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Ya Aba 3abdillah

Pseudo-akhbari Accusations Against the Maraaji'

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Regardless, the point is that besides using a fallible as source to validate itself, can you provide Quranic/Hadith reference stating 'wajibat on fallible (taqleed)'.

Already posted a couple here

And quoted Sayyid Al-Khoe'i that confirmed as much

More of the same, that is, hot air with a lot of angry name calling. I wonder if any admins/mod who are keen on warning people for breaking SC rules even read your posts? Or perhaps co-owning this forum makes you exempt?

Ya aba, I am sorry if you are having a bad day but this is, again, unwarranted and unnecessary. The day you learn basic manners to discuss issues of disagreement, please do let me know. We may talk.

I am sure I am a better Muslim than you, both in `aqaid and `aamaal (which includes akhlaq) if that helps.

Piss off

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Please give some thought to my last post. It will help.

There is no thought required for you last post, especially when someone considers as such:

I am sure I am a better Muslim than you, both in `aqaid and `aamaal (which includes akhlaq) if that helps.

Only Allah knows the above.

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^ Great.

You conveniently missed his attack on me when he accused me of harbouring a 'deep-seated hatred for Islam'. It was this I was replying to.

This is a regular behavioural trait of the followers of WF to declare others as enemies of Islam when they disagree with their interpretation of Islam. Nothing new.

You also conveniently missed all of his other unneeded and unnecessary attacks on me. Subhanallah. Talk about partisanship.

Edited by Marbles

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Already posted a couple here

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__2259399

And quoted Sayyid Al-Khoe'i that confirmed as much

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__2259648

Piss off

Salamunalaikum

Its really sad to see something like that coming from an admin.

Looks like having interests as Nahjul Balagha was not of much help.

When in the battle of Khandaq, Hazrat Ali (as) didnt kill umar-ibn-abdawud immediately when the accursed spit on his(as) face. That was the noblest character to show that he (as) did not want to give even a slight impression that he (as) is fighting for himself but for Islam

And we call ourselves his (as) followers!! whereas an example should be set for others to follow

Sorry but couldnt hold after reading the above post

wasalam

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^ Great.

You conveniently missed his attack on me when he accused me of harbouring a 'deep-seated hatred for Islam'. It was this I was replying to.

This is a regular behavioural trait of the followers of WF to declare others as enemies of Islam when they disagree with their interpretation of Islam. Nothing new.

You also conveniently missed all of his other unneeded and unnecessary attacks on me. Subhanallah. Talk about partisanship.

Salam brother,

Let us see what you claimed:

I am sure I am a better Muslim than you, both in `aqaid and `aamaal (which includes akhlaq) if that helps.

If really what you claim above is true, than you didn't turn the other cheek. You thought someone slapped you, and you turned around and slapped harder. In fact, you become Allah and become the Judge.

Anyway the water is under bridge, if I have in any shape or form hurt your feeling, then I truly apologize for my short comings.

I am an Arab, and even after that I don't consider myself fluent in Arabic. I have seen our Shia brothers on this forum, who hardly know Arabic, but have acquired books of hadiths, mostly online, unverified, with the aid of search engine and Google translation have become experts on Shia Islam.

They quote hadiths right and left without the full knowledge of Hadith and Quran, and they give online fatwas on ShaiChat. They are hardly qualified, as they have little knowledge of Islam, which takes years and years of study. They even claim they are there to revive Islam.

And, the gullible new members follow them like chicken without heads, as they are baffled by being quoted these hadiths in Arabic, providing the translaion, providing the sanad, and they giving their opionion on hadiths in Arabic then English in brackets.

This is what this thread is really about.

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Said the resident Marja' of ShiaChat. You finished deducing your own fatwas yet?

Carry on bro. Your lack of ikhlaq, childish & abusive comments & devious behaviour (how many times has this thread title changed?) has probably done more damage than good in your 'defence' of marjiyaat/khums/WeF - is this how a follower of Ahlulbayt (as) should behave?

And for some strange reason you can be abusive yet still be an SC Admin? Bizarre.

Brothers better versed than me have corrected you on every one of the recent witchhunt threads but still you stumble on, resorting to abuse whenever things get a little touchy and childishness when everyone doesn't agree with you.

Knock yourself out.

ALI

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Carry on bro. Your lack of ikhlaq, childish & abusive comments & devious behaviour (how many times has this thread title changed?) has probably done more damage than good in your 'defence' of marjiyaat/khums/WeF - is this how a follower of Ahlulbayt (as) should behave?

And for some strange reason you can be abusive yet still be an SC Admin? Bizarre.

Brothers better versed than me have corrected you on every one of the recent witchhunt threads but still you stumble on, resorting to abuse whenever things get a little touchy and childishness when everyone doesn't agree with you.

Knock yourself out.

ALI

The pseudo-Akhbaris and ulema haters have broken all records of abuse both towards our Marjas as well as other schiachat members. If you say I am wrong, tell me how much respect you have for all our Marjas?

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The pseudo-Akhbaris and ulema haters have broken all records of abuse both towards our Marjas as well as other schiachat members. If you say I am wrong, tell me how much respect you have for all our Marjas?

Salam brother,

The above people lack adaab and akhlaq. They hate the KauTher (as) in this life and Allah has promised them that he will cut them off from KauTher in afterlife, where the Prophet (pbuh) will be awaiting for the lovers of the KauTher (as).

To thee have We granted the Fount (of Abundance). Therefore to thy Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice. For he who hateth thee, he will be cut off (from Future Hope).

Al-Qur'an, 108.001-003 (Al-KauTher [Abundance, Plenty])

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The above people lack adaab and akhlaq..

they lack adaab and akhlaq and complain that others are not treating them well!

they dont answer questions and complain that others have not answered them!

they see proof but always complain that they have not been shown any!

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I am asking why any of you believe this matters. To each his own, lakum deenukum waliya deeni. (If the quran is to be believed) We are only supposed to correct others on matters of religion (If Imam Ali (as) is to be believed) if we think our words will be heeded, (and if our thoughts were wrong) and our corrections are despised and rejected then we are to say lakum deenukum waliya deeni. What is all this fighting for? Shiatu Ali do not fight over matters of religion, this goes against religion itself!

Ma'asalaama

Edited by thenamelessone

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I am asking why any of you believe this matters. To each his own, lakum deenukum waliya deeni. (If the quran is to be believed) We are only supposed to correct others on matters of religion (If Imam Ali (as) is to be believed) if we think our words will be heeded, (and if our thoughts were wrong) and our corrections are despised and rejected then we are to say lakum deenukum waliya deeni. What is all this fighting for? Shiatu Ali do not fight over matters of religion, this goes against religion itself!

Ma'asalaama

(bismillah)

(salam)

It was the pseudo-Akhbaris who started all this on shiachat. We never went out to attack them. They are the ones who attacked our beliefs, abuse our scholars and misguide people. All we did was to defend our school in response to their aggression.

And if they stop attacking us we will be happy to find common grounds and work with them towards common goals. After all we believe in the same Allah, same Nabi (pbuh), same Imams (as) and even the same hadith books. If we can have unity with our Sunni brothers, why cant we have unity (of some sort) with the pseudo-Akhbaris?

WS

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The pseudo-Akhbaris and ulema haters have broken all records of abuse both towards our Marjas as well as other schiachat members. If you say I am wrong, tell me how much respect you have for all our Marjas?

You really need to desist from lying Orion. In all of THESE threads show me ONE example of anyone abusing/slandering a scholar? It's an emotional trick you use when logic and lack of credible proofs leave you floundering. You've made the accusation now back it up - where is the abuse of marja on these threads?

As for abusing other SC members, that's too perverse to warrant lengthy debate. Suffice to say two people come to the fore when it comes to lack of manners and their both fully paid-up Usoolis.

ALI

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You believe that for every act we were told to do, the word 'wajib' was explicitly used?

For something significant like this it is necessary. There are 2 parts that are significant not just one; First the 'wajibat' aspect, Secondly, the consequences (shirk, void salat, etc.).

This is beyond significant, it's unprecedented, hence you should understand why many people want clear textual proof.

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You really need to desist from lying Orion. In all of THESE threads show me ONE example of anyone abusing/slandering a scholar? It's an emotional trick you use when logic and lack of credible proofs leave you floundering. You've made the accusation now back it up - where is the abuse of marja on these threads?

Here is ONE example:

I will give u a hint. I say u guys are ahle usool wal ijtehaad and this is biddah.

^^ now who is "u guys" above. Who believes in Usool and who practices Ijtehad. Naturally its us and our scholars our Marjas. And he is calling them innovators (biddati)....(nauzobillah) this is pure slander and abuse.

And many abusive posts were deleted by the moderators where scholars were slandered by name.

Edited by Orion

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For something significant like this it is necessary. There are 2 parts that are significant not just one; First the 'wajibat' aspect, Secondly, the consequences (shirk, void salat, etc.).

This is beyond significant, it's unprecedented, hence you should understand why many people want clear textual proof.

There used be an alcoholic guy during the time of the Prophet (saws), the darling of the Suniis.

These is no verse in the Holy Quran which use the literal word "haram" with alcohol.

Everytime, a verse descending where Allah said about not drinking alcohol, he used to come and shout at the Prophet, it doesn't say haram and he kept on drinking. Even the last surah, surah number 5, the verse in it doesn't use the literal word "haram" with the alcohol. Now the Sunnis say:

1. The verse in surah 5, made alcohol haram.

2. This guy suddenly quit drinking, even though some claim that he never quit.

3. Allah abrogates in the Holy Quran (astafgurAllah).

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^^ now who is "u guys" above. Who believes in Usool and who practices Ijtehad. Naturally its us and our scholars our Marjas. And he is calling them innovators (biddati)....(nauzobillah) this is pure slander and abuse.

And many abusive posts were deleted by the moderators where scholars were slandered by name.

You are obviously too sensitive and emotional to debate controversial subjects.

I can imagine you debating with an athiest:

Orion: .........hence there is God.

Athiest: God doesn't exist because.................

Orion: Astagfirullah, how dare you disrespect My Lord! Moderaters must take immediate action!

If rejecting God is permissible to discuss on this website than why are you complaining over fatwas/rules made by fallibles? Are Marjas > Allah? You really make some weird allegations for a smart guy.

If a person believes a rule/concept is bidah, he will state it is and give his reasons, that's how discussions work. No need to twist words and be over dramatic about.

There used be an alcoholic guy during the time of the Prophet (saws), the darling of the Suniis.

These is no verse in the Holy Quran which use the literal word "haram" with alcohol.

Everytime, a verse descending where Allah said about not drinking alcohol, he used to come and shout at the Prophet, it doesn't say haram and he kept on drinking. Even the last surah, surah number 5, the verse in it doesn't use the literal word "haram" with the alcohol. Now the Sunnis say:

1. The verse in surah 5, made alcohol haram.

2. This guy suddenly quit drinking, even though some claim that he never quit.

3. Allah abrogates in the Holy Quran (astafgurAllah).

I don't understand what you mean, intoxicants is clearly stated as a 'sin' in the Quran.

Anyways, using analogies/examples isn't productive nor logical.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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I don't understand what you mean, intoxicants is clearly stated as a 'sin' in the Quran.

Anyways, using analogies/examples isn't productive nor logical.

As a sin, but not haram. So you are saying that alcohol is not haram?

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WTF.....lol :wacko:

Committing any sin is haram.

Very true, so why do you think that the alcoholic guy kept on drinking and kept on arguing with the Prophet that it is not Haram?

When God says, "Don't", it means "Haram".

When God says, "Do", it means "Wajib".

Unless I missed it, I don't see any Hadith where it says 'Wajib'.

Now, are you sure about the above?

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Very true, so why do you think that the alcoholic guy kept on drinking and kept on arguing with the Prophet that it is not Haram?

When God says, "Don't", it means "Haram".

When God says, "Do", it means "Wajib".

Now, are you sure about the above?

(bismillah)

(salam)

I am sorry bro aladdin

i have to see the words

like

potential imamate candidate

more than 4 wives simaltaneously

etc and so forth

well done uj, keep going

(wasalam)

ps. bro aladdin without the doubles

Edited by haideriam

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(bismillah)

A couple issues.

1. If Shiachat is an Usooli discussion forum than all the Akhbari posts should be relegated to a specific forum. There are too many unqualified opinions being presented as Twelver Shi'ism on this forum by Akhbaris and this is creating confusion as these posts are not mentioning that they are in fact Akhbari beliefs. For someone who would not know any better and came to this forum to learn about the teachings of the AhlulBayt [as] in line with the qualified Maraja3 theymay very well be deviated towards Akhbarism.

2. There is a two part lecture by H.I. Sh. Hamza Sodagar on the matter of taqleed which should be watched for a greater understanding by all including Usoolis and Akhbaris.

Edited by Guiding Light

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Very true, so why do you think that the alcoholic guy kept on drinking and kept on arguing with the Prophet that it is not Haram?

Errr...maybe he was too drunk to understand. :lol:

What's the point here? ^_^

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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(bismillah)

If Shiachat is an Usooli discussion forum than all the Akhbari posts should be relegated to a specific forum. There are too many unqualified opinions being offered as Twelver Shi'ism on this forum by Akhbaris and this is creating confusion as these posts are not mentioning that they are in fact Akhbari beliefs.

This is what is need very badly.

There are lots of hadith books online, people with limited knowledge of Arabic, Islam, Hadith and Quran are using the Search Engine and Google Translator and quoting hadiths right and left with Arabic terms as, sahih, hasan and so forth. And, they are issuing online fatwas.

The average Shia, are mesmerized with the above learned person and follow them like chickens without heads.

Edited by aladdin

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If a person believes a rule/concept is bidah, he will state it is and give his reasons, that's how discussions work.

Sorry, only properly qualified scholars are allowed to declare something biddah. We cant allow layperson to come here and tell us that all our Marja are innovators.

Regarding his personal beliefs and "reasons" he should sit with qualified scholars and discuss with them. We cant let individuals, pretending to be hadith experts, misguide members

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Sorry, only properly qualified scholars are allowed to declare something biddah. We cant allow layperson to come here and tell us that all our Marja are innovators.

Regarding his personal beliefs and "reasons" he should sit with qualified scholars and discuss with them. We cant let individuals, pretending to be hadith experts, misguide members

Any they totally lack the knowledge of Arabic language, Islam, Quran and Hadiths. They have unverified online hadiths books with search engine and google tranlator. And, suddenly they are experts on Islam and in the business of reviving Islam.

Edited by aladdin

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Any they totally lack the knowledge of Arabic language, Islam, Quran and Hadiths. They have unverified online hadiths books with search engine and google tranlator. And, suddenly they are experts on Islam and in the business of reviving Islam.

And keeping up with their character they cannot even provide proof for what they believe in. Cats on the wall

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And keeping up with their character they cannot even provide proof for what they believe in. Cats on the wall

wohi morghi ke aik tang!

You have been given proof multiple times. You were given articles with proof AND web-site links like www.al-islam.org where our beliefs are discussed in detail with proof. BUT you keep saying that you have not been shown any proof.

Its like:

siraatoaliyinhaqqun: what is the proof for such and such.

Orion: here is the ayat, a hadith and some common sense.

siraatoaliyinhaqqun: you have not shown me any proof.

Orion: here is an article.

siraatoaliyinhaqqun: you have not shown me any proof.

Orion: go to this web-site www.al-islam.org .

siraatoaliyinhaqqun: you have not shown me any proof.

:donno:

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wohi morghi ke aik tang!

You have been given proof multiple times. You were given articles with proof AND web-site links like www.al-islam.org where our beliefs are discussed in detail with proof. BUT you keep saying that you have not been shown any proof.

Its like:

siraatoaliyinhaqqun: what is the proof for such and such.

Orion: here is the ayat, a hadith and some common sense.

siraatoaliyinhaqqun: you have not shown me any proof.

Orion: here is an article.

siraatoaliyinhaqqun: you have not shown me any proof.

Orion: go to this web-site www.al-islam.org .

siraatoaliyinhaqqun: you have not shown me any proof.

:donno:

Get some real replies. Quoting Usoolis ulemas opinions to an akhbari is not the way of answering because I give a damn to their opinions. Quote the ahadees from Aimma a.s. in full without your addition or substractioon, and without personal opinions. The ahadees should agree with Quran and other ahadees on the same issue. Then you can say that you have given a reply.

And wait; you will also have to improve your manners and you all must agree on one man to talk at one time if not you all fail to show discipline and derail the thread expecting that each one should get a reply for different questions at the same time; and this make the OP topic redundant.

E.G. If you talk khums then it should be only khums no matter what.

Ya Ali Madad

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The two parts lecture by Sh. Hamza Sodagar (post #376) is a must watch. Great background info. Apparently he is aware of some pointless debates on Internet about Ejtehad and Taqleed. He also mentioned discussion on Khums on some Islamic forum. ......He knows... -_-

There is a problem with the audio in the second.

Edited by Zareen

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Quote the ahadees from Aimma a.s. in full without your addition or substractioon, and without personal opinions.

this is something i noticed many usoolis here are guilty of, but orion in particular. i call these people "bracket believers" since they base most of their faith on what is in brackets that they add themselves rather than the actual hadith itself.

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