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heba1010

Co Wife Question

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Just because he has muta with a woman, does not mean that he is necessarily incapable of meeting the needs of his permanent wives. If he isn't satisfying his wives, then I would agree that he shouldn't be doing muta, all other things being equal.

Well, now you are in a position of saying the Prophet (pbuh) potentially abused muta, since it is hard to imagine that all his wives had 'female problems' at the same time when he did muta. And certainly, considering the little time he had to spend with each wife, they would have appreciated the extra time. Imam Ali (as) also almost certainly had mutas with women while married to several wives. And generally, the Imams (as) don't seem to have put any restrictions of the type you are suggesting on muta.

For example:

13 – And by the isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Ashyam from Marwan b. Muslim from Isma`il b. al-Fadl al-Hashimi. He said: Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said to me: Have you done mut`a since you have gone out from your family? I said: Due to the abundance of what is with me of wives, Allah has made me needless of it. He said: And even if you are needless, for verily I love that you should revive the Sunna of the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله.

http://www.tashayyu....ability-of-muta

or

[ 26425 ] 6 ـ محمد بن علي بن الحسين بإسناده عن موسى بن بكر ، عن زرارة ، عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) ـ في حديث ـ قال : وله أن يتمتع إن شاء وله امرأة وإن كان مقيما معها في مصره .

6 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn by his isnad from Musa b. Bakr from Zurara from Abu Ja`far عليه السلام in a hadith wherein he said: And (it is allowed) for him to do mut`a if he wants while he has a wife, even if she is residing with him in his city.

Well yes, precautions should be taken. But unless in extreme circumstances, it is better to avoid doing muta with a fornicatress anyway. Better to select a believing Shia woman (although attitudes in this day and age make that more difficult than it perhaps should be). As long as the right kind of women is selected, it's relatively unlikely she will be carrying any diseases. What with the iddah period, it's not that easy even for a woman constantly doing muta to have many sexual partners.

Yes, I agree. Contrary to what you might think, I am not advocating men being cruel to their wives. The Prophet (pbuh) tought kindness to women, and we should follow his example. The only thing is a wife should in return not impinge on her husband's rights as long as he is meeting his responsibilities.

Ok I am too lazy to cut the other parts out of your post but I am answering to the female problems part. One thing you should know is that most women who are around each other all of the time or live in close quarters that time of the month usually coincides for them. This is too much information but my neighbors that I see every day this happened for us.....after spending a couple of hours a day together talking or drinking coffee (we don't even live together) the woman's curse comes at the same time....LOL. It also happened when my MIL, 2 SIL's and myself were all living in the same house. So for all of you men who are thinking about marrying multiple women and having them all live close to each other and see each other all of the time be careful Hahahaha it could be too dangerous to go home at the time of the month then :shaytan:

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Ok I am too lazy to cut the other parts out of your post but I am answering to the female problems part. One thing you should know is that most women who are around each other all of the time or live in close quarters that time of the month usually coincides for them. This is too much information but my neighbors that I see every day this happened for us.....after spending a couple of hours a day together talking or drinking coffee (we don't even live together) the woman's curse comes at the same time....LOL. It also happened when my MIL, 2 SIL's and myself were all living in the same house. So for all of you men who are thinking about marrying multiple women and having them all live close to each other and see each other all of the time be careful Hahahaha it could be too dangerous to go home at the time of the month then :shaytan:

Somehow I had a feeling you were going to make this point. However, I don't know if this could apply to the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) given the number of them, and the fact that they all had seperate living quarters. Anything is possible though, I guess. In any case, the hadiths are clear enough.

Edited by Haider Husayn

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Somehow I had a feeling you were going to make this point. However, I don't know if this could apply to the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) given the number of them, and the fact that they all had seperate living quarters. Anything is possible though, I guess. In any case, the hadiths are clear enough.

Had the feeling I would make what point?

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A woman can stipulate in the marriage contract that if the man takes another wife, she has the right of divorce.

This is permitted in Shari'a faqat (no question about it).

She can't stop him having another relationship (or what they call an affair in the west).

But she can demand that if he does get into an affair, she can leave him, and if she does, he has no argument against it.

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That when women live together their menstrual cycles tend to synchronise.

So you knew about this already? Also you don't necessarily have to live together, it only takes seeing someone a few hours every day. It can also spread to people that you don't communicate with. For example someone sees her neighbor every day and every night the woman's neighbor goes to a house 10 minutes away to see her sister......eventually all 3 of them coincide even though the other women doesn't even really know her neighbors sister in law. Anyway way off topic sorry.

A woman can stipulate in the marriage contract that if the man takes another wife, she has the right of divorce.

This is permitted in Shari'a faqat (no question about it).

She can't stop him having another relationship (or what they call an affair in the west).

But she can demand that if he does get into an affair, she can leave him, and if she does, he has no argument against it.

Be careful Ya Aba they will call you evil.

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A woman can stipulate in the marriage contract that if the man takes another wife, she has the right of divorce.

This is permitted in Shari'a faqat (no question about it).

She can't stop him having another relationship (or what they call an affair in the west).

But she can demand that if he does get into an affair, she can leave him, and if she does, he has no argument against it.

Isn't think there is an argument that such agreements aren't valid? In any case most women do not put such a condition in their contracts.

So you knew about this already?

Yeah, it's a fairly well-known phenomenon, although I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of how and when it occurs. As far as I know, it's still not that well understood.

Also you don't necessarily have to live together, it only takes seeing someone a few hours every day. It can also spread to people that you don't communicate with. For example someone sees her neighbor every day and every night the woman's neighbor goes to a house 10 minutes away to see her sister......eventually all 3 of them coincide even though the other women doesn't even really know her neighbors sister in law. Anyway way off topic sorry.

I could be wrong, but as far as I know, it's not the case that the cycles of all women will always coincide. There is just an overall tendency among women (and some people are sceptical even of this).

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Isn't think there is an argument that such agreements aren't valid? In any case most women do not put such a condition in their contracts.

Yeah, it's a fairly well-known phenomenon, although I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of how and when it occurs. As far as I know, it's still not that well understood.

I could be wrong, but as far as I know, it's not the case that the cycles of all women will always coincide. There is just an overall tendency among women (and some people are sceptical even of this).

Everywhere I have ever lived it has always happened....just speaking from personal experience. As for the stipulation in the marriage contract, that just goes to show you that there is an argument for everything and many things can be interpreted in many different ways and each situation is unique.

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Isn't think there is an argument that such agreements aren't valid? In any case most women do not put such a condition in their contracts.

The agreement that isn't valid is stipulating that the man can't have a second wife. But what the girl is saying is "if he decides to have a second wife", then she can divorce him.

Yeh, most women don't. It's important that parents teach their daughters their rights before marriage.

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The agreement that isn't valid is stipulating that the man can't have a second wife. But what the girl is saying is "if he decides to have a second wife", then she can divorce him.

I see, thanks. What about in the case of him having a muta with another woman? If the same condition was put in, how could she prove her husband actually had a muta, unless he confessed?

Yeh, most women don't. It's important that parents teach their daughters their rights before marriage.

Yeah, I guess. It would also be good if they taught their daughters that there is nothing wrong with polygamy, but I guess that is too much to hope for.

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I see, thanks. What about in the case of him having a muta with another woman? If the same condition was put in, how could she prove her husband actually had a muta, unless he confessed?

Good question. Not really sure what are the requirements set to validate claims made by a wife that he's engaged in temp marriage. Guess there would have to be 'witnesses' for starters, i.e. those that can testify that they have knowledge of him engaging in temp marriage. Other than that, really, justice lies with Allah (swt) as he's committed haram by lying and breaking the marriage contract.

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I see, thanks. What about in the case of him having a muta with another woman? If the same condition was put in, how could she prove her husband actually had a muta, unless he confessed?

Yeah, I guess. It would also be good if they taught their daughters that there is nothing wrong with polygamy, but I guess that is too much to hope for.

I have a question....if she asked about it would it be a sin to lie and tell her no? Some would say yes and some would say no.

***edit***

Sorry ya abba you were posting at the same time as me

Edited by ImAli

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I have a question....if she asked about it would it be a sin to lie and tell her no? Some would say yes and some would say no.

The only way i can see it being halal to 'lie' (use taqiyya) is if he's afraid his life's in danger, which would be the case if he told his wife he's sleeping with someone else.

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The only way i can see it being halal to 'lie' (use taqiyya) is if he's afraid his life's in danger, which would be the case if he told his wife he's sleeping with someone else.

:shaytan:

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What about if a man, who is not travelling, just decides to have a muta with some woman, and doesn't tell his wife (or wives) about it. Is that abuse?

Whether it in itself is 'abuse' is debateable, maybe 'morally bankrupt' is a better term. It could constitute abuse if its leads to suffering though i guess; for instance: the consequences of a sexually transmitted disease. Maybe a person has a right to know if their health is being put at risk, thats just a notion, call me crazy. There is a problem of children born to people who were only together for sexual gratification and and do not wish to have a married life together. Very much a problem in the 'imoral' west of course.

There is no instance that im aware of in Islam where lying to your wife about sleeping with another woman is ever considered moral or right behaviour (i dont accept the lies about the Prophet(saw) having secret muta, i believe that the 'honey' interpretation of that verse is more likely to be correct as it doesnt degrade our Prophet(saw) who had the greatest standard of behaviour).

Like i mentioned in another thread, the relaxing of the muta rules to the extent where it leads to the same promoscuity as in non religous societies and all the associated problems with that might lead a person to conclude that it isnt preferable as it encourages laxity of standards regarding sexual encounters and leads to the breakdown of permanant marriages and the breaking apart of families which some people might consider to be damaging for individuals and society as a whole. It is not my perception that it is Islamic to indulge in lustfullness or to risk the unity of the family for base and selfish reasons, the opposite seems to be very much encouraged.

But maybe im wrong.

Perhaps there is a whole side to shia islam i havent experienced yet, where we are encouraged to indulge our base desires, and to have a child grow up without one of its biological parents is prefered or considered neautral to a permanant and secure family unit with both mother and father. Maybe it is indeed a good thing to not have trust in your relationship and to facilitate the suffering of your partner is not something to be discouraged... doesnt the Quran talk about the regard a person must have for their marrital partner though? im sure it mentioned about protecting one another and being fair...i might have mis-interpreted that.

Maybe we should be putting our base desires before such old fashioned ideas of family security and trust and 'honour' - what ever that is. Why should we demand these standards of ourselves and others? its a dog eat dog world, lets just think of ourselves and how we can best get gratification without the hassle of having to consider the ramifications, get your jollies why you can, you could die any minute.

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