Encouraging Haram And Doing Haram For Others

[Aryan Warrior]

Something i've been wondering which I know many muslims do:

1) Does encouraging haram while believing it is haram such as selling alcohol or telling a girl to dress a more revealing way or telling other to eat haram meat make the person a big sinner or rather a kaffir?

2) If they are encouraging haram while believing it is haram to someone who is not a muslim and their religion allows it, would it still be sinful?

3) Does doing something haram for someone else make you a big sinner or someone who is involved in Minor Shirk such as out of peer pressue drinking alcohol, or going to a restaurant where they only have haram meat to eat with a friend and the frined encourages you to eat it, or not praying because of how you don't want to be seen by people.

4)Does Kufr when one doesn't believe in God and does Major Shirk only occur when one believes there is more than one God?

Thanks

[Replicant]

Something i've been wondering which I know many muslims do:

1) Does encouraging haram while believing it is haram such as selling alcohol or telling a girl to dress a more revealing way or telling other to eat haram meat make the person a big sinner or rather a kaffir?

2) If they are encouraging haram while believing it is haram to someone who is not a muslim and their religion allows it, would it still be sinful?

3) Does doing something haram for someone else make you a big sinner or someone who is involved in Minor Shirk such as out of peer pressue drinking alcohol, or going to a restaurant where they only have haram meat to eat with a friend and the frined encourages you to eat it, or not praying because of how you don't want to be seen by people.

4)Does Kufr when one doesn't believe in God and does Major Shirk only occur when one believes there is more than one God?

Thanks

1) Sinner. Committing sins doesn't make you a kafir. Many of us commit sins but you can't say we have left Islam. There might be some sins that make you a kafir. For example, the sin of Shimr (la) killing Imam Hussain (as) must have made him leave the fold of Islam.

2) Not sure, good question. I've heard that, for example, if someone has made you food that is haraam, you're allowed to give it to someone who does it eat it. But I would confirm that.

3) Again, it's a sin, just as minor shirk is also a sin. In reality, every sin can be called shirk because Quran says "have they taken their desires to be their Lord?".

4) Kufr is rejecting any of the fundamentals in the belief system of Islam. Major shirk is setting up partners to God by worshipping them. It can also include things like giving God an image (which is limiting God).

Edited September 13, 2011 by Replicant

[Aryan Warrior]

1) Sinner. Committing sins doesn't make you a kafir. Many of us commit sins but you can't say we have left Islam. There might be some sins that make you a kafir. For example, the sin of Shimr (la) killing Imam Hussain (as) must have made him leave the fold of Islam.

2) Not sure, good question. I've heard that, for example, if someone has made you food that is haraam, you're allowed to give it to someone who does it eat it. But I would confirm that.

3) Again, it's a sin, just as minor shirk is also a sin. In reality, every sin can be called shirk because Quran says "have they taken their desires to be their Lord?".

4) Kufr is rejecting any of the fundamentals in the belief system of Islam. Major shirk is setting up partners to God by worshipping them. It can also include things like giving God an image (which is limiting God).

1) I thought Yazid was already a kaffir(Munafiq) when he did that rather than becoming one right after. But yeah so one who encourages haram is just a sinner and not a kaffir, got it thanks :)

2) Alright, tell me once you know. My main question here is based on people Iknow who "cosplay" (yeah i'm a nerd and I do such things) and thus we give each other ideas. While not an issue with men but with women who aren't muslims I give some ideas to them of cosplaying a character from say a video game for example which they don't wear hijabs in those games and these girls don't wear them either.

3) Okay though I hear people always referring minor shirk as Riya, which including the prophet himself said too (though the terminology has confused me with what people have been telling me these days)

4) So Kufr is rejecting as in not-believing in the fundamentals such as in the Allah, Angels, Quran, Prophets, day of Judgment, and fate (in others words a person who has no iman right?)</p>

[Waiting for HIM]

It is haram to do haram and to help in haram irrespective of to Muslims or to non Muslims being Muslim or being non Muslim.

[Aryan Warrior]

It is haram to do haram and to help in haram irrespective of to Muslims or to non Muslims being Muslim or being non Muslim.

Alright I guess I should be more specific in what I mean. For example, i'm with a group of friends who aren't muslims and I suggest McDonalds. While McDonalds does have options for some halal food like Fish and Fries, I know for sure these guys would go after the haram meat. I suggested McDonalds with knowledge of what they would buy and therefore "encouraged". So would that be considered sinful even though It isn't haram to them cause of their religion?

[Waiting for HIM]

Not in this case since to them, it is ok to eat at McDonald. Had they been anywhere else, they would have eaten haram anyways except that if you took them to a local halal place. (btw the fish in McDonald is fried in oil where other Haram meat such as pork, beef, and chicken is fried, so technically it's fish is also haram).

Now as far as buying, selling, promoting, inviting, serving, (but not drinking yourself) alcohol, this is haram since in this case they also know alcohol is bad and makes them call the cab if they have drunk more than a couple. Same goes for gambling, prostitution, business in porn etc.

Absolute haram is when general human conscience tells you that it is wrong (immoral, unethical, dehumanizing) whether you are Muslim, non-Muslims or even atheist.

To be more sure, ask a local alim from your masjid.

Allah knows best.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Waiting for HIM

[Aryan Warrior]

Alright sounds good.

So just to make sure. If these people already do a haram action and I were to encourage them to this haram action by pointing to a another way of doing it, it would be fine as it would be done regardless by them (which the example I stated above is what this is referring to)

Alright, I also wanna make sure. I know women (not actually dating them or anything so don't judge me there) who dress in western clothing very commonly as the non-muslim westerners that they are. If I were to suggest (encourage) them to wear a different set of western clothing would it be fine as they would continue wearing western clothing anyways? and note thethe clothes wouldn't cover her hair and maybe show off some of her arm and shins much like many other western clothing young women of my generation wear.

But to summarize, as long as the the haram isn't really big such a alcohol or zina, it is fine if they do those things regularly anyways right? And out of curiousity, while I wouldn't ever encourage alcohol to anyone; if a Muslim were to encourage alcohol to someone while believing it is haram, he would just be a big sinner and not be commiting kufr and therefore not a kaffir right?

Thanks

[Abu Nur]

Something i've been wondering which I know many muslims do:

1) Does encouraging haram while believing it is haram such as selling alcohol or telling a girl to dress a more revealing way or telling other to eat haram meat make the person a big sinner or rather a kaffir?

2) If they are encouraging haram while believing it is haram to someone who is not a muslim and their religion allows it, would it still be sinful?

3) Does doing something haram for someone else make you a big sinner or someone who is involved in Minor Shirk such as out of peer pressue drinking alcohol, or going to a restaurant where they only have haram meat to eat with a friend and the frined encourages you to eat it, or not praying because of how you don't want to be seen by people.

4)Does Kufr when one doesn't believe in God and does Major Shirk only occur when one believes there is more than one God?

Thanks

Any low desires that an individual make will be shirk, in such a situation people will forget God and worship their desire instead. There are people who one time they worship God and other time their desire. Also there are people Who do not believe in God but still worship their desires.

Allah (SWT) said in Quran:

[Shakir 45:23] Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god, and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful?

[Aryan Warrior]

Any low desires that an individual make will be shirk, in such a situation people will forget God and worship their desire instead. There are people who one time they worship God and other time their desire. Also there are people Who do not believe in God but still worship their desires.

Allah (SWT) said in Quran:

[Shakir 45:23] Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god, and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful?

You know I have never, NEVER seen any scholar whatsoever call every sin in Islam as Shirk. This line seems more metaphorical than anything otherwise it would bring up the usual "associating partners" with Allah line and i'm sure some scholars would bring this up with the meaning of shirk as well.

[Aryan Warrior]

Actually further adding on, no one is associating partners to God in this verse but rather abandoning Allah for another "God" thus that statement looks more towards someone who has turned into a Kaffir in that they gave up their beliefs and denounced islam for their desires.

[Waiting for HIM]

Alright sounds good.

So just to make sure. If these people already do a haram action and I were to encourage them to this haram action by pointing to a another way of doing it, it would be fine as it would be done regardless by them (which the example I stated above is what this is referring to)

Alright, I also wanna make sure. I know women (not actually dating them or anything so don't judge me there) who dress in western clothing very commonly as the non-muslim westerners that they are. If I were to suggest (encourage) them to wear a different set of western clothing would it be fine as they would continue wearing western clothing anyways? and note thethe clothes wouldn't cover her hair and maybe show off some of her arm and shins much like many other western clothing young women of my generation wear.

But to summarize, as long as the the haram isn't really big such a alcohol or zina, it is fine if they do those things regularly anyways right? And out of curiousity, while I wouldn't ever encourage alcohol to anyone; if a Muslim were to encourage alcohol to someone while believing it is haram, he would just be a big sinner and not be commiting kufr and therefore not a kaffir right?

Thanks

This is going to be a little long so bear with me for a moment.

Here's the rule of thumb. If you invite them for something which is worst than what they are already doing, you are committing HARAM.

1. For example, there is this girl you know who does not do hijab and wears normal western clothes such as jeans, skirts etc (doesn't matter if she is Muslim or non Muslim), and she asks you to go shopping with her. You recommend her to wear these partly see through, partly lascivious, inviting kind of clothing which are bringing her closer to more sin than what she is already doing, you are committing haram.

2. Another one would be, you invite your friends to a party and purchase beer for them. Even though you do not drink, but purchasing beer for the party you invited at your place, for the normal consumers of alcohol is HARAM.

3. Another would be end of day Friday, you all are going for a "happy hour". Everybody asks for suggestions and you also suggest the famous Bar in the town. This is HARAM too. YOu could have suggested a nice restaurant.

Again, whenever you facilitate HARAM, you are committing haram.

Remember, it is made WAJIB for us Shia-Muslims to "invite towards good" and "stop from bad". Anything you do which helps people to do good irrespective of their cultural or belief system is rewarded. Anything you do to make it easier for them (or give approval to them) to do haram, even if it is their way of life, it is haram. In your behavior, in your subtle signals, in your day to day chatting, you should always keep this in mind. (for example, I've subtly made so much fun of alcohol that a bunch of my co-workers have quit drinking or they justify every time they mention alcohol by saying "oh well I just drink one can every two week" sort of thing.

Remember that you as a Muslim or an ethical person, once you join in on haram activities even though you are not taking part in it, you are giving this "signal of approval" to those who are doing bad. This is why it is HARAM to eat/drink on the table where alcohol is served. This is why Imam Ali (as) has said to be cautious of the company you keep, because on judgement day, you will be raised with the company you used to be with in the world.

Learn the difference between acquaintances (those who you have to work with, study with, at times share apartment with) AND friends (those who you befriend with, become intimate with, mingle with, feel at ease with, eat with, drink with, socialize with, would like to be with). This is a good measure in fact for you eiman, that examine yourself whose company you yearn for. If you yearn for a company of momineen, whether they have some flaws, or do you yearn for the company of those you work with or study with or play basketball with. If it is later, you need to re-examine and change.

Besides as a self respecting Muslim, and minding that Allah made us leaders, the trend setters, whenever I'm with my acquaintances, I make sure that I behave in a way that I set the trend and tone of meeting. I show my principals and stick to it and expect other to follow it. And trust me, no matter how bubbly westerners (non practicing Muslims) pretend to be, they are mentally very weak and it is easy to control their behavior. Wehn in my house, they follow my rules. When in my company, with some compromises, they follow my principals. This is the way every Muslim man or woman should behave in the society that people (in their subconscious) look for our approval.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Waiting for HIM

[Aryan Warrior]

This is going to be a little long so bear with me for a moment.

Here's the rule of thumb. If you invite them for something which is worst than what they are already doing, you are committing HARAM.

1. For example, there is this girl you know who does not do hijab and wears normal western clothes such as jeans, skirts etc (doesn't matter if she is Muslim or non Muslim), and she asks you to go shopping with her. You recommend her to wear these partly see through, partly lascivious, inviting kind of clothing which are bringing her closer to more sin than what she is already doing, you are committing haram.

2. Another one would be, you invite your friends to a party and purchase beer for them. Even though you do not drink, but purchasing beer for the party you invited at your place, for the normal consumers of alcohol is HARAM.

3. Another would be end of day Friday, you all are going for a "happy hour". Everybody asks for suggestions and you also suggest the famous Bar in the town. This is HARAM too. YOu could have suggested a nice restaurant.

Again, whenever you facilitate HARAM, you are committing haram.

Remember, it is made WAJIB for us Shia-Muslims to "invite towards good" and "stop from bad". Anything you do which helps people to do good irrespective of their cultural or belief system is rewarded. Anything you do to make it easier for them (or give approval to them) to do haram, even if it is their way of life, it is haram. In your behavior, in your subtle signals, in your day to day chatting, you should always keep this in mind. (for example, I've subtly made so much fun of alcohol that a bunch of my co-workers have quit drinking or they justify every time they mention alcohol by saying "oh well I just drink one can every two week" sort of thing.

Remember that you as a Muslim or an ethical person, once you join in on haram activities even though you are not taking part in it, you are giving this "signal of approval" to those who are doing bad. This is why it is HARAM to eat/drink on the table where alcohol is served. This is why Imam Ali (as) has said to be cautious of the company you keep, because on judgement day, you will be raised with the company you used to be with in the world.

Learn the difference between acquaintances (those who you have to work with, study with, at times share apartment with) AND friends (those who you befriend with, become intimate with, mingle with, feel at ease with, eat with, drink with, socialize with, would like to be with). This is a good measure in fact for you eiman, that examine yourself whose company you yearn for. If you yearn for a company of momineen, whether they have some flaws, or do you yearn for the company of those you work with or study with or play basketball with. If it is later, you need to re-examine and change.

Besides as a self respecting Muslim, and minding that Allah made us leaders, the trend setters, whenever I'm with my acquaintances, I make sure that I behave in a way that I set the trend and tone of meeting. I show my principals and stick to it and expect other to follow it. And trust me, no matter how bubbly westerners (non practicing Muslims) pretend to be, they are mentally very weak and it is easy to control their behavior. Wehn in my house, they follow my rules. When in my company, with some compromises, they follow my principals. This is the way every Muslim man or woman should behave in the society that people (in their subconscious) look for our approval.

O_O Mashallah, that must have been one of the most beautiful posts i've read on Shiachat. So basically what I have been doing for the most part is fine as I don't usually try to do worser stuff than they already do, and I don't encourage alcohol nor do I ever appear pleased on it (in fact I got into a massive argument with Christian friend of mine last year when he was trying to convince me to drink at a bar last year :/) but regardless I understand and thank you very much for this post :)

[Waiting for HIM]

One thing I forgot to mention, nothing above makes anyone kafir in the sense you are not rejected out of Islam.

BUT overall, kufr comes from the root which means rejection. So technically speaking anyone who rejects anything, even the size of an atom from Quran and teachings of Islam is considered the rejector. Take it what it is worth.

Overall our ulema do not call anyone who professes shahada, kafir.

[Aryan Warrior]

One thing I forgot to mention, nothing above makes anyone kafir in the sense you are not rejected out of Islam.

BUT overall, kufr comes from the root which means rejection. So technically speaking anyone who rejects anything, even the size of an atom from Quran and teachings of Islam is considered the rejector. Take it what it is worth.

Overall our ulema do not call anyone who professes shahada, kafir.

Alright that sounds good. I always get thrown off by sunnis as they seem to LOVE calling everyone a kaffir for some reason. But yeah it makes sense if someone who doesn't believe the words of the Quran, considering that one is of the six requirements of Iman which is the opposite of Kufr.

Overall dude thank you very much for confirming that :) Also in relation to the third question I asked about if one does haram for someone else such as drink alcohol under peer pressure and thus does it in order to make them happy while he knows it is against islam if he has committed minor shirk cause of how he displeased Allah for others there? Can I hear your view on it? (note I am not involved in alcohol so don't assume I do it)

[Waiting for HIM]

Don't know any thing about it. ask an alim :)

[Aryan Warrior]

Don't know any thing about it. ask an alim :)

Alright I shall and thank you very much brother :D

[Abu Nur]

You know I have never, NEVER seen any scholar whatsoever call every sin in Islam as Shirk. This line seems more metaphorical than anything otherwise it would bring up the usual "associating partners" with Allah line and i'm sure some scholars would bring this up with the meaning of shirk as well.

Actually further adding on, no one is associating partners to God in this verse but rather abandoning Allah for another "God" thus that statement looks more towards someone who has turned into a Kaffir in that they gave up their beliefs and denounced islam for their desires.

Nothing metaphorical with this verse. It is clear and correct with Islamic teaching. It is clearly described here that people who follow low desires are people who worship their desires thus these desires are their gods. The shirk comes when you Worship Allah and in the same time you worship these low desires.

It is shirk example if you think some lust things, so in such a time you will only "follow",adore,worship what your desire is telling you. But in the same time you have faith of Allah (SWT) and also you are in the state of overwhelming of desire, so you will forget Allah Remembrance and His teachings but you have not abandoning Him. So you will have actually Two or more Gods you follow. One time Allah and another time low desires.

There are five categories with Shirk, and this is called "Shirk with obedience".

You can listen this following lecture about these categories:

Edited September 15, 2011 by Zufa

[MysticKnight]

Nothing metaphorical with this verse. It is clear and correct with Islamic teaching. It is clearly described here that people who follow low desires are people who worship their desires thus these desires are their gods. The shirk comes when you Worship Allah and in the same time you worship these low desires.

It is shirk example if you think some lust things, so in such a time you will only "follow",adore,worship what your desire is telling you. But in the same time you have faith of Allah (SWT) and also you are in the state of overwhelming of desire, so you will forget Allah Remembrance and His teachings but you have not abandoning Him. So you will have actually Two or more Gods you follow. One time Allah and another time low desires.

There are five categories with Shirk, and this is called "Shirk with obedience".

You can listen this following lecture about these categories:

I think then this is giving a very loose meaning to "Worship" and "God". I think if you go by the importance people give to their desires, then it can be said people Worship Mohammad or Worship scholars or Worship Imams, by giving even more importance to Mohammad, etc.

What do you define as Worship? Worship usually refers to high reverence that is beyond that given to normal things and humans, but is at the ultimate level of reverence.

If people don't revere their desires like that, and Muslims have more reverence for Mohammad then people for their desires, then by definition it would mean Muslims Worship Mohammad.

I think there is problem when you play so loosely with the words Worship and God.

Edited September 15, 2011 by MysticKnight

[Lanatin]

But mysticknight the duty of a muslim to follow the Holy prophet is solely argued on the basis that his teachings orginated from God, rather than himself. He was the channel, so there's no worship going on here.

[thenamelessone]

One thing I forgot to mention, nothing above makes anyone kafir in the sense you are not rejected out of Islam.

BUT overall, kufr comes from the root which means rejection. So technically speaking anyone who rejects anything, even the size of an atom from Quran and teachings of Islam is considered the rejector. Take it what it is worth.

Overall our ulema do not call anyone who professes shahada, kafir.

(bismillah)

(salam)

I would like to compliment you on some very good advices that you have given, and I pray you do not take offense but I wish to correct a couple points please.

The word Kafir has the root كفر and means to cover or hide something. In a religious sense it is someone who knows the truth as truth and doesnt follow it. There are many different types of Kufr. Saying the shahadda doesn't mean you can't commit kufr.

As a muslim or muslima we are unable to encourage anything that is haram. Haram is anything against the laws of Allah. If our freind who is a christian has a choice between working in a fast food establishment for a small hourly wage or an establishment in which large quantities of alcohol are being served for a larger hourly wage and the freind then asks you which job should he or she take then you must advise for the fast food establishment rather than the alcohol establishment. You can give the explaination as to why you offered advices against as being the same reasoning that Allah gave us laws against alcohol; it is a poison in which people loose all inhibitions and generally act inappropriately towards the opposite sex to the point where things such as rape is a distinct possibility. Never hide the truth concerning haram and halal, even to our christian freinds. Just be prepared to explain our beliefs in a well thought out logical manner, and encourage good behavior in others, also lead by example.

Edited September 15, 2011 by thenamelessone

[Abu Nur]

If people don't revere their desires like that, and Muslims have more reverence for Mohammad then people for their desires, then by definition it would mean Muslims Worship Mohammad.

It is God command to obey Muhammad, so it is not worshipping Muhammad, rather it is Worship God.

I think there is problem when you play so loosely with the words Worship and God.

I don't see any problem with these words.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Zufa

[habib e najjaar]

You know I have never, NEVER seen any scholar whatsoever call every sin in Islam as Shirk. This line seems more metaphorical than anything otherwise it would bring up the usual "associating partners" with Allah line and i'm sure some scholars would bring this up with the meaning of shirk as well.

You may find this interesting, as it is somehow related, on WHAT may amount to shirk.. http://inspiredtoservitude.blogspot.com/2011/06/kinds-of-worship.html

O_O Mashallah, that must have been one of the most beautiful posts i've read on Shiachat. So basically what I have been doing for the most part is fine as I don't usually try to do worser stuff than they already do, and I don't encourage alcohol nor do I ever appear pleased on it (in fact I got into a massive argument with Christian friend of mine last year when he was trying to convince me to drink at a bar last year :/) but regardless I understand and thank you very much for this post :)

Sorry if I misunderstood this statement.. did you mean to say you were at a bar but not drinking, or that your friend was trying to convince you to go to a bar and drink? :unsure: If it is the former, it is wrong to even sit in the company of alcohol drinkers, so a bar is a total NO go zone, even for a glass of water. If its the latter (insha'Allah), then may Allah (swt) keep you on His path and protect you from the whisperings of shaytan,whichever form they take (e.g a friend encouraging you to do munkar).

(wasalam)

[Aryan Warrior]

You may find this interesting, as it is somehow related, on WHAT may amount to shirk.. http://inspiredtoser...of-worship.html

Sorry if I misunderstood this statement.. did you mean to say you were at a bar but not drinking, or that your friend was trying to convince you to go to a bar and drink? :unsure: If it is the former, it is wrong to even sit in the company of alcohol drinkers, so a bar is a total NO go zone, even for a glass of water. If its the latter (insha'Allah), then may Allah (swt) keep you on His path and protect you from the whisperings of shaytan,whichever form they take (e.g a friend encouraging you to do munkar).

(wasalam)

To the first one about shirk, it may be related but regular sins wouldn't count as minor shirk and would be simply sins. I've asked multiple scholars of islam and not one of them would label a regular sin as a minor shirk.

As for the bar thing, yes I did go to a bar which was a while back and haven't went to one since. I didn't drink but the guy was trying to make me drink but I refused it to the very end. Though I know it isn't a good thing to go to a bar but can I see a verse that declares it a sin?

[thenamelessone]

To the first one about shirk, it may be related but regular sins wouldn't count as minor shirk and would be simply sins. I've asked multiple scholars of islam and not one of them would label a regular sin as a minor shirk.

As for the bar thing, yes I did go to a bar which was a while back and haven't went to one since. I didn't drink but the guy was trying to make me drink but I refused it to the very end. Though I know it isn't a good thing to go to a bar but can I see a verse that declares it a sin?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Say to the believing, men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty. O you believers! Turn you all together towards Allah that you may attain success" (24:30-31)

http://www.thebackbar.com/pictures/2006/

Are your eyes glued to the floor during your entire stay?

O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful. (5:90-91)

Here you are commanded to avoid any type of intoxicant. Key word here is avoid, this is saying more than just dont drink alcohol, this is saying dont be in its presence, don't allow the chance of temptation in the first place.

"O you who believe, follow not the footsteps of the devil" (24:21).

Here you are told not to follow the shaytan.

[Such believers are] the repentant, the worshippers, the praisers [of Allah ], the travelers [for His cause], those who bow and prostrate [in prayer], those who enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong, and those who observe the limits [set by] Allah . And give good tidings to the believers.

We have a duty to set the example for those who are ignorant of the truth, in going to a bar you are saying this type of behavior is acceptable. Not everyone in the bar knows your not drinking, but everyone in the bar may guess at your religion especially if you are from a foreign country. The freinds of the person you went drinking with might be told by him that he and you had a great time at the bar friday night. The part about you not drinking might never be mentioned, therefore encouraging others that this behavior is approved of in Islam.

When they ignored the warnings given to them, We rescued those who used to forbid wrong and visited the wrong-doers with a grievous penalty for the sins they used to commit." (7:165)

In the past Allah has granted reprieve to those who forbid the wrong, in action as well as word. There is more than one thing that is haram about a bar. Are you saying through your action that this is wrong when you join them? Or are you only saying it with your tongue.

The desert Arabs‑say: "We believe" : Say (unto them): "You believed not; rather say "we accepted Islam" be­cause the Faith has not yet entered your hearts ". (Qur’an, 49:14)

Let not the believers take the disbelievers as their friends rather than the believers; whoso shall do this then he has no relation with Allah except when you have to guard Yourselves against them for fear from them; but Allah cau­tions you of Himself for unto Allah is the end of your jour­ney. Say, whether you conceal what is in your hearts or manifest it, Allah knows it; and He knows all that is in the heavens and all that is‑in the earth; and verily Allah has power over all things. (Qur’an, 3;28‑29.)

No Further comment is needed The words of Allah speak for themselves.

[Shia_Debater]

1) I thought Yazid was already a kaffir(Munafiq) when he did that rather than becoming one right after. But yeah so one who encourages haram is just a sinner and not a kaffir, got it thanks :)

2) Alright, tell me once you know. My main question here is based on people Iknow who "cosplay" (yeah i'm a nerd and I do such things) and thus we give each other ideas. While not an issue with men but with women who aren't muslims I give some ideas to them of cosplaying a character from say a video game for example which they don't wear hijabs in those games and these girls don't wear them either.

3) Okay though I hear people always referring minor shirk as Riya, which including the prophet himself said too (though the terminology has confused me with what people have been telling me these days)

4) So Kufr is rejecting as in not-believing in the fundamentals such as in the Allah, Angels, Quran, Prophets, day of Judgment, and fate (in others words a person who has no iman right?)</p>

(salam)

Can I just ask, by fate do you mean pre-destination?

You seem to have stated the sunni fundamentals.

These are the Shia fundamentals

Principles

Tawhīd (believing Allah (swt) is one)

‘Adalah (believing that Allah (swt) is just)

Nubuwwah (believing in the Prophets of Allah (swt) and that Prophet Muhammed (saww) is the last and final messenger of Allah (swt))

Imāmah (believing in the 12 Imams (as) and them being; Imam Ali, Imam Hassan, Imam Hussein, Imam Zainul Abidin, Imam Muhammed al-Baqir, Imam Jafar as-Sadiq, Imam Musa al-Kadhim, Imam Ali al-Ridha, Imam Muhammed at-Taqi, Imam Ali al-Hadi, Imam Hassan al-Askari, Imam al-Mahdi (peace be upon all of them))

Qiyamah (believing in Judgement day)

(I just gave brief descriptions of each one, click on this link to find out in depth about each principle: Principles

(wasalam)

Edited September 23, 2011 by Shia_Debater