Al-quds Day Pakistan

-SeeKeR- · August 27, 2011

[Shakir 47:7] O you who believe ! if you help (the cause of) Allah, He will help you and make firm your feet.

Agha Jawad Naqvi had a good message for everyone who criticizes Al-Quds rally saying why not for Parachinar, Quetta etc. Al-Quds day is infact a symbol for all kinds of oppression going around the world, and when one comes out to protest on the day it's not just for Palestine but for everyone who is oppressed. Anyone who comes out on the day makes a promise to never be part of the oppression and always raise voice against it.

Here are some pictures from Al-Quds day in Pakistan.

Edited August 27, 2011 by -SeeKeR-

Mullah_Habib_uDeen · August 27, 2011

:yaali: great pictures

I wish the martyrs who got killed in previous years al quds demonstration (during ramadhan ) in quetta were also remembered .. :cry: seems they are forgotten :cry: It was probably the first horrible discriminate attack ever on a peacefull demonstration remembering al quds day in the world ,

I agree with agha naqvi , Its true that al quds is a symbol to protest all kinds of oppression , but a rally to bring attention of the atrocities that happens in parachinar and quetta are very much needed as well to raise awareness and it is important for all shias and muslims to unite and stand for our fellow brethren ! Fact is not many ppl (including shias ) have the slightest idea or clue what is happening there .

Edited August 27, 2011 by maniaac

**Marbles** · August 27, 2011

^ Thanks for the pictures -seeker-.

Al-Quds being the symbol for all kinds of oppression going around? I was under the impression that the symbol for all kinds of oppression was Karbala and our annual commemoration of it? When did al-Quds appropriate this symbolism? :unsure:

The thing is, sorry if I am too impertinent, but Shia in Pakistan need to take a break from the press releases of www.leader.ir and need to take out similar rallies regularly to protest for their own plight, rather than for the Sunnis on the tip of the Mediterranean. But as usual, Pakistanis won't do what is required, and waste time in useless pursuits.

**Haji 2003** · August 27, 2011

Shia in Pakistan need to take a break from the press releases of www.leader.ir and need to take out similar rallies regularly to protest for their own plight, rather than for the Sunnis on the tip of the Mediterranean. But as usual, Pakistanis won't do what is required, and waste time in useless pursuits.

That approach is wrong on so many different levels

One

Yes, but it is not really just about Sunnis at the tip of the mediterranean is it? It's about an hegemonic power in the middle east that is expanding and the reach of whose power is affecting millions of Muslims thousands of miles removed from Palestine.

The average Iraqi may have thought Pals had nothing to do with them, but it was Israeli lobbying that was partly responsible for the Iraq war.

As the past few months have shown Israel was instrumental in keeping in power an Egyptian despot who had effectively imprisoned his entire population.

Keep quiet if you want to, but your turn will come.

Two

Injustice is injustice, whoever it is against. There are many atheists, Christians and Jews who protest against the actions of the Zionist regime. These people also have reasons not to like Sunnis and Palestinians. But still they speak.

The Americans have martyrs such as Rachel Corrie, the Brits have Tom Hurndel - Shias have people like you making up excuses.

Three

Shia support for Pals is a slap in the face for the Mubaraks of this world. If Shias are supporting the Pals it makes Sunni collaboration with the Zionist regime even more embarrassing for the regimes of the hypocrits.

Masjid-e-Tulsi · August 27, 2011

[Shakir 47:7] O you who believe ! if you help (the cause of) Allah, He will help you and make firm your feet.
Agha Jawad Naqvi had a good message for everyone who criticizes Al-Quds rally saying why not for Parachinar, Quetta etc. Al-Quds day is infact a symbol for all kinds of oppression going around the world, and when one comes out to protest on the day it's not just for Palestine but for everyone who is oppressed. Anyone who comes out on the day makes a promise to never be part of the oppression and always raise voice against it.
Here are some pictures from Al-Quds day in Pakistan.

So what proof does he have to back up his extraordinary ridiculous claims, besides in what way does the quoted Verse of the Quran have any relevance to what he wishes to proove?

Delusions Delusions I am afraid that it is just that.

-SeeKeR- · August 27, 2011

:yaali: great pictures
I wish the martyrs who got killed in previous years al quds demonstration (during ramadhan ) in quetta were also remembered .. :cry: seems they are forgotten :cry: It was probably the first horrible discriminate attack ever on a peacefull demonstration remembering al quds day in the world ,
I agree with agha naqvi , Its true that al quds is a symbol to protest all kinds of oppression , but a rally to bring attention of the atrocities that happens in parachinar and quetta are very much needed as well to raise awareness and it is important for all shias and muslims to unite and stand for our fellow brethren ! Fact is not many ppl (including shias ) have the slightest idea or clue what is happening there .

Actually a special recitation(kinda like a tarana) was done for them. They were also mentioned and commended for their efforts. As for rallies for other issues, they have already been taken out, i will try and find some pictures to upload. The event held on the martyrdom anniversary of Saheed arif in Islamabad also focused on this issue. They even did a strike in front of the parliament i think for several days for Parachinar.

Many times processions have been taken out after friday prayers for Quetta and Parachinar.

^ Thanks for the pictures -seeker-.
Al-Quds being the symbol for all kinds of oppression going around? I was under the impression that the symbol for all kinds of oppression was Karbala and our annual commemoration of it? When did al-Quds appropriate this symbolism? :unsure:
The thing is, sorry if I am too impertinent, but Shia in Pakistan need to take a break from the press releases of www.leader.ir and need to take out similar rallies regularly to protest for their own plight, rather than for the Sunnis on the tip of the Mediterranean. But as usual, Pakistanis won't do what is required, and waste time in useless pursuits.

Karbala was one event and from that many other events have come up that mark a day for the oppressed. If it wasn't for kerbala or Imam Hussain(a.s) we would never have had the guts to take on an enemy much bigger than us. Therefore think of kerbala as the parent event.

Lol bro you know what surprises me about all people who are so anti-iran or anti-WF....when it comes down to it, its only people tilted towards WF or pro iran that actually come out on the streets to protest, or collect relief good for the oppressed in parachinar, or give aid to people in DIK, or set up organizations like Shaeed foundation? If these are the people who need to right their head then where are those people who just criticize and always accuse these people of towing an iranian line? If they have some solution why don't they help their oppressed brothers in Pakistan? Don;t actions speak louder than words?! If you were to look at history of shias its people like shaheed arif who were heavily influenced by Imam Khomeni and trained by him who actually did some work, the rest are just involved in their talk and nothing else.

Yeah i will say this much that sometimes some individuals and organizations lose their balance and forget how to customize certain rules for the Pakistani environment but i guess that's due to lack of some proper leader. These things could only be balanced if more people joined the cause and gave their input. When only the same kind of people with the same exposure and background will keep coming up, change would be difficult. On a side note though this doesn't have anything to do with the Al-Quds rally.

I think as to the reason for supporting pal, bro haji has given a very good explanation.

So what proof does he have to back up his extraordinary ridiculous claims, besides in what way does the quoted Verse of the Quran have any relevance to what he wishes to proove?
Delusions Delusions I am afraid that it is just that.

Uhh what claims...?! I think the verse is self explanatory...no? It talks about people helping the cause of Allah(swt) and in turn Allah(swt) will help them. Iran and Hezb are two living examples of this verse. I think if you look at them you will understand what Agha jawad meant.

What delusions does he have, you need to be more clear cuz i am kinda lost... :unsure:

Edited August 27, 2011 by -SeeKeR-

guest 34193 · August 27, 2011

The average Iraqi may have thought Pals had nothing to do with them

Well that wouldn't exactly be true, as the Palestinians were amongst Saddam's biggest and most loyal supporters in the Arab world.

-SeeKeR- · August 27, 2011

^ I dont understand how that effects celebrating Al-Quds. Imam Hussain(a.s) showed mercy and akhlaq to his enemies which ultimately made them change sides and support Imam(a.s). Sometimes enemies are over taken by love and not by weapons. Al-Quds rally serves a lot of purposes and freedom of First Qiblah is not for the sake of Palestinians only, rather for every Muslim.

guest 34193 · August 27, 2011

Helping and supporting Nawasib is completely haram and in doing so one is committing a sin. From the Asl of Zayd an-Narsi:

زيد عن ابي عبد الله (ع) قال سئل إذا لم نجد اهل الولاية يجوز لنا ان نصدق ( نتصدق ) على غيرهم فقال إذا لم تجدوا اهل الولاية في المصر تكونون فيه فابعثوا بالزكوة المفروضة إلى اهل الولاية من غير اهل مصركم فاما ما كان في سوى المفروضة من صدقة فان لم تجدوا اهل الولاية فلا عليكم ان تعطوه الصبيان ومن كان في مثل عقول الصبيانممن لا ينصب ولا يعرف ما انتم عليه فيعاديكم ولا يعرف خلاف ما انتم عليه فيتبعه ويدين به وهم المستضعفون من الرجال والنساء والولدان تعطونهم دون الدرهم ودون الرغيف فاما ( واما خ د ) الدرهم التام فلا تعطي الا اهل الولاية الا ان يرق قلبك عليه فتعطيه الكسرة من الخبز والقطعة من الورق فاما الناصب فلايرقن قلبك عليه ولا تطعمه ولا تسقهوان مات جوعا وعطشا ولا تغثه وان كان غرقا أو حرقا فاستغاث فقطه ولا تغثه فان ابى نعم المحمدى كان يقول من اشبع ناصبا ( ناصبيا ) ملاء الله جوفه نارا يوم القيمة معذبا كان أو مغفورا له

Zayd from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: He was asked when we have not found the people of walaya, is it permissible for us to give charity to other than them. So he said: When you have not found the people of walaya in the city in which you are, then send the obligatory zakat to the people of walaya from other than the people of your city. And as to what is apart from the obligatory of charity, so if you did not find the people of walaya then it is not against you to give it to the children and whosever is in the like of the intellects of children from whoever does not do nasb and does not recognize what you are upon that they would show hostility to you nor do they recognize the opposite of what you are upon that they would follow it and profess it as their religion. And they are the weakened ones (al-mustad`afeen) from the men, women and children. You give them below the dirham and below the loaf (of bread). And as to the complete dirham, then do not give (it) but to the people of walaya unless your heart is softened to him so then give him a morsel of bread and a sliver of leafage (?). And as to the Nasib, then do not soften your heart to him, do not feed him and do not give him to drink even if he dies hungry and thirsty. And do not rescue him even if he is drowning or burning and he calls for help. So cut him (off) and do not rescue him, for verily my father, an excellent Muhammadan, would say: Whoever quenches the thirst of a Nasib, Allah will fill his throat with fire on the day of the resurrection whether he be punished or forgiven.

As to Jerusalem and such, while sure there is some historical religious background there, for us Shi`a it is not a place of such great significance. The masjid of Kufa is holier to us. It was the Banu Umayya who based themselves in Shams that then included Jerusalem who wanted to encourage the Muslims to believing that that area was of great holiness and importance to our religion.

-SeeKeR- · August 27, 2011

^Wow thanks so much bro. I am so surprised that Imam Khomeni forgot to read it and fell under the propaganda of Bannu Ummayah. so weird how these scholars study for so many years and still manage to overlook such details....*sigh*...what a tragedy.

Edited August 27, 2011 by -SeeKeR-

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

^^ Downplaying the significance of Al-Aqsa is pure evil. God didn't make it the qibla for every Prophet that ever existed for no apparent reason. Similarly, generalizing every Sunni as a Nasibi is just as evil. I wonder if you'd encourage Shia political pacification if Mecca was also occupied by Zionists. Using ahadith to manipulate political stances is no less as low as when Mu'awiya used the Qur'an against Imam Ali (as).

Stop your dirty games.

guest 34193 · August 27, 2011

I didn't generalize every "Sunni" as a Nasibi, though the definition of one is much broader than you might want to admit:

[ 12548 ] 3 ـ وفي ( عقاب الأعمال ) عن أبيه ، عن أحمد بن إدريس ، عن محمد بن أحمد ، عن إبراهيم بن إسحاق ، عن عبدالله بن حماد ، عن عبدالله بن سنان ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : ليس الناصب من نصب لنا أهل البيت ، لأنك لا تجد رجلا يقول : أنا ابغض محمدا وآل محمد ، ولكن الناصب من نصب لكم وهو يعلم أنكم تتولونا وأنكم من شيعتنا .

وفي ( العلل ) عن محمد بن الحسن ، عن محمد بن يحيى ، عن محمد بن أحمد ، مثله (2) .

وفي ( صفات الشيعة ) : عن محمد بن علي ماجيلويه ، عن عمه ، عن محمد بن علي ، عن المعلي بن خنيس ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) مثله (3) .

أقول : وفي معناه أحاديث كثيرة في تفسير الناصب (4) ، ويأتي ما يدل على وجوب الخمس في ماله (5) .

3 – And in `Iqab al A`maal from his father from Ahmad b. Idris from Muhammad b. Ahmad from Ibrahim b. Ishaq from `Abdullah b. Hammad from `Abdullah b. Sinan from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام, who said:

The nasib is not he who is hostile towards us, the Ahl al Bayt, for surely you shall not find a man say: I hold malice for Muhammad and the progeny of Muhammad. But the nasib is one who is hostile towards you and he knows that you hold love for us and that you are of our Shi`ah.

And in al `Ilal (`Ilal al Sharaa'i`) from Muhammad b. al Hasan from Muhammad b. Yahya from Muhammad b. Ahmad, likewise.

And in Sifaat al Shi`ah: from Muhammad b. `Ali Majiluyyeh from his uncle from Muhammad b. `Ali from al Mu`alla b. Khunays from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام, likewise.

<div>

[ 12559 ] 14 ـ محمد بن إدريس في آخر ( السرائر ) نقلا من كتاب مسائل الرجال ) : عن محمد بن أحمد بن زياد وموسى بن محمد بن علي بن عيسى قال (1) : كتبت إليه ـ يعني : علي بن محمد ( عليه السلام ) ـ أسأله عن الناصب ، هل أحتاج في امتحانه إلى أكثر من تقديمه الجبت والطاغوت واعتقاد إمامتهما ؟ فرجع الجواب : من كان على هذا فهو ناصب .

14 – Muhammad b. Idris at the end of al Saraa’ir, quoting from the Kitab Masaa’il al Rijal: from Muhammad b. Ahmad b. Ziyad and Musa b. Muhammad b. `Ali b. `Isa (in the source too, except that the mentioned narrators have quoted it from Masaa'il of Muhammad b. `Ali b. `Isa), who said: I wrote to him, meaning `Ali b. Muhammad عليه السلام. I asked him about the nasib: Does his examination (i.e. determination of his status) require more than his giving precedence (or, offering) to al Jibt and al Taghut, and the belief in their (pl. dual) Imamate? So the reply was received: One who is upon this, he is a nasib.

<div>I was talking about the Palestinians in particular, who are notorious for their anti-Shi`a bigotry. Probably out of anyone in the Arab world, next to the Salafi Saudis, none are so firm in their hatred against us Rawafid. If that's not a Nasibi, I don't know what is.</div>

<div>And as to the significance of Jerusalem and Sham, I'm not making this stuff up. Why not actually read what our Imams said on the subject (instead of going with political slogans), as well as look at the history of Ummayad promotion of the area. Take this hadith from Tafsir al-`Ayyashi:</div>

<div>

13 - عن سلام الحناط عن رجل عن ابى عبد الله عليه السلام قال: سألته عن المساجد التى لها الفضل، فقال: المسجد الحرام ومسجد الرسول، قلت: والمسجد الاقصى جعلت فداك ؟ فقال: ذاك في السماء، إليه اسرى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله، فقلت: ان الناس يقولون: انه بيت المقدس ؟ فقال: مسجد الكوفة أفضل منه .

13 – From Sallam the stuffer from a man from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: I asked him about the masajid that have virtue (or, superiority). So he said: The Masjid al-haram and the Masjid of the Messenger. I said: And the Masjid al-Aqsa, may I be made your ransom? So he said: That is in Heaven, the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله journeyed by night to it. So I said: Verily the people say that it is Bayt al-Maqdis (i.e. in Jerusalem). So he said: The Masjid of Kufa is better than it.

</div>

</div>

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

http://www.sistani.o...&id=48&pid=2213

902. In Islam, great emphasis is laid on offering prayers in a mosque. Masjidul Haram is superior to all the mosques, and after it, the order of priority is as follows:
Masjidun Nabi (in Madina)
Masjid Kufa (in Kufa)
Masjid Baytul Maqdas (in Jerusalem)

Al-Quds Day Celebrated in Gaza - Thousands March http://www.presstv.i...ail/195955.html

Palestinians in the Gaza Strip marked the international Quds Day after the Friday prayers.
Carrying placards that denounce the occupation of Palestine demonstrators said they are ready to sacrifice their lives to end the Israeli occupation of Jerusalem al-Quds.
Palestinian factions also took part in this international event
Initiated by the late founder of the Islamic Revolution in Iran, Imam Rouhollah Khomeini, the International Quds Day marks the last Friday of the holy month of Ramadan, when Muslims throughout the globe hold rallies in support of the Palestinian resistance against what the late Imam referred to as the illegitimate Israeli regime occupying Palestine.
An Iftar banquet in the honor of the International Quds Day was held under the auspices of the Resistance Committee For Palestine which is funded by Lebanese Resistance Leader Seyed Hassan Nasrallah.
The participants in the Iftar banquet also lauded Imam Khomeini and the people of the Islamic Republic of Iran for their support of the Palestinians.
Palestinians have repeatedly said that they consider East al-Quds, which Israel occupied in 1967 and annexed in 1981, as the capital of their future state.
The Al-Quds Day is an opportunity for people around the world to show their support for the Palestinians who have lived under occupation for generations and hope that by next year on this day they will have gained their freedom.

macisaac, your attempt to shut the Shia up is no different than the Nasibis in Riyadh banning Al-Quds day marches. Your stance is the same stance as the Nasibis ruling Bahrain that stopped the Quds day marches. It is only the Nasibis that are stopping these marches.

Why are you and the Nasibis in the same boat in respect to Al-Aqsa commemoration?

guest 34193 · August 27, 2011

As expected, youtube links, presstv articles, slander and so on. Where's the satirical cartoons? On the other hand, I have presented ahadith from our own books narrated on the authority of our Imams (as). If you wish to discuss what our religion teaches, I suggest you put down the propaganda for while, and actually take the time to read its sources.

(and as to citing the English translation of the Persian Tawzih, you'll need to do better than that. I could show you for instance how in Sayyid al-Khoe'i's Tawzih it says that the fast of `Ashura is makrooh, while if you actually go to his dars al-kharij lectures he says the opposite and argues it's mustahabb.)

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

As expected, youtube links, presstv articles, slander and so on. Where's the satirical cartoons? On the other hand, I have presented ahadith from our own books narrated on the authority of our Imams (as). If you wish to discuss what our religion teaches, I suggest you put down the propaganda for while, and actually take the time to read its sources.

I read the sources.

They say down with Nasibis. I say down with Nasibis.

They say Masjid Al-Aqsa is the 4th Holiest Masjid in Islam. I say Masjid Al-Aqsa is the 4th Holiest Masjid in Islam.

The sources confirm what I've said.

What you're not answering is, how is it that you're in the same boat as the Nasibis as you both are calling for the stop of the Al-Quds day?

Why not answer the question?

And to prove that you're a hypocrite, here's another question.

Mecca and Madina are controlled by Nasibis. Are you suggesting we don't call for Mecca and Madina to be liberated because, like (according to you) Jerusalem, Mecca and Madina are controlled by Nasibis?

guest 34193 · August 27, 2011

I read the sources.
They say down with Nasibis. I say down with Nasibis.
They say Masjid Al-Aqsa is the 4th Holiest Masjid in Islam. I say Masjid Al-Aqsa is the 4th Holiest Masjid in Islam.
The sources confirm what I've said.

Really? Where? Give me Shi`i hadiths with full sourcing please that state that Masjid al-Aqsa 1) is in Jerusalem and 2) is the 4th holiest masjid in Islam (wait a sec, didn't you just say 3rd most holy above?).

What you're not answering is, how is it that you're in the same boat as the Nasibis as you both are calling for the stop of the Al-Quds day?
Why not answer the question?

Nasibis eat. You eat. How is that you're in the same boat as Nasibis as both of you eat?

(See the logical failure here?)

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

Really? Where? Give me Shi`i hadiths with full sourcing please that state that Masjid al-Aqsa 1) is in Jerusalem and 2) is the 4th holiest masjid in Islam (wait a sec, didn't you just say 3rd most holy above?).

Give me one Hadith that says Mecca and Madina are in Saudi Arabia.

Nasibis eat. You eat. How is that you're in the same boat as Nasibis as both of you eat?
(See the logical failure here?)

No. This is the logic failure.

1. You call Palestinians as Nasibis. Amongst the Palestinians are Shia (i know many of them personally). You can't group a race by a religion. That is failed logic.

2. How could all Palestinians be anti-Shia Nasibis, when they are celebrating a day declared by a Shia Scholar.

3. As I already said, Nasibis control Mecca and Madina. Using your logic, Muslims shouldn't ask for the liberation of Mecca and Madina, because it's controlled by Nasibis.

4. Similarly, by your failed logic, Kufa is controlled by non-Nasibis. If tomorrow it was controlled by Nasibis (like at the time of bani-umayya and bani-abbas), according to your logic, it shouldn't be liberated, because it's controlled by Nasibis.

Stop trying to fool people through your manipulation of the interpretation of hadith. It won't work.

Gypsy · August 27, 2011

(salam)

Everyone oppressed in the world should get his or her own day.

There is no reason why the Bahrani Shias should not get their own day. The Pakistani Shia should get their day too. If you don’t march there with your own banner, people will not even remember you or the cause you are fighting for.

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

From Wasaa'il Ash-Shia

http://www.rafed.net/books/hadith/wasael-5/w12.html

[6556] 14 ـ الحسن بن محمد الطوسي في ( مجالسه ) عن أبيه ، عن هلال بن محمد الحفار ، عن إسماعيل بن علي الدعبلي ، عن علي بن علي أخي دعبل ، عن
الرضا ( عليه السلام ) ، عن أبيه ، عن آبائه ، عن أمير المؤمنين ( عليهم السلام ) قال : أربعة من قصور الجنة في الدنيا : المسجد الحرام ، ومسجد الرسول ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) ، ومسجد بيت المقدس ، ومسجد الكوفة.
أقول : وتقدم ما يدل على ذلك ⁽¹⁾ ، ويأتي ما يدل عليه في الحج ، إن شاء الله ⁽²⁾.

ShiaBen · August 27, 2011

(salam)
Everyone oppressed in the world should get his or her own day.
There is no reason why the Bahrani Shias should not get their own day. The Pakistani Shia should get their day too. If you don’t march there with your own banner, people will not even remember you or the cause you are fighting for.

Well, that's what I was thinking. Two special days.

One for Al Quds which symbolizes Muslim unity.

One for local matters that symbolize internal issues.

Abbas_Zaidi · August 27, 2011

macissac no doubt you are a CIA agent out to create divisions amongst Muslims...

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

A whole section dedicated to the recommendation of doing Salah in Masjid Al-Aqsa.

http://www.rafed.net...sael-5/w12.html

64 ـ باب استحباب الصلاة في بيت المقدس واستحباب اختيار المسجد الأعظم على مسجد القبيلة واختياره على مسجد السوق

[6572] 1 ـ محمد بن علي بن الحسين بإسناده ، عن أبي حمزة الثمالي ، عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) قال : المساجد الأربعة : المسجد الحرام ، ومسجد رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) ، ومسجد بيت المقدس ، ومسجد الكوفة ، يا أبا حمزة ، الفريضة فيها تعدل حجة ، والنافلة تعدل عمرة.
[6573] 2 ـ محمد بن الحسن بإسناده عن أحمد بن محمد ، عن محمد بن حسان ، عن أبي محمد النوفلي ⁽¹⁾ ، عن النوفلي ، عن السكوني ، عن جعفر ، عن أبيه ، عن علي ( عليه السلام ) قال : صلاة في بيت المقدس تعدل
ألف صلاة ، وصلاة في المسجد الأعظم مائة صلاة ، وصلاة في مسجد القبيلة خمس وعشرون صلاة ، وصلاة في مسجد السوق اثنتا عشرة صلاة ، وصلاة الرجل في بيته وحده صلاة واحدة.

guest 34193 · August 27, 2011

From Wasaa'il Ash-Shia
http://www.rafed.net...sael-5/w12.html

JazakAllah khayr for the reference. I guess my question would be though, why would Amir al-Mu'mineen (a) be mentioning a masjid that was not even apparently in existence yet, but was constructed by the Umayyads? And how to reconcile it (if one can) with the hadith I quoted?

http://en.wikipedia....by_the_Umayyads

macissac no doubt you are a CIA agent out to create divisions amongst Muslims...

Did you forget Zionist Freemason Illumaniti?

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

macissac no doubt you are a CIA agent out to create divisions amongst Muslims...

Don't think so. But some genuine questions need to be asked in respect to the brother's intentions. He could be genuine. Sectarianism polarizes people, imbedding blind hatred, many have fallen into that trap, and whilst they may believe they're doing 'right', sometimes one needs to self-reflect.

JazakAllah khayr for the reference. I guess my question would be though, why would Amir al-Mu'mineen (a) be mentioning a masjid that was not even apparently in existence yet, but was constructed by the Umayyads? And how to reconcile it (if one can) with the hadith I quoted?

Umar of the Umayyads built the Golden Dome (Dome of the Rock). Al-Aqsa is a couple hundred meters away.

There is no reason why the Bahrani Shias should not get their own day. The Pakistani Shia should get their day too. If you don’t march there with your own banner, people will not even remember you or the cause you are fighting for.

There isn't. The Middle East must be freed from Takfiri rule. Both Sunnis AND Shia are suffering from Takfiri rule. There are more Sunnis dying in Pakistan and Afghanistan at the hands of the Takfiri Nasibis than there are Shia. And the Takfiri HQ is Riyadh.

**Marbles** · August 27, 2011

That approach is wrong on so many different levels
One
Yes, but it is not really just about Sunnis at the tip of the mediterranean is it? It's about an hegemonic power in the middle east that is expanding and the reach of whose power is affecting millions of Muslims thousands of miles removed from Palestine.
The average Iraqi may have thought Pals had nothing to do with them, but it was Israeli lobbying that was partly responsible for the Iraq war.
As the past few months have shown Israel was instrumental in keeping in power an Egyptian despot who had effectively imprisoned his entire population.
Keep quiet if you want to, but your turn will come.
Two
Injustice is injustice, whoever it is against. There are many atheists, Christians and Jews who protest against the actions of the Zionist regime. These people also have reasons not to like Sunnis and Palestinians. But still they speak.
The Americans have martyrs such as Rachel Corrie, the Brits have Tom Hurndel - Shias have people like you making up excuses.
Three
Shia support for Pals is a slap in the face for the Mubaraks of this world. If Shias are supporting the Pals it makes Sunni collaboration with the Zionist regime even more embarrassing for the regimes of the hypocrits.

Let me clarify.

I am all for calling a spade a spade. Injustice is indeed injustice and Palestinian case is a strong example. For that matter, every honest individual on earth would in principle support Palestinian cause and condemn the Zionist entity. I do. I am not arguing to keep quiet. Rather, in the context of Pakistani Shias, it is a matter of prioritizing. We are being butchered regularly in Pakistan and our killers let lose, yet our biggest rallies are for Al-Quds day or for Iraq. It's like North Koreans protesting against the discrimination suffered by Gypsies in Europe. I'd rather see North Koreans sort their own mess. I reiterate the golden rule of sorting our own house before else.

Pakistani Shias, and for that matter Sunnis etc, should offer moral support to the Palestinians, sure. Beyond that, every country would do what is in its interest, including Iran. The political line which would serve the interests of Syria or Iran may not be a good idea for the Pakistanis. Therefore, I believe that creating a local-based policy line by Pakistani Shias would serve us better than imitating .gov.ir.

Although the biggest enemy of, and threat to, Pakistani Shias are Salafi brigades, their bank-rollers and local protectors, our scholars infatuated with .gov.ir lambast Amreeka and Israel (in a fit of ritual sloganeering) rather than taking on the real cause of their suffering. They lose their credibility and argument as soon as they start off with sending lanat on Amreeka when a group of nasibi murderers kills dozens of Shia in a juloos. I don't remember the name but after the last Ashura attack, the Shia aalim on TV did just that.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Marbles

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

Although the biggest enemy, and threat, to Pakistani Shias are Salafi brigades, their bank-rollers and local protectors, our scholars infatuated with .gov.ir lambast Amreeka and Israel

You bring down Riyadh and Tel-Aviv, and the whole Takfiri structure crumbles from Chechnya, to Pakistan to Bahrain, Iraq and Palestine.

The source of all these Takfiris is Riyadh, which is being backed by Washington.

ShiaBen · August 27, 2011

Pakistani Shiites should never ever lose political interests with Iran.

It is because of Iran that people as far as Bosnia, Chechnya, and Pakistan, get aid from their basijis.

Pakistani Shiites should maintain their relations political or none-political with Iran, and in addition to that, focus on their internal issues.

But to cut off relations with Iran, and SOLELY focus on internal issues, might lead to disaster since you guys are surrounded by Wahabis.

Let me put it in this way, if you have Iman, things will get better in the future. There's an afterlife for that very reason. To give justice.

People have to put emphasis on both local problems as well as international ones.

guest 34193 · August 27, 2011

Umar of the Umayyads built the Golden Dome (Dome of the Rock). Al-Aqsa is a couple hundred meters away.

Read the link I gave you, it's for al-Aqsa. Both it and the Sakhra masjid were built in Umayyad times under `Abd al-Malik. The traditional story (which may not be true though) is that `Umar b. al-Khattab did an initial construction there on the advice of the former Jew Ka`b b. al-Ahbar who claimed it to be the spot where the Messenger (pbuh) went to in the night journey. What is there now though is not whatever `Umar built which would be long gone by now. One of the real problems with that story of it being the place of the isra (apart from it's dubious source) is that the Temple Mount at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) was used as a garbage dump. (There had been a Christian church there earlier, but it had been destroyed by the Persians and then left in ruin) There was no masjid there at the time.

**Marbles** · August 27, 2011

You bring down Riyadh and Tel-Aviv, and the whole Takfiri structure crumbles from Chechnya, to Pakistan to Bahrain, Iraq and Palestine.
The source of all these Takfiris is Riyadh, which is being backed by Washington.

The Riyadh-Tel Aviv Takfiri-Zionist nexus may be collaborating behind the scenes (they are) to put down Shia in Lebanon or Syria but this arrangement doesn't exist in any meaningful way at least in Pakistan. Only a far fetched interpretation of geopolitics could support such an assertion in the case of Pakistan. This is why I said that what is a good policy line for Lebanon or Syria may not, and is not, good for Pakistani Shia, many of who want to imitate Iranian sloganeering without thinking.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Marbles

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

doesn't exist in any meaningful way at least in Pakistan

The balance of power in Pakistan will shift if its Washington-Riyadh ally loses its influence. Once a government collapses or shifts in terms of domestic policy, the direction in which it manipulates the public also shifts.

ShiaBen · August 27, 2011

The Riyadh-Tel Aviv Takfiri-Zionist nexus may be collaborating behind the scenes (they are) to put down Shia in Lebanon or Syria but this arrangement doesn't exist in any meaningful way at least in Pakistan. Only a far fetched interpretation of geopolitics could support such an assertion in the case of Pakistan. This is why I said that what is a good policy line for Lebanon or Syria may not, and is not, good for Pakistani Shia, many of who want to imitate Iranian sloganeering without thinning.

Maybe they aren't just sloganeering. Maybe there are some additional grassroots efforts to get Shiite Pakistanis involved in their own issues as well.

You have to realize, you guys are BADLY outnumbered by those terrorist fanatics that seek to slay you guys everyday.

So even when these Shiite communities spend lots of time and money to improve their situation, it might still not be enough only because these guys never stop bothering these communities. It's just the way it is.

Even if these communities were not to get involved in Iranian or Syrian sloganeering as you suggest, it's still not going to change their internal situation at all.

**Ya Aba 3abdillah** · August 27, 2011

There was no masjid there at the time.

Are you suggesting that the temple-mount (Solomon's Temple) was built on top of a rubbish tip?

Bayt Al-Muqaddas is the whole Temple Mount. A massive dome should be built over the whole structure.

**Marbles** · August 27, 2011

Pakistani Shiites should never ever lose political interests with Iran.
It is because of Iran that people as far as Bosnia, Chechnya, and Pakistan, get aid from their basijis

Oh please give us a break, bro will you.

We don't want Riyadh interfering in any way in our affairs. Similarly, I don't want us Pakistanis Shia to do Iran's bidding either. It is exactly this reason, that is, turning Pakistan into a battlefield of proxy wars between Iran and Saudia that Pakistan has become a rotten place for Shia, as well as Barelvi Sunnis, to live. Before 80s, things were just fine.

I am also not arguing for cutting off ties with Iran, either nationally or by Pakistani Shia. But guns, weapons and money to buy them from any quarter to any faction in Pakistan is not welcomed.

guest 34193 · August 27, 2011

Are you suggesting that the temple-mount (Solomon's Temple) was built on top of a rubbish tip?
Bayt Al-Muqaddas is the whole Temple Mount. A massive dome should be built over the whole structure.

Sigh... I'm saying do you really think the Prophet (pbuh) did isra and prayed with the prophets on a garbage dump? As to it being the location of Solomon's Temple, even that is up in the air. In fact Solomon's Temple may have been located some distance away from it, and what is now called the Temple Mount is actually the remnants of a Roman fortress (Fort Antonia)

**Marbles** · August 27, 2011

You have to realize, you guys are BADLY outnumbered by those terrorist fanatics that seek to slay you guys everyday.

You are conflating the percentage of Sunnis in Pakistan relative to Shias with Saudi supported Shia-killing brigades. In fact, Shias are not outnumbered by their killers at all. The killers are only a few jihadist-cum-sectarian groups. The problem is that the Pakistani establishment has political interests in propping up those killing mafias because they do the establishment's bidding in Afghanistan and Kashmir when needed. It's a matter of criminal neglect on the part of Pakistani establishment which turns a blind eye toward the plight of ordinary Shias, and Sunnis, who become targets of Takfiri brigades.

It is also pertinent to note that despite all the horrific tales of Shia killing in Pakistan, there have been no real riots, participated in by ordinary Shias and Sunnis, in Pakistan ever. This tells a lot about the societal dynamics of Pakistan. The sectarianism in fact is an imported, and constantly propped up, phenomenon. Shias still are the most freest (after Iran) to observe their religion in Pakistan, despite all the mayhem. Ironical I know.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Marbles

Sign In

Al-quds Day Pakistan

Recommended Posts

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Haji 2003

Abbas.

Marbles

Posted Images

Join the conversation

Recently Browsing 0 members

Topics