Background Check Of The Potential Spouse

[Waiting for HIM]

Salam, probably it has been discussed before, but help me out here please.

A family from the opposite coast of where we live has approached my family for my brother's marriage. So yes, I admit, this is arranged part of it. Ok, my real concern is, recommend some ways of how best to check out her family, herself, her friends, her background Islamic or otherwise and so on. We do not want to be rude and over intrusive but also would like to know about them and her as much as possible. Also how best to find the dirt on them if there is any? I know it is not nice but everybody has some faults and they & she must have some too, we want to make sure there is nothing major which they may be hiding.

[Hussien]

The girls family approaches in your community? Ours is the opposite.

I guess these days you can find more about a person from their facebook account than anywhere else.

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

how much dirt is there on your brother? one should also keep in mind that is the guy worthy of marrying the woman too if she is pious, as that will be unfair for the girl. This mainly happens in indo-pak where the guy has done pretty much everything, but the family wants the perfect pious woman for the guy.

[Waiting for HIM]

"awaiting the 12th" - My brother is above average Muslim, practices wise he is pretty good and sincere and a little stringent on the choice of spouse. What we want to research is, don't want trouble in the family due to a bad apple coming in. He is not into giving divorces also so am sure whatever he will end up with, he will put up with her through thick and thin.

"Hussein" - this is indo-pak match making but there was a medium in between so it's not exactly that the girl side approached us directly.

[aladdin]

Ask the expert on this, Legio Invicta.

Hehehe, got ya!

[dan_rafi]

A thorough back ground check is mui importante! He don't need to be perfect, but u gotta know who he really is. Don't take his words for anything.

[ImAli]

I guess if you have the extra money you could hire a private investigator to watch for a while, there are also private investigators that specialize in finding things on the internet. PI may not even be necessary and you might be surprised what you can find out by just doing google searches. I once researched my family name and accidentally found a very naughty hi5 account that my cousin is involved with... :shaytan:

Edited September 14, 2011 by ImAli

[Praetorius]

Ask the expert on this, Legio Invicta.

Hehehe, got ya!

HUH?! How am I an expert on this???? :wacko:

[aladdin]

HUH?! How am I an expert on this???? :wacko:

Of course, you will next in line inshaAllah, trying to find a mate.

lol.

Just teasing, saw you in the thread, so took a swipe.

[Waiting for HIM]

Thanks for the comments so far.

1. Private investigator idea sounds good.

2. We were also thinking to ask them for ph#s/emails of their Muslim friends and relatives. We'll offer ours too. So we could call them directly and ask their opinion about the family and the girl.

3. FaceBook idea is good but people could block so many pictures and stuff. But you are right, nicest Muslims I know turn out to be this scantly dressing babes/party freak honks in their FB pics. Thanks God for FB on at least revealing people's identity somehow.

4. We were also thinking about talking to the maulana of the masjid/center they go to. If they are masjid going ppl, maulana would know them, right?

Any more ideas? Please keep coming. We'll try all those inshAllah. We are, like the rest of us, tired of getting deceived into bad compromise marriages. Mostly those who are good followers of Islam suffer more when they end up with a non serous Muslim (or Muslima).

[dan_rafi]

Well, you can be the detective. Do this:

1. Review and analyze his last 6 months bank & credit card statements - see what he's spending his $$ on.

2. Request offical univeristy transcripts. Run local, state, and national civil and criminal record check.

2. Spend 1-2 months with him (talk on the phone, email, chat, etc.).

3. Talk to his friends and co-workers.

These things are very easy to do here in the US.

Edited September 14, 2011 by dan_rafi

[Rohani]

Women and men must stop being so picky Imam (as) said clearly what to look for and that is faith. If women want some wealthy, perfectly educated to their standard and clean life you are being excessive and making it hard on yourselves to get married.

Anyways just let your brother and her talk to each other and see if they both feel compatible on faith and liking each other. if your brother likes the woman who cares about whatever else as long as she has some faith

Edited September 14, 2011 by AlMuttaqi

[Haji 2003]

1. Private investigator idea sounds good.

Not sure how much trust that will build. I think you may gain far more from just casual conversations/meetings with them. Bear in mind that the following are NOT questions or a checklist!

You want via a natural conversation to elicit a narrative about their lifestyle and the challenges that they face as observant Muslims.

1. Where do they go for their hols. Vegas? Hmm

2. When they choose non-Muslim destinations, is halal food an issue? For example they may say that destination x was tough on account of food availability - and they really had to work googlemaps to find decent places.

3. When they visit you show photo albums of your family, with the idea of reciprocation when you visit. Even if they are at the other end of the country you must visit.

4. What do they have to say about food recipes etc.? Not a lot then they eat out a lot huh? So missy does not know how to cook. Hmm. Spending too much time on Facebook.

5. Where do they go shopping? Do they go for traditional clothes or western ones, if the latter do they complain about getting stuff that's not too revealing.

6. What movies / television channels / programmes do they watch?

7. Just general discussions about moon-sighting etc. If someone is not overly concerned, then how observant are they?

At the end of the day if someone really wants to deceive you, they will. People can do stuff in 100% privacy that even close family members may not know about. But a PI may not be a good way around this, may get the marriage off to a dodgy start.

The over-riding principle must be to build trust and it should all be on the basis of reciprocity. Never ask a question to which you would not be willing to give an answer yourself.

For some of the issues above your family may need to venture their own information first, before expecting a response.

I am really concerned about the PI option to be honest.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Haji 2003

[kadhim]

Well, you can be the detective. Do this: 1. Review and analyze his last 6 months bank & credit card statements - see what he's spending his $$ on. 2. Request offical univeristy transcripts. Run local, state, and national civil and criminal record check.

Jesus Murphy..

Subtlety, people. There are smoother ways to get the job done.

Edited September 14, 2011 by kadhim

[Rohani]

^bro how would you react if you found out your wife to be and her family dug into your 20 something years of history lol

Edited September 14, 2011 by AlMuttaqi

[icewizard]

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته - Peace be upon you as well as Allah's Mercy and Blessings...

و لصلاة و السلام على خير خلق الله و حبيب قلوبنا، الرسول محمد، و آله الطيبين الطاهرين - And may the Prayers and Peace be upon the Best of Allah's Creations, the beloved of our hearts, the Messenger Muhammad as well as his Generous and Pure Family...

و لعنة الله الدائمة على أعداءهم و ظالميهم و التابعين على ذلك من الأولين إلى الآخرين - And may the permanent curse of Allah be upon their enemies and their oppressors and those who follow the trend from the first ones to the last ones...

Ermm, to put my 2 cent into this, why wouldn't you think about putting in place a mutaa mariage without intercourse?

In this case, she can come over and pass a weekend or a whole week with your family, and your brother can do the same with hers...

Or they can go for a weekend together, and even sleep together in the same bed (still without intercourse, i insist)...

At least they will learn to know each other on a "daily" basis... And they will talk about everything in a halal way, and he can check all her attributes in a halal way and they can get to know if they want to end up married (permanently) or not...

و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته - And upon you be Peace as well as Allah's Mercy and Blessings...

[Waiting for HIM]

Well, you can be the detective. Do this:

1. Review and analyze his last 6 months bank & credit card statements - see what he's spending his $$ on.

2. Request offical univeristy transcripts. Run local, state, and national civil and criminal record check.

2. Spend 1-2 months with him (talk on the phone, email, chat, etc.).

3. Talk to his friends and co-workers.

These things are very easy to do here in the US.

We are doing the bottom three. How do you go by doing #1 in your list legally? It is a good idea though.

[Rohani]

hey it is forbidden to spy in islam.

[Waiting for HIM]

Not sure how much trust that will build. I think you may gain far more from just casual conversations/meetings with them. Bear in mind that the following are NOT questions or a checklist!

You want via a natural conversation to elicit a narrative about their lifestyle and the challenges that they face as observant Muslims.

1. Where do they go for their hols. Vegas? Hmm

2. When they choose non-Muslim destinations, is halal food an issue? For example they may say that destination x was tough on account of food availability - and they really had to work googlemaps to find decent places.

3. When they visit you show photo albums of your family, with the idea of reciprocation when you visit. Even if they are at the other end of the country you must visit.

4,5,....

I am really concerned about the PI option to be honest.

Thanks. Nice suggestions. We are thinking to do some of these. This psycho-analysis technique sounds a much cheaper option to find about her and family :). Could you please throw in more, I could not think of more. We would really like to know about two more things, one is their Islamic AKHLAQ and other if they are practicing Muslims or just active in Ramadhan and Muharrams. Also if they pay khums or not?

Those of us who have seen women from Pakistan, Iran, ME, could resonate with me, but here in the West, whatever happened to the "haya" in the eyes of our girls? Even hijabis are little shameless. Hard to explain but those who know what I'm talking about, would get it.

[kadhim]

icewizard,

That is much too sensible. (Well, I'd probably draw the line at sharing a bed, but still.)

As such, you should know that it would never fly in the community.

[Waiting for HIM]

hey it is forbidden to spy in islam.

Not for the purpose of marriage. Even backbiting, gheebat becomes mustahib in certain questions of marriage. For example if I ask you if you know so and so, and you know her major faults (like major sins), it is not gheeba that you tell me this. For marriage, complete disclosure and total transparency could go a long way.

We know we are not marrying in the family of Ahlulbait (as), so obviously we all would have our shortcomings, we just want to make sure nothing pops up later which is going to corrupt our future generations.

[kadhim]

^bro how would you react if you found out your wife to be and her family dug into your 20 something years of history lol

She would become my former wife-to-be. I would take it as a sign of mental instability in the family and run in the opposite direction.

[Rohani]

can you provide a hadith so i can accept that it becomes permissible in such a circumstance?

Not for the purpose of marriage. Even backbiting, gheebat becomes mustahib in certain questions of marriage. For example if I ask you if you know so and so, and you know her major faults (like major sins), it is not gheeba that you tell me this. For marriage, complete disclosure and total transparency could go a long way.

We know we are not marrying in the family of Ahlulbait (as), so obviously we all would have our shortcomings, we just want to make sure nothing pops up later which is going to corrupt our future generations.

Edited September 14, 2011 by AlMuttaqi

[kadhim]

Not for the purpose of marriage. Even backbiting, gheebat becomes mustahib in certain questions of marriage. For example if I ask you if you know so and so, and you know her major faults (like major sins), it is not gheeba that you tell me this. For marriage, complete disclosure and total transparency could go a long way.

We know we are not marrying in the family of Ahlulbait (as), so obviously we all would have our shortcomings, we just want to make sure nothing pops up later which is going to corrupt our future generations.

No, you're taking a real idea and distorting it out of recognition. You can't start a relationship of trust in the manner described.

[Waiting for HIM]

can you provide a sahih hadith so i can accept that it becomes permissible in such a circumstance?

Ask an alim or read a book on spouse selection. Do not have written reference but have anecdotal evidence. But could you please leave it for another topic. I really want sc members to give me advice on the topic and not go tangent on the discussion.

Thanks for your question though, a perfectly fine query..

Edited September 14, 2011 by Waiting for HIM

[Rohani]

She would become my former wife-to-be. I would take it as a sign of mental instability in the family and run in the opposite direction.

the imam (as) gave us the right advise because sometimes even people may make mistakes if someone looks into their say criminal records or something and find such a thing would not be very forgiving while that person had repented and changed his or her life around, so by saying "if you marry a woman for her wealth her wealth will depart form you and if you marry for her beauty you will not find in her anything you like, marry for faith" (narration off my head) anyways Imam (as) advised us for the best. it looks messed up to pry into ones history the wife will likely find out much anyways on her own right? i would be opened to my wife but there are things that are not for family members and in a stage when people will stop a perfectly good marriage be

for it could happen.

Ask an alim or read a book on spouse selection. Do not have written reference but have anecdotal evidence. But could you please leave it for another topic. I really want sc members to give me advice on the topic and not go tangent on the discussion.

Thanks for your question though, a perfectly fine query..

you should find that and show that to me or someone just in case your about to commit a potential sin if that is weak or can be interpreted as being against the qu'ran. and so insha Allah please look for it when you have time and start a topic and let me know. and as you ask.

Edited September 14, 2011 by AlMuttaqi

[Haji 2003]

Thanks. Nice suggestions. We are thinking to do some of these. This psycho-analysis technique sounds a much cheaper option to find about her and family :). Could you please throw in more, I could not think of more. We would really like to know about two more things, one is their Islamic AKHLAQ and other if they are practicing Muslims or just active in Ramadhan and Muharrams. Also if they pay khums or not? Those of us who have seen women from Pakistan, Iran, ME, could resonate with me, but here in the West, whatever happened to the "haya" in the eyes of our girls? Even hijabis are little shameless. Hard to explain but those who know what I'm talking about, would get it.

You are at risk of coming across as being too adversarial - is your daughter good enough for us? - and dare I say smug or even a family that wants to hang onto an unmarried male for as long as possible. I know aunties who have been like this and the son ends up marrying a kaffir.

This can't be a process that just involves the interrogation of the potential bride. The approach I suggested above requires a fair amount of subtlety to be pulled off.

This has to be a mutual exercise in assessing compatibility. That's why the questions involve give and take. You have to disclose about your family in order to have them disclose about theirs. That's a bit clinical, but in a natural conversation that is what happens.

You show them pics about when you went on ziarat. That should be a stimulus for them to talk about their visits. If you just get silence, then no problem, perhaps they never found the time. You show them family pics, amongst the collection is the milad to celebrate your dude's finishing the Qu'ran. If that passes by without comment, then again no problem, but the jigsaw is getting filled in. Albums are good, because they cover all aspects of family life. If your entire focus is religion then you may be presenting a slanted view of yourselves (unless of course you are like that).

Bear in mind that while you may consider your family to be on the siratulmustaqeem, they may see you as being unsufferably holy and far too religious, perhaps even looney tunes. But again that is no problem all you are looking for is compatibility.

[Waiting for HIM]

Bear in mind that while you may consider your family to be on the siratulmustaqeem, they may see you as being unsufferably holy and far too religious, perhaps even looney tunes. But again that is no problem all you are looking for is compatibility.

Naah, we are definitely no loony tunes :) but I like the pun in it. And yes, I've heard this insufferably holy thing too, and only a person living in Qum and Najaf can afford to marry an ayatullah so agreed there too. When someone marry, it should also be for the diversity as well. A woman coming from a different home would bring her own good things she picked up from her influencers.

That's why I say I liked your "under the cover" approach but also would not like to let hide anything major under the carpet.

Here are the major concerns we have (others may have too living in Western influenced cultures):

1. Islamic akhlaq

2. Continuous Islamic observance, not seasonal

3. Brought up on halal food literally and through mode of earning, and giving of khums etc

4. No major skeletons in the closet (a boy friend, a love affair, or anything like major sin such as drugs etc)

More suggestions welcome. I guess we'll have to drop the private investigator idea after all.

[Waiting for HIM]

Ok some of these were just shot down by elders in the family. Most of those look descent to others seems coming from Haji2003.

Thanks...

[dan_rafi]

We are doing the bottom three. How do you go by doing #1 in your list legally? It is a good idea though.

Well, you would simply ask the guy for these.

[Gypsy]

(salam)

I guess you get in touch with the community that he is living in. See the Islamic Center/Mosque that they go to. Generally that is the first step. Sometimes people also have common relatives (your uncle's best friend is his cousin neighbor).

The most important thing to remember is you not marrying the whole family but one of the members of the family. So focus more on the candidate.

Not for the purpose of marriage. Even backbiting, gheebat becomes mustahib in certain questions of marriage. For example if I ask you if you know so and so, and you know her major faults (like major sins), it is not gheeba that you tell me this. For marriage, complete disclosure and total transparency could go a long way.

We know we are not marrying in the family of Ahlulbait (as), so obviously we all would have our shortcomings, we just want to make sure nothing pops up later which is going to corrupt our future generations.

You should also consider that people who committed sins could seek forgiveness from Allah swt. And Allah swt is merciful.

Secondly, remember that you cannot predict a happy/good marriage. I know couples whose marriage didn’t last. One was a love marriage and another arranged. The couples seem perfectly compatible before marriage. And you would think that their marriage would last until the end but nope. It didn’t last. :no:

[AbuHope]

1. Review and analyze his last 6 months bank & credit card statements - see what he's spending his $$ on.

2. Request offical univeristy transcripts. Run local, state, and national civil and criminal record check.

2. Spend 1-2 months with him (talk on the phone, email, chat, etc.).

3. Talk to his friends and co-workers.

The CIA called, they want to have a chat with you.

Infact, the OP's mindset could come in handy for the Mossad too. Give em a call. I heard they pay fairly well.

Jeez.

[Abu Hadi]

Salams,

To be honest, I wouldn't delegate the responsibility of 'vetting' or background checking your potential spouse to anyone except yourself.

You will be accountable before Allah(s.w.a) for your decision and they won't be. Also, you will be the one who will primarily suffer or be happy

as the result of your decision. Your decision will affect them in a secondary way, at most.

I would (and was) very up front and honest with her. I would ask her if she believes and accepts in her heart 100% that there in no God besides Allah(s.w.a) and that Prophet Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and Ali ibn Abi Talib is the leader of all the Muslims after Prophet Muhammad and Imam Al Asr (Imam Mehdi) is our Imam. Then I would do a quick background check of that statment to see if her life reflects those beliefs, at least openly and at least that nothing that she does blatently contradicts those beliefs.

For example, if she accepts those statements and then doesn't wear hijab (outer hijab) or acts indecently, flirts with men openly so that her friends tell you that she does this then I would call it off right away. Also, if she says that she believes in those things but she doesn't do salat, sawn, hajj (if it is wajib on her) , khums, zakat (again if it is wajib for her). If I do as much background checks on these issues as I can by asking her friends, associates at work, etc, and find those things to be true based on what she has told me she believes, then I know her beliefs are correct and her actions are consistent with her beliefs (at least on the surface, apparent level). Then I would marry her and not prolong the background process for months or years. There are no guarantees in marriage even if you do a thorough background check because some women are very good at hiding things.

The only thing you can do is what they call in English 'due diligence' and pray to Allah(s.w.a) that she is honest and sincere.

[Waiting for HIM]

Thank you brother Abu Hadi. I also did not want to take it as far as getting the official security clearance procedure. :)

A quick but thorough check in eiman, backed by practices, and Islamic akhlaq would do.

Thanks.

[Forgotten]

Well if the basics are a good fit the best way to know would be to fly over and see them for yourselves. Word of mouth only goes so far.

Also maybe adding the person or family members on Facebook will help too. It's like a window into people's lives.