Co Wife Question

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

I see, thanks. What about in the case of him having a muta with another woman? If the same condition was put in, how could she prove her husband actually had a muta, unless he confessed?

Good question. Not really sure what are the requirements set to validate claims made by a wife that he's engaged in temp marriage. Guess there would have to be 'witnesses' for starters, i.e. those that can testify that they have knowledge of him engaging in temp marriage. Other than that, really, justice lies with Allah (swt) as he's committed haram by lying and breaking the marriage contract.

[ImAli]

I see, thanks. What about in the case of him having a muta with another woman? If the same condition was put in, how could she prove her husband actually had a muta, unless he confessed?

Yeah, I guess. It would also be good if they taught their daughters that there is nothing wrong with polygamy, but I guess that is too much to hope for.

I have a question....if she asked about it would it be a sin to lie and tell her no? Some would say yes and some would say no.

***edit***

Sorry ya abba you were posting at the same time as me

Edited August 29, 2011 by ImAli

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

I have a question....if she asked about it would it be a sin to lie and tell her no? Some would say yes and some would say no.

The only way i can see it being halal to 'lie' (use taqiyya) is if he's afraid his life's in danger, which would be the case if he told his wife he's sleeping with someone else.

[ImAli]

The only way i can see it being halal to 'lie' (use taqiyya) is if he's afraid his life's in danger, which would be the case if he told his wife he's sleeping with someone else.

:shaytan:

[Ruq]

What about if a man, who is not travelling, just decides to have a muta with some woman, and doesn't tell his wife (or wives) about it. Is that abuse?

Whether it in itself is 'abuse' is debateable, maybe 'morally bankrupt' is a better term. It could constitute abuse if its leads to suffering though i guess; for instance: the consequences of a sexually transmitted disease. Maybe a person has a right to know if their health is being put at risk, thats just a notion, call me crazy. There is a problem of children born to people who were only together for sexual gratification and and do not wish to have a married life together. Very much a problem in the 'imoral' west of course.

There is no instance that im aware of in Islam where lying to your wife about sleeping with another woman is ever considered moral or right behaviour (i dont accept the lies about the Prophet(saw) having secret muta, i believe that the 'honey' interpretation of that verse is more likely to be correct as it doesnt degrade our Prophet(saw) who had the greatest standard of behaviour).

Like i mentioned in another thread, the relaxing of the muta rules to the extent where it leads to the same promoscuity as in non religous societies and all the associated problems with that might lead a person to conclude that it isnt preferable as it encourages laxity of standards regarding sexual encounters and leads to the breakdown of permanant marriages and the breaking apart of families which some people might consider to be damaging for individuals and society as a whole. It is not my perception that it is Islamic to indulge in lustfullness or to risk the unity of the family for base and selfish reasons, the opposite seems to be very much encouraged.

But maybe im wrong.

Perhaps there is a whole side to shia islam i havent experienced yet, where we are encouraged to indulge our base desires, and to have a child grow up without one of its biological parents is prefered or considered neautral to a permanant and secure family unit with both mother and father. Maybe it is indeed a good thing to not have trust in your relationship and to facilitate the suffering of your partner is not something to be discouraged... doesnt the Quran talk about the regard a person must have for their marrital partner though? im sure it mentioned about protecting one another and being fair...i might have mis-interpreted that.

Maybe we should be putting our base desires before such old fashioned ideas of family security and trust and 'honour' - what ever that is. Why should we demand these standards of ourselves and others? its a dog eat dog world, lets just think of ourselves and how we can best get gratification without the hassle of having to consider the ramifications, get your jollies why you can, you could die any minute.

[heba1010]

Eid Mubarak ! Undate on the co-wife .

I meet the woman in question. My husband has not formallly married her at all. He told me that have not been together. They were just talking to each other. I told him he was not correct in the way he is deal with this sister. She has no clue that he is going to have to share her time with my husband her soon to be future insha Allah . Im going to allow Alllah to deal with them both concering their conduct. I love my husband and I m not going to leave my husband due to this. But Im going to make Dua for this sister that she come in the truth . I know Allah is all I need in all things .

Thanks all my Shia Chat SIS and Bro

[ImAli]

Eid Mubarak ! Undate on the co-wife .

I meet the woman in question. My husband has not formallly married her at all. He told me that have not been together. They were just talking to each other. I told him he was not correct in the way he is deal with this sister. She has no clue that he is going to have to share her time with my husband her soon to be future insha Allah . Im going to allow Alllah to deal with them both concering their conduct. I love my husband and I m not going to leave my husband due to this. But Im going to make Dua for this sister that she come in the truth . I know Allah is all I need in all things .

Thanks all my Shia Chat SIS and Bro

I hope everything works out for you and that she is an easy woman to deal with.

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

Eid Mubarak ! Undate on the co-wife .

I meet the woman in question. My husband has not formallly married her at all. He told me that have not been together. They were just talking to each other. I told him he was not correct in the way he is deal with this sister. She has no clue that he is going to have to share her time with my husband her soon to be future insha Allah . Im going to allow Alllah to deal with them both concering their conduct. I love my husband and I m not going to leave my husband due to this. But Im going to make Dua for this sister that she come in the truth . I know Allah is all I need in all things .

Thanks all my Shia Chat SIS and Bro

mashAllah, really impressed by your patience, and will definitely remember you in my dua. Look at it this way, now you will have a sister to go shopping with lol.

[OneNoteSong]

If the husband can afford all that shopping...

[14infallibles]

^^ INDEED, I demand that the husband provides us with a detailed financial plan on how he is going to manage their shopping !

:D

Edited August 29, 2011 by 14infallibles

[ImAli]

If the husband can afford all that shopping...

LOOOOOOL

^^ INDEED, I demand that the husband provides us with a detailed financial plan on how he is going to manage their shopping !

:D

hahahahahahaha LOOOOL

[Haydar Husayn]

There is no instance that im aware of in Islam where lying to your wife about sleeping with another woman is ever considered moral or right behaviour (i dont accept the lies about the Prophet(saw) having secret muta, i believe that the 'honey' interpretation of that verse is more likely to be correct as it doesnt degrade our Prophet(saw) who had the greatest standard of behaviour).

Believe what you want. Whether or not the story of the Prophet (pbuh) having a secret muta is correct in that particular instance, it is a stone cold fact that muta was part of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). There are just too many ahadith on this for it to be false.

As for your 'criteria' for accepting or rejecting ahadith based on what you consider to be moral behaviour, I already had enough experience of that in the Aisha thread and other muta threads, so I know there is no point saying anything more about this.

Like i mentioned in another thread, the relaxing of the muta rules to the extent where it leads to the same promoscuity as in non religous societies and all the associated problems with that might lead a person to conclude that it isnt preferable as it encourages laxity of standards regarding sexual encounters and leads to the breakdown of permanant marriages and the breaking apart of families which some people might consider to be damaging for individuals and society as a whole. It is not my perception that it is Islamic to indulge in lustfullness or to risk the unity of the family for base and selfish reasons, the opposite seems to be very much encouraged.

I think you have it the wrong way round. It seems to me that people have been trying to restrict muta rules, not relaxing them. As for the breakdown of permanent marriage, it seems to me that this is rather up to the attitude of the permanent wives.

Eid Mubarak ! Undate on the co-wife .

I meet the woman in question. My husband has not formallly married her at all. He told me that have not been together. They were just talking to each other. I told him he was not correct in the way he is deal with this sister. She has no clue that he is going to have to share her time with my husband her soon to be future insha Allah . Im going to allow Alllah to deal with them both concering their conduct. I love my husband and I m not going to leave my husband due to this. But Im going to make Dua for this sister that she come in the truth . I know Allah is all I need in all things .

Thanks all my Shia Chat SIS and Bro

May Allah bless you. You are an example to all your lost sisters on here.

[ImAli]

Eid Mubarak ! Undate on the co-wife .

I meet the woman in question. My husband has not formallly married her at all. He told me that have not been together. They were just talking to each other. I told him he was not correct in the way he is deal with this sister. She has no clue that he is going to have to share her time with my husband her soon to be future insha Allah . Im going to allow Alllah to deal with them both concering their conduct. I love my husband and I m not going to leave my husband due to this. But Im going to make Dua for this sister that she come in the truth . I know Allah is all I need in all things .

Thanks all my Shia Chat SIS and Bro

Eid Mubarak ! Undate on the co-wife .

I meet the woman in question. My husband has not formallly married her at all. He told me that have not been together. They were just talking to each other. I told him he was not correct in the way he is deal with this sister. She has no clue that he is going to have to share her time with my husband her soon to be future insha Allah . Im going to allow Alllah to deal with them both concering their conduct. I love my husband and I m not going to leave my husband due to this. But Im going to make Dua for this sister that she come in the truth . I know Allah is all I need in all things .

Thanks all my Shia Chat SIS and Bro

But Im going to make Dua for this sister that she come in the truth . I know Allah is all I need in all things .

Does this mean she is not muslim or just not Shia?

[alimohamad40]

Salaam eid mubark

Op

Tell ur husband that ur concern is about haraam happening not about him marrying

It might be that he didn't commit any haraam and if he did then part of the fault is on the necks of those who prohibit and have negativity towards multiple marriage who forced him to be a coward about it afraid from their harm.

Make it clear to him that your not in their army and then he will have no reason to hide these stuff from you.

Like my wife I never hide these things from her and she actually proposes other potential wives for me. She got me married many times in the past and she actually chose the girls for me but things didn't work out or last long with them as we hoped.

Maybe all this is just conjecture and ur husband is religious and never crossed any boundary but I can't believe that you don't know him well enough to know what he is capable of.

Maybe this is ur eid present that I'll get a sister wife and believe me it's the best present from god so don't throw it away with ur attitude.

Ur family will be so much stronger with an extra good member.

Regarding the stipulation that if the man married again she gets the right to be his attorny to divorce herself

Read the answer of ali khamanaei he says the condition can only be munjaz (independent) not mualaq (dependent)

So I don't know why they say such stipulation is allowed because a general right to divorce is allowed but specific conditions that boycott people for not doing anything haraam is not right

Why didn't they simply refer them to the Khulna option?

Or just a general divorce option?

Many people used this fatwa to legitimize their negative attitude towards what god sanctioned but this fatwa is more concerned with the legality of divorce

[Ruq]

Believe what you want. Whether or not the story of the Prophet (pbuh) having a secret muta is correct in that particular instance, it is a stone cold fact that muta was part of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). There are just too many ahadith on this for it to be false.

As for your 'criteria' for accepting or rejecting ahadith based on what you consider to be moral behaviour, I already had enough experience of that in the Aisha thread and other muta threads, so I know there is no point saying anything more about this.

I think you have it the wrong way round. It seems to me that people have been trying to restrict muta rules, not relaxing them. As for the breakdown of permanent marriage, it seems to me that this is rather up to the attitude of the permanent wives.

May Allah bless you. You are an example to all your lost sisters on here.

Since when hasnt is been acceptible to reject a hadith because it insulted the Prophet(saw)?

its funny, i constantly hear of 'ijtihad' and using logic to discern whether something makes sense in light of Quran, then you get individuals who say if its in a hadith it must be true, even if it goes against what we assert about the character of the Prophet(saw) Either you believe the Prophet(saw) to have had the highest possible standards of behaviour or you dont. Lying for base reasons, i imagine even you could bring yourself to admit, would not be a property of someone with the highest standards of behaviour. But if you are happy to demean The Prophet(saw) and read undignified, salacious ahadith im sure you have hours of fun flicking through Bukhari and Muslim. Have you ever considered becoming sunni btw?

'As for the breakdown of permanent marriage, it seems to me that this is rather up to the attitude of the permanent wives.' - because?...i will have to guess your reason for this...a man is so weak that he cant be held responsible for his actions? its true, it takes a stronger person to take responsibility, you have a very low opinion of men if this is the case. Who are your role models? (im assuming not ahlulbayt(as)).

Or perhaps we are talking of particularly dense individuals who are unable to forsee the ramifications of their actions. Yes, i can understand such a man would need his wife or wives to take charge in that situation, for the safety of the whole boat, such a person cannot be trusted with the security of a family. Good point.

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

Read the answer of ali khamanaei he says the condition can only be munjaz (independent) not mualaq (dependent)

So I don't know why they say such stipulation is allowed because a general right to divorce is allowed but specific conditions that boycott people for not doing anything haraam is not right

Islamically it's her right, that's why the stipulation is allowed. She can just the same say "if he doesn't buy me a house within 2 years, i can divorce him", and that is also permitted. It doesn't mean that by not buying the house, the guy is comitting haram, it's a preference that she makes. She herself may believe that he isn't doing anything wrong Islamically by having another relationship. It's just her preference.

If he can't deliver what's in the contract, then he should accept the divorce and find other women that don't have such preferences.

[Haydar Husayn]

Since when hasnt is been acceptible to reject a hadith because it insulted the Prophet(saw)?

Not everyone perceives having a muta without telling his wives as being an insult.

Either you believe the Prophet(saw) to have had the highest possible standards of behaviour or you dont.

I do, but the difference is I think the Prophet (pbuh) did it so it must be ok, not "I was brought up to believe it was wrong, therefore he can't have done it". Many of you act like there is some independent source of morality than Islam that you have access to, and that you can use that to reject aspects of Islam that you don't like. What you forget is your morality is informed by your culture and upbringing, and may very well be in contradiction to what Allah (swt) considers moral.

Lying for base reasons, i imagine even you could bring yourself to admit, would not be a property of someone with the highest standards of behaviour.

Who accused the Prophet (pbuh) of lying? Not telling your wives you had a muta and lying about it are two completely different things.

Leaving aside whether or not the Prophet (pbuh) kept mutas secret, do you accept that he did muta at any point during his life while having permanent marriages?

But if you are happy to demean The Prophet(saw) and read undignified, salacious ahadith im sure you have hours of fun flicking through Bukhari and Muslim. Have you ever considered becoming sunni btw?

Clearly I didn't make the decision between Sunnism and Shi'ism based on the same criteria you did if you think this has any relevance whatsoever.

'As for the breakdown of permanent marriage, it seems to me that this is rather up to the attitude of the permanent wives.' - because?

Because they are the ones that create all the problems with a man takes another wife, either permanent or temporary. If they just accepted it, then there wouldn't be so many problems, would there?

[Ruq]

Not everyone perceives having a muta without telling his wives as being an insult.

I do, but the difference is I think the Prophet (pbuh) did it so it must be ok, not "I was brought up to believe it was wrong, therefore he can't have done it". Many of you act like there is some independent source of morality than Islam that you have access to, and that you can use that to reject aspects of Islam that you don't like. What you forget is your morality is informed by your culture and upbringing, and may very well be in contradiction to what Allah (swt) considers moral.

Who accused the Prophet (pbuh) of lying? Not telling your wives you had a muta and lying about it are two completely different things.

Leaving aside whether or not the Prophet (pbuh) kept mutas secret, do you accept that he did muta at any point during his life while having permanent marriages?

Clearly I didn't make the decision between Sunnism and Shi'ism based on the same criteria you did if you think this has any relevance whatsoever.

Because they are the ones that create all the problems with a man takes another wife, either permanent or temporary. If they just accepted it, then there wouldn't be so many problems, would there?

Maybe if you are some zombie drone who hasnt the intellect to ascertain through observation and rationalisation whether something is LIKELY to be true when taking all factors needed into consideration then you can nod your head to what ever is put in front of you without using your God given rational brain and have a very tragic life.

We can observe through history and experience and tests whether an action is likely to cause negative and destructive repercussions or positive ones and predict the possible and probable outcomes. Maybe it isnt your observation, but my observation is that putting selfish base desires that lead to an erosion of trust and security in a family is a negative thing. I also observe that deception and lying is not a positive, indeed both deception and lying are generally condemned as a bad thing. You can of course deceive and lie to protect someone and to have a good intention, if lying and deception is not done for base and selfish reasons (e.g not just to save your own pitiful skin) then its generally not considered as objectionable. Maybe you have observed the opposite, it would surprise me, but it could be the case.

So, how ever much you'd like to kid yourself, we all live a morality that is born out of experience in the real world, by what we experience ourselves and observe in the experiences of others. Thats why when Quran and hadith dont tackle the subject of using children as sexual toys i dont need them to tell me its wrong, i know through living in the world that is it wrong and a perversion. The Quran also doesnt tell me about certain excesses like over exercising, i know it can be very damaging for your body because i can observe that, there are no Quran or hadith to tell me this though, i have to use my logic.

I dont have a problem with muta, the point of disagreement we have is a) that The Prophet(saw) and a secret muta, which is preposterous and B) that it is ever acceptable to have a secret muta

Deception is of the same nature as lying. When you are using deceit to keep something from someone that you know they have the right to know about because it potentially will and can affect their lives then you are living a lie and keeping relevant facts away from that person that stops them making an informed decision, you ahve taken their power and rights away. People have the right to know whether their sexual health is at risk and their financial security is at risk ( supporting children is an expensive business). There is of course the aspect that you have to be able to treat wives fairly, if a wife doesnt know of the existence of another one she cannot ascertain whether this is the case and whether her rights are being upheld, so for this reason she has a right to know. And this isnt even taking into consideration other factors like possible emotional distress in the circumstance where agreements had been broken regarding whether a 2nd wife would be acceptable and the conditions of that.

Actually the differences between the way Sunnism presents Islam and the way Shi'ism presents Islam and the Prophet(saw) and personalities of the Ahlulbayt(as) as examples for us is integral to me sitting here as a revert. If i had only been exposed to a sunni version of Islam i would not be.

[Haydar Husayn]

Maybe if you are some zombie drone who hasnt the intellect to ascertain through observation and rationalisation whether something is LIKELY to be true when taking all factors needed into consideration then you can nod your head to what ever is put in front of you without using your God given rational brain and have a very tragic life.

We can observe through history and experience and tests whether an action is likely to cause negative and destructive repercussions or positive ones and predict the possible and probable outcomes. Maybe it isnt your observation, but my observation is that putting selfish base desires that lead to an erosion of trust and security in a family is a negative thing. I also observe that deception and lying is not a positive, indeed both deception and lying are generally condemned as a bad thing. You can of course deceive and lie to protect someone and to have a good intention, if lying and deception is not done for base and selfish reasons (e.g not just to save your own pitiful skin) then its generally not considered as objectionable. Maybe you have observed the opposite, it would surprise me, but it could be the case.

So, how ever much you'd like to kid yourself, we all live a morality that is born out of experience in the real world, by what we experience ourselves and observe in the experiences of others. Thats why when Quran and hadith dont tackle the subject of using children as sexual toys i dont need them to tell me its wrong, i know through living in the world that is it wrong and a perversion. The Quran also doesnt tell me about certain excesses like over exercising, i know it can be very damaging for your body because i can observe that, there are no Quran or hadith to tell me this though, i have to use my logic.

I dont have a problem with muta, the point of disagreement we have is a) that The Prophet(saw) and a secret muta, which is preposterous and B) that it is ever acceptable to have a secret muta

Deception is of the same nature as lying. When you are using deceit to keep something from someone that you know they have the right to know about because it potentially will and can affect their lives then you are living a lie and keeping relevant facts away from that person that stops them making an informed decision, you ahve taken their power and rights away. People have the right to know whether their sexual health is at risk and their financial security is at risk ( supporting children is an expensive business). There is of course the aspect that you have to be able to treat wives fairly, if a wife doesnt know of the existence of another one she cannot ascertain whether this is the case and whether her rights are being upheld, so for this reason she has a right to know. And this isnt even taking into consideration other factors like possible emotional distress in the circumstance where agreements had been broken regarding whether a 2nd wife would be acceptable and the conditions of that.

You whole argument is based on the pre-supposition that having a secret muta is deception, when it is no such thing unless their was an agreement that the husband could not have any mutas (or at least that they couldn't be secret). In the absence of any agreement forbidding it, he has a right to do muta, and he has no obligation to tell his wife or anyone else for that matter.

As for where we get our morality from, I don't really feel like going into a lengthy discussion on this topic, but all I will say is that in my opinion you need to think it through more clearly, and be absolutely consistent in your arguments and conclusions. Because once you start taking your moral framework from your own experience, then you are forced to conclude that the Prophet (pbuh) did things that are by today's standards immoral. I know you have a way of getting around this, which is to simply conclude that those stories of the Prophet (pbuh) must therefore be fabricated, as well as any other hadiths from the Imams supporting that behaviour, but that is hardly a very scholarly approach to Islamic history of jurisprudence, and is completely illogical. The morality you seek to use to judge what the Prophet (pbuh) may or may not have done is not an objective one, and may vary from person to person. There will be conformity among many people on certain issues like slavery and child marriage, but this is not because these are objectively wrong, but because everyone has been taught since childhood that they are wrong. What we need is a God-given, objective morality, and this is where religion comes in.

Actually the differences between the way Sunnism presents Islam and the way Shi'ism presents Islam and the Prophet(saw) and personalities of the Ahlulbayt(as) as examples for us is integral to me sitting here as a revert. If i had only been exposed to a sunni version of Islam i would not be.

The problem is you don't use them as examples. You first edit their lives according to your own desires, and then take what is left as an example.

[Ruq]

Congratulations on dodging the points i made.

secondly, i havent edited their(as) lives, i havent come across anything objectionable that isnt disputed to a degree that doesnt make it highly debateable and there fore not something i have to accept. I understand that you pride yourself on being an apologist for fallible extremist opinion which are happy to propogate interpretations of Quran and hadith that we can objectively witness as being grossly damaging, retarding and destructive, that is your choice and youre welcome to it.

[Haydar Husayn]

Congratulations on dodging the points i made.

What did I dodge?

secondly, i havent edited their(as) lives, i havent come across anything objectionable that isnt disputed to a degree that doesnt make it highly debateable and there fore not something i have to accept. I understand that you pride yourself on being an apologist for fallible extremist opinion which are happy to propogate interpretations of Quran and hadith that we can objectively witness as being grossly damaging, retarding and destructive, that is your choice and youre welcome to it.

I'm not propagating any particular interpretations of the Quran and hadiths, which are pretty clear on the issues I have been discussing. It is you who want to introduce weird interpretations. But please tell me how we can 'objectively witness' that my supposed interpretations are 'grossly damaging, retarding and destructive'. I hope you realise that subjects such as sociology are far from exact sciences, and are not objective.

[Ruq]

What did I dodge?

I'm not propagating any particular interpretations of the Quran and hadiths, which are pretty clear on the issues I have been discussing. It is you who want to introduce weird interpretations. But please tell me how we can 'objectively witness' that my supposed interpretations are 'grossly damaging, retarding and destructive'. I hope you realise that subjects such as sociology are far from exact sciences, and are not objective.

All.

I already answered your second question with regards to secret Muta.

[Waiting for HIM]

It's amazing how popular the marriage/sex/co-wife/muta posts were during the whole of Ramadan which was supposedly a month of abstinence from much that is halal.

Had it not been Omer's fooling around in total disregard to the commands of Allah, Muslims would be eating only once during Ramadan iftar time and having no action at night.

So my dear brothers and sisters please quit sexting and texting, chill, enjoy your last fast of the blessed month, have a wonderful and relaxed Eid, and let's resume hitting the keyboards in a few days.

wasalam..

Edited August 30, 2011 by Waiting for HIM

[alimohamad40]

Salaam eid Mubarak

Ruqayah:

It's not the right of the wife to know if her husband took another wife because it's not her business specially if she wants to know in order to reject or harm the others or destroy the new flourishing relationship.

It's only her right not to be lied to and there is a big difference between not announcing and actually lying

Announcing marriage is generally mustahab in Islam

Refraining from mustahab is not prohibited.

The problem is you need to establish with your self what is your constitution and reference in life. You can not say "my own morality" because the moral codes which are derived from the "selves" are subjective to each self. Humanity needs an absolute and objective reference for morality. Remember when you sit in a court you can not say "my own morality" but you have to refer to the constitution which is a universal code of morality

Examples of subjective motalities of different people colliding is the example of gays.

Some say it's good and they have the right and some say it's Evil and they should be punished if they come public with it.

Also note that there is a difference between dismissing ahadeeth because you have done a genuine ijtihad and find that hadeeth in contradiction with usool aldeen or in contradiction with well established juristic formulas or has a fault In transmission then this is genuine

But to dismiss randomly based on the feelings that you get then it's very likely that those unguided feelings are your desires or self imposed comfort zones that ur not willing to exit.

Ur mind is the sound of god and your self desire is the sound of the devil so you

Need to make distinction between the two

[Waiting for HIM]

Salaam eid Mubarak

Ruqayah:

It's not the right of the wife to know if her husband took another wife because it's not her business specially if she wants to know in order to reject or harm the others or destroy the new flourishing relationship.

It's only her right not to be lied to and there is a big difference between not announcing and actually lying

Announcing marriage is generally mustahab in Islam

Refraining from mustahab is not prohibited.

The problem is you need to establish with your self what is your constitution and reference in life. You can not say "my own morality" because the moral codes which are derived from the "selves" are subjective to each self. Humanity needs an absolute and objective reference for morality. Remember when you sit in a court you can not say "my own morality" but you have to refer to the constitution which is a universal code of morality

Examples of subjective motalities of different people colliding is the example of gays.

Some say it's good and they have the right and some say it's Evil and they should be punished if they come public with it.

Also note that there is a difference between dismissing ahadeeth because you have done a genuine ijtihad and find that hadeeth in contradiction with usool aldeen or in contradiction with well established juristic formulas or has a fault In transmission then this is genuine

But to dismiss randomly based on the feelings that you get then it's very likely that those unguided feelings are your desires or self imposed comfort zones that ur not willing to exit.

Ur mind is the sound of god and your self desire is the sound of the devil so you

Need to make distinction between the two

Bro alimohamad40, you always have the most knowledgeable things to say. I only wish I could read your replies on some of the topics of Islamic akhlaq and Irfann sometime. Not being sarcastic or anything. But rarely people come up with different angles about things,and you seem to be one of those people. Eid Mubarak..

[ImAli]

Salaam eid Mubarak

Ruqayah:

It's not the right of the wife to know if her husband took another wife because it's not her business specially if she wants to know in order to reject or harm the others or destroy the new flourishing relationship.

It's only her right not to be lied to and there is a big difference between not announcing and actually lying

Announcing marriage is generally mustahab in Islam

Refraining from mustahab is not prohibited.

The problem is you need to establish with your self what is your constitution and reference in life. You can not say "my own morality" because the moral codes which are derived from the "selves" are subjective to each self. Humanity needs an absolute and objective reference for morality. Remember when you sit in a court you can not say "my own morality" but you have to refer to the constitution which is a universal code of morality

Examples of subjective motalities of different people colliding is the example of gays.

Some say it's good and they have the right and some say it's Evil and they should be punished if they come public with it.

Also note that there is a difference between dismissing ahadeeth because you have done a genuine ijtihad and find that hadeeth in contradiction with usool aldeen or in contradiction with well established juristic formulas or has a fault In transmission then this is genuine

But to dismiss randomly based on the feelings that you get then it's very likely that those unguided feelings are your desires or self imposed comfort zones that ur not willing to exit.

Ur mind is the sound of god and your self desire is the sound of the devil so you

Need to make distinction between the two

I think the main concern of many women is that most women...not all women who participate in mutah are divorced or widowed, this means they are not a virgin. Perhaps the woman divorced because her husband was an adulterer and she is harboring some STD that doesn't show any symptoms and she doesn't even know she is sick. Even people who look healthy could possibly be infected with HIV and not know it. This is especially dangerous for lets say women like me who are currently nursing a child because some of these silent killers can even be passed to the child.

[Haydar Husayn]

I think the main concern of many women is that most women...not all women who participate in mutah are divorced or widowed, this means they are not a virgin. Perhaps the woman divorced because her husband was an adulterer and she is harboring some STD that doesn't show any symptoms and she doesn't even know she is sick. Even people who look healthy could possibly be infected with HIV and not know it. This is especially dangerous for lets say women like me who are currently nursing a child because some of these silent killers can even be passed to the child.

I find it very hard to believe that this is the main reason women don't want their husbands doing muta. In fact, other than you, I don't think I've ever heard anyone bring it up. I can believe that you have your own complex about STDs, but for the majority of women this would just be convenient excuse to be able to oppose their husbands doing muta while being able to claim it is not because of jealousy.

[MysticKnight]

It would be a convenient excuse, but is also something that shows a flaw in the law. It's endangering the life of the woman and still she doesn't need to know about it, she doesn't have that right, and isn't allowed to prohibit the husband.

Edited August 30, 2011 by MysticKnight

[alimohamad40]

Salaam

It would be a convenient excuse, but is also something that shows a flaw in the law. It's endangering the life of the woman and still she doesn't need to know about it, she doesn't have that right, and isn't allowed to prohibit the husband.

No no she has every right to know if she is so paranoid about this issue.

The flaw is not with the actual law but it's with what you mistakenly thought was the law.

Obviously they can do a blood test and if the new wife is healthy or is a virgin then this issue is non existent and if the new wife is a risk then she has the right to refuse the marriage because that directly impacts her health and is related to her

It's not her right to object when her sole reason is jealousy and selfishness.

Waiting for him

Thank you but knowledge alone doesn't suffice and could have an opposite effect but inshalah god grants us the ability to practice According to the knowledge

I tried to talk in other threads but apparently shiachat only has two active areas

The war between Sunnis and Shia

The war between the feminists and chauvinists lol

Many times I posted on other sections but I don't get responses even after a month

Edited August 31, 2011 by alimohamad40

[ImAli]

I find it very hard to believe that this is the main reason women don't want their husbands doing muta. In fact, other than you, I don't think I've ever heard anyone bring it up. I can believe that you have your own complex about STDs, but for the majority of women this would just be convenient excuse to be able to oppose their husbands doing muta while being able to claim it is not because of jealousy.

A convenient excuse? As usually you are being thoughtless and this time it involves the health of a nursing child.

[MysticKnight]

No no she has every right to know if she is so paranoid about this issue.

What if she didn't think about the issue? She doesn't have the right to know.?What if she isn't suspecting it at all? By the way, what is your proof that she has the right to know if she is paranoid? I hope not your own ethics but proof from Quran and hadiths, which is your only source of morality.

Obviously they can do a blood test and if the new wife is healthy or is a virgin then this issue is non existent and if the new wife is a risk then she has the right to refuse the marriage because that directly impacts her health

Is it required they do a blood test and that the husband informs the wife? Proof from Quran and hadiths, don't bring your own ethics.

The fact is the law, Quran and Sunnah, says nothing about informing the wife of muta, so where do you get he must inform her? Now you are making blood tests obligatory, where did you get that from, what's the proof from Quran and Sunnah?

Edited August 31, 2011 by MysticKnight

[heba1010]

I hope everything works out for you and that she is an easy woman to deal with.

Insha Allah I will gain a sister and a friend for life.

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

Insha Allah I will gain a sister and a friend for life.

is there anyway we can clone your dna and add it to all shia women in world? lol

[alimohamad40]

Salaam

Mystic the evidence from Quran and sunnah is present.

Fish formulas that say

God can not be obeyed via disobeying him

áÇ íØÇÚ Çááå ãä ÍíË íÚÕí

And another rule that avoiding harm takes precedence

áÇ ÖÑÑ æ áÇ ÖÑÇÑ

[14infallibles]

Salaam

Mystic the evidence from Quran and sunnah is present.

Fish formulas that say

God can not be obeyed via disobeying him

لا يطاع الله من حيث يعصي

And another rule that avoiding harm takes precedence

لا ضرر و لا ضرار

(salam)

Brother can you please elaborate

Thank you very much wassalam alaykom