe 100% immutable.

Why don't we give it a try? Just hypothetically.

Brother Ali Reza, In order to abolish the hatred you are talking about, tolerance has to be increased. In order to increase tolerance, I am giving the formula of making amendments.

Edited September 20, 2011 by ambrosechappel

[Aly ReZa]

Why every time we people have to tolerate all this.

Whatever you are telling can never be done.

We can never be united

There and end number of differences in our relegion

Its not possible

[ambrosechappel]

Do any brothers have any ingenious ideas? Brainstorming.... I think it will start from elimination of things that are unacceptable for each other. We may make a list of such things first. Enumerate the biggest differences in the list and then find ways to solve them.

[Shia_Debater]

(salam)

1) Abu Bakr and Umar and Uthman usurped the rights of Imam Ali (as)

2) Abu Bakr stole fadak from Lady Fatimah (as)

3) Abu Bakr and Co. are destined for hell-fire

4) Muwawiya (la) is a bad person.

5) Khalid ibn al-walid helped Abu Bakr to take the right of Imam Ali (as)

6) Imam Ali (as) and the other 11 Imams (as) are appointed by Allah (swt) and have authority over all the believers

7) It is correct to prostrate on turbah/mohr/clay and it is an innovation to prostrate on carpet.

8) Food does not become halal by saying bismillah over it and then eating it

9) Only a few of the companions remained truthful to Imam Ali (as) and they are the good companions

10) At ghadeer khumm the Prophet (pbuh) told everyone that Imam Ali (as) is their mawla (master)

11) The calamity of Thursday was when Umar said the Prophet (pbuh) is ill and doesn't know what hes saying (nauthobillah) as to prevent him from writing down that Imam Ali (as) should be successor after his death.

Here are a few ... The list goes on ...

(wasalam)

[El Cid]

If Muslims and Hindus can be united for a cause, then ofcourse Sunni and Shi'a can too. Solution: Tolerate eachother and don't use religion at all during planning.

[power]

ambrosechappel, are you a Quranist?

[Shia_Debater]

If Muslims and Hindus can be united for a cause, then ofcourse Sunni and Shi'a can too. Solution: Tolerate eachother and don't use religion at all during planning.

United for a cause yes i.e. lebanon .. from what I understand ambrosechapel is saying United as in religion wise.

[theTRUEislam]

Alittle mutah mixed with alot taqiyyah, some grave worship and hardcore back beating and I mean hardcore, shia shirk here and there, bit more mutah.pray on small stones and Chuck in abit of Saba teaching then will come unity (under taqiyyah so can covert them sunni to worship the gravre with us)

LOOOOL THIS GUY IS FUNNYYYYYYY LOOOOL

[Replicant]

LOOOOL THIS GUY IS FUNNYYYYYYY LOOOOL

LOOOOOOOOOOOOO - No.

[Praetorius]

LOOOOL THIS GUY IS FUNNYYYYYYY LOOOOL

Bombed any innocent people yet? Come back when you're done doing so. Thanks.

To the OP: As soon as Sunnis/Wahabbis stop bombing our Shrines and Mosques, we'll be happy to lend you our hand in friendship ^_^

Edited September 21, 2011 by Legio Invicta

[Kamranistan]

Brother Replicant, as I said Shia and Sunni faiths were based on events following the demise of Holy Prophet(s). Although each sect thinks they are fighting for the cause of upholding the teachings of the Holy Prophet(s) and to a certain extent they are both right. But for sure not all aspects of teachings of both parties are 100% correct. Or to be less severe 100% immutable.

Why don't we give it a try? Just hypothetically.

Brother Ali Reza, In order to abolish the hatred you are talking about, tolerance has to be increased. In order to increase tolerance, I am giving the formula of making amendments.

Its either you've not read history or you sit on the fence, everyone's right, yipee!

After the demise of our prophet (pbuh) as you keep mentioning, things happened. Events happened against what the prophet (pbuh) said, people got greedy. You're telling us to disregard the wilayah of ali (as)? Thats like saying to sunni's disregard the caliphate of abu bakr.. And thats what has to happen for total unity.

[SlaveOfAllah14]

Look bro, when they call us mushriks, kafir, and non muslims do u think that this will ever cause unity? But we shias call them as brothers. So I would think that it is their fault!

[133ali]

<p>

</p>

<p>Bombed any innocent people yet? Come back when you're done doing so. Thanks.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>To the OP: As soon as Sunnis/Wahabbis stop bombing our Shrines and Mosques, we'll be happy to lend you our hand in friendship <img alt="^_^" class="bbc_emoticon" src="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/happy.png" /></p>

<p>

</p>

<p><img src="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/bismillah.gif" /></p>

<p><img src="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/salam.gif" /></p>

<p> </p>

<p>Brother, We Shias can start by stopping giving lanats on the first 3 Caliphs. We can always say lanat on all the enemies of Mohammed <img src="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/pbuh.gif" /> Va Aale Mohammed<img src="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/pbuh.gif" /> . Cursing this way, it will include all the enemies; past, present, and future. Our Sunni Brothers are not well versed in the history of our Imams, and have been brought up according to their beliefs. We cannot expect them to accept our views just like that, they will only be on the defensive, and do something which will make things worse. There is a verse in the Holy Quran: " Do not revile (or insult) others' gods, they may turn and revile your God unknowingly."( This is a general translation of the verse, those on this forum who are more knowledgeable may please give a better translation)</p>

<p> </p>

<p>By the way, it will surprise many of you, that in India, there are places where the Aashura juloos along with Tazias are taken out as a combined juloos of Sunnis and Shias. The Sunnis have been cooperating with us very much during Moharram.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Ali</p>

[ambrosechappel]

Brother 133ali, Excellent suggestion. That's exactly going to be the first point in bringing about this change.

Tabarra can be stopped by Shia brothers, at least in case of eminent Sahaba like the first 3 Caliphs and others like wives of Holy Prophet(s), Badari Sahaba etc.

Tabarra should either be completely abolished or practiced against people like killers of Karbala or by using names of people because in this way it will become more difficult to keep in hearts the names of those who will be granted exemption as per above according to the new principle.

It can also be changed to duas like, 'May all curse anyone who intentionally harmed Islam, Sahaba, and Ahlelbayt' This can be a common dua for all united Muslim, no longer Shia and Sunni Muslims.

In return, Sunnis will also have to show a response. What about giving less importance to or completely deleting the names of post- Fatah Mecca muslims, or Umayyads(except of course people like the 3rd Caliph) from list of Sahabas? And treating them like ordinary beings( Don't degrade them but don't respect them too much either)

Edited September 21, 2011 by ambrosechappel

[Aly ReZa]

<p></p>

<p><img src="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/bismillah.gif" /></p>

<p><img src="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/salam.gif" /></p>

<p> </p>

<p>Brother, We Shias can start by stopping giving lanats on the first 3 Caliphs. We can always say lanat on all the enemies of Mohammed <img src="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/pbuh.gif" /> Va Aale Mohammed<img src="http://www.shiachat.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/pbuh.gif" /> . Cursing this way, it will include all the enemies; past, present, and future. Our Sunni Brothers are not well versed in the history of our Imams, and have been brought up according to their beliefs. We cannot expect them to accept our views just like that, they will only be on the defensive, and do something which will make things worse. There is a verse in the Holy Quran: " Do not revile (or insult) others' gods, they may turn and revile your God unknowingly."( This is a general translation of the verse, those on this forum who are more knowledgeable may please give a better translation)</p>

<p> </p>

<p>By the way, it will surprise many of you, that in India, there are places where the Aashura juloos along with Tazias are taken out as a combined juloos of Sunnis and Shias. The Sunnis have been cooperating with us very much during Moharram.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Ali</p>

>By the way, it will surprise many of you, that in India, there are places where the Aashura juloos along with Tazias are taken out as a combined juloos of Sunnis and Shias. The Sunnis have been cooperating with us very much during Moharram.

Salam bro I am from india only wil you tell me where in india all this happen.

I will tell you the shia sunni history of muharram later on

But plz let me know this.

Why don't you reply mine legio invicta shia_debater and habib karimi post.

Even we are also there in discussion mahn.

Try to answer of above postes.

Try to get with the shia_debater list.

Give your opinion on that.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

there is zero unity between haqq and baatil.

we are with haqq, they are with the baatil.

the only "unity" is the unity under the banner of wilayah, and we havent even achieved that yet, lets unify amongst ourselves before sunnis.

[ambrosechappel]

Brother Ali Reza,

No Muslim should call each other Kafirs. No one is allowed to kill anyone. There is no question about both these points. We are talking about how to achieve unity in adjusting some parts of both these religions. It's not time to be pessimistic. We are talking about bringing about a change. How can that be achieved. Think ahead, don't just look behind. Although do cherish the memory of your past.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Brother Ali Reza,

No Muslim should call each other Kafirs. No one is allowed to kill anyone. There is no question about both these points. We are talking about how to achieve unity in adjusting some parts of both these religions. It's not time to be pessimistic. We are talking about bringing about a change. How can that be achieved. Think ahead, don't just look behind. Although do cherish the memory of your past.

is unity with non shias part of our faith?

[S.hassan]

Anything and everything other than the 12 Imams (as) is Shirk, and unity is not possible with Mushrikeen.

Edited September 21, 2011 by S.hassan

[Aly ReZa]

What are the changes you want us to bring.

We should the lover of our enemies?

Never we can never do that.

Innocent people all over the world is being killed why?

Because their shia

Shia of ali

They are on the right path and because of that they only have to suffer.

What you are trying to do is useless.

If you think that I am wrong let's other people post their views and see what is the outcome.

[Kamranistan]

As Replicant stated, tolerance is it.