To Those Way Say That Aisha Was Around 20

[El-shia]

I have a question to those who say that Aisha was around 20 when she married the Prophet .

Ofcourse there are theories and there is research that backs this claim up .

What do those who believe that Aisha was around 20 when married to the prophet(pbuh about this ahadith?

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"The Prophet (SAWAS) entered upon (had sexual intercouse with) `Aa'ishah when she was 10 years old, and that one does not enter a jaariyah (girl) until she became a woman."

Source:

* Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7 pg. 388 - 389, hadeeth # 1

Grading:

* Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH

--> Mir'aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 24, pg. 235

[Haydar Husayn]

Let me explain to you how it works with a certain brand of Shias.

First they start with a certain conclusion, then they look at the texts. There are then several possibilities:

1) Shia sources back them up. Then everything is fine, and they will use these sources. If the Sunni sources claim something different, then even better since many Shias sadly think of their religion as 'anti-Sunni' Islam.

2) Shia sources contradict their claim. Then they check the Sunni sources.

2a)If the Sunnis back them up then they reject the Shia sources under the pretext of 'not worshipping rijal', while accepting the Sunni ones under the pretext of 'having an understanding of how history was recorded' (conveniently sidestepping the problem that we should be taking our religion exclusively from Shia sources, particularly when they actually speak on a matter)..

2b)If the Sunni sources also go against them, then it gets messier. That's when they start going towards odd or minority beliefs/interpretations, in either sect, in order to justify their pre-formed conclusion. It is also possible to use a purely 'logical' argument to reject all the sources.

3)Shia sources are silent.

3a)If the Sunni sources agree with them, then they take those.

3b)If the Sunni sources disagree, then they reject them since Sunnis are liars. We are then basically in case 4).

4)Both sources are silent. Then they can really go to town, and make up whatever they want, and if you ask for proof they will ask you to prove that it isn't true.

We are in situation 2b here. The reasoning goes like this: "Aisha was bad, Sunnis make a big deal out of her young age, therefore she must be older (logic). A Sahih Shia hadith says she was 10, but I don't worship rijal so it's not important. Sahih Sunni hadiths say she was 9/10, but they are Sunnis (and most importantly they don't agree with me). Some modern apologetic Sunnis have made some convoluted indirect arguments that say she was 13/18/20/whatever, so I will take that."

As you can see, pure intellectual dishonesty.

[Ali Hayder]

Except the age of Aisha isn't a religious matter at all. Its a historical matter and history is muddy on the issue, as is the case for most people born in the Makkan era. Though what is clear that her being 6/9 is extremely unlikely, no matter what some hadiths (conveniently narrated by herself) say.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Ali Hayder

[ALI77ZM]

SALAM,

OK, ANOTHER QUESTION HOW LONG DID THIS AISHA LEAVE WITH OUR PROPHET(P.U.B) AND HOW LONG DID SHE LIVE IN THIS WORLD(LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE A BIG DIVISION)? WAS IS THE DAUGHTER OF ABU BAKR?

[Haydar Husayn]

Except the age of Aisha isn't a religious matter at all. Its a historical matter and history is muddy on the issue, as is the case for most people born in the Makkan era. Though what is clear that her being 6/9 is extremely unlikely, no matter what some hadiths (conveniently narrated by herself) say.

History is not muddy on this issue, and Aisha is not the only one to narrate that she was 9/10. Did you completely miss the hadith given in the OP? I would grant some slight uncertainty as to her exact age, due to the fact that I doubt anyone in those days knew exactly when they were born (just like many people today is some parts of the world). So for example, she could very well have been 11. However, to suggest she was around 20 is ridiculous.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Haider Husayn

[Ali Hayder]

History is not muddy on this issue

Actually it is. There are historical narratives with Aisha narrating stories in Makka which would have been impossible if she was a baby. For example, she claims to have been a young girl (interestingly the same word used in this narration) when a Makkan surah was revealed (I believe it is Surah Qamar). This is recorded in Sirah Ibn Hishaam, which is one of the earliest historical sources.

, and Aisha is not the only one to narrate that she was 9/10. Did you completely miss the hadith given in the OP? I would grant some slight uncertainty as to her exact age, due to the fact that I doubt anyone in those days knew exactly when they were born (just like many people today is some parts of the world). So for example, she could very well have been 11, for example. However, to suggest she was around 20 is ridiculous.

I too agree that twenty is probably too high, but certainly in her teens is a possibility.

It is much more likely that this extremely young age was doctored in the Umayyad period, where they wanted to prove Aishah to be the most favourite wife of the Prophet (pbuh), around the same time that old age was being attributed to Khadijah (as) to bring her status down.

I didn't miss the hadith. But I am heavily suspicious of narrations that are brought out by Nader Zaveri. Randomly plucking out narrations without knowing the context of where, whom and why the narration was made is a dangerous game, imo.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Ali Hayder

[Haydar Husayn]

Actually it is. There are historical narratives with Aisha narrating stories in Makka which would have been impossible if she was a baby. For example, she claims to have been a young girl (interestingly the same word used in this narration) when a Makkan surah was revealed (I believe it is Surah Qamar). This is recorded in Sirah Ibn Hishaam, which is one of the earliest historical sources.

Yeah, I've read all the arguments, but they aren't very convincing. For example, you are assuming that we know for sure when Surah al Qamar was revealed, which is not the case to my knowledge. If there is uncertainty about ages in the Meccan period, there is even more uncertainty with regards to the timings of revelation.

I too agree that twenty is probably too high, but certainly in her teens is a possibility.

The very most I could imagine it being is 13, but I doubt it to be honest.

It is much more likely that this extremely young age was doctored in the Umayyad period, where they wanted to prove Aishah to be the most favourite wife of the Prophet (pbuh), around the same time that old age was being attributed to Khadijah (as) to bring her status down.

They already have plenty of narrations 'proving' that Aisha was the favourite wife, so I'm not sure if they had to doctor her age. Even if that were the case, then you would expect that there would be some narrations by other people giving alternate ages. Or the Imams (as) could have set the record straight. No such narrations exist however.

And for what reason do you consider her age to be 'extremely young'? Bibi Fatima (as) would have been around the same age when she married Imam Ali (as). We also know that in both Shia and Sunni Islam, it is lawful to consumate a marriage with a 9 year old girl. It is even lawful to have a muta with a 9 year old (unsurprisingly since muta is also a form of marriage).

I didn't miss the hadith. But I am heavily suspicious of narrations that are brought out by Nader Zaveri.

Why are you suspicious? He is getting the hadiths from Shia books, and the grading isn't his own. If it makes you feel better, you can read the hadith on brother macisaac's site as well:

[75] 5 ـ وعن علي بن إبراهيم، عن محمد بن عيسى، عن يونس، عن أبي أيوب الخراز، عن إسماعيل بن جعفر ـ في حديث ـ أن رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) دخل بعائشة وهي بنت عشر سنين، وليس يدخل بالجارية حتى تكون امرأة.

5 – And from Ali b. Ibrahim from Muhammad b. `Isa from Yunus from Abu Ayyub al-Kharraz from Isma`il b. Ja`far in a hadith that the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله entered upon (i.e. had intercourse with) `A’isha and she was ten years old, and that one does not enter upon a girl until she is a woman.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/preface-of-the-ibadat/chapter-4

Randomly plucking out narrations without knowing the context of where, whom and why the narration was made is a dangerous game, imo.

What difference would the context make to the fact that her age was given as 10?

I think people just need to accept that she was young, and get over it. It doesn't give her any special status, and her crimes are clear.