Wats Next To Hereafter?

[syed_hasan_taqvi]

Salam readers,uptill now i've heard n read that Allah created us n v shall return to Him...so wat i wanr answer to is that (as v live in the age of reasonin) wat was the time when the universe n v were created??

Secondly,after the judgement day how long wil v survive in heaven or hell???what will b our job in heaven or hell???what will become of time and other science which (some of it) has been linked with islam n Quran????

I dnt want any link or an essay...just give me a comprehensive answer...reply asap!!!!!

Regards

ws

[JimJam]

Time is relative to space. Space and time were both created with by the big bang. Our understanding of time is confined to this universe which is the only existence we know of. Unless we come to know of other realities outside this universe we cant know what time it was (on a multiverse scale perhaps) when the big bang happened.

After the judgement day a existence will be created, the new reality is said to be forever. In heaven people will remain forever in contentment. In hell the damned will suffer forever.

In different universes the laws of nature will be different.

[Shia_Debater]

(salam)

When the universe was created?

As far as I know there isn't any mention in the Qur'an or from our hadeeths of when Allah (swt) created the universe. Allah (swt) knows best.

How long will we be in heaven or hell for?

But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal home: Therein shall they have spouses purified: We shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening. Holy Qur'an Surah 4 Verse 57

What will be our Job in heaven?

We are told in the Qur'an that heaven is a reward for us, this implies that there is no job for us there because we are working for that reward it wouldn't make sense to then be obliged to work in that reward.

134. Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good;-

135. And those who, having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls, earnestly bring Allah to mind, and ask for forgiveness for their sins,- and who can forgive sins except Allah.- and are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done.

136. For such the reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens with rivers flowing underneath,- an eternal dwelling: How excellent a recompense for those who work (and strive)!

(wasalam)

[wundermonk]

Hello Syed:

I am not Muslim. This forum is named "The Thinker's Discourse". I do think I am a thinker. Perhaps it may not be out of place for me to provide my thoughts.

(1)As per atheists, nothing happens. The soul is an emergent property of our brain and the soul "dies" when the brain dies. There IS no hereafter.

(2)As per Islam [as far as my understanding goes], believers will be in heaven forever. Disbelievers like me will burn in hell forever.

(3)According to Hinduism, based on our accumulated Karma, we will take rebirth in another life in an attempt to pay for the mistakes or benefit from the good actions committed in this life.

[shoelace]

I can bet my life for two things.

1)for sure there is a presence of GOD in universe and there is no way all this world is created without a reason.

2)hell or heaven cant be end to this journey,may be right now we are not made aware of next level to this journey,but for sure there is some next level to this ausm process to perfection.

[JimJam]

^But with reincarnation, you'll be a different creature in a completely different body, with no recollection of what you were and no knowledge of what mistakes you made in the past to even think of trying to correct them or feeling rewarded or punished.Practically dying in the scheme of Hinduism is effectively like dying in Atheism.

The Buddhists seem to have given this much though and believe that there is no such thing like the self, or personality. An individual is just an ever-changing 'mindstream'.

[wundermonk]

^But with reincarnation, you'll be a different creature in a completely different body, with no recollection of what you were and no knowledge of what mistakes you made in the past to even think of trying to correct them or feeling rewarded or punished.Practically dying in the scheme of Hinduism is effectively like dying in Atheism.

Hi JimJam. According to theory, it is not always that you end up as a different species from this life as a human. You are, in general, correct that most of us do not have any *direct* recollection of our past lives. Yet, there is are two reasons why it can be argued that reincarnation must be true.

(1)child prodigies - a few of us manage to be able to achieve so much more at very young age. For instance, I believe there are children who know the entire Quran by heart at a very young age.

(2)children, particularly twins, born of the same parents end up very differently later on in life. One of the twins is super intelligent, while the other may not be.

Both of these point to some vestigial remnant knowledge/effect of a previous birth - Karma/Reincarnation in action.

There are two counter-explanations to these phenomena. The naturalist will argue that both these phenomena can be explained in purely rationalistic terms. Muslims will (probably) argue that it is predestination.

There is yet another reason why it may NOT be possible for us to remember direct details our past lives. Our mind/brain structure is possibly limited in its capacity and hence if we were to remember our past life, by induction, we also have to remember ALL of our previous lives. This may be too much for our mind/brain.

That being said, the belief goes that some individuals in the highest state of meditation - Hinduism refers to this state as Turiya - ARE able to recall past lives. In fact, Buddha is fabled to have remembered quite a few of his past lives. [More on this subsequently.]

From a theistic perspective, there is yet another powerful reason to believe in Karma/Reincarnation. This has to do with the problem of evil. Do we want to ultimately ascribe to God the reason why some people are born poor, some people are born rich, some people are born with great genetic health, some people have health issue right from birth? If God is to escape the charge of being unfair to his subjects, it has to allow the souls to be the makers of their own destiny. Via Karma/Reincarnation, the Hindu God gets absolved from the charge of being an unfair God. If you have a better explanation of the Problem of Evil that absolves God from being the ultimate source of creation of evil in the world, I would love to understand it.

Karma already happens in our earthly life. The choices that I made in my early life [which subject to specialize in - engineering, medicine, accounting, etc] already affect my life today. Karma/Reincarnation simply extends thic concept over multiple lifetimes.

The Buddhists seem to have given this much though and believe that there is no such thing like the self, or personality. An individual is just an ever-changing 'mindstream'.

The Buddhist logicians after Buddha's lifetime DID go to the extreme of denying the existence of the soul/self. However, the Buddha himself was agnostic. There is a celebrated story when a man approaches him and confronts him with the question of whether there is such a thing as a soul. The Buddha remained quiet. In any case, mainstream Buddhism is more about alleviating suffering in this life and doesnt posit an afterlife. Buddhism also doesnt speculate on cosmogony. The Buddha is supposed to have said that speculation on cosmogony vexes one's mind leading to madness.

That being said, not all Buddhists deny the existence of Karma/Reincarnation. Jataka Tales are a famous collection of stories revolving around the various rebirths/reincarnation of Buddha.

[syed_hasan_taqvi]

thnx fellows..bt my querry is okay their is hell n heaven..bt tell me dnt u guyz think that when Allah sent us He sent us with a purpose to serve n worship...n this all will come to an end when v die...bt when 1 thinks of comin to this world with a purpose then hw can u expect the next world to be without any purpose n without any end..there has to be a vast explanation for this...as far as the big bang goes..even the scientists contradict it..n v cant explain everythin(i repeat..everythin) through science because our spirit is not somethin that can b calculated neither r our words...so think abt it..n get some ans..plzzzz...

ws

[syed_hasan_taqvi]

o n by the way their is a verse frm allama iqbal....he says..

"sitaron se aage jahan aur bhi han.abhi ishq k imtehan aur bhi han"..so think abt it mayb this might help :)

[Shia_Debater]

Well Allah (swt) created us with a purpose and thats to worship him and him alone. Once we die then we are rewarded if we have followed the Law of Allah (swt) and punished if we haven't. Now if we get to jannah (insha'Allah we do) then we don't have a purpose because our purpose would have been fulfilled, sure we can still pray to Allah (swt) but I doubt it would be obligatory. I doubt we would be given a reward and then have to carry out obligations in that reward, it wouldn't make sense.

Allah (swt) knows best.

[syed_hasan_taqvi]

yup..just think of it a person livin in so much rush n hardships ..hw can that person b at ease without havin anythin to do..then ofcourse again my question has not been answered..

ws

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

Well Allah (swt) created us with a purpose and thats to worship him and him alone. Once we die then we are rewarded if we have followed the Law of Allah (swt) and punished if we haven't. Now if we get to jannah (insha'Allah we do) then we don't have a purpose because our purpose would have been fulfilled, sure we can still pray to Allah (swt) but I doubt it would be obligatory. I doubt we would be given a reward and then have to carry out obligations in that reward, it wouldn't make sense.

Allah (swt) knows best.

really?

My understanding of jannah is that obviously a soul thats pure can enter it hence the level of purity depends on the sincerity in worship. So, how can something thats made obligatory in this world will not be performed in the next? Its obligatory here because there is a chance we will miss it because of our Nafs, in the other world we dont have the Nafs so we will perform worship on our own will because we would want to worship. Remember, Imams worship Allah (swt) because He is worthy of worship, when someone is in jannah they will be doing the same.

Also, we are not aware of dimensions of that world but one thing is for sure that time doesnt exist there. Since we dont have Nafs to make us do disobedience, we will obviously not get tired of living there (a point lots of people bring up that being humans we will get tired of having everything). Whats after Jannah is pretty much unknown to us. Maybe urafa's know it

[JimJam]

Hi JimJam. According to theory, it is not always that you end up as a different species from this life as a human.

Anybody other than you is a different creature, be they human.

You are, in general, correct that most of us do not have any *direct* recollection of our past lives. Yet, there is are two reasons why it can be argued that reincarnation must be true.

(1)child prodigies - a few of us manage to be able to achieve so much more at very young age. For instance, I believe there are children who know the entire Quran by heart at a very young age.

(2)children, particularly twins, born of the same parents end up very differently later on in life. One of the twins is super intelligent, while the other may not be.

Both of these point to some vestigial remnant knowledge/effect of a previous birth - Karma/Reincarnation in action.

There are two counter-explanations to these phenomena. The naturalist will argue that both these phenomena can be explained in purely rationalistic terms. Muslims will (probably) argue that it is predestination.

But these things are better explained by rational / biological explanations rather than any supernatural explanation. Nature vs Nurture and the fact that a child's mind can be very easily molded. I accept both the naturalists view and fate.

There is yet another reason why it may NOT be possible for us to remember direct details our past lives. Our mind/brain structure is possibly limited in its capacity and hence if we were to remember our past life, by induction, we also have to remember ALL of our previous lives. This may be too much for our mind/brain.

If reincarnation is Karma and a reward / punishment what is the point of it it when I dont even remember what I'm being punished or rewarded for? Eventually the privileged will start claiming a spiritual superiority for why would they be born privileged unless its a reward for past virtue and the poor will be scorned and be considered to be under a punishment for past transgressions.

Isn't it better to be content with whatever fate gives you?

That being said, the belief goes that some individuals in the highest state of meditation - Hinduism refers to this state as Turiya - ARE able to recall past lives. In fact, Buddha is fabled to have remembered quite a few of his past lives. [More on this subsequently.]

You cant find the belief in past lives outside of the Sub continent or subcontinent influenced areas. Most of the world's people from all ages from the Greeks to the mayans believe in the one-shot view.

From a theistic perspective, there is yet another powerful reason to believe in Karma/Reincarnation. This has to do with the problem of evil. Do we want to ultimately ascribe to God the reason why some people are born poor, some people are born rich, some people are born with great genetic health, some people have health issue right from birth? If God is to escape the charge of being unfair to his subjects, it has to allow the souls to be the makers of their own destiny. Via Karma/Reincarnation, the Hindu God gets absolved from the charge of being an unfair God. If you have a better explanation of the Problem of Evil that absolves God from being the ultimate source of creation of evil in the world, I would love to understand it.

Karma already happens in our earthly life. The choices that I made in my early life [which subject to specialize in - engineering, medicine, accounting, etc] already affect my life today. Karma/Reincarnation simply extends thic concept over multiple lifetimes.

[Quran 4:78] "Wherever ye are, death will find you out, even if ye are in towers built up strong and high!" If some good befalls them, they say, "This is from Allah"; but if evil, they say, "This is from thee" (O Prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah." But what hath come to these people, that they fail to understand a single fact?

[Quran 4:79] Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah; but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as a messenger to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness.

Notice the verses above. Do they seem to contradict? But in realty the former verse encompasses the latter, evil that man suffers is earned through his own actions. But it comes from Allah. This is Muqafat-e-Amal in Islam, which you would call Karma. But from Allah comes all good, man has no special claim on it. If someone has what other considers privilege it is no special feat of his.

Monotheism's God is both creator and destroyer, the one who cherishes and the one who punishes. Who is a creature to question his lot in life, all one can do is make the best out of what he has and realize that those with worldly privilege are not better than him, neither are those who are under privileged worse then him before God. God is ever just.

“I heard abu al-Hassan Musa, saying, ‘Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Holy, says, “I have not made certain people rich because they are important to Me and I have not made certain people poor because they are insignificant to Me. It is because I wanted to try the rich through the poor. Had there been no poor, the rich ones would not have deserved paradise.’”

Al-Kafi, Book of Belief and Disbelief, H 2390, CH 103, h 20

The Buddhist logicians after Buddha's lifetime DID go to the extreme of denying the existence of the soul/self. However, the Buddha himself was agnostic. There is a celebrated story when a man approaches him and confronts him with the question of whether there is such a thing as a soul. The Buddha remained quiet. In any case, mainstream Buddhism is more about alleviating suffering in this life and doesnt posit an afterlife. Buddhism also doesnt speculate on cosmogony. The Buddha is supposed to have said that speculation on cosmogony vexes one's mind leading to madness.

That being said, not all Buddhists deny the existence of Karma/Reincarnation. Jataka Tales are a famous collection of stories revolving around the various rebirths/reincarnation of Buddha.

Interesting stuff, the Jataka tales. thanks.

Later Buddhists probably had to resort to rational thought and develop some sort of cosmology, because it is not enough for people to focus on alleviating suffering in this world and simply ignore questions like what we are and what happens after death.

[syed_hasan_taqvi]

i dont knw where this discussion is headed.but i would really request u all to stick to the topic n tell me wt v will do in hereafter..okay v'll worship..okay we'll live..watever bt tell me hw long..wat else will b for us except for worshippin...if we'll live for eternity as said by 1 of u..then the length of time wat do u have to say abt that..the concept of havin no time is false bcz there is mentionin of existin longer time in the other world than in here.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[133ali]

i dont knw where this discussion is headed.but i would really request u all to stick to the topic n tell me wt v will do in hereafter..okay v'll worship..okay we'll live..watever bt tell me hw long..wat else will b for us except for worshippin...if we'll live for eternity as said by 1 of u..then the length of time wat do u have to say abt that..the concept of havin no time is false bcz there is mentionin of existin longer time in the other world than in here.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother, according to our beliefs, we go to Heaven and that is our permanent abode, there will be no end to it. Those who are in Hell, will be there for varying periods of time according to the sins they have committed. According to some ulemas forever, according to the Holy Quran:

sura Baqara (Yusuf Ali English Text)

25. Wabashshiri allatheena amanoo waAAamiloo alssalihati anna lahum jannatin tajree min tahtiha al-anharu kullama ruziqoo minha min thamaratin rizqan qaloo hatha allathee ruziqna min qablu waotoo bihi mutashabihan walahum feeha azwajun mutahharatun wahum feeha khalidoona

25. But give glad tidings

To those who believe

And work righteousness,

That their portion is Gardens,

Beneath which rivers flow.

Every time they are fed

With fruits therefrom,

They say: "Why, this is

What we were fed with before,"

For they are given things in similitude;

And they have therein

Companions pure (and holy);

And they abide therein (for ever).

39. Waallatheena kafaroo wakaththaboo bi-ayatina ola-ika as-habu alnnari hum feeha khalidoona

39. "But those who reject Faith

And belie Our Signs,

They shall be Companions of the Fire;

They shall abide therein."

the word 'khaledoon' is taken as 'forever.'

Better check the tafsir of these 2 ayahs.

The whole concept of Time and Space will be changed: There are verses in the Holy Quran about the arrival of Qiyamat look them up.

Va Menallah Towfiq

Ali

[syed_hasan_taqvi]

well even if our life is eternal..would there b a world like this to keep us busy?

[JimJam]

well even if our life is eternal..would there b a world like this to keep us busy?

This promise is there several times in the Quran for the ones who reach heaven.

"Neither will they fear, nor will they grieve."

The Quran also says

[Quran 50:35] There will be for them therein all that they wish,- and more besides in Our Presence.

Here read this

http://www.al-islam.org/the-hereafter/4.htm#155

[Aly ReZa]

Salam to evry1

I have a question that once we will die we have to answer for our deeds.ok I understood that.

We have to bear the punishment for our sins and after that we will be getting aab-e-kausar and all will be fresh young and beautiful

[Shia_Debater]

Salam to evry1

I have a question that once we will die we have to answer for our deeds.ok I understood that.

We have to bear the punishment for our sins and after that we will be getting aab-e-kausar and all will be fresh young and beautiful

Whats the question?

[3rd June]

Salam to evry1

I have a question that once we will die we have to answer for our deeds.ok I understood that.

We have to bear the punishment for our sins and after that we will be getting aab-e-kausar and all will be fresh young and beautiful

If we have to answer for our deeds then what about the punishments we get over here for our sins???