Help With Answering Back To A Sunni Who Hates Shia

[Aliya 16]

On another forum I received this reply from a sunni:

"Not when these differences involve making du'aa to other than Allah.

There are many times where differences simply cannot be accepted. We cannot for example agree with the extremists of the Shi'a who claim that the Qur'an is incomplete and there is a hidden 'Qur'an of Fatimah', or those who say Jibreel betrayed Allah and went to Muhammad instead of 'Ali to grant him Prophethood, or those who make du'aa to 'Ali, or those who cut their children and soak them in blood on 'Ashura.

I am sure that if you do not believe these above things, that we cannot just smile and get along and accept these differences. If we accept these, really what's stopping us from accepting the differences of the Jews and Christians?"

This person clearly does not know what they are talking about. Wonder if I can get some help in replying to this person, without being rude or anything but more to educate him. Any help appreciated.

Thank

[Ali H Syed]

On another forum I received this reply from a sunni:

"Not when these differences involve making du'aa to other than Allah.

There are many times where differences simply cannot be accepted. We cannot for example agree with the extremists of the Shi'a who claim that the Qur'an is incomplete and there is a hidden 'Qur'an of Fatimah', or those who say Jibreel betrayed Allah and went to Muhammad instead of 'Ali to grant him Prophethood, or those who make du'aa to 'Ali, or those who cut their children and soak them in blood on 'Ashura.

I am sure that if you do not believe these above things, that we cannot just smile and get along and accept these differences. If we accept these, really what's stopping us from accepting the differences of the Jews and Christians?"

This person clearly does not know what they are talking about. Wonder if I can get some help in replying to this person, without being rude or anything but more to educate him. Any help appreciated.

Thank

firstly by the way he makes claims against shia, he doesnt know what hes talking about, this is mosque gossip as i call it but lets break it down

"Not when these differences involve making du'aa to other than Allah.

Duas can come from Allah for recitiation, and every dua starts with (bismillah) , making dua for the re appereance of imam mahdi as for example, let me guess it is wrong in their eyes? but making dua saying please Allah guide those who curse the caliphate is legitimate, what a pathetic point this man has made.

We cannot for example agree with the extremists of the Shi'a who claim that the Qur'an is incomplete and there is a hidden 'Qur'an of Fatimah'

now to this, we shia do not believe in this at all, this is a sunni/wahabi misconception of us, we believe imam mahdi as, will come with the correct explanation of every worse of the quran, the quran is the same, but the correct message and all the truth it holds will be revealed. for example a single verse, what is written can be read and interpreted, but we have hadith saying a single verse can have 70 levels of interpretation!

or those who say Jibreel betrayed Allah and went to Muhammad instead of 'Ali to grant him Prophethood

this silly statement is believed by under 1% of so called shia, and they are repeatedly told to come away from this belief.

or those who make du'aa to 'Ali

so by this analysis we cannot make dua to the holy prophet saaw? we can only make dua to Allah? even those the holy imams as, and the holy prophet saaw, where allahs messengers and man kinds guide, allahs representatives.. the fact that you do not make dua to them or include them in your dua, saddens me

or those who cut their children and soak them in blood on 'Ashura.

im yet to see a mother or father, slice the head of a child and "soak" them in blood, as you have clearly not heard, our iyatullahs and mohmin condemn zanjeer, and say it shouldnt be practiced, however mattham is allowed, and even if they are to do zanjeer and slight blood comes out, im talking little drops, i brush my teeth and my gums some times bleed, is that haraam now? childish points once again. and out of love of our imam as, what an honour it is to commemorate ashura! mah Allah guide you!

I am sure that if you do not believe these above things, that we cannot just smile and get along and accept these differences. If we accept these, really what's stopping us from accepting the differences of the Jews and Christians?"

funny enough, when imam mahdi as returns alot of christians and jews will accept the final message, and authordox christians have more faith in my opinion than saudi wahabs,

(bismillah)

[alimohamad40]

making Doaa (calling) to other than god!! what type of calling? we always call eachother for help there is no problem with that but the problem is when people call for a human to do things which only god can do

We call on the good humans to pray for us and ask god to forgive us because their call is answered by god so we make them a waseela (tool) to god

this procedure is prescribed by the quraan as the sons of Jacob called their father to ask god for forgiveness.

yes there are people who are counted on us who deviated and they describe the humans by the descriptions which are exclusive to god and that involves shirk but the other side (the wahabies and thier imam ibn taymyah and the hanbalies in general) they do the opposite and describe god by the attributes of humans (which is also shirk)

all forms of shirk are rejected and one must see the shirk in his own mathhab before pointing fingers at others

Those who claim the quran is incomplete with evidence are no different than those who claim the torat is incomplete again with evidence

believing that the humans have distorted the quraan with good evidence to back that claim does not make the person out of the fold of islam and Tawheed , it does not effect Usool aldeen because there is no imitation of anything or any text in Usool aldeen. The Quraan is the text used as a constitution in life to derive the laws of Foroo3 aldeen

therefore such person will remain muwahid and will still believe in the prophets and their Isma then they are still under Islam

gabrial betrayed god (Astaghfirullah) is a false claim which was made by one small group called " Alghurabyah" which has been extinct for 100s of years and this belief does not have any existence in the shia school and hence attributing it to them is a false claim

cutting ones self and bloodshedding in ashura is an innovation that people made up due to emotions towards imam hussains tragic death and has nothing to do with religion.

yes the main difference is about tawheed and shirk

some people say we will see god on judgment day like in bukhari

and also ibn taymyah who says god is a body in his book " bayat talbees al jahmyah"

and that god shapes in the form of a hairless young man

and that god has weight when he gets angry his weight increases so the carriers of the throne feel that he got heavier on them and they hear noises made from the throne

if ibn taymyah imagines god like that and on the shia side you also have people that always remember the imams more than god and ask them to do things that only god can do and love them more than god by focusing on them 90% and on god 10% then these people forgot the real aim which is god and focused on the tool (waseela) . Also some people attributing the sifaat of god to the imams !!! all of this shirk is not acceptable but to say that only the shia followers fall into shirk is unfair because if some shias fall into the shirk of attributing gods descriptions to the humans then some sunnies fall into attributing the descriptions of the humans to god

so one has to look at the shirk in his own mathab too before pointing fingers

Edited September 8, 2011 by alimohamad40

[pakistanyar]

No these guys are hopeless, but when you meet one in real life you ask him if he himself heard these things from Shia's. And ask him if there is any sense in learning about Islam from a Evangelical Christian pastor.

[Guest Monad]

Apologies as I am referring, cba to copy,paste as these are long topics. I am assuming this would also lead to tawssul?

please read the following tawassul <--- click it.

[Replicant]

"Silence is the best reply to a fool." - Imam Ali (as)

[Ameen]

On another forum I received this reply from a sunni:

"Not when these differences involve making du'aa to other than Allah.

There are many times where differences simply cannot be accepted. We cannot for example agree with the extremists of the Shi'a who claim that the Qur'an is incomplete and there is a hidden 'Qur'an of Fatimah', or those who say Jibreel betrayed Allah and went to Muhammad instead of 'Ali to grant him Prophethood, or those who make du'aa to 'Ali, or those who cut their children and soak them in blood on 'Ashura.

I am sure that if you do not believe these above things, that we cannot just smile and get along and accept these differences. If we accept these, really what's stopping us from accepting the differences of the Jews and Christians?"

This person clearly does not know what they are talking about. Wonder if I can get some help in replying to this person, without being rude or anything but more to educate him. Any help appreciated.

Thank

The best way to help him is to tell him that he has got it all wrong. If he is willing to listen that is. This is absolute rubbish and utter nonsense. If somebody still wants to believe it then there is not much one can do. Unless they are willing to listen.

[Ali H Syed]

"Silence is the best reply to a fool." - Imam Ali (as)

i really should of applied this before taking effort and time to write my response -.-

(bismillah)

[Aliya 16]

Thank you all for your replies. All very good replies. Have replied to him, but he clearly does not what to know the true. No point wasting time on people like that. Alhamdulliah can only try and can now say I have tried.

Thank you again.

Hanna

[Ali H Syed]

Thank you all for your replies. All very good replies. Have replied to him, but he clearly does not what to know the true. No point wasting time on people like that. Alhamdulliah can only try and can now say I have tried.

Thank you again.

Hanna

if they are unwilling to even consider your response, then dont waste your time, Allah guides who is willing to be guided

(bismillah)

[Gypsy]

This guy is obviously a moron.

There are many times where differences simply cannot be accepted. We cannot for example agree with the extremists of the Shi'a who claim that the Qur'an is incomplete and there is a hidden 'Qur'an of Fatimah', or those who say Jibreel betrayed Allah and went to Muhammad instead of 'Ali to grant him Prophethood, or those who make du'aa to 'Ali, or those who cut their children and soak them in blood on 'Ashura.

He has no clue about Shia Islam. He is just parroting lies.

You can give him the link to the al-Islam.org website and ask him to find a single page or a document where the Shias think Jibrael has betrayed Allah swt. And his other lies.

[Philip]

(salam)

At least the person isn't talking about Sayidna Jibreel (as) making a mistake or about Shia who whip themselves (that's usually what I get) .. So this person is better than most :) .. Or more intelligent anyway alhamduliLah

Tell him (maybe) that we don't do dua to any other than Allah SWT .. We simply ask others sometimes to support us with their dua to Allah SWT .. And the issue here is not a matter of tawheed, it's simply an issue of some people who believe we can address martyrs n perhaps also "dead" people (like prophet pbuhahp after badr? .. when addressing dead koffar in well.)

And based on Islamic clear fact that Allah tells us that martyrs are not dead)

Then u can go on saying that we understand that only Allah SWT can approve any dua and intercession, which does not stop us from asking brothers for help.

I am actually confused concerning this issue, and it is relatively new to me as well.

May Allah forgive our shortcomings.

(salam)

[___NAZM___]

(salam)

At least the person isn't talking about Sayidna Jibreel (as) making a mistake or about Shia who whip themselves (that's usually what I get) .. So this person is better than most :) .. Or more intelligent anyway alhamduliLah

Tell him (maybe) that we don't do dua to any other than Allah SWT .. We simply ask others sometimes to support us with their dua to Allah SWT .. And the issue here is not a matter of tawheed, it's simply an issue of some people who believe we can address martyrs n perhaps also "dead" people (like prophet pbuhahp after badr? .. when addressing dead koffar in well.)

And based on Islamic clear fact that Allah tells us that martyrs are not dead)

Then u can go on saying that we understand that only Allah SWT can approve any dua and intercession, which does not stop us from asking brothers for help.

I am actually confused concerning this issue, and it is relatively new to me as well.

May Allah forgive our shortcomings.

(salam)

go thru...... http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/tawassul/en/index.php

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/can_the_dead_hear/en/index.php