Question To Consider

[baradar_jackson]

Here is a message to the youth of Shiachat. There are a lot of fitnah debates going on right now about Usoolism and that other thing.

I think the proponents of the latter use their self-righteousness to their advantage; it is through their self-righteousness that they convince people that they are the purest followers of Islam and they are the most close to the ahlul bayt.

But whenever you wonder about whether or not this is the truth, all of you brothers and sisters (especially those of you who are young and perhaps a bit confused) should consider this: why, with respect to the issue of taqleed, khums, WF... are secularists and wannabes in agreement with each other?

The wannabes have some ahadith; but what do the secularists have to suggest that they are the pure followers of ahlul bayt?

Why are these two groups in agreement?

My take: they are both driven by the same motivation. Their motivation is arrogance and rebellion. "Pssssh... why do I have to follow so-and-so? I read half of al-Kafi, I know way more than him. I keeps it real, son."

Something to consider...

[DoubleAgent4]

Ok. Thanks for letting us know. Who might the secularists be?

[baradar_jackson]

Ahsant, sister. I see by your change of username that you have been guided to the right path. Inshallah you continue on this path.

[Abu'l Khattab]

A question to consider. Who cares?

[MysticKnight]

Something to consider...

Something to consider is that our perception of each other is not based on knowledge of the person, we have no access to their subconscious and the various factors that make them say a thing and act in a way.

Our perception of people that we highly respect or we highly disrespect, is based on a lot of misguided factors.

Our perception of people is not accurate. We don't know ourselves and we don't know others.

We misjudge people in both directions. Over adore them over respect them and make high image of them that is not accurate, and the same is true the other way, we disrespect people, make a bad image of them and it's not accurate.

Basically don't assume the best or worse of people, just do your best to know yourself without comparison to others that you don't perceive.

[baradar_jackson]

Over adore them over respect them and make high image of them that is not accurate,

I agree, depending on who you are talking about!

[MysticKnight]

I agree, depending on who you are talking about!

We may also under respect the people we highly respect and under disrespect people we highly disrespect.

What I mean is we don't know.

[DayStrike312]

Here's something to consider Baradar:

Ok. Thanks for letting us know. Who might the secularists be?

You are Hawraa!!!

Everything you do is WF! WF this! WF That! Dude chill!!

Can't you think about anything else other than WF? Is that all you care about? WF!

Hawraa what's wrong with you! You never used to be like this! You honestly need help!

It's like when you went to Iran They've totally brainwashed you!

Get a grip in yourself you WF freak! change your habits!

Not everything out there is about WF! Ok?

There IS more to life than WF.

Honestly, pick something, life is great. Why must you always be talking WF 24/7!

Please, just change your ways, and see how you like it.

Wa salam sister.

[-Enlightened]

A question to consider. Who cares?

I do

[Rohani]

Salam Alaykom, don't nit pick each other. people talk about what they are interested in,

I think all people should edge more into their minds that saying by the imam (as) Mankind is either your brother in faith or your brother in humanity If Allah can promise mercy to jews and christians in his book why can't he have mercy on all us splintered sects of disagreeing people? it is many of us who cannot over look peoples little things different to what we think is right alot of the time,Allah is much better and higher than us in mercy, although we should be letting the way for reflection of his mercy to manifest through us on how we treat others who are the same and different from us. we know surly it is not us who portion out the mercy of Allah it is only Allah who has mercy upon mankind.

Ok. Thanks for letting us know. Who might the secularists be?

Salam Alaykom

Sis you really switch sides?

[DoubleAgent4]

You are Hawraa!!!

Everything you do is WF! WF this! WF That! Dude chill!!

Can't you think about anything else other than WF? Is that all you care about? WF!

Hawraa what's wrong with you! You never used to be like this! You honestly need help!

It's like when you went to Iran They've totally brainwashed you!

Get a grip in yourself you WF freak! change your habits!

Not everything out there is about WF! Ok?

There IS more to life than WF.

Honestly, pick something, life is great. Why must you always be talking WF 24/7!

Please, just change your ways, and see how you like it.

Wa salam sister.

You're clearly delusional. Once a Shirazi, always a Shirazi ;)

Salam Alaykom

Sis you really switch sides?

Wasalaam, no brother.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Khamenie_Rahbar

[Rohani]

You're clearly delusional. Once a Shirazi, always a Shirazi ;)

Wasalaam, no brother.

:)

Whats with the user name ?

[baradar_jackson]

You're clearly delusional. Once a Shirazi, always a Shirazi ;)

Once a Shirazi, always emo.

Go away emo kid. Go call a suicide hotline or something so they can talk you out of cutting yourself.

:)

Whats with the user name ?

She defected and is still confused about her decision. Give her time.

[Rohani]

Salam Alaykom

^ I don't believe it, as she seems so certain you know?

[DoubleAgent4]

:)

Whats with the user name ?

It was a chat room joke. It was supposed to get changed back to my original username...

Once a Shirazi, always emo.

Go away emo kid. Go call a suicide hotline or something so they can talk you out of cutting yourself.

She defected and is still confused about her decision. Give her time.

I think you're regarding to tatbir...this is a whole discussion in itself. Yes I'm currently doing more research and reading books from both sides...you never know, I may be enlightened :!!!:

[DayStrike312]

Once a Shirazi, always emo.

Go away emo kid. Go call a suicide hotline or something so they can talk you out of cutting yourself.

Wow that was pretty low dude.

You don't know what she's been through throughout her life.

You don't know if she really is an Emo or not,

And you don't know if she actually tried committing suicide or not

So why don't you take your filthy WF behavior and go elsewhere!

Bj!

I thought you had more respect than that dude.

:no:

Edited September 5, 2011 by zainab41

[Rohani]

It was a chat room joke. It was supposed to get changed back to my original username...

I see, that explains all the other changed names as well. thank you for informing.

ma salam

[DayStrike312]

I see, that explains all the other changed names as well. thank you for informing.

ma salam

Hi, I'm max.

[Abu'l Khattab]

Wow that was pretty low dude.

You don't know what she's been through throughout her life.

You don't know if she really is an Emo or not,

And you don't know if she actually tried committing suicide or not

So why don't you take your filthy WF behavior and go elsewhere!

Bj!

I thought you had more respect than that dude.

:no:

I know, who does this baradar guy think he is anyways?

Here is a message to the youth of Shiachat. There are a lot of fitnah debates going on right now about Usoolism and that other thing.

I think the proponents of the latter use their self-righteousness to their advantage; it is through their self-righteousness that they convince people that they are the purest followers of Islam and they are the most close to the ahlul bayt.

But whenever you wonder about whether or not this is the truth, all of you brothers and sisters (especially those of you who are young and perhaps a bit confused) should consider this: why, with respect to the issue of taqleed, khums, WF... are secularists and wannabes in agreement with each other?

The wannabes have some ahadith; but what do the secularists have to suggest that they are the pure followers of ahlul bayt?

Why are these two groups in agreement?

My take: they are both driven by the same motivation. Their motivation is arrogance and rebellion. "Pssssh... why do I have to follow so-and-so? I read half of al-Kafi, I know way more than him. I keeps it real, son."

Something to consider...

So if I read Al Kafi on my spare time then I'm a secularist Akhbari kaffir?

Hi, I'm max.

Please don't spam the forum, this could evolve into a good discussion.

[DayStrike312]

I know, who does this baradar guy think he is anyways?

So if I read Al Kafi on my spare time then I'm a secularist Akhbari kaffir?

He prolly got bullied in highschool. Now he comes on ShiaChat to bully the "youth"

And well to defend his honor! If he has any....

[Abu'l Khattab]

He prolly got bullied in highschool. Now he comes on ShiaChat to bully the "youth"

And well to defend his honor! If he has any....

Iranians never get bullied, you know that.

[Shia_Debater]

[DayStrike312]

Iranians never get bullied, you know that.

I'm sorry, young Iranian :dry:

i guess that's what happens to people who don't get bullied then,

Don't ask.

[baradar_jackson]

So if I read Al Kafi on my spare time then I'm a secularist Akhbari kaffir?

Where did I say that reading al-Kafi was bad?

Where did I say that secularists and Akhbaris are the same thing?

Where did I say that any of them are kafir?

[Abu'l Khattab]

Salam Alaykom, don't nit pick each other. people talk about what they are interested in,

I think all people should edge more into their minds that saying by the imam (as) Mankind is either your brother in faith or your brother in humanity If Allah can promise mercy to jews and christians in his book why can't he have mercy on all us splintered sects of disagreeing people? it is many of us who cannot over look peoples little things different to what we think is right alot of the time,Allah is much better and higher than us in mercy, although we should be letting the way for reflection of his mercy to manifest through us on how we treat others who are the same and different from us. we know surly it is not us who portion out the mercy of Allah it is only Allah who has mercy upon mankind.

Salam Alaykom

Sis you really switch sides?

Great brother, but people like Baradar don't really take these threads seriously.

Where did I say that reading al-Kafi was bad?

Where did I say that secularists and Akhbaris are the same thing?

Where did I say that any of them are kafir?

Where did you say anything smart? Hmm?

[DayStrike312]

This is getting a bit too violent. :cry:

[Shia_Debater]

This is getting a bit too violent. :cry:

When is this gonna stop?

Edited September 5, 2011 by Salafi_Strangler

[DayStrike312]

Idk, this thread was originally directed for the youth, so us youth could go on and on and on and on. . . .

Baradar likes to feel like a teen at times ;)

Na I'm just messing, we honestly killed it.

Forgive! :)

[baradar_jackson]

Let's get back on topic.

The commonality between the secularists and wannabes is this:

- They disagree with Islamic government

- They disagree with any Islamic authority, and consider each individual to be the master of his or her self

- They believe that criticism should be free and that nobody should be exempt from criticism

- They believe that everyone is equally right to criticize

Interesting, no?

These two groups claim to be polar opposites, and in their outer manifestation, they are: one is "purist," the other is "progressive." (Although neither are any of those things; they are only like this in appearance and rhetoric). But they share these common ideological lines. Why is this? This is because of the oneness of the psychological roots of their respective ideologies. They each want to decide for themselves, and see themselves as above having to have others decide for them.

Why are secularists against Islamic government? Because secular-democratic government is the most optimal, and makes all other forms of government obsolete. Besides, all power corrupts, and it is best to not have religion mixed with politics because this will ruin both religion and politics.

Why are wannabes against it? Because there is no such thing as "Islamic government" with a pathetic non-masoom swine at the head, and we are all nothing (although we are good enough to do ijtihad for ourselves) because we lack ismah which is the key to all everything and without which life is just a dark sleepwalk. Also, non-masooms cannot be given so much power because all power corrupts and it is thus best that leadership not have so much power and that in ghaybah we are all given optimal freedom to choose the right path.

Why are secularists against Islamic authorities? Because the authority of Islamic scholars was from a time when the people were illiterate and needed this leadership. Now that people are educated and have the internet and automobiles and cotton gins, they are fit to derive judgements for themselves, and interpret Islam themselves.

Why are wannabes against them? Because its a shame how Shia take these authorities to be even higher than the ahadith of the ma'soomeen, and these authorities are just corrupt priests who are eating up khums money and changing shariah according to their personal wishes. Besides, people should study the religion themselves by looking at the true sources. Each individual has just as much right as these so-called "scholars" to derive laws from the sources.

Secularists believe in free criticism because freedom of speech is the backbone of their ideal government and society. Also, power corrupts, so people must be free to criticize those in power, who are inevitably bound to abuse their power, because power corrupts.

Wannabes believe in it because why should a non-masoom be exempt from criticism anyway? Besides, all these "authorities" nowadays claiming to be ruling on behalf of the Imams are just corrupt.

If you notice, they each start out differently, but end up the same. This is because the root psychological cause of their view is the very same. Their outer form has merely taken on divergent manifestations.

[DayStrike312]

Let's get back on topic.

Why are wannabes against them? Because its a shame how Shia take these authorities to be even higher than the ahadith of the ma'soomeen, and these authorities are just corrupt priests who are eating up khums money and changing shariah according to their personal wishes. Besides, people should study the religion themselves by looking at the true sources. Each individual has just as much right as these so-called "scholars" to derive laws from the sources.

Don't you guys believe that Ayatullah Khomeini is a Mu'soom? And that he should be given the title "Imam" as in he's so good he should be placed with the 12 Imams (as). This whole argument, that you've been having here for the past idk how many years isn't really about The Ayatullah, or What's right, what's wrong, rather it's prolly about shoving your views on everyone else. What you need is a journal my friend.

Honestly, do you even take half the threads you make on here seriously? Or is it just a way to express how you're feeling that day?

You're like a WF type of a Jehovah Witness!

Calm down man. Why are you so keen on making everyone around you follow the footsteps of Khomeini like he assigned you that job and you can't let him down. :wacko:

Edited September 5, 2011 by zainab41

[Barabika]

(bismillah)

(salam)

All the problems, in Shiachat, in real life, everywhere of our life, comes from one place: Our inability to respect other people's thoughts! If u cannot respect other people's thoughts there will be NO advancement in our religion!

When we dont have imam zaman at our reach, Islamic advancement is left at our hands, and since we dont know the true islam, each scholar will come up with different thoughts, thus the Shirazi's the Fadhlalah's the Khamenei's etc. But in the end of the day they're all moslims and none of them are trying to ruin islam, and even if the scholar is, the follower isnt! So there's no need to slander each other, and offend one another's thoughts and create another trouble in islam!

We're already suffering from the un-united Shia-sunni; Even though we should be the most powerful ppl on earth and have the last say, yet because shia and sunni slander each other and dont tolerate each other look at where we are in the world! Same thing is happening within Shia itself!

Just respect each other's thoughts, no need to offend, slander, criminalize, etc etc because these never solve anything but rather just make things worse! Also, they cause an environment where freedom of speech is gone away and with that, haq may go away too!

None of the groups are absoloutly right and none of them are absoloutly wrong! To find the right and wrong in each one, we must listen, judge, and respectfully say what we think, argue respectfully if needed! Problem is ppl: Pre-judge, dont listen and then slander and offend! :squeez:

Wasalam

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Here is something to consider:

baraders initials are BJ.

another 2 things to consider:

(1) he is guilty of the same arrogance and self righteousness that he accuses others of. just look at his tone while posting in this thread. this makes him a hypocrite.

(2) he is nothing but a WF fanboy who is no authority on anything. the whole reason there are so many debates is that better people than him on both sides can argue their case so effectively.

[Rohani]

Hi, I'm max.

Salam Alaykom

I am Justin to some.

did you have your user name changed as well?

[Al-Hadi]

Here is something to consider:

baraders initials are BJ.

another 2 things to consider:

(1) he is guilty of the same arrogance and self righteousness that he accuses others of. just look at his tone while posting in this thread. this makes him a hypocrite.

(2) he is nothing but a WF fanboy who is no authority on anything. the whole reason there are so many debates is that better people than him on both sides can argue their case so effectively.

LOL okay you make me laugh and that was hilarious...BUT

why do you people engage in these debates with no intention to change your opinion on the matter? lets be honest baradar, youre never going to become an anti WF so why do you keep entering debates with people and why do people enter debates with him if NONE OF YOU will change your opinion!!

its just pointless and leads to unnecessary fitnah.

so just keep your opinions and be tolerant, only approach open minded people.

[Kamranistan]

You know what I think?

I think you all know no ones going to accept the others argument or viewpoint, this is ALL fitna monging. To the OP, you know for a fact this thread would turn in to a messy thread. Why start it? You know you weren't going to get any good replies. What's the point? (This applies to many more other than barader..)

SC has become dead. It's sort of sad, it was very beneficial to me when I first joined, now it's just a waste of time. Same old same old.. Get over it and move on, it's like on replay.

New Topics:

1. Why is akhbari'ism right?

2. Usooli are sheep

3. WF WF RAHBARRRR

4. Mut'ah is haram

5. Unity between shi'a (open it and it's some sort of shi'a-shi'a hate thread)

Get tolerant before you engage in talk..

Edited September 5, 2011 by Kamran-Syed