Scientific Mistake In Quran?

[Muhibbe_Ahlebait]

Salam everyone!

The community here is great. I recently joined ShiaChat and I'm happy I did.

I'm having a debate with a non-muslim. I'm telling him that the QURAN contains many scientific facts which are being discovered recently. Now who could have mentioned those facts in the Quran 1400 years back? But that guy said to me:

"Then we can also see the next sentence in Quran after your supposed unknowable scientific insight.

1)“And the earth We have spread out, and excellent is the preparer.”(51:48)

How do you reconcile this with the knowledge that earth actually kinda clumped together. Earth is more a round loaf of Bread than a pancake or pizza.

Or the next one

2)“And of all things We created two mates; perhaps you will remember.”(51:49)

Yet another clear failure."

So can someone please explain to me why does Quran say "And the earth We have spread out". And as for the second example I don't quite get it why is he calling it a failure. Please answer urgently. Thankyou. Wassalam!!

Edited September 19, 2011 by Muhibbe_Ahlebait

[JimJam]

^You need to look at plate tectonics and seafloor spreading and continent drift and the growth of continental margins due to erosion of highlands and deposition of sediment in the sea.

Of the second he probably has in mind asexual or uni-sexual creatures

[Muhibbe_Ahlebait]

^You need to look at plate tectonics and seafloor spreading and continent drift and the growth of continental margins due to erosion of highlands and deposition of sediment in the sea.

Of the second he probably has in mind asexual or uni-sexual creatures

Thankyou for your response. :D So what do I say to him about the second one. And I found this off the internet

Earth has been spread out

The Qur’an says in several verses that the earth has been spread out. The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles.

"And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 51, Verse 48

Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse:

"Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse. And the mountains as pegs?" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 78, Verse 6-7

None of these verses of the Qur’an contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Qur’an says:

"O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me –(And Me alone)!" The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 29, Verse 56

Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.

Is this a valid proof?

Edited September 19, 2011 by Muhibbe_Ahlebait

[JimJam]

The Quran is not a science manual. Unless you don't yourself have scientific knowledge stop treating it like it is. I'd advise you to brush uo on your own general knowledge and stop getting into debates unprepared.

And almost all higher lifeforms reproduce sexually i.e in pairs

Edited September 19, 2011 by JimJam

[Muhibbe_Ahlebait]

Ok. Thankyou. :)

Edited September 19, 2011 by Muhibbe_Ahlebait

[elite]

Salam everyone!

The community here is great. I recently joined ShiaChat and I'm happy I did.

I'm having a debate with a non-muslim. I'm telling him that the QURAN contains many scientific facts which are being discovered recently. Now who could have mentioned those facts in the Quran 1400 years back? But that guy said to me:

"Then we can also see the next sentence in Quran after your supposed unknowable scientific insight.

1)“And the earth We have spread out, and excellent is the preparer.”(51:48)

How do you reconcile this with the knowledge that earth actually kinda clumped together. Earth is more a round loaf of Bread than a pancake or pizza.

Or the next one

2)“And of all things We created two mates; perhaps you will remember.”(51:49)

Yet another clear failure."

So can someone please explain to me why does Quran say "And the earth We have spread out". And as for the second example I don't quite get it why is he calling it a failure. Please answer urgently. Thankyou. Wassalam!!

(salam)

[Shakir 25:59] Who created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six periods, and He is firmly established on the throne of authority; the Beneficent Allah, so ask respecting it one aware.

http://www.al-islam.org/nahj/

This sermons were delivered by H.Ali(A.S.)

part of sermon-1

The Creation of the Universe

He initiated creation most initially and commenced it originally, without undergoing reflection, without making use of any experiment, without innovating any movement, and without experiencing any aspiration of mind. He allotted all things their times, put together their variations gave them their properties, and determined their features knowing them before creating them, realising fully their limits and confines and appreciating their propensities and intricacies.

When Almighty created the openings of atmosphere, expanse of firmament and strata of winds, He flowed into it water whose waves were stormy and whose surges leapt one over the other. He loaded it on dashing wind and breaking typhoons, ordered them to shed it back (as rain), gave the wind control over the vigour of the rain, and acquainted it with its limitations. The wind blew under it while water flowed furiously over it.

Then Almighty created forth wind and made its movement sterile, perpetuated its position, intensified its motion and spread it far and wide. Then He ordered the wind to raise up deep waters and to intensify the waves of the oceans. So the wind churned it like the churning of curd and pushed it fiercely into the firmament throwing its front position on the rear and the stationary on the flowing till its level was raised and the surface was full of foam. Then Almighty raised the foam on to the open wind and vast firmament and made therefrom the seven skies and made the lower one as a stationary surge and the upper one as protective ceiling and a high edifice without any pole to support it or nail to hold it together. Then He decorated them with stars and the light of meteors and hung in it the shining sun and effulgent moon under the revolving sky, moving ceiling and rotating firmament.

Part of sermon-91

A part of the same sermon, in description

of earth and its spreading on water

Allah spread the earth on stormy and tumultuous waves and the depths of swollen seas, where waves clashed with each other and high surges leapt over one another. They emitted foam like the he-camel at the time of sexual excitement. So the tumult of the stormy water was subdued by the weight of the earth, when the earth pressed it with its chest its shooting agitation eased, and when the earth rolled on it with its shoulder bones the water meekly submitted. Thus after the tumult of its surges it became tame and overpowered, and an obedient prisoner of the shackles of disgrace, while the earth spread itself and became solid in the stormy depth of this water. (In this way) the earth put an end to the pride, self conceit, high position and superiority of the water, and muzzled the intrepidity of its flow. Consequently it stopped after its stormy flow and settled down after its tumult.

When the excitement of water subsided under the earth's sides and under the weight of the high and lofty mountains placed on its shoulders, Allah flowed springs of water from its high tops and distributed them through plains and low places and moderated their movement by fixed rocks and high mountain tops. Then its trembling came to a standstill because of the penetration of mountains in (various) parts of its surface and their being fixed in its deep areas, and their standing on its plains. Then Allah created vastness between the earth and firmament, and provided blowing wind for its inhabitants. Then He directed its inhabitants to spread all over its convenient places. Thereafter He did not leave alone the barren tracts of the earth where high portions lacked in water-springs and where rivers could not find their way, but created floating clouds which enliven the unproductive areas and grow vegetation.

He made a big cloud by collecting together small clouds and when water collected in it and lightning began to flash on its sides and the flash continued under the white clouds as well as the heavy ones He sent it raining heavily. The cloud was hanging towards the earth and southerly winds were squeezing it into shedding its water like a she-camel bending down for milking. When the cloud prostrated itself on the ground and delivered all the water it carried on itself Allah grew vegetation on the plain earth and herbage on dry mountains. As a result, the earth felt pleased at being decorated with its gardens and wondered at her dress of soft vegetation and the ornaments of its blossoms. Allah made all this the means of sustenance for the people and feed for the beasts. He has opened up highways in its expanse and has established minarets (of guidance) for those who tread on its highways.

Now here we compare Nahjul Balaghah with quran.

Nahjul Balagah: Then Almighty raised the foam on to the open wind and vast firmament.

[shakir 79:28] He raised high its height, then put it into a right good state.

Nahjul Balagah: And made therefrom the seven skies

[Shakir 2:29] He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth, and He directed Himself to the heaven, so He made them complete seven heavens, and He knows all things.

Nahjul Balagah: Then He decorated them with stars and the light of meteors and hung in it the shining sun and effulgent moon under the revolving sky, moving ceiling and rotating firmament.

[Shakir 10:5] He it is Who made the sun a shining brightness and the moon a light, and ordained for it mansions that you might know the computation of years and the reckoning. Allah did not create it but with truth; He makes the signs manifest for a people who

[Shakir 37:6] Surely We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars,

Nahjul Balagah: Allah spread the earth on stormy and tumultuous waves and the depths of swollen seas

[Shakir 79:30] And the earth, He expanded it after that.

Nahjul Balagah: When the excitement of water subsided under the earth's sides and under the

weight of the high and lofty mountains placed on its shoulders

[Shakir 41:10] And He made in it mountains above its surface, and He blessed therein and made therein its foods, in four periods: alike for the seekers.

Nahjul Balagah: When the cloud prostrated itself on the ground and delivered all the water it carried on itself Allah grew vegetation on the plain earth and herbage on dry mountains

Nahjul Balagah: Allah made all this the means of sustenance for the people and feed for the beasts

[Shakir 2:29] He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth, and He directed Himself to the heaven, so He made them complete seven heavens, and He knows all things.

[Shakir 80:24] Then let man look to his food,

[Shakir 80:25] That We pour down the water, pouring (it) down in abundance,

[Shakir 80:26] Then We cleave the earth, cleaving (it) asunder,

[Shakir 80:27] Then We cause to grow therein the grain,

[Shakir 80:28] And grapes and clover,

[Shakir 80:29] And the olive and the palm,

[Shakir 80:30] And thick gardens,

[Shakir 80:31] And fruits and herbage

[Shakir 80:32] A provision for you and for your cattle.

Edited September 20, 2011 by elite

[Pascal]

And almost all higher lifeforms reproduce sexually i.e in pairs

Just because they're more complex(depends which sense you mean) life forms doesn't mean they're any less important or any less right or wrong though. For example a lot of human diseases are caused by organisms that reproduce asexually ect. Yeast, bacteria used to ferment ethanol, cheese ect.

I also really agree with your view. No need to be fundamentalist and use the quran as a science book. The quran takes care of your religion and the science books take care of your science. There doesn't need to be conflict, unlike some people think.

The quran couldn't outright talk about science that wasn't invented yet, it was revealed at a certain time and its my personal view some of the things said are more appropriate for that time than now (not all though. i hold skepticism in the view that everything ever said in the quran is the best thing for all times, ever. You can read more about what i wrote about this here - )

I found this on google, may help - http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27anic_Claim_of_Everything_Created_in_Pairs

[iSilurian]

^You need to look at plate tectonics and seafloor spreading and continent drift and the growth of continental margins due to erosion of highlands and deposition of sediment in the sea.

Thats still a bit subjective. Just as you could say the sea floor spreads, i could respond by saying the mountains smash together. This whole topic is dependent upon subjectivity. People should not try to combine science with the Quran, its just silly and you always come out without a real argument.

[JimJam]

^The 'earth', that part where people actually live like the river valleys and coastal areas and such were 'spread out' in a way.

Edited September 22, 2011 by JimJam

[iSilurian]

^The 'earth', that part where people actually live like the river valleys and coastal areas and such were 'spread out' in a way.

It could be argued that many things are "spread out" in a way. my bed sheets are spread out. the objects in my house are spread out. houses in the community are spread out. communities are spread out over the state. states spread out over the country, countries spread out around the world. plates are spread out and spreading, space is spreading, the sun is spreading, the distance between us and the moon is spreading, galaxies are spreading and on and on and on.

The point is, people can believe anything they want about such a broad statement. Ultimately its meaningless in any real discussion.

[Pascal]

Yeah it's pretty flimsy, it could be a poetic statement or a statement of truth. No one knows. At this point we're arguing over semantics and linguistics, not to mention translations. I can be critical and i think all works should be read critically but I'm also fair, I don't think this is a legitimate criticism of the quran.

[iSilurian]

Yeah it's pretty flimsy, it could be a poetic statement or a statement of truth. No one knows. At this point we're arguing over semantics and linguistics, not to mention translations. I can be critical and i think all works should be read critically but I'm also fair, I don't think this is a legitimate criticism of the quran.

It seems to be more of an argument against the "flimsy" arguments provided by muslims, as opposed to being an argument provided independently against the Quran.

[Ruq]

Can you not spread something over a ball?

[mehdi soldier]

Does the Quran say the earth is flat?

Shape of Earth in Quran

Quran and modern Science Conflict or Concillation

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B723DCB24143BF1A

[mehdi soldier]

as for the issue of all things being created in pairs,well even organisms that reproduce from asexual reproduction have their process which involves two opposite pairs ("sperm and egg cells") that join together.and even our chromosomes are in pairs.being in pairs does not have to do with the male and females sexual organs when you examine the verse.so they do still have characteristics of male and female.

so indeed the Quran is miraculous because there were some ways of reproduction that have only being explained recently.

Edited September 23, 2011 by mehdi soldier