Mushu's Anouncement

[Guest Mushu]

Salam alaikum dear brothers and sisters,

In my recent rant against members who slander scholars, a few members expressed that they think I am being hypocritical, and that I have no right to complain whilst I myself sin.

I must admit, I agree. I have no right to criticise other members whilst I myself post music, etc.

For that reason, I promise that from this moment forth, I shall post no music, or anything of the sort.

JazakumUllah.

However, I will add, I will NEVER stand for the slandering of our scholars. That is unforgivable.

[Abu'l Khattab]

Is this another lousy attempt by you to become a chat mod? Or does the young man from Hillah have bigger things planned?

[DoubleAgent4]

Well, I agree that we should respect each others views and ideologies as we all have different opinions however we should be free to criticise scholars. At the end of the day saying that all scholars are amazing, you're infact fooling yourself. This is why blind faith is so dangerous. As our Prophet (as) has stated: 'Woe unto my nation from deviant leaders'....and from Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (as) : 'Who ever requests leadership perishes' and as you've heard the saying 'power corrupts'...just something to ponder over. Anyways my Shia brothers and sisters come before others which is why I will try to refrain from slandering other 'scholars', but I most certainly will not watch others be brainwashed!

Edited August 30, 2011 by Hawraa29

[baradar_jackson]

Well, I agree that we should respect each others views and ideologies as we all have different opinions however we should be free to criticise scholars. At the end of the day saying that all scholars are amazing, you're infact fooling yourself. This is why blind faith is so dangerous. As our Prophet (as) has stated: 'Woe unto my nation from deviant leaders'....and from Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (as) : 'Who ever requests leadership perishes' and as you've heard the saying 'power corrupts'...just something to ponder over. Anyways my Shia brothers and sisters come before others which is why I will try to refrain from slandering other 'scholars', but I most certainly will not watch others be brainwashed!

Imam Khomeini > you

[DoubleAgent4]

^

Whatever :D

[Ali Hayder]

Imam Khomeini > you

I agree, but does that mean that people can't criticise Ayatullah Khomeini's policies?

[baradar_jackson]

I agree, but does that mean that people can't criticise Ayatullah Khomeini's policies?

It means that those who criticize should have some shame and humility.

[DoubleAgent4]

It means that those who criticize should have some shame and humility.

Haha, even Imam Ali (as) allowed people to criticise him. He didn't wage a war on them or silence them unless they directly caused him and those around him harm.

[titumir]

^^ But if people were criticizing using nonsense excuses with the ultimate aim of overthrowing Imam Ali (as), and were allied with the enemies of Islam, then you bet he would wage war against them or silence them. Propaganda is an example of direct war. Its called "Psychological WARFARE" for a reason.

[Guest Mushu]

Is this another lousy attempt by you to become a chat mod? Or does the young man from Hillah have bigger things planned?

Nope. A sincere announcement.

Well, I agree that we should respect each others views and ideologies as we all have different opinions however we should be free to criticise scholars. At the end of the day saying that all scholars are amazing, you're infact fooling yourself. This is why blind faith is so dangerous. As our Prophet (as) has stated: 'Woe unto my nation from deviant leaders'....and from Imam Ja'afar al Sadiq (as) : 'Who ever requests leadership perishes' and as you've heard the saying 'power corrupts'...just something to ponder over. Anyways my Shia brothers and sisters come before others which is why I will try to refrain from slandering other 'scholars', but I most certainly will not watch others be brainwashed!

If you want to start quoting ahadith, i'll give you some more relevant ones.

"Uluma' umati khayrun min anbiya' banu Israel" - "The scholars of my 'uma are greater than the Prophets of Israel"

Hadith from the Prophet Mohammed Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã, and it is a hadith Mutawatir.

The hadith was explained by Syed Al-Khoei, who upon asked about it, said "Indeed this hadith refers to the scholars of Ahlul-bayt, but not the likes of me."

Of course, we must remember that our scholars are humble, and of course Syed Al-Khoei would say "not the likes of me".

I'll also give you another hadith Mutawatir - "The Ghiba of an 'alim is the same as eating the poisoned flesh of your brothers corpse"

(as oppose to normal Ghiba, which is just eating the flesh of a corpse).

[Abu'l Khattab]

Nope. A sincere announcement.

If you want to start quoting ahadith, i'll give you some more relevant ones.

"Uluma' umati khayrun min anbiya' banu Israel" - "The scholars of my 'uma are greater than the Prophets of Israel"

Hadith from the Prophet Mohammed صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم, and it is a hadith Mutawatir.

The hadith was explained by Syed Al-Khoei, who upon asked about it, said "Indeed this hadith refers to the scholars of Ahlul-bayt, but not the likes of me."

Of course, we must remember that our scholars are humble, and of course Syed Al-Khoei would say "not the likes of me".

I'll also give you another hadith Mutawatir - "The Ghiba of an 'alim is the same as eating the poisoned flesh of your brothers corpse"

(as oppose to normal Ghiba, which is just eating the flesh of a corpse).

How do you decide who counts as an aalim?

[Yasoob Al Deen]

"Uluma' umati khayrun min anbiya' banu Israel" - "The scholars of my 'uma are greater than the Prophets of Israel"

Hadith from the Prophet Mohammed صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم, and it is a hadith Mutawatir.

The hadith was explained by Syed Al-Khoei, who upon asked about it, said "Indeed this hadith refers to the scholars of Ahlul-bayt, but not the likes of me."

Of course, we must remember that our scholars are humble, and of course Syed Al-Khoei would say "not the likes of me".

I'll also give you another hadith Mutawatir - "The Ghiba of an 'alim is the same as eating the poisoned flesh of your brothers corpse"

(as oppose to normal Ghiba, which is just eating the flesh of a corpse).

Firstly, do you even know what the word muttawaatir means? I want you to show me, let's say, over 5 chains for each of these ahadeeth with, let's say, at least two being saheeh before I will personally believe in the tawwaatur of these two ahadeeth you have quoted.

Secondly, there is no such concept of "adalat al-`ulema" in Shia Islam, so stop treating them like they're infallible. There have been and still are corrupt `ulema in the world and there have been and there are innovators amongst the `ulema. If a person feels that someone, e.g. Khomeini, is a corrupt person for various reasons, they're entitled to their opinion if they can provide evidence for it.

(wasalam)

Edited September 1, 2011 by Yasoob Al Deen

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Imam Khomeini > you

last time i checked, sis hawraa wasnt responsible for the deaths of hundreds/ thousands of innocent people, and the opression of the shirazis and others and god only knows how many thousands of others over a period of 3 decades.

hawra > khomeini

[baradar_jackson]

Haha, even Imam Ali (as) allowed people to criticise him. He didn't wage a war on them or silence them unless they directly caused him and those around him harm.

1) This is not a question of what is allowed and what is not allowed, but a question of the criticizers themselves. Why do they consider themselves to be in a position to criticize him? For example, criticism was allowed against Imam Ali. Does that mean you will celebrate this criticism and consider it legitimate?

2) This:

^^ But if people were criticizing using nonsense excuses with the ultimate aim of overthrowing Imam Ali (as), and were allied with the enemies of Islam, then you bet he would wage war against them or silence them. Propaganda is an example of direct war. Its called "Psychological WARFARE" for a reason.

[14infallibles]

last time i checked, sis hawraa wasnt responsible for the deaths of hundreds/ thousands of innocent people, and the opression of the shirazis and others and god only knows how many thousands of others over a period of 3 decades.

hawra > khomeini

(salam)

Can you please post more info regarding this? With references, thanks

Wassalam

[baradar_jackson]

(salam)

Can you please post more info regarding this? With references, thanks

Wassalam

La hawla wala quwwata illa billah

Here we go...

[lost89]

woah

no slandering aalims

imam khomeini, ftw. plz respect at all times.

you just go on saying nonsensical stuff abt aalims and scholars, please.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

(salam)

Can you please post more info regarding this? With references, thanks

Wassalam

far too much evidence for me to go into, i made two really famous threads about this very topic right here on sc brother. the evidence was all there. khomeini supporters did what they do best and ignored it *rolls eyes*

see the difference is that i am a lover of maula hussain (as), as such it is haram for me to respect any tyrant, whether he is the thief of fadak, the ameer of shaam or wearing a black turban. he did horrible tyranny. his supporters say the victims deserved it, they trust his judgement and look at his good points. which is exactly what sunnis say to defend their sahabas.

to summarise his crime - he ordered the death fatwa for suspected MKO terrorists held in prison. which was questionable enough, however this led to a secret genocide, where tens of thousands (we will never know the full number) of people in prison who were being held on unconnected crimes and sometimes even suspicion of crimes were also killed unjustly in what can only be described as a sick bloodbath.

they were led into sudden trials they had no time to prepare for, with no defence lawyer, asked trick questions in order to catch them out, given judgements by the khomeini appointed and encouraged magistrates there and then, and finally executed in large numbers (usually by hanging).

they were buried in mass graves, such as khavran.

for me, this makes the ayatollah and his whole damn mullah-ocracy tyrant filth, equal to yazeed, not hussain (as)

all the evidence you could ever need is in those two threads. accept it or reject it, but know that you will be questioned about knowingly supporting and loving tyrants on qiyaamat.

[14infallibles]

far too much evidence for me to go into, i made two really famous threads about this very topic right here on sc brother. the evidence was all there. khomeini supporters did what they do best and ignored it *rolls eyes*

see the difference is that i am a lover of maula hussain (as), as such it is haram for me to respect any tyrant, whether he is the thief of fadak, the ameer of shaam or wearing a black turban. he did horrible tyranny. his supporters say the victims deserved it, they trust his judgement and look at his good points. which is exactly what sunnis say to defend their sahabas.

to summarise his crime - he ordered the death fatwa for suspected MKO terrorists held in prison. which was questionable enough, however this led to a secret genocide, where tens of thousands (we will never know the full number) of people in prison who were being held on unconnected crimes and sometimes even suspicion of crimes were also killed unjustly in what can only be described as a sick bloodbath.

they were led into sudden trials they had no time to prepare for, with no defence lawyer, asked trick questions in order to catch them out, given judgements by the khomeini appointed and encouraged magistrates there and then, and finally executed in large numbers (usually by hanging).

they were buried in mass graves, such as khavran.

for me, this makes the ayatollah and his whole damn mullah-ocracy tyrant filth, equal to yazeed, not hussain (as)

all the evidence you could ever need is in those two threads. accept it or reject it, but know that you will be questioned about knowingly supporting and loving tyrants on qiyaamat.

(salam)

Please give me a link to the threads

Also I hope that there is solid references to this. Not that I dont trust you bro, its just I do not want to be among those who accuse a scholar of a crime that has not been proven

[Barabika]

Salam alaikum dear brothers and sisters, In my recent rant against members who slander scholars, a few members expressed that they think I am being hypocritical, and that I have no right to complain whilst I myself sin. I must admit, I agree. I have no right to criticise other members whilst I myself post music, etc. For that reason, I promise that from this moment forth, I shall post no music, or anything of the sort. JazakumUllah. However, I will add, I will NEVER stand for the slandering of our scholars. That is unforgivable.

Dear Mushu,

I didnt thank your post because i believe that just because u sin urself doesnt mean that you are not allowed to criticize others (though this does not mean i approve ur criticism because i dont know what happened).

If that were true, nothing would be solved and nahy anel monkar would be impossible since we ALL sin!

[DoubleAgent4]

(salam)

Please give me a link to the threads

Also I hope that there is solid references to this. Not that I dont trust you bro, its just I do not want to be among those who accuse a scholar of a crime that has not been proven

http://www.shiachat....ni-good-or-bad/

woah

no slandering aalims

imam khomeini, ftw. plz respect at all times.

you just go on saying nonsensical stuff abt aalims and scholars, please.

It's sad to see so many Shias who are ignorant of these issues The world is not in black and white. Even from my own friends I see this issue arising which is really worrying. Someone I know once said 'well you can't compare Iran with Saudi, Saudi kills Shias whilst Iran doesn't'. When someone makes a claim like that then that means they're truly blind. I don't blame them though. Sometimes it's easier to live in your own bubble and stay oblivious too all that is taking place in the Muslim Ummah...

Edited September 1, 2011 by Hawraa29

[Maula Dha Mallang]

http://www.shiachat....ni-good-or-bad/

thats one

this is the other one:

i start at post #151 (thats right, the khomeini posters made 150 whinyass posts before i could even start, what hope did they have to listen to my words?)

[Guest Mushu]

How do you decide who counts as an aalim?

By their deeds. I think we'd all agree that Syed Al-Khoei, Al-Shaheed Baqir Al-Sadr, and our other Maraji3 and prominent scholars are 'ulama'.

Firstly, do you even know what the word muttawaatir means? I want you to show me, let's say, over 5 chains for each of these ahadeeth with, let's say, at least two being saheeh before I will personally believe in the tawwaatur of these two ahadeeth you have quoted.

Secondly, there is no such concept of "adalat al-`ulema" in Shia Islam, so stop treating them like they're infallible. There have been and still are corrupt `ulema in the world and there have been and there are innovators amongst the `ulema. If a person feels that someone, e.g. Khomeini, is a corrupt person for various reasons, they're entitled to their opinion if they can provide evidence for it.

(wasalam)

Yes thanks, probably better than you considering Arabic is my first language.

I dont need to provide anything, Syed Al-Khoei saying that it's mutawatir and providing an explanation is enough. Unless you think you're in a better position to check the validity and tafseer of a hadith than Syed Al-Khoei?

I agree with you 100% on your second point, but you are slightly inaccurate. There are many corrupt 'mua3amams' (people who where an a3mama), not corrupt 'alims'. A corrupt alim wouldnt make sense, because then he wouldnt be an alim. Its like saying 'an unholy saint'. Narrations say that Imam Al-Mahdi (as) will slaughter 80,000 mu3amams on the river of Kufa, so yeahh, you're right.

last time i checked, sis hawraa wasnt responsible for the deaths of hundreds/ thousands of innocent people, and the opression of the shirazis and others and god only knows how many thousands of others over a period of 3 decades.

hawra > khomeini

Neither was Syed Al-Khomeini. You are reading inaccurate literature written by the pro-Shah opposition. Be careful with your words my dear MDM, whilst it is indeed a Shia characteristic to oppose a tyrant, it is also a hideous crime to slander a scholar.

Most of the maraja3 respect and love Syed Al-Khomeini. Are they all wrong and you right?

BTW, @Shirazis, its a wonder how some of you can be so ill-manared. Whilst I personally do not agree with the Shirazi scholar's schools of thoughts, I must respect and admire their akhlaq, which is famed amongst Shia scholars.

http://www.shiachat....ni-good-or-bad/

It's sad to see so many Shias who are ignorant of these issues The world is not in black and white. Even from my own friends I see this issue arising which is really worrying. Someone I know once said 'well you can't compare Iran with Saudi, Saudi kills Shias whilst Iran doesn't'. When someone makes a claim like that then that means they're truly blind. I don't blame them though. Sometimes it's easier to live in your own bubble and stay oblivious too all that is taking place in the Muslim Ummah...

Have you seen how Syed Al-Khomeini lived? Have you seen how Ahmedinajad lives?

Those are not the lifestyles of tyrants.

Its sad how Iranians can be so ungrateful to the man who liberated you and freed you. He made your country great, and you spit on him.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Mushu

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Neither was Syed Al-Khomeini. You are reading inaccurate literature written by the pro-Shah opposition. Be careful with your words my dear MDM, whilst it is indeed a Shia characteristic to oppose a tyrant, it is also a hideous crime to slander a scholar.

my [Edited Out] you didnt even click on the links did you? you just assumed that they would be wrong?

for example, is ayatollah montazeri - khomeinis RIGHT HAND MAN in the toppling of the shah, the one who would be WF before khamenei came along, part of the pro-shah opposition? if he testified his whole life what he witnessed (first hand and speaking to guards and speaking to prisoners/ former prisoners), he sent public letters to khomeini begging khomeini to stop the madness and in fact the only reason he was fired was because he bought these issues into the light while khomeini wanted to keep them hidden.

what did khomeini reply? that montazeri was "sadaloh" - a simple minded person/ idiot/ naive. he had been tricked by MKO agents *facepalm*. a coverup equal in lameness to bill clintons statements about monica lewinsky.

someone who was an ayatollah uzama at the time, who khomeini kept near him and was with him throughout the revolution suddenly became simple minded, and even though there is plenty of info which backs up his claims. of course the alternate is that montazeri was right, but saying that will make me a mushrik for daring to question "imam" khomeini right?

Most of the maraja3 respect and love Syed Al-Khomeini. Are they all wrong and you right?

this is a myth. scratch the surface and you will find something much different.

BTW, @Shirazis, its a wonder how some of you can be so ill-manared. Whilst I personally do not agree with the Shirazi scholar's schools of thoughts, I must respect and admire their akhlaq, which is famed amongst Shia scholars.

the only shirazi here is hawraa. her manners are impeccable. who are you referring to?

Edited September 2, 2011 by Maula Dha Mallang

[Yasoob Al Deen]

Yes thanks, probably better than you considering Arabic is my first language.

Chill out. I meant according to the definition of ilm ad-dirayah.

I dont need to provide anything, Syed Al-Khoei saying that it's mutawatir and providing an explanation is enough. Unless you think you're in a better position to check the validity and tafseer of a hadith than Syed Al-Khoei?

Please provide for me a source in Arabic (or quote it) where Khui quoted these two ahadeeth and proved their tawaatur.

I agree with you 100% on your second point, but you are slightly inaccurate. There are many corrupt 'mua3amams' (people who where an a3mama), not corrupt 'alims'. A corrupt alim wouldnt make sense, because then he wouldnt be an alim. Its like saying 'an unholy saint'. Narrations say that Imam Al-Mahdi (as) will slaughter 80,000 mu3amams on the river of Kufa, so yeahh, you're right.

Sure.

Its sad how Iranians can be so ungrateful to the man who liberated you and freed you. He made your country great, and you spit on him.

I know little about Khomeini and whether he was good or bad, I would just like to point out that Hitler also liberated Germany and made it great.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Yasoob Al Deen

[Abu'l Khattab]

By their deeds. I think we'd all agree that Syed Al-Khoei, Al-Shaheed Baqir Al-Sadr, and our other Maraji3 and prominent scholars are 'ulama'.

Great, I know some good mannered salafis, they'll be relieved to hear that you're an aalim according to them. :rolleyes:

Be more specific.

Yes thanks, probably better than you considering Arabic is my first language.

So anyone who speaks arabic at home is suddenly an arabic expert? Yasoob knows arabic too, fail.

BTW, @Shirazis, its a wonder how some of you can be so ill-manared. Whilst I personally do not agree with the Shirazi scholar's schools of thoughts, I must respect and admire their akhlaq, which is famed amongst Shia scholars.

Nasir Makerem Shirazi maybe :lol:

Edited September 2, 2011 by haidar al karrar

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Nasir Makerem Shirazi maybe :lol:

[baradar_jackson]

It's sad to see so many Shias who are ignorant of these issues The world is not in black and white. Even from my own friends I see this issue arising which is really worrying. Someone I know once said 'well you can't compare Iran with Saudi, Saudi kills Shias whilst Iran doesn't'. When someone makes a claim like that then that means they're truly blind. I don't blame them though. Sometimes it's easier to live in your own bubble and stay oblivious too all that is taking place in the Muslim Ummah...

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[Guest Mushu]

my [Edited Out] you didnt even click on the links did you? you just assumed that they would be wrong?

for example, is ayatollah montazeri - khomeinis RIGHT HAND MAN in the toppling of the shah, the one who would be WF before khamenei came along, part of the pro-shah opposition? if he testified his whole life what he witnessed (first hand and speaking to guards and speaking to prisoners/ former prisoners), he sent public letters to khomeini begging khomeini to stop the madness and in fact the only reason he was fired was because he bought these issues into the light while khomeini wanted to keep them hidden.

what did khomeini reply? that montazeri was "sadaloh" - a simple minded person/ idiot/ naive. he had been tricked by MKO agents *facepalm*. a coverup equal in lameness to bill clintons statements about monica lewinsky.

someone who was an ayatollah uzama at the time, who khomeini kept near him and was with him throughout the revolution suddenly became simple minded, and even though there is plenty of info which backs up his claims. of course the alternate is that montazeri was right, but saying that will make me a mushrik for daring to question "imam" khomeini right?

this is a myth. scratch the surface and you will find something much different.

the only shirazi here is hawraa. her manners are impeccable. who are you referring to?

I'll look into it more then!

As for the other statement, I think the person to whom it was directed, knows.

Chill out. I meant according to the definition of ilm ad-dirayah.

Please provide for me a source in Arabic (or quote it) where Khui quoted these two ahadeeth and proved their tawaatur.

Sure.

I know little about Khomeini and whether he was good or bad, I would just like to point out that Hitler also liberated Germany and made it great.

Okay, fair enough, my bad bro, I thought you were trying to patronise me.

Brother, I will sincerely try and source it, but I will be honest with you, it's unlikely. I read it in an old-school Arabic book, which is by now probably in some box somewhere with a million other books, covered with feet of dust.

Great, I know some good mannered salafis, they'll be relieved to hear that you're an aalim according to them. :rolleyes:

Be more specific.

So anyone who speaks arabic at home is suddenly an arabic expert? Yasoob knows arabic too, fail.

Nasir Makerem Shirazi maybe :lol:

I didn't even understand your point. Try and be more coherent.

I'd say I do a little more than speak Arabic at home. I've lived in the Middle-East for several years. Also, I have some Arabic language qualifications.

Actually, i'd say my Arabic is probably better than any language you speak, to be honest.

[Abu'l Khattab]

I'd say I do a little more than speak Arabic at home. I've lived in the Middle-East for several years. Also, I have some Arabic language qualifications.

Actually, i'd say my Arabic is probably better than any language you speak, to be honest.

Oh mashallah, you lived in a place where they speak modern arabic, not classical.

Qualifications? Do you mean a course you took at school or something?

You're arrogant about it too, don't you know what Allah says about arrogance?

[Guest Mushu]

Oh mashallah, you lived in a place where they speak modern arabic, not classical.

Qualifications? Do you mean a course you took at school or something?

You're arrogant about it too, don't you know what Allah says about arrogance?

They also teach Arabic. See, I went to school whilst I lived there.

Nope. I mean qualifications. Recognised, public ones.

Who is more arrogant, the one who thought himself more knowledgeable, and then attempted to patronise, or the one who defends himself?

[Abu'l Khattab]

And no, they're not kissing.

Edited September 2, 2011 by haidar al karrar

[Guest Mushu]

On 9/2/2011 at 2:32 PM, haidar al karrar said:

And no, they're not kissing.

Even if they are kissing, they are only doing the Mustahab 3 kisses that the Prophat (SAWAS) taught us!

[Abu'l Khattab]

Btw, I still wanna see the Syed al Khoei thing you said. Not for arguing, I just want to see how he explained his position on it.

[Hameedeh]

Salam alaikum dear brothers and sisters,

I will NEVER stand for the slandering of our scholars. That is unforgivable.

(bismillah)

(wasalam)

^ I like this.

For those who slander scholars: