Where Was Imam Ali (as) When....

[Al-Hadi]

(salam)

today I was asked

"at the time when they slammed the door on Bibi Fatima (as) where was Imam Ali (as)? Surely he wouldnt have just let his wife protect the door and the house?"

I didnt want to give an answer in case it was wrong but can anyone help me out here?

any help would be appreciated.

(salam)

[Shia_Debater]

(salam)

Watch this video from 3:30 ..

The guy says that Imam Ali (as) was about to kill an unbeliever in battle, just before he killed him the unbeliever spat in Imam Ali's (as) face. Imam Ali (as) didn't kill him because it would have been out of his own anger and not for the sake of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

This is most likely the same reason why he didn't kill those who slammed the door on Bibi Fatimah (as) .. he wouldn't have been doing it for the sake of Allah (swt) .. so he let Allah (swt) deal with them.

If I am wrong then someone else please correct me.

(wasalam)

[Al-Hadi]

(salam)

Watch this video from 3:30 ..

The guy says that Imam Ali (as) was about to kill an unbeliever in battle, just before he killed him the unbeliever spat in Imam Ali's (as) face. Imam Ali (as) didn't kill him because it would have been out of his own anger and not for the sake of Allah سبحانه وتعالى.

This is most likely the same reason why he didn't kill those who slammed the door on Bibi Fatimah (as) .. he wouldn't have been doing it for the sake of Allah (swt) .. so he let Allah (swt) deal with them.

If I am wrong then someone else please correct me.

(wasalam)

yeah but they were unrightfully taking the caliphate..so ultimately it wouldve been for the sake of god (swt) right?

and it still doesnt answer why he let bib fatima (as) protect the house...

i dont doubt them..there must be an answer for this im just trying to find out what it is :)

thanks anyway bro :D

[Shia_Debater]

(salam)

If Imam Ali (as) decided to kill those responsible for taking the caliphate because of them taking the caliphate it would have disrupted the ummah and more bad than good would have came out of it.

From what I know, Ali (as) had made a promise to the Prophet (pbuh) that he will not unsheathe his sword, no matter what they do after the Prophet's (pbuh) demise. He will maintain unity in the Ummah, and not fight for his right.

http://www.shiachat....bibi-fatima-as/

And if Imam Ali (as) had killed those responsible for slamming the door on Bibi Fatimah (as) then most likely the Ummah would have divided and the basics of the religion would have been destroyed

The Prophet's (pbuh) decision could have many reasons (hidden and apparent). ...

.... Another one is, so that the Ummah does not divide, and the very basics of religion are not destroyed.

http://www.shiachat....bibi-fatima-as/

(wasalam)

Edited September 18, 2011 by Shia_Debater

[Rasul]

Surely he wouldnt have just let his wife protect the door and the house?

(salam)

Salam!

I don't think Fatima (as) went to protect the door; ( or she went out) I dont think that they can prove that.

She (as) could be out in her house yard and when they come she (as) told them to go from there; so they attacked the door -and slammed the door on Fatima (as)

[Al-Hadi]

(salam)

If Imam Ali (as) decided to kill those responsible for taking the caliphate because of them taking the caliphate it would have disrupted the ummah and more bad than good would have came out of it.

And if Imam Ali (as) had killed those responsible for slamming the door on Bibi Fatimah (as) then most likely the Ummah would have divided and the basics of the religion would have been destroyed

(wasalam)

its not the killing, its more why he didnt protect the house...i.e just gone out

Salam!

I don't think Fatima (as) went to protect the door; ( or she went out) I dont think that they can prove that.

She (as) could be out in her house yard and when they come she (as) told them to go from there; so they attacked the door -and slammed the door on Fatima (as)

im pretty sure she (sa) was inside.. and then she said dont come in and they slammed it...

[Shia_Debater]

its not the killing, its more why he didnt protect the house...i.e just gone out

im pretty sure she (sa) was inside.. and then she said dont come in and they slammed it...

hmm .. I dunno .. insha'Allah someone else has the answer :D

[ktmnabi]

it never happened - shias made this up to increase hatred for the companions so people may not follow islam. rather they follow supposed imams from ahulbayt (who actually lived their lives as mainstream muslims)

shias say they have secret narrations from them, shias say all the narrations in agreement with sunni islam are taqiyah said in public but in secret they bore hatred.

i as a sunni cannot allow you to malign the image of Ali RA like this, implying cowardice on his part or a direct order from Allah SWT to allow falsehood. both ofthese possible shia explainations are just conjecture they make to continue their rebellion against true islam - which is with following RasulAllah SAW and unity of the muslimeen

[Al-Hadi]

it never happened - shias made this up to increase hatred for the companions so people may not follow islam. rather they follow supposed imams from ahulbayt (who actually lived their lives as mainstream muslims)

shias say they have secret narrations from them, shias say all the narrations in agreement with sunni islam are taqiyah said in public but in secret they bore hatred.

i as a sunni cannot allow you to malign the image of Ali RA like this, implying cowardice on his part or a direct order from Allah SWT to allow falsehood. both ofthese possible shia explainations are just conjecture they make to continue their rebellion against true islam - which is with following RasulAllah SAW and unity of the muslimeen

WOW I THINK IM GOING TO BE SUNNI NOW :D

actually.. you just proved your inability to read entire conversations.

[Haydar Husayn]

it never happened - shias made this up to increase hatred for the companions so people may not follow islam. rather they follow supposed imams from ahulbayt (who actually lived their lives as mainstream muslims)

shias say they have secret narrations from them, shias say all the narrations in agreement with sunni islam are taqiyah said in public but in secret they bore hatred.

i as a sunni cannot allow you to malign the image of Ali RA like this, implying cowardice on his part or a direct order from Allah SWT to allow falsehood. both ofthese possible shia explainations are just conjecture they make to continue their rebellion against true islam - which is with following RasulAllah SAW and unity of the muslimeen

Do you at least accept that Umar threatened to burn down the door?

[Kamranistan]

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234941263-how-exactly-was-bibi-fatima-as-killed/

Post number 2 may help you, inshaAllah.

[ktmnabi]

Do you at least accept that Umar threatened to burn down the door?

when Ali RA in narrations of shia and sunni during his reign as khalif, said the best after the Prophet is Abu Bakr RA and Umar RA it was said in taqiyah??

i hope this answers your question about importance of unified pledge of allegiance

Edited September 18, 2011 by ktmnabi

[Basim Ali]

its not the killing, its more why he didnt protect the house...i.e just gone out

Because going out would mean he would have to give the oath of allegiance to an illegitimate ruler? :donno:

[ktmnabi]

WOW I THINK IM GOING TO BE SUNNI NOW :D actually.. you just proved your inability to read entire conversations.

i dont see you becoming shia or sunni anytime soon or later

if you were a shia you would already have known not to ask this question

Edited September 18, 2011 by ktmnabi

[Haydar Husayn]

when Ali RA in narrations of shia and sunni during his reign as khalif, said the best after the Prophet is Abu Bakr RA and Umar RA it was said in taqiyah??

i hope this answers your question about importance of unified pledge of allegiance

That doesn't really answer my question, which requires a simple yes or no. Please try again.

As for the hadith you provided, if it was so well known that the best after the Prophet (pbuh) were those individuals, in that order, don't you think it would have made the choice of successors rather obvious? Why would Umar need to form a council of 6 to pick the next Caliph, and why was the Caliphate first offered to Ali (as) before Uthman? Surely it would have been obvious that Uthman should have been selected, due to the Prophet (pbuh) saying he was the third best person after him. And why would Ali (as) not have rushed to pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr if he really believe that he was the best after the Prophet (pbuh)? I don't know what kind of planet you have to be on to believe Uthman was better than Ali anyway.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Haider Husayn

[Al-Hadi]

Thanks i have my answer :D

http://www.shiachat....tima-as-killed/

Post number 2 may help you, inshaAllah.

Shukran to everyone that replied :D May Allah (swt) bless you all

[ktmnabi]

Thanks i have my answer :D

Shukran to everyone that replied :D May Allah (swt) bless you all

what was the answer?

haider: i will reply to you, inshallah

Edited September 18, 2011 by ktmnabi

[Kamranistan]

i dont see you becoming shia or sunni anytime soon or later

if you were a shia you would already have known not to ask this question

http://www.shiachat....ut-early-shias/

What do you mean not ask this question? He's on the search for knowledge, do you know what he knows or what he doesn't know of? And what's wrong with asking this question and I don't doubt his sincerity.

[Al-Hadi]

i dont see you becoming shia or sunni anytime soon or later

if you were a shia you would already have known not to ask this question

http://www.shiachat....ut-early-shias/

Congratulations, another expression of your brain dead existence.

Since when is asking questions wrong? And why would i know not to ask this question?

Edited September 18, 2011 by Al-Hadi

[Shia_Debater]

(salam)

it never happened - shias made this up to increase hatred for the companions so people may not follow islam. rather they follow supposed imams from ahulbayt (who actually lived their lives as mainstream muslims)

shias say they have secret narrations from them, shias say all the narrations in agreement with sunni islam are taqiyah said in public but in secret they bore hatred.

i as a sunni cannot allow you to malign the image of Ali RA like this, implying cowardice on his part or a direct order from Allah SWT to allow falsehood. both ofthese possible shia explainations are just conjecture they make to continue their rebellion against true islam - which is with following RasulAllah SAW and unity of the muslimeen

Well I follow the Jaffari school of thought. And I can honestly say I haven't come across any secret hadiths that were given to me upon being born, nor becoming baligh, nor deciding to follow Islam. Infact I think you're just saying what you're hearing from others.

We don't follow "supposed Imams (as)" .. your leader Abu Hanifa was taught by our 6th Imam, Imam Jafar Sadiq (as). Also Malik Ibn Anas another one of your leaders was taught by our 6th Imam, Imam Jafir Sadiq (as).

The Imam (abu hanifa) went to Medina in 102 A.H. in pursuit of Knowledge and attended the lessons of seven top theologians. The celebrated Imam Musa Kazim and his illustrious son Imam Jafar Sadiq the descendants of the House of the Prophet (sws), were the greatest authorities in Islamic learning of their times and Imam Abu Hanifa took full advantage of their society in Medina. He was highly impressed with the erudition of Imam Jafar Sadiq whom he acknowledged as the most learned man in the world of Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ab%C5%AB_%E1%B8%A4an%C4%ABfa

The 12 Imams (as) were the most knowledgeable of their time, most pious of their time, most God-Fearing of their time. There is none better than them to be the leader.

Go and follow your leader Umar with hes innovations such as "assalatul khayral minal nawm"

Carpets weren't even introduced into the Mosque of the Prophet (pbuh) until 300 years after his death and you claim that we are innovating for praying on a turbah/mohr

Imam Ali (as) has the most merits written down about him after rasoolAllah (pbuh)

Imam Ali (as) was the son in law and the cousin of rasoolAllah (pbuh), who was raised by rasoolAllah (pbuh), who sacrificed his life for rasoolAllah (pbuh), who was like a brother to rasoolAllah (pbuh)

Imam Hassan (a.s) and Imam Hussein (a.s) were loved by rasoolAllah pbuh

Abu Bakr angered Lady Fatima (a.s)

Umar ran away from battle

Uthman was hated by the ummah they revolted against him

The characteristics of the first 3 caliphs show they aren't fit to be leaders of anything, let alone leading the Ummah.

If you believe you are following the sunnah then good luck to you, cos you're gonna need it

(wasalam)

Edited September 18, 2011 by Shia_Debater

[ktmnabi]

Congratulations, another expression of your brain dead existence.

Since when is asking questions wrong? And why would i know not to ask this question?

lets focus on brain damage and see who suffers from it

what was the answer you found to your question?

Edited September 18, 2011 by ktmnabi

[Al-Hadi]

lets focus on brain damage and see who suffers from it

what was the answer you found to your question?

if you look at my thank you post. I quoted the post that led me to my answer, hence me saying you're brain dead. you have a serious lack of reading skills.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Al-Hadi

[ktmnabi]

from provided link

"they(umar and abu bak's men or supporters) went to fatima's house , Fatima said i will not allow you to enter without my permission , they returned and they told umar fatima does not allow us to enter without her permission , thereby umar became angry and ordered men to carry firewood and he also carried with them and they put the firewood around the house of fatima , umar then rose his voice so imam ali can hear and said by god you rather come out and pay alleince to the successur of the prophet or i will set your house on fire , umar then returned to abu bakr becasue he was too scared from imam ali to enter, abu bakr then said tell him to come out if he doesnt , break into the house and set it on fire, umar , kunfuz and thei friends broke intothe house without permission, imam ali rushed to his sword but they took holf of it before he got to it , they then charged their swords at imam ali and put a black rope around his neck and fatima had been injured after the charging at the door and kunfuz(la) wipped her on her upper arm abu bakr ordered abu bakr to wip her , untill he broke her ribs and caused her to have a miscarage untill. later on , she remained in her bed injured till she died from the attack as a martyry " ...

"they(umar and abu bak's men or supporters) went to fatima's house

ok, so for such an important event, more details are not provided such as names, no worries overlook the need for details for an attack on a masomeen.

the supernatural strength of Ali ra according to the shias is not known by these people or atleast ignored

Fatima said i will not allow you to enter without my permission , they returned and they told umar fatima does not allow us to enter without her permission ,

ok-ish, they were hoping for permission to do the task they had been sent to do

Thereby umar became angry and ordered men to carry firewood and he also carried with them and they put the firewood around the house of fatima, umar then rose his voice so imam ali can hear and said by god you rather come out and pay alleince to the successur of the prophet or i will set your house on fire , umar then returned to abu bakr becasue he was too scared from imam ali to enter,

put firewood around the house, then threatened, then got scared

abu bakr then said tell him to come out, if he doesnt reak into the house and set it on fire,

became unscared enough to do this

umar , kunfuz and thei friends broke intothe house without permission

finally did it

imam ali rushed to his sword but they took holf of it before he got to it ,

this was the answer to your question, where was imam Ali a.s?

they then charged their swords at imam ali and put a black rope around his neck and fatima had been injured after the charging at the door and kunfuz(la) wipped her on her upper arm abu bakr ordered abu bakr to wip her , untill he broke her ribs and caused her to have a miscarage untill

made imam watch this?

. later on , she remained in her bed injured till she died from the attack as a martyry "

imam then helped the califas

Edited September 19, 2011 by ktmnabi

[Righteous]

from provided link

ok, so for such an important event, more details are not provided such as names, no worries overlook the need for details for an attack on a masomeen.

the supernatural strength of Ali ra according to the shias is not known by these people or atleast ignored

ok-ish, they were hoping for permission to do the task they had been sent to do

put firewood around the house, then threatened, then got scared

became unscared enough to do this

finally did it

this was the answer to your question, where was imam Ali a.s?

made imam watch this?

imam then helped the califas

your bias is making you miss the point.

If you were indeed looking for the truth you will find it, but you are here to preach and convert us shia kaffirs, arent you.

If you believe that Abu Bakr, Umer and Uthman were superior to Ali (as) then let us judge them on defined KPIs and come to a conclusion

Understanding Quran

Nearness to Prophet (SAW) in relation and faith

Bravery

Justice

Steadfastness in faith (Piety)

Instead of going round and round in circles about everything else, lets decide on the superiority of Ali over Sheikhan and the third. We can deconstruct other tenants of your faith later on.

[master_ier]

Why didn’t Imam Ali (as) react when he witnessed his wife being attacked

Why did Lady Fatima (as) stand behind the door even though Imam Ali (as) was present in the house?

[twoblade]

Well I follow the Jaffari school of thought. And I can honestly say I haven't come across any secret hadiths that were given to me upon being born, nor becoming baligh, nor deciding to follow Islam. Infact I think you're just saying what you're hearing from others.

He's talking about how Shi'i scholars reconcile narrations. When there are contradictions, if one set of narrations agrees with non-Twelvers, it suggests the Imam was lying at the time and he told the truth to a select group of followers in secret.

[Kamranistan]

I think the OP got his answer..

[ktmnabi]

That doesn't really answer my question, which requires a simple yes or no. Please try again.

As for the hadith you provided, if it was so well known that the best after the Prophet (pbuh) were those individuals, in that order, don't you think it would have made the choice of successors rather obvious? Why would Umar need to form a council of 6 to pick the next Caliph, and why was the Caliphate first offered to Ali (as) before Uthman? Surely it would have been obvious that Uthman should have been selected, due to the Prophet (pbuh) saying he was the third best person after him. And why would Ali (as) not have rushed to pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr if he really believe that he was the best after the Prophet (pbuh)? I don't know what kind of planet you have to be on to believe Uthman was better than Ali anyway.

haider i will only answer this point in bold but answers to all your questions are available.

the hadith i refered to was not from the Prophet SAW but from Ali ra himself, it is regarding what the loyalty of the people should be and was said during emir ul momineen RA's caliphate. of course you can reject what Ali RA said and accept this if you like:

"they(umar and abu bak's men or supporters) went to fatima's house , Fatima said i will not allow you to enter without my permission , they returned and they told umar fatima does not allow us to enter without her permission , thereby umar became angry and ordered men to carry firewood and he also carried with them and they put the firewood around the house of fatima , umar then rose his voice so imam ali can hear and said by god you rather come out and pay alleince to the successur of the prophet or i will set your house on fire , umar then returned to abu bakr becasue he was too scared from imam ali to enter, abu bakr then said tell him to come out if he doesnt , break into the house and set it on fire, umar , kunfuz and thei friends broke intothe house without permission, imam ali rushed to his sword but they took holf of it before he got to it , they then charged their swords at imam ali and put a black rope around his neck and fatima had been injured after the charging at the door and kunfuz(la) wipped her on her upper arm abu bakr ordered abu bakr to wip her , untill he broke her ribs and caused her to have a miscarage untill. later on , she remained in her bed injured till she died from the attack as a martyry " ...