Question To Consider

[DayStrike312]

Salam Alaykom

I am Justin to some.

did you have your user name changed as well?

Hi Justin.

I'd like my username changed to Khahar_Jackson.

Wadya say?

:D

[Rohani]

Hi Justin.

I'd like my username changed to Khahar_Jackson.

Wadya say?

:D

Go for it, but then there would be two jacksons :P

also i do not know at all what the definition of khahar is please tell ?

[DayStrike312]

Go for it, but then there would be two jacksons :P

also i do not know at all what the definition of khahar is please tell ?

Stop being an emo! :D

[Rohani]

lol Takes one to know one ^ :D

[DoubleAgent4]

Go for it, but then there would be two jacksons :P

also i do not know at all what the definition of khahar is please tell ?

It means sister...

[Rohani]

^ah two Jacksons, a baradar and a khahar lol :P

Edited September 5, 2011 by AlMuttaqi

[baradar_jackson]

All the problems, in Shiachat, in real life, everywhere of our life, comes from one place: Our inability to respect other people's thoughts! If u cannot respect other people's thoughts there will be NO advancement in our religion!

Actually, all the problems in life are caused by the love of this world.

Isn't that what our Prophet said?

Tolerance in the face of deviation is tantamount to writing the religion's death certificate.

Don't qiyas between Islamic ideology and Western ideology. Western ideology is strengthened by "tolerance" because it is predicated on creating a society of apolitical individuals who don't interfere with each other's business in any way. But this is not the ideal society according to Islam, so we cannot then say that "we must be tolerant of such and such."

It is quite one thing to engage in dialogue with other faiths. This is recommended, and the leader is at the forefront of this. But it is quite another to allow internal forces to deviate our own religion. This will bring about downfall.

It took a lot of hard work in order that the ulama, the hawzah, the marja'iyah, be brought out of its bubble and become the vanguard of Shias everywhere. This flame was kept alive through the times by exceptional individuals (like Mirza Shirazi). Today, we are fortunate that there is no need for scholars to "go against the grain" when they want to be more than just a fiqhi resource. The educational institutions encourage such studies and such activities.

After all this progress that has been made, certain people want to nullify all of it and return Shia to the wounded, inadequate state which they had for centuries.

Here is something to consider:

baraders initials are BJ.

another 2 things to consider:

(1) he is guilty of the same arrogance and self righteousness that he accuses others of. just look at his tone while posting in this thread. this makes him a hypocrite.

(2) he is nothing but a WF fanboy who is no authority on anything. the whole reason there are so many debates is that better people than him on both sides can argue their case so effectively.

You are arguing against something that I never argued for.

My whole point is that I'm not an authority on anything. The leader is. The scholarship is. Don't I always make that clear?

LOL okay you make me laugh and that was hilarious...BUT

why do you people engage in these debates with no intention to change your opinion on the matter? lets be honest baradar, youre never going to become an anti WF so why do you keep entering debates with people and why do people enter debates with him if NONE OF YOU will change your opinion!!

its just pointless and leads to unnecessary fitnah.

so just keep your opinions and be tolerant, only approach open minded people.

Debates are not for the participants but for the onlookers.

Me and MDM may not change, but perhaps someone who is witnessing the debate will become convinced of one argument or the other.

[Ruq]

'cotton gin' ?

[DayStrike312]

^ah two Jacksons, a baradar and a khahar lol :P

Yeah :D

Wouldn't that be awesome!!!

[Rohani]

well do you think you could live up to such a user name? :P

[baradar_jackson]

'cotton gin' ?

It changed the world!

[Barabika]

Don't qiyas between Islamic ideology and Western ideology.

See. Thats another problem! Quickly being accused of following western ideology! This has nothing to do with western ideology! Even after imam zaman comes, we will have christians, jews, zoroastrians etc etc! Imam zaman is killed AFTER he controls the whole world by a JEW woman!

This is tolerance; respecting other ppls thoughts, without accusing them of "western ideology" or "muhareb" or "munafiq" etc etc. Its actually ISLAMIC ideology! But not allowing ppl to criticize is more what western Gvmts would support in dictator countries like Libya!

See, if ur kind of thought is taken to saudi arabia, malek Abdulah ale saud is also uncriticizable because who are we to criticize him?!

But it is quite another to allow internal forces to deviate our own religion.

Problem: We're not even allowing internal people to talk about our religion! In the last thirty years, how many protests have you seen in iran which was against what the gvrmt or regime wants?!!! How many?! Even if there have been any, the state TV alhamdulelah has said NOTHING about it!

When u cant criticize you cant say hey! We're Torturing prisoners here in iran! Do smth about it! because "who are we to criticize"?! Then, after thirty years, this country STILL has torturing in its political prisons!

[DoubleAgent4]

Let's get back on topic.

The commonality between the secularists and wannabes is this:

- They disagree with Islamic government

Yes. During the time of Ghayba an Islamic government can not be established however a country may have Islamic principles in it. No government has the right to be called Islamic.

- They disagree with any Islamic authority, and consider each individual to be the master of his or her self

No.

- They believe that criticism should be free and that nobody should be exempt from criticism

Yes.

- They believe that everyone is equally right to criticize

Yes.

They each want to decide for themselves, and see themselves as above having to have others decide for them.

No.

Why are wannabes against them? Because its a shame how Shia take these authorities to be even higher than the ahadith of the ma'soomeen, and these authorities are just corrupt priests who are eating up khums money and changing shariah according to their personal wishes.

You pretty much summed it all up.

Wannabes believe in it because why should a non-masoom be exempt from criticism anyway? Besides, all these "authorities" nowadays claiming to be ruling on behalf of the Imams are just corrupt.

How can Khamenei be the only person to be called the representative of Imam al Mahdi (aj)?

[The Green Knight]

Every real debater, who puts more thought than the usual "lol omg" in their one-liner posts, here on SC is actually peddling their own agenda and will fiercely guard it. That's my honest observation. Here are some examples:

- BaradarJackson = Wilayat-e-Faqih proponent

- Ya Aba Abdillah = "Turn the other cheek", or in our case, lets-get-another-generation-slaughtered-by-wahabis proponent

- MaulaDhaMalang = Malangism proponent

- Siratoaliyyunhaqqun = Akhbarism proponent

- MysticKnight / iSilurian / and the gang = Here to free the "sheep" and assimilate them into their oblivion.

And so on. No offense. Just my flawed observation.

But, do people ever pause and wonder WHY these people are actually mostly talking about those things? A mundane thing called insecurity. For example, our old brother BaradarJackson feels insecure for the Iranian system of government. So he'll mount his horse and unsheathe his sword for WF, usoolism and the accompanying apparatus. He'll strike at ALL possible opponents and fling sticks, stones or whatever he can get his hands on, as weak or insulting those actions may be. Personally, I've always tried to comfort him by adding that the innovation of WF is actually good and should be followed in Iran, the only place it is applicable.

As for taqleed, everyone does taqleed, if not of a scholar then someone else's, but most people listen to and respect scholars. We used to have inflammation in the past about a particular scholar who was criticized and rightly so, for his bold non-Shia conclusions (think of Nader Zaveri's alleged cloak and dagger anti-Shia covert agenda), but (un)(fortunately) he passed away on muawiya's death anniversary. Just the facts, and no offense. Why I mention him? Its because it is everyone's right to criticize someone, anyone, who is as famous, audacious and prodigal and travels in a new direction that clearly leads to non-Shia.

Now is a good place to write about the unity proponents, since they might be in the same boat as the above mentioned type of scholar who tries to build a dream bridge between heaven and hell, i.e., between the Shia of Ahl-al-bayt (as) and everyone else who abandoned this Noah's ark of salvation. To be honest it is still unclear to me and I do not wish to speculate but I'm sure its another form of insecurity. Perhaps they are afraid of the anti-Shia oppression and slow genocide spreading to their still safe fragile private little world.

Anyway, so here we are.

IMHO anything that is far enough from the usool-e-deen and furoo' of our madhab is free for all and up for debating. While anything that is close enough to the usools and furoo' SHOULD BE GUARDED FIERCELY AND BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. Be that polite criticism or a drone strike, personally I don't care.

So, frankly, if tomorrow the blessed and honorable Wali Amr SOMEHOW, heavens forbid, starts acting all fishy like JonabAzadi / Nader Zaveri and I see that he's trying to distort our 1400 year old religion of God, then brother, I'm going to stop him or at least criticize him for it and hold him accountable for his actions, without any care for moderation or politically correct choice of words.

And I'm not interested in staying disarmed to get slaughtered by the non-shia let alone open arms and take bullets and bomb fragments in the chest. You want unity and mutual respect? You go ask them to [Edited Out]ing CEASE FIRE first, Einstein.

And I'm not even going to write about people who think of God as a monumental, careless, aimless, arbitrary form of Santa Claus who'll gladly accept bankers and murderers into heaven. Thats pure nonsense and I will speak out against such absurd things.

CONCLUSION:

What is wrong with people? I guess common sense is not so common. I embraced Shia Islam and abandoned the fake Abbasid state created artificial and pointless flavor of Islam. I am open to learning new things and love reading everyone's post. But please, see thyself in thine own light first, admit your mistakes too and correct them. It is a great and noble thing. Don't be so predictable like a broken record.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Abu Dujana

[MysticKnight]

^better then trying to analyze why people are here, it's better to analyze yourself and see what you are looking for. But really you don't know even yourself and your hidden motives, let alone others. I don't know myself, and I never knew myself, and I never knew others either.

Take it easy on the perception of everyone and psychological analysis of them.

Edited September 8, 2011 by MysticKnight