Monogamy Clause In Marriage Contract

[worldpeace786]

Salaam,

Do you think it is a good idea for a man to accept a "no polygamy, no mutah" condition in a marriage contract?

The woman is being honest that she can't handle her husband doing these things, kind of like someone

being honest about their allergy to peanuts.

Someone told me such conditions are not allowed but that doesn't make sense to me.

If a woman marries a man on the condition that he never bring peanuts around her and he agrees, he is bound by the agreement.

Likewise

If a woman marries a man on the condition that he never do mut'ah or take a 2nd wife and he agrees, he is bound by the agreement.

However does such a condition not indicate a weakness in faith on the woman's part, as she is taking away a right from him that

Allah has given him?

[alimohamad40]

Salaam

There is a whole chapter in wasael alshia titled "If they make conditions or nathr that he will not marry again or marry from his right hand possessions that these conditions are not valid and one is not bound by them. "

Ask Mac isahac he actually translated this on their tashayu website

The idea is that our agreement with god overrides all other agreements

And conditions that prohibit the lawful of god are invalid because they are changing the religion

It's haraam to accept such conditions because you never know if in the future it might become wajib on you that you agreed to abandon your wajib

Also that you participated in the vicious war against the sunnah of the prophet

Edited September 8, 2011 by alimohamad40

[worldpeace786]

Thanks. I found them.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/marriage/mahr/invalid-conditions-in-the-marriage-contract

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/marriage/muta/desirability-of-doing-muta-even-if-one-has-vowed-not-to

[alimohamad40]

the clause that many scholars allowed is to divorce

but again they used it like a loophole because Allah always allows divorce even if the reasons are not good reasons

for example khul3 is if the woman doesn't have any good reason but she needs to compensate the dowry and damage and the man has to grant her divorce.

so many scholars told them its permissible to use the divorce boycott method to reject polygyny without telling them that they do commit a sin if they divorce for only that reason even though their divorce will be valid

they relied on the fact that the divorce is valid to say since its valid then its permissible

it could be said that any divorce is valid in itself but in majority of divorces it could be one side transgressing and that would imply sin

Edited September 9, 2011 by alimohamad40

[Gypsy]

(salam)

These are not loop holes alimohammed. Do you think the temporary nature of muta is a loop hole because there is no such thing as divorce?

Here are fatawa from marjas.

Women can stipulate conditions in her marriage contract. Men can either accept it or not. If they can't agree on this then maybe it is not such a good idea to get married with such person.

[kadhim]

(salam) These are not loop holes alimohammed. Do you think the temporary nature of muta is a loop hole because there is no such thing as divorce? Here are fatawa from marjas. Women can stipulate conditions in her marriage contract. Men can either accept it or not. If they can't agree on this then maybe it is not such a good idea to get married with such person.

Those are different conditions, Zareen. If you read carefully, you're basically reiterating alimohamed's point. The woman can request a condition giving her power of attorney for divorce, and then her husband taking a second wife could be invoked by her as an excuse for divorce.

But what is illegitimate as conditions go is to say as a condition in advance that polygamy or muta'a will not be allowed to the man. Illegitimate because it makes the halal haram; it puts two principles - legitimacy of polygamy and the need to follow agreements - in unnecessary conflict.

Whereas divorce, even divorce for bad, petty reasons, is Islamically legitimate, so giving the power of attorney is fine.

[Gypsy]

You are right in what you are saying. but I objected to him saying the following

the clause that many scholars allowed is to divorce

but again they used it like a loophole because Allah always allows divorce even if the reasons are not good reasons

Just because people can get divorce for trivial reason doesn't make this a loophole. Essentially what they are doing is transferring the right to seek a divorce to women because it is consider breaking the marital contract.

Even in the case of seeking trivial divorce, the man still hold the power to divorce his wife.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Zareen

[worldpeace786]

Talk about loopholes, I found this:

2469. * If a woman compromises her Mahr with her husband, on a condition that he will not marry another woman, it is obligatory upon him that he does not marry another woman, and that the wife should not claim her Mahr.

http://www.al-islam.org/laws/marriage2.html

I guess it all comes down to the fact that one can't impose polygyny on a woman. If she is not happy with the arrangement there is nothing you can do to force her to stay.

But why would any woman be happy in a polygynous relationship vs a monogamous relationship? In other words I am asking, why would a woman choose polygyny when monogamy is an option?

Is it a matter of polygyny with a man she really likes vs monogamy with a man she doesn't really like?

[ImAli]

Talk about loopholes, I found this:

2469. * If a woman compromises her Mahr with her husband, on a condition that he will not marry another woman, it is obligatory upon him that he does not marry another woman, and that the wife should not claim her Mahr.

http://www.al-islam..../marriage2.html

I guess it all comes down to the fact that one can't impose polygyny on a woman. If she is not happy with the arrangement there is nothing you can do to force her to stay.

But why would any woman be happy in a polygynous relationship vs a monogamous relationship? In other words I am asking, why would a woman choose polygyny when monogamy is an option?

Is it a matter of polygyny with a man she really likes vs monogamy with a man she doesn't really like?

You shouldn't ask that on here because it will turn into a conversation about how any woman who wishes to remain in a monogamous relationship is inherently evil.

[Ruq]

Having monogomy as part of your conditions for marriage is not the same as saying it is haram. Polygamy is not wajib, it is an opiton. I have the right to decide i prefer a monogomous relationship, it is the ideal if conditions are right for it as it creates greater safety and security for a family. Obviously a person wanting monogomous relationships get together with other people wanting monogomous relationships, if they agree there is nothing to be discussed.

[kadhim]

Having monogomy as part of your conditions for marriage is not the same as saying it is haram. Polygamy is not wajib, it is an opiton. I have the right to decide i prefer a monogomous relationship, it is the ideal if conditions are right for it as it creates greater safety and security for a family. Obviously a person wanting monogomous relationships get together with other people wanting monogomous relationships, if they agree there is nothing to be discussed.

The problem is the arrogance and shortsightedness of shutting the door in advance. We don't know what realities our communities will face in the future, and how we will change and evolve over time. What a person understands of love and relationships and commitment is different at the start of a relationship in youth from what it is years down the road. A situation is different in the textured nuance of concrete reality than we imagine in the black and white simplicity of our imaginations. This is why the greatest teachers of the faith emphasized that it is not legitimate to shut the door in advance. You get to a situation where the question becomes relevant, an evaluate then, in the light of a real, concrete, non-hypothetical reality.

Edited September 9, 2011 by kadhim

[JimJam]

But why would any woman be happy in a polygynous relationship vs a monogamous relationship? In other words I am asking, why would a woman choose polygyny when monogamy is an option?

It may be considered normal in their culture like here in Sindh so any women brought in that culture would not consider it unthinkable. The guy could be rich enough to take care of multiple women in a society were most people are poor so the women may give financial stability a greater priority over petty jealously.

[kadhim]

It may be considered normal in their culture like here in Sindh so any women brought in that culture would not consider it unthinkable. The guy could be rich enough to take care of multiple women in a society were most people are poor so the women may give financial stability a greater priority over petty jealously.

Not to mention, for the stay at home wife, the home can be a lonely place during the day. The companionship and friendship of a co-wife can alleviate this to a large extent.

[Gypsy]

Not to mention, for the stay at home wife, the home can be a lonely place during the day. The companionship and friendship of a co-wife can alleviate this to a large extent.

There is no requirement in Islam for the co-wives to stay in one house. In fact people don’t put co-wives in the same house. Islamicly there is no requirement to have co-wives to ease the loneliness or boredom. Most stays at home women are not lonely women. They have activities inside and outside of the house, kids, schools and other activities.

[kadhim]

You are very sensitive Zareen. It is a little arrogant to try to speak for your whole sisterhood.

[Gypsy]

It may be considered normal in their culture like here in Sindh so any women brought in that culture would not consider it unthinkable. The guy could be rich enough to take care of multiple women in a society were most people are poor so the women may give financial stability a greater priority over petty jealously.

It is not a requirement for rich men to marry all the unfortunate women/girl in the district. Rather if he is blessed with so much wealth then he can always set up schemes to help others get married. Are you aware that many youngsters (boys and men mostly) who are unmarried, and who has financial difficulty (or lack the resources) to get a wife because they are not in a good financial position?

[worldpeace786]

I think it would be pretty cool if every Muslim man had two wives. We would take over the world in 2 generations. I don't think Muslim women would cooperate. Maybe I'll move to Sindh.

[Gypsy]

You are very sensitive Zareen. It is a little arrogant to try to speak for your whole sisterhood.

I think you are the one who is sensitive here. Your idea to put all the co-wives in the same house is strange.

Even the Prophet had some problems with his multiple wives. That is the reality Kadhim whether you see it or not,

[JimJam]

It is not a requirement for rich men to marry all the unfortunate women/girl in the district. Rather if he is blessed with so much wealth then he can always set up schemes to help others get married. Are you aware that many youngsters (boys and men mostly) who are unmarried, and who has financial difficulty (or lack the resources) to get a wife because they are not in a good financial position?

The rich dude does not marry out of charity. He marries multiple women simply because he wants to. I have also seen poorer Sindhi guys also marry twice, its a bit of a status symbol thing

[ImAli]

I think you are the one who is sensitive here. Your idea to put all the co-wives in the same house is strange.

Even the Prophet had some problems with his multiple wives. That is the reality Kadhim whether you see it or not,

This is not the only one on here with this idea to put them all in the same house LOOOOL.

[kadhim]

I think you are the one who is sensitive here. Your idea to put all the co-wives in the same house is strange.

Even the Prophet had some problems with his multiple wives. That is the reality Kadhim whether you see it or not,

Strange? Where else do you propose putting the second one? Much simpler and more efficient to have everyone as one family under one roof.

[Ruq]

I dont doubt that attitudes towards polygamy can be very much dependant on circumstance, im sure if i'd of been in different circumstances with different expectations i could be happy in a polygamous situation, but as it is i can support myself and although i would like to have a baby in the next few years, i still married for love. Im not even suggesting that 'in love' is superior to not being 'in love', because 'in love' is a phenomenon that csn be very destructive for some people, but once it happens to you your kinda stuck. I think for plygamous marriages to work its better to not be in love and for it to be based on other more practical reasons.

[alimohamad40]

The fatwa above seems to be in contradiction with that chapter in wasael alshia

the chapter title goes like this :

Invalid conditions in the marriage contract

From Wasa'il ash-Shi`a in the book of marriage, chapters on the muhur (pl. mahr)

20 ـ باب أن من شرط لزوجته أن لا يتزوج عليها ولا يتسرى ولا يطلقها لم يلزم الشرط وإن جعل ذلك مهرها ، وكذا لو شرطت له أن لا تتزوج بعده ، ولو حلف أو نذر كل منهما ذلك لم ينعقد

20 – Chapter on that one who makes a condition for his spouse that he will not marry (another woman) upon her, and to not take a concubine, and to not divorce her, the condition does not adhere (that is, it is not binding or obligatory) even if he made that her mahr. And likewise if she made a condition of him that she not marry after him, even if each of them swore or made a nadhr to that, it is not confirmed (or, performed).

Ruqayah:

you previously said polygamy only works when you don't have LOVE its a strange observation on your behalf

i had two wives before and I loved them and they loved me and god says " we created love and mercy between you" which applies to everyone

you even said that imam ali stayed only with fatima because that was his only love marriage !!!!!

but you forgot that imam Ali married Ummulbaneen and along with her he married other women .. Does that mean he didn't love ummulbaneen?

Edited September 9, 2011 by alimohamad40

[Ruq]

The rich dude does not marry out of charity. He marries multiple women simply because he wants to. I have also seen poorer Sindhi guys also marry twice, its a bit of a status symbol thing

What is a good reason to marry multiple times nowadays? Because the reality is they either do it for lustful or pride/arrogance reasons, not to help the community or 'please God', lets get real.

[kadhim]

What is a good reason to marry multiple times nowadays? Because the reality is they either do it for lustful or pride/arrogance reasons, not to help the community or 'please God', lets get real.

If you're going to dismiss the answer in advance, why ask the question? Why marry a second? Because a lot of men (probably most, to be honest) have the ability to be genuinely interested in marriage with more than one woman at once. The financial and psychological capability of some of these men to handle two or more wives. The need of many women for husbands, women who are having trouble finding otherwise. And the willingness of some number of these women to be a co-wife.

[worldpeace786]

This is a great article showing that polygyny is natural and good for women:

http://www.psycholog...-are-polygamous

http://www.psycholog...fit-polygamy-an

I think the best thing is for a man to marry two consenting women at a time. This way they start their new lives together.

Edited September 9, 2011 by worldpeace786

[Gypsy]

Strange? Where else do you propose putting the second one? Much simpler and more efficient to have everyone as one family under one roof.

Simpler and efficient for whom? The man? And cheaper too I bet.

Still there is no Islamic requirement to force all the co-wives to live together.

The fatwa above seems to be in contradiction with that chapter in wasael alshia

the chapter title goes like this :

Invalid conditions in the marriage contract

From Wasa'il ash-Shi`a in the book of marriage, chapters on the muhur (pl. mahr)

20 ـ باب أن من شرط لزوجته أن لا يتزوج عليها ولا يتسرى ولا يطلقها لم يلزم الشرط وإن جعل ذلك مهرها ، وكذا لو شرطت له أن لا تتزوج بعده ، ولو حلف أو نذر كل منهما ذلك لم ينعقد

20 – Chapter on that one who makes a condition for his spouse that he will not marry (another woman) upon her, and to not take a concubine, and to not divorce her, the condition does not adhere (that is, it is not binding or obligatory) even if he made that her mahr. And likewise if she made a condition of him that she not marry after him, even if each of them swore or made a nadhr to that, it is not confirmed (or, performed).

This is not what the fatawa from marajas are about. While the women are limited to what she can and cannot say in her marital contract but she most certainly can

stipulate in the marital contract that she may have the power of attorney in divorcing herself from her husband.

[Ruq]

The financial and psychological capability of some of these men to handle two or more wives.

XD youre living in cloud cuckoo land, but thanks for the laugh.

[kadhim]

XD youre living in cloud cuckoo land, but thanks for the laugh.

Forgive me if you don't strike me as having any sort of authority in what men are or are not capable of.

[Ruq]

Forgive me if you don't strike me as having any sort of authority in what men are or are not capable of.

And what qualifications would a person need to carry such authority? If the only qualification necessary is to have a penis then no, i dont, but i do have other quite useful organs like eyes and ears, which are perhaps more valuable for the purposes of observation and information gathering.

[kadhim]

You're a very caustic individual. "Some men are capable, financially and psychologically for polygamy" is a very innocuous, uncontroversial statement, particularly for a Muslim. Yet you respond with so much venom and ridicule. It's an imbalanced response.

As a mod I am having to edit this. Personally speaking, I thought it was rather funny to be honest.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Haji 2003
Hurtful language

[Ruq]

O dear, someones feeling a little thin skinned it seems o.O I will over look such an inappropriate, unjustified, and simply nasty reply and move on. If youre unable to handle even the slightest, moderate opposition to your views without resorting to such irrational language you really shouldnt be posting in forums at all, for your own sake. Its a shame that in the eagerness of your unjustified attack you havent even attempted to address the point i made.

[Praetorius]

Why do the women in threads about Mutah and Polygamy always assume defensive positions as if someone has launched some anti-feminist bombshells onto their territory? Why is it so hard to accept that there are men who can handle polygamous marriages, as well as his wives living together quite harmoniously? The Prophet (pbuh) married more than 10 wives, and while some of them (obviously Aisha and co.) gave him a real hell as far as the relations among one other were concerned, most of them coexisted very happily and peacefully... What's the big problem?

Edited September 11, 2011 by Legio Invicta

[hubbe_hussein110]

(salam),

Listen dudes,

There's no point in starting a million threads in which sisters (feminists) are pushing their monogamy agendas while the men (mu3mins) are trying to revive the sunnah of the ahlul-bayt.To all the females crying here and ranting about polygamy, guess what! theres nothing you can do about it...deal with it. There's no such thing as intellectual discussions on this topic, polygamy is allowed, secret mutahs are allowed and none of them have to be disclosed to you by your husbands, so honestly deal with it, deal with islam, thats how it is. Stop crying already woow.

[King]

^^^ Word.