Can Anyone Answer This Sunni?

[SlaveOfAllah14]

Sallam Brothers and Sisters.

I was just surfing the net and came to this video clip

.It is not a long clip you must watch it.

It shows an Iranian shia guy who claimed to have converted to sunni. He has raised some strong points against shia Islam e.g. (Imams hearing us whereever we are and hears us everywhere). I just wanted to ask any shia debater or knowledged person to do a response video to this guy (so who ever watches the video can watch the response). Or discuss some of his points here.

Thanks everyone!

[alimohamad40]

well you can not say everything he is saying is wrong but he is judging the shia school by the beliefs of the gulaat which are unfortunately the majority today and their belief has shirk but what he is not realizing that the sunnies also have another type of shirk where they give god the attributes of the created.

[JimJam]

He should be reminded of the hadith of our prophet talking to the corpses of the pagans after Badr

It is related from Abu Talha that on the day of Badr the Prophet of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, had commanded that twenty-four men of the leaders of Quraysh be thrown into one of dirty stone wells of Badr. Whenever he defeated a people, he used to stay in the area for three nights. On the third day of Badr, he commanded that his she-camel be saddled and then went, followed by his Companions. They said, 'We only suppose that he is going to something of import,' and he stopped at the edge of the well and became to call them by their names and the names of their fathers, 'O so-amd-so son of so-and-so! O so-amd-so son of so-and-so! Would it have pleased you to have obeyed Allah and His Messenger?' We have found what our Lord promised us to be true? Have you found what your Lord promised you to be true?'" He said, "'Umar said, 'Messenger of Allah, are you speaking to soulless bodies?' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'By the One who has the soul of Muhammad in His hand, you do not hear what I say better than they do!'"

Qatada said, "Allah brought them to life so that they could hear what he said as a rebuke, to belittle them, and for revenge, grief and regret." (It seems like his own explaination)

Sahih Bukhari,Chapter 67. Book of Expeditions, Hadith 3757.

And Shiism believes that the souls of believers and disbelievers goto the barzakh and both visit their famlies after death, so to think that the Imams cannot hear after death or see is illogical for us. Allah has allowed his for the believers and disbelievers so why would he disallow this for the Imams?

Edited September 18, 2011 by JimJam

[alimohamad40]

brother jim jam he is not only talking about the dead hearing he talked about giving the imams attributes which are exclusive to god and that part is true the believers in the wylayah takwynyah hold this sort of beliefs

its beliefs like the masoom controls every atom in the creation as imam khoomainy stated in the 40 hadeeths book which he is talking about

Edited September 18, 2011 by alimohamad40

[Ali_Hussain]

If the Imams (a) hear and see everything, what is this sermon about in nahjul balagha?

What Amir al-mu'minin said on the occasion of the burial of Sayyidatu'n-nisa' (Supreme lady) Fatimah (p.b.u.h.) while addressing the Holy Prophet at his grave.

O' Prophet of Allah, peace be upon you from me and from your daughter who has come to you and who has hastened to meet you. O' Prophet of Allah, my patience about your chosen (daughter) has been exhausted, and my power of endurance has weakened, except that I have ground for consolation in having endured the great hardship and heart-rending event of your separation. I laid you down in your grave when your last breath had passed (when your head was) between my neck and chest.

... Verily we are Allah's and verily unto Him shall we return. (Qur'an 2:156)

Now. the trust has been returned and what had been given has been taken back. As to my grief, it knows no bounds, and as to my nights. they will remain sleepless till Allah chooses for me the house in which you are now residing.

Certainly, your daughter would apprise you of the joining together of your [1] ummah (people) for oppressing her. You ask her in detail and get all the news about the position. This has happened when a long time had not elapsed and your remembrance had not disappeared. My salam (salutation) be on you both, the salam of a grief stricken not a disgusted or hateful person; for if I go away it is not because I am weary (of you), and if I stay it is not due to lack of belief in what Allah has promised the endurers.

Is it only imams who are all seeing and all hearing, but when it comes to rasulullah (s) he didn't know what oppressions his own daughter suffered?

Noone is saying that the graves of people aren't special places, and there is no doubt that if you visit the grave of an imam they can hear you, but people shouldn't take it further than that

And the Messenger of Allah (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) said: Whoever gives salam upon me at my grave I hear him, and whoever gives salam upon me from afar I am informed of it.

http://www.tashayyu....ams-after-death

Edited September 18, 2011 by Ali_Hussain

[JimJam]

brother jim jam he is not only talking about the dead hearing he talked about giving the imams attributes which are exclusive to god and that part is true the believers in the wylayah takwynyah hold this sort of beliefs

its beliefs like the masoom controls every atom in the creation as imam khoomainy stated in the 40 hadeeths book which he is talking about

They do with Allah permission if they do so. Im not saying they do, but Allah does say that the holders of wilayah are witnesses over mankind. And you're seriously underestimating God if you believe that such beliefs undermine God. Allah encompasses and exceeds everything, be it us, the universe or the Imams. Whatever they are, they are because of Allah.

[firoz1986]

why shia always try to show that we are better,,, and what shia world really want i don't know..

sometime i think are shias have different Quran? All these battle of Mullas.. i love Iran...because this country is doing struggle against Europe....why we fight each other to make happy of enemy of Islam....

[Philip]

Because we are all fallible you'll find mistakes in all Islamic schools. And there r tons of controversies thatcan also be addressed.

I think the best argument against this guy is that ge chose a way that has MANY more faults in academia and leadership .. Enough to compare suni n shia leaders. Also in context to historic realities in relation to ahl bayt.

That's my guess anyway,

(salam)

[Rasul]

This guy is idiot and never was shia....

[Shia_Debater]

Sallam Brothers and Sisters.

I was just surfing the net and came to this video clip

.It is not a long clip you must watch it.

It shows an Iranian shia guy who claimed to have converted to sunni. He has raised some strong points against shia Islam e.g. (Imams hearing us whereever we are and hears us everywhere). I just wanted to ask any shia debater or knowledged person to do a response video to this guy (so who ever watches the video can watch the response). Or discuss some of his points here.

Thanks everyone!

(salam)

:o :o someone asked for a Shia Debater ?!?! :P

1) If Allah (swt) wills then the Imams (as) will be able to know every language after they die, and will be able to hear us wherever we are, I personally however do not believe that the Imams (as) can hear us wherever we are as I haven't seen any proofs from Qur'an or ahadith but Allah (swt) knows best.

2) I have never heard that if this world was without 1 of our 12 imams (as) for 1 day then the world would perish .. if this is true then someone please provide me with 1 or more hadiths.

3) Sayed Ammar describes the concept of Rajah :

(wasalam)

Edited September 18, 2011 by Shia_Debater

[alimohamad40]

(salam)

:o :o someone asked for a Shia Debater ?!?! :P

1) If Allah (swt) wills then the Imams (as) will be able to know every language after they die, and will be able to hear us wherever we are, I personally however do not believe that the Imams (as) can hear us wherever we are as I haven't seen any proofs from Qur'an or ahadith but Allah (swt) knows best.

2) I have never heard that if this world was without 1 of our 12 imams (as) for 1 day then the world would perish .. if this is true then someone please provide me with 1 or more hadiths.

3) Sayed Ammar describes the concept of Rajah :

(wasalam)

if Allah wills he will appoint a shareek Associate with himself ?

if Allah will he can kill himself and stop existing ?

if Allah wills he can limit himself and come in the shape of jesus christ ?

If Allah wills he can divide himself into two entities?

NO

allahs only limitation is himself , this means he doesnt contradict himself

he is one so he can not be two

he is infinite so he can not be Finite

so he has the description of full knowledge so he will not give that to anyone

but unfortunately our friends are saying the imams have the complete knowledge of the unseen which was supposed to be exclusive for god and they justify it by saying " god wanted that"

god does not contradict himself and he prohibited association so why would he take an associate ?

salaam

allahs only limitation is himself which means Allah

Edited September 18, 2011 by alimohamad40

[MysticKnight]

Honestly, I think the reverence Shias have for the Imams exceeds that of which the pagans had for their idols...it's just one is called Worship and the other isn't....

[Rasul]

Honestly, I think the reverence Shias have for the Imams exceeds that of which the pagans had for their idols...it's just one is called Worship and the other isn't....

It's ok to think so when you are misguided...

[Shia_Debater]

if Allah wills he will appoint a shareek Associate with himself ?

if Allah will he can kill himself and stop existing ?

if Allah wills he can limit himself and come in the shape of jesus christ ?

If Allah wills he can divide himself into two entities?

NO

allahs only limitation is himself , this means he doesnt contradict himself

he is one so he can not be two

he is infinite so he can not be Finite

so he has the description of full knowledge so he will not give that to anyone

but unfortunately our friends are saying the imams have the complete knowledge of the unseen which was supposed to be exclusive for god and they justify it by saying " god wanted that"

god does not contradict himself and he prohibited association so why would he take an associate ?

salaam

allahs only limitation is himself which means Allah

JazakAllah Khair for clarifying it .. strengthened my belief in what I thought before .. that the Imams (as) aren't all hearing, all seeing and all knowing

Edited September 19, 2011 by Shia_Debater

[Philip]

This guy is idiot and never was shia....

I have similar suspicions

[SlaveOfAllah14]

I have similar suspicions

u

I have similar suspicions

u mean the guy on the video???

[twoblade]

And Shiism believes that the souls of believers and disbelievers goto the barzakh and both visit their famlies after death, so to think that the Imams cannot hear after death or see is illogical for us.

According to Twelver stories, most of the Imams were shuhada. Shuhada go straight to paradise. Are you comparing the prophet's ability to speak to the dead kufaar during a specific occasion before they enter Jahanam to a mo'min's ability to speak to somebody separated by physical planes limitlessly? You're imposing an analogy and a meaning on the text that isn't there.

(It seems like his own explaination)

It's not a ziyada, Qatada was at Badr...

[JimJam]

According to Twelver stories, most of the Imams were shuhada. Shuhada go straight to paradise. Are you comparing the prophet's ability to speak to the dead kufaar during a specific occasion before they enter Jahanam to a mo'min's ability to speak to somebody separated by physical planes limitlessly? You're imposing an analogy and a meaning on the text that isn't there.

You seem to be assuming that its impossible for any soul in paradise to know of what happening in this world.

It's not a ziyada, Qatada was at Badr...

Umhm, but this sounds like his own explanation of the incident. The prophet didn't say "i have brought them to life for two minutes and now I'm talking to them". Umars said, "why're you talking to souless corpses and he said, "you donot hear me better than they do"

Edited September 20, 2011 by JimJam

[Saintly_Jinn23]

These are rather primitive arguments by this man. I will answer in my own way. ;)

He doesn't seem to refer to any particular hadith or traditions, rather he points out a behavior and accuses it of expressing such-and-such a belief. For example, we say "Ya Ali," therefore we must believe the Imams are all hearing. Which is a rather silly conclusion to come to. Yes, I believe if I say "Ya Ali," Ali (pbuh) can hear me wherever I say it, but there is a difference in saying Ali (as) can hear me wherever I am and Ali (as) is "all hearing." Ali only hears what Alllah allows him to hear, and which of my words Ali can hear and how often depends on the limits set by God.

I would put forth this argument to a so called "Sunni" (I hate to use that word for non-Shia schools but I have to lol): why does God use angels to exact his will, there are plenty of Sunni hadith that confirm that the moments in the Quran when God says he created such and such, the hadith go into detail and explain that God commanded the angels to do the specific actions and it is through their actions that he created because the actions them self were commanded directly by him or approved by him. So the idea that God's means of performing an action is through a creation does not contradict their hadith. Heck it is from THEIR hadith that I learned that when God said in the Quran that he brings/creates the rain, that the angel Michael (as) is sent and he makes it come into effect. So we know that certain things, by what is in their hadith, are attributed to Allah but that he expressed this action, that he did this action, through a previously created being of his. Ali is around me, but I am not around Ali, and Ali nor I are around God, but God is around us both.

So the idea that God's will or an attribute of his is realized through a creation of his is not exactly unique to us. As for the Imams being able to hear us, this is because we believe, or at least I believe, I can't necessarily speak for the rest of you guys, but I believe they hear us through several means, mainly because they existed with God long ago before he created you and me. It was through them that he created the universe, in the same manner he creates the rain through Michael (as) and the gifts he's endowed him with. The so called "Sunnis" can't deny this is a concept only found in Shia works. Though the Imams do not have the same omnipresence as God, this doesn't mean that they can't hear us where we are right now.

I think of it like this: Ali (as) is around me, but I am not around Ali (as), and neither Ali nor I are around Allah, but Allah is roundabout us both.

Edited September 20, 2011 by Saintly_Jinn23

[theTRUEislam]

open yours eyes people before its to late

life is short

[Abo_Al7ur]

Sallam Brothers and Sisters.

I was just surfing the net and came to this video clip

.It is not a long clip you must watch it.

It shows an Iranian shia guy who claimed to have converted to sunni. He has raised some strong points against shia Islam e.g. (Imams hearing us whereever we are and hears us everywhere). I just wanted to ask any shia debater or knowledged person to do a response video to this guy (so who ever watches the video can watch the response). Or discuss some of his points here.

Thanks everyone!

Another wahabi game ^_^

They always do that :P

But if it is true he was shia and convert to sunni, it is fine for me. We don't need ignorance people in our religion :D

[SlaveOfAllah14]

you are right brother Saintly_Jinn23. I kind of came to the same conclusion as you. The imams can hear us but by Allah's will. Also we should never compare Allah to his creation because it just doesn't make sense and we just can't. e.g. the sunnis say we give Allah's attribut to the imams. Well no, we don't we give good attributes to the imams. eg in the quran it says the prophet is Karim. Does that mean that Allah's attribute is given to the prophet? well see how we can't compare them?

Also see how us muslims we believe that Allah is the eternal and the last, well we humans are also forever living. Because in the quran it says to those who go to heaven that they will dwell there in for EVER. Now that does not mean that humans are Nazobillah Allah. See how we can't compare Allah to his creation, because Allah is the eternal.

So the same thing in this video. Yes imams are hearing and knowing but by the will of Allah and we can't compare them to Allah cause Allah is the greatest! :)

[Philip]

u mean the guy on the video???

Yeah the guy who converted from Shia Ali .. Without seeing the video I suspected that

[SlaveOfAllah14]

well who cares about that. We should be able to answer his points which he is raisings.

[worshiper]

suppose if a situation comes in life that every shia converts to other sects; what will u do den? just think.

just read or listen d tragedy of karbala n u alone will be left 4 being dat lone fella.....................

shia islam is absolutely practicing through feelings which requires knowlege n wisdom both not like other sects.

otherwise it wd hav become sunnah to marry 63 times or whatever d figure was.