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In the Name of God بسم الله

Raised Muslims Have Begun To Irritate Me

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  • Veteran Member

you are right brother

unfortunately i too had this kind of experience

i was with my classmates-muslims-sunni

there was a debate about the topic umar bin al khattab

when i was trying to tell them the truth about him with authentic sources they interrupted me angrily and told me you were a kafir before and you have converted again to be a kafir (refering hindu to shia islam)

i felt very bad about that incident .....they were not trying to listen,learn,refute,debate in a decent manner and show me the true path iff i was wrong or something like that ..........

one guy even asked me "heyy do you have any jew friends or what"??

i think this behavior (diease) must change ........coz u know the fact that everybody(early reverts whom they respect) were converts when the religion was started by the holy prophet saww

so why not us?

we were not as lucky as u were to b born in a muslim family

understand the hardships that v came across and converted to the religion of peace

we deserve the same respect as born muslims if not more...

ya ali madad

labbaik ya hussain

If you have converted why have you listed your religion as 'hindu'?

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  • Veteran Member

it is formerly hindu in brackets brother

i put it because i am a revert to islam so to indicate that and if i do any mistake u guys could correct me and show me the true path

ya ali madad

labbaik ya hussain

At the time I made that post, it just said hindu. If you have converted, then you are as Muslim as anybody else, and it is not necessary for you to put hindu in brackets.

I would also advise you to hold off from all the 'ya ali madad' stuff until you have looked into it more, because it's dangerous territory. There have been a few recent threads on this. Try to read them with an unbiased mind:

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  • Advanced Member

I think that reverts have much more knowledge than most of the muslims who were born as one, because before a person reverts to islam they have got to research a lot to find the correct way, but for born-muslims they do as their parents tell them so (not saying that everybody is liken that, about 50% may be like that). I think if I was a revert I would be proud of myself to find the correct path out of the billion wrong paths...........

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  • Advanced Member

(salam)

I apologize that anyone had bad experiences, may Allah guide us all.

Imaam 'Ali (as) said "Don't judge the truth by the beliefs/behavior of the people, rather first come to know the truth, then you will recognize its followers."

However, in my experiences, I've never had anyone doubt my being a Muslim, not when I was Sunni nor as being Shi'a, in fact every Sunni and Shi'a I've met has always been happy to talk to me and curious and anxious to hear my story how I converted, and they say "You are better than us because you converted and have a clean record" astagfirullah, but I've never had these bad experiences mentioned by some people who converted, alhamdulilah.

Perhaps it depends on the community where you live. There are good and bad everywhere. We have to keep Sabr (patience) and Taqwa (god-awareness).

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

Salaam aleykom

It's really sad to hear this..and from several converts, not only one...and even more devastating for me is that some converts DO leave islam because of such behaviors!! not because unsatisfied by islam itself.. didn't these born muslims learn a lesson??

I didn't know/expect some/alot of converts to be treated this way..I don't understand fully why it is like that...but again, coming from "that" culture I can make a list of reasons..

But, in general, the 2 mosques we usually visit in 2 different countries...they have total respect for the converts..well, actually the one here in London, the lecturer and organizer of the islamic centre's activities is italien in origin I think..and just 2 weeks ago we had lectures given by american sheik, Sheikh Hamid? you all know him probably...and guest lecturers in this centre are mixed both converts and born muslims..maybe they do that for a purpose? to show that converts are gaining more knowledge and that we should notice that??

the other mosque, I have seen several female converts, but not so regularly...only once or twice, only this woman that have been married with an iraqi for soooooo many years, she is regular..but they were there..and people were curious..

there are converts that did convert for marriage and yess...I have even heard that some jews/israeli converted to islam for political reasons..but I thought you could notice who is interested in faith and who is not...if you go often to a mosque, what would that mean? your dress style, your talking style..how interested you are in the details of islamic law?? I mean all that show you if this is a true mo'men/ah...

ALL converts deserve respect, that goes for ALLLL human beings...but, the ones that you would like to spend more time with or have as a friend..you will see it!!! so I still don't understand this behavior..

maybe this will be as a relief..it's not PERSONAL...we are like that with each other..arabs dont like questioning, it doesn't matter the subject or the rival (yes they see you as a rival, for some reason...ok maybe exaggrating)..but you have converted because of your research, years of seeking and reading and analysing and comparing..I think you converts (the true converts hehe) automatically start with much more knowledge than us, knowledge that we cant acquire by imitating our parents..

In general (applies even for arabs)..if someone chooses the life style according to own research and knowledge and common sense..it wouldn't feel offending by someone questioning the details of that life style..I don't think that person will reply in a rude way..because he's sure about his thing..and will tell you exactly what you need to hear..facts and hadiths and other evidence that support his statement..

and learning from other cultures..that's a beautiful thing actually..ofcourse as you said within what islam allows us..why not? abit risky, you have to be careful what islam says in details..but in general..why not..it's like seeking knowledge in everything you experience, seeing the truth and beauty in everything you learned..

you ask why this tradition or that, and link it to the spiritual concepts we have in islam..see connectivity with other religions..this is actually an interesting issue..since we know that several religions have come from the same source so some conncections must be found there!! I'm thinking about my cousin once asked why we don't say prayers on table when its time to eat like christians. I told him we do say, bismillah..(he was a little boy) he said no no I mean really do it in group and thanks Allah for the food, I like it when my friend does it in thier home (christian friend)..then I sae the connection..we do that in our family but after eating food..so its the same thing..

a very simple example, but this is what people seek, ie the beauty of thanking Allah out loud in group..for something that is usually expected to be there..food

I don't know just a thought :) there..

I faced this also in my own little humble experience of conversion, I'm not a convert but during critical years I found myself questioning my culture and some islamic issues there...you can imagine what I have gone through in my own family and our community..well, now I don't care about the reactions I get because I found myself convinced about islam and shia and know what is stupid with our culture...so inshaAllah I'm on the right path.. I don't need these ignorant people/comments in my life and choose my friend, which are few wisely...

I ask Allah (swt) hidaya for all of us...really loging for improvements in muslims..

Sub7an Allah

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  • Veteran Member

This thread has raised valid points that I agree with.

However there are 2 sides to the same coin, and conversely I actually get irritated by the disposition or behaviour by some reverts believe it or not.

Just like some of the raised-Muslims mentioned here, not all are like.. however from my own experience, I have come across way too many converts who begin to look down on raised-Muslims.. and start to assume that they have a more authentic understanding of a "culture-free" Islam.. and assume raised-Muslims have too much cultural baggage, which may not neccessarily be true.

Many I have come across have this holier than thou attitude and think that they have a better understanding of Islam because they have researched and read up on the deen as opposed to it being spoon-fed to raised-Muslims.

Another thing that bothers me, is that they can criticize when raised-Muslims commit all these sins (which is fair enough as they should know better), yet these same converts had enough opportunity to indulge in these same sins themselves back in their jahiliya days, and all of a sudden somehow they can look down on those who do these sins.

It seems everyone is afraid to point out the criticisms of converts, yet only lay finger at raised-Muslims.. I see that there are two sides to this, and I'm not afraid to say it as it is, probably what some on here are thinking too but wont admit to.

Just my honest thoughts anyway.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed
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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

I agree there is certainly a disconnect between the ummah and the revert. One thing though, nobody is born Muslim. Everyone converts. I posed this to a scholar and you can imagine the reception it recieved. Nobody becomes a Muslim unless and until the pledge the Shahadah with conviction in their hearts and minds. So people may be raised in an Islamic culture or Muslim home but everybody reverts to islam and none are born Muslims. It doesn't matter what your father whispers in your ear, etc... Each one must turn towards Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

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  • 5 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

In all respect Reverts are much better than born muslims.

I am saying this because I am born muslim. These are the plateforms where reverts can have all types of discussions with out any problem.

But one things reverts should understand.

Just like all the creation of Allah is perfect. Scientists have spent thousands of years and even today they don't know all the things. Human genome project which is basic is recently completed. etc etc. Same is true with Quran and religion. All the things are not understandible so easily but we do understand some. Only Imams have their perfect knowledge. So there can't be answer to every question.

I salute to those people who are reverts. Such a courageous act.

May Allah reward you. Ameen.

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  • Basic Members

I had the same problem when I first reverted. It wasn't until recently (3 years later) that my reversion was accepted among the Muslim community where I live. It takes patience from both sides. Reverts tend to ask a lot of hard questions, some which only scholars can truly answer, but eventually it all works out. insha'Allah this becomes less of a problem.

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  • Advanced Member

Salam alaikum,

Please forgive me if I am repeating myself. I mistakenly hit some wrong key or button and so I don't know if I sent or erased my last post and I can't see it, since I'm too new for my replies to be posted yet.

Anyway, what I was trying to say was that I am sorry you have had these experiences. My own experience has been different in that many "born Muslims" have told me that I am better than them because I have had to work and study to come to Islam and they had it given to them. I don't find that particularly valid, since I struggle just as much to do what Allah (s.w.t) orders and against my nafs as anyone else does. However, I believe they mean well when they say it.

I always tell people who are interested in Islam that they should pay attention to its teachings and ideals and not to fallible human behavior. I was raised as a Christian, and there were many Christians who did not live up to the teachings of Jesus (a.s.), and I am sure that is true of other religions as well. Conversely, I have met many Muslims who live kind, quiet and exemplary lives, and I pray that Allah (s.w.t) will help us all to be more as He would have us be.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

Brother Abu Hadi had some interesting insight into this, we are all born Muslim then some are changed into other belief's by our parents etc... He even had the Quranic proof to back this position. I unsually take a different approach. I tend to upset "born muslims" when I offer that nobody is Muslim until/unless they pledge the Shahadah with intent and conviction. Therefore just because the father whispers in your ear doesn't make you a Muslim it is a conscious decision on all. They may be from a Muslim land, raised in a Muslim family but each must come to Islam willingly.

Just the way I see it.

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  • Advanced Member

Salam. I know what you mean, i have stopped going to mosques i always say my prayers at home. Very occassionally i do go to a mosque (always a different one) but avoid getting to know people beyond the formal greeting. I just say may prayers in congregation and get the hell out of there. That's what i do, pray at home and everyday read from the Quran that really is my anchor and love in life. But i really stay away as much as possible from those fossiles (born Muslims) because otherwise i always end up in conflict because of their dogmatic adherence to their customs and traditions which has mostly nothing or at best very little to do with what is in the Quran. It's like the proverb; "If you want to loose your faith, than become friends with a priest". Likewise if you want to keep your faith avoid those self-proclaimed priests, and instead stay intact in yourself close to God and the Quran which is the best company there is

Edited by thabo
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Basic Members

sometimes it depends on what kind of community you live in. my community seems to be fascinated by converts. they're always asking questions in an admiring tone. im sorry if you're treated as a subordinate member of the community. i think that converts have stronger faith than those born into a religion; it takes strength to leave what you've grown up on. :D

I as a convert I have had and seen a lot of positives from born muslims. They are usually so happy for you to have come to Islam, and say that we who converted out of interest and faith are so brave. And they always want to know why and how.

Apparently there was a bias against marrying converts in the past (because of their 'past') as well but in my old community they are now being actively sought out. They are perceived as pious because they chose to be.

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  • 2 months later...
  • Basic Members

This topic exists alright...

I was once visiting a dear friend of mine when two other ladies stopped by. On being introduced to them as converted, one of the born-muslim women (who doesn't wear hijab, I do) said to me 'Oh, so you DON'T know very much about Islam then?'

I was speechless, and my friend defended me about my studies etc. and I left it, but I thought, what a rude thing to say, to imply I was so IGNORANT that I converted to Islam?

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

This topic exists alright...

I was once visiting a dear friend of mine when two other ladies stopped by. On being introduced to them as converted, one of the born-muslim women (who doesn't wear hijab, I do) said to me 'Oh, so you DON'T know very much about Islam then?'

I was speechless, and my friend defended me about my studies etc. and I left it, but I thought, what a rude thing to say, to imply I was so IGNORANT that I converted to Islam?

Agreed, it's definitely something that I've experienced. I once called a mosque in the area that I had moved to because I wanted to get a certificate saying I had converted. We need it for hajj, umrah, etc. When I called, she refused to discuss it with me because "I could be anyone, I could walk in off the street and say I was Muslim and how did they know I was telling the truth?"

I mean seriously :( It doesn't hurt to be a bit more welcoming. After all, it'd be great if someone did walk in to a mosque off the street and want to be Muslim!!

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

I was born in Muslim family , stil i get annoyed by some people when they oppose your idea or what you believe in even ifits religious or political .......... any how we all get annoyed by such people so don't take it personal

salaam and hope you aren't offended by my comment but in regards to your video post, i don't understand why it's thought that a man-made HAARP cloud spotted in the Chilean sky is a sign of imam mahdi's arrival? the fact that it's sword shaped seems rather accidental instead of a true sign from god...

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  • Advanced Member

The Masjid I go to, I'm surrounded with convert Muslims. They have married in born Muslims and are almost always welcomed by born Muslims. Some converted Muslims are even giving Juma khutba and stuff. Some are respected due to their zeal in learning about Islam or learning Arabic. Some are respected because they are already more knowledgeable than others.

Now as far those who are feeling being treated differently, here are my observation (right or wrong):

1. People have the tendency to speak their native languages when they are with each other, may be just this factor have caused the feelings of looked down upon among native reverts.

2. Some reverts are coming from a cultured backgrounds like they are educated, articulate, well mannered, and are respected due to these reasons besides that they have converted.

3. Some converts have very low educational background, (or criminal background), do not know how to talk intelligently with people, do not have general manners and stuff and hence are hard to get along with.

I think just the three reasons above make it that people are treated differently by other people. It has nothing to do with if they converted or not, it is due to all that which is part of people's personalities. Biases like these exist in every society and should not worry anyone. Even among born Muslims, you will tend to see like minded people would be befriending with other like minded people and has nothing to do with their being Muslims or being Shia or being same race or color.

Hope this helps..

The above is a very nice and thoughtful analysis. As a matter of fact, after a certain group of people converted in Arabia, and claimed to believe, the Holy Prophet said that you only profess and belief has yet to enter your hearts. I think, belief is a slow process of jihad with Nafs, to refine one self into a cultured and inclusive human being. This requires real hard work, on several fronts, family, social, cultural, moral and economic. One needs a certain level of education, knowledge, study, culture, manners, morals and economic standing to finance and survive through hard times. For example, the virtue of patience is essential and takes slow and hard work. The skill of disagreeing politely or agreeably is also needed. The community should develop a consultative process to help people stuck in some difficult situation to overcome their obstacles.

Nahjal balagha is probably the only book that I know of, which talks on this topic in a few places. If you know of any other, please share with us.

That said,

Also, be careful of the false-flaggers and entrapment agents, to damage the social fabric of our societies so they can emaciate us economically and then swallow each one by one. One persistent scream that I hear from them is our high population, which incidentally, is lesser than either christian or confucian or other groups, and terribly backward in the fields of science and engineering as a whole and because of the fact that we are divided into many nationalities, language groups and ethnicities, and high cumulative poverty.

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  • 1 month later...
  • Basic Members

Agreed, it's definitely something that I've experienced. I once called a mosque in the area that I had moved to because I wanted to get a certificate saying I had converted. We need it for hajj, umrah, etc. When I called, she refused to discuss it with me because "I could be anyone, I could walk in off the street and say I was Muslim and how did they know I was telling the truth?"

I mean seriously :( It doesn't hurt to be a bit more welcoming. After all, it'd be great if someone did walk in to a mosque off the street and want to be Muslim!!

Oh, wow. So true. I know other converts who never knew about certificates, when mine was done after Shahada the Molana explained to me why I needed it because I didn't even know! Alhamdulillah it has been so useful for visas and even when I married, as it has both my birth and Muslim names.

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  • Advanced Member

I honestly fail to understand why anyone would treat a convert less than those who were born Muslims..

I ask myself...If i wasn't born a Muslim, would I have converted if I heard about it ?

So as a born Muslim, I can't help but admire those who converted and i can't imagine a born Muslim thinking otherwise.

I'm actually shocked that this topic exists

I totally agree with you, I fall in love with converts, I think they are inspiring :) I don't try to teach them anything unless they ask or assume they don't know something because I was actually taught by convert in Sunday school and she definitely knew more than some of the born and raised Muslim teachers (and all us students mA) And she had been Muslim for a much shorter while than any of us. if a convert asks a question, big deal, everyone starts from somewhere... I love being able to answer questions tho (:

Edited by Raafiki
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Veteran Member

Why don't you actually do something positive instead of whining?

why is ur nic titu mir ? if ur a shia ...wasnt he a wahabi fanatic who hated shias ?

I think one BIG problem with many new converts is that they try to culturally be arabic /persian and adopt other middle eastern cultures.They should not marry people who are from different cultures otherwise they will be culturally assimilated with them.They should be proud of their hindu , european, african hertiage and continue to follow their manners and customs as long as they dont violate islamic rules.That is the only way to solve this problem.

Selam brother

I sometimes also have the same feeling as you do. I became muslim about 1 and a half year ago and sometimes I ask something and the answer given has an undertone of beeing annoyed because I ask. I also met people that dont take me serious when they find out that I am muslim. Some people think that only arabic or turkish people can be muslim, specially when a german guy becomes shia they dont take it serious. Its sad...

Its very sad but dont let that discourage you brother, there is a hadith which says basically that converts to islam are better than even sahaba ( narrated by Abu jumah cant remember the reference its listed by Albani as sahih) and dont break your kinship ties with your german non-muslim relatives.

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This is a Hadith which I found in the Bab of doing good to your parents in al-Kafi, and I think that it is relevant.

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن خالد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن معاوية ابن وهب، عن زكريا بن إبراهيم قال: كنت نصرانيا فأسلمت وحججت فدخلت على أبي عبدالله عليه السلام فقلت: إني كنت على النصرانية وإني أسلمت فقال: وأي شئ رأيت في الاسلام؟ قلت: قول الله عزوجل: " ما كنت تدري ما الكتاب ولا الايمان ولكن جعلناه نورا نهدى به من نشاء " فقال: لقد هداك الله ثم قال: اللهم اهده ثلاثا سل عما شئت يابني فقلت: إن أبي وامي على النصرانية وأهل بيتي ; وامي مكوفة ابصر فأكون معهم وآكل في آنيتهم؟ فقال يأكلون لحم الخنزير؟ فقلت: لاولا يمسونه، فقال: لا بأس فانظر امك فبرها، فإذا ماتت فلا تكلها إلى غيرك، كن أنت الذي تقوم بشأنها ولا تخبرن أحدا أنك أتيتني حتى تأتيني بمنى إن شاء الله قال: فأتيته بمنى والناس حوله كأنه معلم صبيان، هذا يسأله وهذا يسأله، فلما قدمت الكوفة ألطفت لامي وكنت اطعمها وافلي ثوبها ورأسها و أخدمها فقالت لي: يا بني ماكنت تصنع بي هذا وأنت على ديني فما الذي أرى عنك منذها جرت فدخلت في الحنيفية؟ فقلت: رجل من ولد نبينا أمرني بهذا، فقالت: هذا الرجل هو نبي؟ فقلت: لا ولكنه ابن نبي، فقالت: با بني إن هذا نبي إن هذه وصايا الانبياء، فقلت: ياامه إنه ليس يكون بعد نبينا نبي ولكنه ابنه فقالت: يا بني دينك خير دين، اعرضه علي فعرضته عليها فدخلت في الاسلام وعلمتها، فصلت الظهر والعصر والمغرب والعشاء الآخرة، ثم عرض لها عارض في الليل، فقالت: يا بني أعد علي ما علمتني فأعدته عليها، فأقرت به وماتت، فلما أصبحت كان المسلمون الذين غسلوها وكنت أنا الذي صليت عليها ونزلت في قبرها

A number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Khalid from Ali b. al-Hakam from Muawiya b. Wahb from Zakariyya b. Ibrahim who said:

I was a christian then I converted, so I went to perform the Hajj, so I entered to meet Aba Abdillah عليه السلام, so I said to Him - I was a christian but have now converted to Islam, so He said: and what thing did you see in Islam (that has attracted you to it)? so I said: the words of Allah عزوجل - "And you [Muhammad] did not know the book, nor the faith, but we have made it a light unto which we guide whomsoever we wish", so He said: Indeed Allah has guided you, then He said: O Allah guide him (further) thrice, then He said: ask me what you want my son - So I said: my father and mother are still christians, and so are the people of my house, and my mother is blind, so do I remain with them?, and do I eat in their utensils? so He said: do they eat the meat of the pig? I said: they do not, nor do they touch it. He said: (then) there is no problem. And look after your mother, and do good to her, so when she dies do not let another one proceed you in her (right), and be the one who oversees the whole of her affair, and do not tell anyone that you came to meet me until you come to me again in Mina if Allah wills.

He (Zakariyya) said: so I went to meet him in Mina, and the people were around him as though he was a teacher of children (in their regard for Him), this one asks him, and that one asks him.

So when I returned to Kufah, I turned towards my mother, and took care of her, so I used to feed her with my hands, and wash her clothes and her head, and serve her. So she said to me: O my son - you did not do this for me when you were upon my religion, so what is this change that I see in you after you ran away and entered into the Hanafiyyah?

so I said to her: a person from the progeny of our prophet ordered me to do this, so she said: is this person a prophet? I said: no, but he is a son of the prophet, so she said to me: my son - surely this is a prophet, for (what he has told you) is from the teachings of the prophets, so I said: O my mother, there is no any other prophet after our prophet, but he is his son, so she said: O my son, your religion is the best of religions, declare it to me (i.e. its central premise - the Shahada), so I declared it to her, so she entered into Islam, and I taught it to her, so she prayed the Dhuhr (of that day) and the Asr and the Maghrib and the Final Isha, and I kept on declaring it for her throughout the night (i.e. the Shahada), so she said suddenly: O my son, repeat for me what you had taught me, so I repeated it for her, so she declared it and died, so when it was morning - it was the Muslims who washed her, and I was the one who prayed upon her, and entered her into her grave.

I say: All the Rijal of this Hadith are Thiqat, except for this Zakariyya b. Ibrahim for he is unknown, and this is the only narration narrated from him in our books, before he disappears, but I see nothing prohibiting us from accepting his wonderful witness.

Edited by Islamic Salvation
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  • Basic Members

You know, first thing that came to my mind while reading this thread was, it is Allah (SWT) whom we are trying to please, its impossible to please some people. It doesnt matter if someone doesnt like you or trust you because your a revert to Islam. You battle this with your own Character of how you handle it. I remember being a new muslim and being treated like I was a CIA agent, but not caring about these actions, I rather kept focus on the Character of Muhammad (SAW) and Ahlul Bayt (ra)... I thought to myself, I know They would accept me for whom I am. And in the end, thats all that matters to me. But I will say, this isnt the majority, Ive been accepted by some as a family member... Some of the most polite brothers and sisters ive ever been blessed to come across... Reverts need to focus on the positive in born muslims rather than the bad in a few... Inshallah

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Salam

Some of the best people I know were born Muslim, both converts and those born into Islam have issues that are often instilled into them by some source. It is a common thing among the majority of people to follow whatever it is they have with a devotion that is unjustified due to their lack of knowledge or understanding (common among Muslims, Atheists, 'Spiritualists', Christians, etc.). There are many people who were born into Islam who then act with disappointing hastiness in regards to converts, likewise I have seen many converts who have allowed the pressures from the surrounding Muslim brothers and sisters to push them in a direction of ambivalence towards important Islamic issues. They begin to stagnant, and they forget why they entered Islam in the first place, not to please others but to follow the Truth.

Alhamdulillah I have found few instances in my local community wherein I was refused due to my being a convert. However, I have experienced instances of severe ignorance or stubbornness, and it is only in remembering that I must leave those who wish to squander their intellect and free will on whatever is they're clinging to (blind adherence to doctrine, alcohol, etc.) so that I can serve Allah (swt) either through further learning to build yaqeen and akhlaq or through finding others that are as hungry for Truth. May Allah (swt) guide all those who ask for it.

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