How To - Lower Your Gaze And Be Consistent Abt It

[Waiting for HIM]

For men, how to be consistent about lowering your gaze. Women are everywhere, on tv, in malls, at work, in school, everywhere. How do you strive to keep your looks pure? And even if you look, how to make sure your look is not " the look"? Am really interested in hearing from South Asian brothers since women there are almost never clad in black abaya or chador all the time, the outfits are colorful, and the women are more frank and outgoing. Please share your experiences in your struggle to follow this particular command of Allah.

Thanks ...

[Guest adilrizvi]

When i see a woman without hijab, All i see is satan.

[islamicdaddy]

(bismillah)

(salam)

3 things you can do:

1) Look to the ground (so that the angels of the ground will bless you)

2) Look at the sky (so that the angels of the sky will bless you)

3) Close your eyes (so that both the angels of the ground and the sky will bless you)

Imam Sadiq (as) said that 2 times looking at one woman breaks the fast. Also we are told that the eyes are the gates to our heart.

Be careful with what Allah gave you!

Here is a compilation of ayah's in holy Qur'an which mention the eyes. Whenever in the past shaitan bothered me with my eyes I used to read it:

15:88 Strain not thine eyes. (Wistfully) at what We have bestowed on certain classes of them, nor grieve over them: but lower thy wing (in gentleness) to the believers.

15:15 They would only say: "Our eyes have been intoxicated: Nay, we have been bewitched by sorcery."

18:28 And keep thy soul content with those who call on their Lord morning and evening, seeking His Face; and let not thine eyes pass beyond them, seeking the pomp and glitter of this Life; no obey any whose heart We have permitted to neglect the remembrance of Us, one who follows his own desires, whose case has gone beyond all bounds.

20:131 Nor strain thine eyes in longing for the things We have given for enjoyment to parties of them, the splendour of the life of this world, through which We test them: but the provision of thy Lord is better and more enduring.

24:37 By men whom neither traffic nor merchandise can divert from the Remembrance of Allah, nor from regular Prayer, nor from the practice of regular Charity: Their (only) fear is for the Day when hearts and eyes will be transformed (in a world wholly new),-

25:74 And those who pray, "Our Lord! Grant unto us wives and offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes, and give us (the grace) to lead the righteous."

36:66 If it had been our Will, We could surely have blotted out their eyes; then should they have run about groping for the Path, but how could they have seen?

37:48 And besides them will be chaste women, restraining their glances, with big eyes (of wonder and beauty).

40:19 ((Allah)) knows of (the tricks) that deceive with the eyes, and all that the hearts (of men) conceal.

43:71 To them will be passed round, dishes and goblets of gold: there will be there all that the souls could desire, all that their eyes could delight in: and ye shall abide therein (for aye).

44:54 So; and We shall join them to Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes.

52:20 They will recline (with ease) on Thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them to Companions, with beautiful big and lustrous eyes.

54:7 They will come forth,- their eyes humbled - from (their) graves, (torpid) like locusts scattered abroad,

56:22 And (there will be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes,-

68:43 Their eyes will be cast down,- ignominy will cover them; seeing that they had been summoned aforetime to bow in adoration, while they were whole, (and had refused).

79:9 Cast down will be (their owners') eyes.

90:8 Have We not made for him a pair of eyes?-

24:30 Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

24:31 And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

79:40 And for such as had entertained the fear of standing before their Lord's (tribunal) and had restrained (their) soul from lower desires,

ma'a salama,

Ihsaan

[AliSaleh]

just cuz u r looking at a woman doesnt mean u r lusting for them. they r everywhere so its hard not ot see them but u just need to control yourself and desires.

[sonic]

^

You may be right, but a lot of sins usually start with "just looking".

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

You're paying too much attention to this looking at a girl thing. Just go on with your daily business at the mall or school or what ever. If a girl happens to pop up in front of you, just look away, change the channel or what ever, it's pretty simple. The problem starts when you start thinking "omg omg omg there's a naked girl right there" mentality. There isn't a magic action you can do that'll stop it from happening, it's an overall shift in thinking and attitude. A good way to start, is just think that they're all men or something. This helps the de-sensitization process.

When i see a woman without hijab, All i see is satan.

lol i hope you mean that you see satan's grip on you by playing on your weakness to lust, as opposed to the woman being 'satan' because she's not covering :huh: coz calling a woman 'satan' because she doesn't cover is anti-islamic.

[ImAli]

I know this is the brothers forum....BUT YOUR NOT THAT GUY WHOSE BEEN FOLLOWING women around the neighborhood even if they are wearing hijab and abaya while they are trying to have a peaceful walk are you? :mad:

[Ali_Hussain]

What do you make of this?

http://realtashayyu....+of+Tashayyu%29

فروع الكافي 5/542 كتاب النكاح باب الزاني حديث 6

Furu' al Kafi (by Shaikh Kulaini), Volume 5, Page 542, Chapter of nikah, Section about the fornicator, Hadith no. 6

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن علي بن سويد قال: قلت لابي الحسن (ع): إني مبتلي بالنظر إلى المرأة الجميلة فيعجبني النظر إليها، فقال لي: يا علي لا بأس إذا عرف الله من نيتك الصدق وإياك والزنا فإنه يمحق البركة و يهلك الدين

Muhammad b. Yahya, from Ahmad b. Muhammad, Ali b. al Hakam, from Ali b. Suwaid who said: "I said to Abi al-Hasan (as): Indeed I am afflicted with looking at the beautiful woman, thus I like looking at her." So he (as) said to me: "O Ali, No Problem when Allah knew of your true intention, but beware of Zina, for it wipes out the blessings and kills the faith."

مرآة العقول في شرح أخبار آل الرسول، ج‏20، ص: 387

Miratul Uquool (By Allama Majlisi), Volume 20, Page 387

صحيح

Sahih (correct/authentic)

Edited August 26, 2011 by ShahHussain

[Rohani]

What do you make of this?

http://realtashayyu....+of+Tashayyu%29

فروع الكافي 5/542 كتاب النكاح باب الزاني حديث 6

Furu' al Kafi (by Shaikh Kulaini), Volume 5, Page 542, Chapter of nikah, Section about the fornicator, Hadith no. 6

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن علي بن سويد قال: قلت لابي الحسن (ع): إني مبتلي بالنظر إلى المرأة الجميلة فيعجبني النظر إليها، فقال لي: يا علي لا بأس إذا عرف الله من نيتك الصدق وإياك والزنا فإنه يمحق البركة و يهلك الدين

Muhammad b. Yahya, from Ahmad b. Muhammad, Ali b. al Hakam, from Ali b. Suwaid who said: "I said to Abi al-Hasan (as): Indeed I am afflicted with looking at the beautiful woman, thus I like looking at her." So he (as) said to me: "O Ali, No Problem when Allah knew of your true intention, but beware of Zina, for it wipes out the blessings and kills the faith."

مرآة العقول في شرح أخبار آل الرسول، ج‏20، ص: 387

Miratul Uquool (By Allama Majlisi), Volume 20, Page 387

صحيح

Sahih (correct/authentic)

Salam Alaykom

Interesting, so what is the gaze that is wrong when it crossings into thinking sexually about the person not actually just seing their beauty. ?

[Waiting for HIM]

Thanks guys for replying. Don't you think it is a constant struggle?

Although I like the advice of desensetizing your eyes to not get attracted to the opposite sex.

Also sisters you are welcome to add your input. I've known muslim girls who are also inflicted with "looking" disease. I've girls who jokingly told me that as soon as some of our young and famous english speakers come on mimbar, they feel things and have to force their minds to listen to the messenger and not look at him. My reply, women did cut their hands while looking at Yusuf (as), so this "looking" disease must be prevalent among females as well.

I know this is the brothers forum....BUT YOUR NOT THAT GUY WHOSE BEEN FOLLOWING women around the neighborhood even if they are wearing hijab and abaya while they are trying to have a peaceful walk are you? :mad:

Oh so that were you in the black abaya ;)

Edited August 26, 2011 by Waiting for HIM

[Ali_Hussain]

Salam Alaykom

Interesting, so what is the gaze that is wrong when it crossings into thinking sexually about the person not actually just seing their beauty. ?

wa alaykum salaam

I can't comment, i would imagine going by the above hadith, the face is ok, but not the body? Or as you say, if you aren't thinking sexually about a girl, because you do sometimes see women who are beautiful and are nice to look at, and you don't immediately have some kind of animal urge, as some people make out.

Although, i must say, i always remember that hadith from nabi Isa (as) "Avoid looking at what is forbidden for it is the seed of lust and the plant of depravity"

Edited August 26, 2011 by ShahHussain

[Replicant]

You're paying too much attention to this looking at a girl thing. Just go on with your daily business at the mall or school or what ever. If a girl happens to pop up in front of you, just look away, change the channel or what ever, it's pretty simple. The problem starts when you start thinking "omg omg omg there's a naked girl right there" mentality. There isn't a magic action you can do that'll stop it from happening, it's an overall shift in thinking and attitude. A good way to start, is just think that they're all men or something. This helps the de-sensitization process.

lol i hope you mean that you see satan's grip on you by playing on your weakness to lust, as opposed to the woman being 'satan' because she's not covering :huh: coz calling a woman 'satan' because she doesn't cover is anti-islamic.

Hahahahahahahahaha!

What do you make of this?

http://realtashayyu....+of+Tashayyu%29

فروع الكافي 5/542 كتاب النكاح باب الزاني حديث 6

Furu' al Kafi (by Shaikh Kulaini), Volume 5, Page 542, Chapter of nikah, Section about the fornicator, Hadith no. 6

محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن علي بن سويد قال: قلت لابي الحسن (ع): إني مبتلي بالنظر إلى المرأة الجميلة فيعجبني النظر إليها، فقال لي: يا علي لا بأس إذا عرف الله من نيتك الصدق وإياك والزنا فإنه يمحق البركة و يهلك الدين

Muhammad b. Yahya, from Ahmad b. Muhammad, Ali b. al Hakam, from Ali b. Suwaid who said: "I said to Abi al-Hasan (as): Indeed I am afflicted with looking at the beautiful woman, thus I like looking at her." So he (as) said to me: "O Ali, No Problem when Allah knew of your true intention, but beware of Zina, for it wipes out the blessings and kills the faith."

مرآة العقول في شرح أخبار آل الرسول، ج‏20، ص: 387

Miratul Uquool (By Allama Majlisi), Volume 20, Page 387

صحيح

Sahih (correct/authentic)

Mutahhari also quotes this hadith in one of his books.

To the OP - In an ideal world, looking at the opposite gender is always avoided however it's near on impossible. It's only impermissible if it leads to haraam thoughts and actions. Sayed Sistani also says:

To look at the body of a woman who would not care for Hijab, even if she were advised, is not haraam, provided that it does not lead to sinful act or sexual pleasure, and excitement, nor is it with that intention; and in this rule, there is no distinction between a Muslim and a non-Muslim woman; and also between those parts, like their faces, their hands which they normally do not cover, and other parts of their bodies.

http://www.najaf.org/english/book/1/inside/237.htm

This more or less goes with the hadith quoted above. It's an assumption that men automatically have some animal urge when they see a nice woman (as stated above).

[WhiteSkies]

Also sisters you are welcome to add your input. I've known muslim girls who are also inflicted with "looking" disease. I've girls who jokingly told me that as soon as some of our young and famous english speakers come on mimbar, they feel things and have to force their minds to listen to the messenger and not look at him. My reply, women did cut their hands while looking at Yusuf (as), so this "looking" disease must be prevalent among females as well.

You get young and good looking men? Wherever I go we seem to get a really old man who is not that good looking. :dry: Would be a bit weird if I 'felt' anything :Hijabi:

But, I guess its all for the best, I have no need to 'force' myself to listen :lol:

In answer to your question, when I'm in a religious area (i.e: mosques, centres) I tend to just put my head down and walk out. In day to day life I'm pretty much the same unless its a guy I know (i.e: colleague, work) and we have something to discuss. Generally, the only time I may have been like 'waah, that guy is so handsome' etc would be in response to an actor/someone on TV when I'm kind of staring right at the guy's face, but that was when I was a bit younger I don't really watch TV all that much anymore.. but tbh, I'm not too sure by the word 'impure' - I may find the guy really attractive but I er.. feel no 'animal urge' as mentioned in previous posts. Maybe that's just a male thing? :P

So to sum up, thankfully I don't suffer from the same problems you do and Inshallah, I won't either :blush:

[_jen_]

When i see a woman without hijab, All i see is satan.

Thats a disgusting post.

Thats like me saying every time I see a bearded man or a hijabi woman, all i see is a terrorist. Only what you say is a million times worse, because you say you see shaitan.

Though I cant blame you, as your post seems typical of muslims, especially Asian ones, where you speak disgustingly about women just because they dont wear hijab, when in reality you actually find hijabi "sisters" hot. So for all those "satans" out there as you put it, at least they are not attractive in the eyes of these kind of men.

For men, how to be consistent about lowering your gaze. Women are everywhere, on tv, in malls, at work, in school, everywhere. How do you strive to keep your looks pure? And even if you look, how to make sure your look is not " the look"? Am really interested in hearing from South Asian brothers since women there are almost never clad in black abaya or chador all the time, the outfits are colorful, and the women are more frank and outgoing. Please share your experiences in your struggle to follow this particular command of Allah.

Thanks ...

I think maybe you need to give yourself a little bit of trust. You wont find every woman you look at attractive. And if you do after the fisrt look, just look away. I think you know if you your look is the look, by what you feel.

[Guest adilrizvi]

Thats a disgusting post.

Thats like me saying every time I see a bearded man or a hijabi woman, all i see is a terrorist. Only what you say is a million times worse, because you say you see shaitan.

Though I cant blame you, as your post seems typical of muslims, especially Asian ones, where you speak disgustingly about women just because they dont wear hijab, when in reality you actually find hijabi "sisters" hot. So for all those "satans" out there as you put it, at least they are not attractive in the eyes of these kind of men.

I think maybe you need to give yourself a little bit of trust. You wont find every woman you look at attractive. And if you do after the fisrt look, just look away. I think you know if you your look is the look, by what you feel.

Thats a disgusting post.

Thats like me saying every time I see a bearded man or a hijabi woman, all i see is a terrorist. Only what you say is a million times worse, because you say you see shaitan.

Though I cant blame you, as your post seems typical of muslims, especially Asian ones, where you speak disgustingly about women just because they dont wear hijab, when in reality you actually find hijabi "sisters" hot. So for all those "satans" out there as you put it, at least they are not attractive in the eyes of these kind of men.

I think maybe you need to give yourself a little bit of trust. You wont find every woman you look at attractive. And if you do after the fisrt look, just look away. I think you know if you your look is the look, by what you feel.

(bismillah)

(salam)

First of all, to clarify. As ya aba said about my post.. I do not mean that they are "shaitan". What I meant was.. When I stare at a beautiful girl walking down the street with no hijab at all.. I remember shaitan, because that's when a man is most vulnerable to shaitan's trap. In the same manner, I remember Shaitan when I get angry about something.. And I immediately calm down before I do/say something that hurts anyone. That is my way of not getting tempted by shaitan. If someone is not doing hijab they are not shaitan, of course.. why would I mean that?

Secondly, I never.. never said anything about you directly. But you said a lot of things about me. Again I'd only like to say that If I'm wrong may Allah forgive me but if you are wrong may Allah forgive you.

I mean seriously jen.. If you didn't agree with my point you could have just asked me to clarify what I meant. I find it interesting that on this site, whenever someone disagrees with another the first thing they say about them is them being asian, or about their family's background.. and things like that. Setting examples, aren't we.

Edited August 27, 2011 by adilrizvi

[El Cid]

Someone told me of this exit strategy a long time ago, Look at every woman and girl out there like they are your Mothers and sisters. I know Your not really related to them, but in a way you are. We are all Sons and Daughters of Hazrat Adam(a.s). Now do you dare to look at them in the wrong way? :shifty:

But I don't really use this concept tbh lol :dry:

[Aly ReZa]

(bismillah)

(salam)

3 things you can do:

1) Look to the ground (so that the angels of the ground will bless you)

2) Look at the sky (so that the angels of the sky will bless you)

3) Close your eyes (so that both the angels of the ground and the sky will bless you)

Imam Sadiq (as) said that 2 times looking at one woman breaks the fast.

Heard 1st time

Can you provide me the reference for the above hadees which u posted

[_jen_]

(bismillah)

(salam)

First of all, to clarify. As ya aba said about my post.. I do not mean that they are "shaitan". What I meant was.. When I stare at a beautiful girl walking down the street with no hijab at all.. I remember shaitan, because that's when a man is most vulnerable to shaitan's trap. In the same manner, I remember Shaitan when I get angry about something.. And I immediately calm down before I do/say something that hurts anyone. That is my way of not getting tempted by shaitan. If someone is not doing hijab they are not shaitan, of course.. why would I mean that?

Secondly, I never.. never said anything about you directly. But you said a lot of things about me. Again I'd only like to say that If I'm wrong may Allah forgive me but if you are wrong may Allah forgive you.

I mean seriously jen.. If you didn't agree with my point you could have just asked me to clarify what I meant. I find it interesting that on this site, whenever someone disagrees with another the first thing they say about them is them being asian, or about their family's background.. and things like that. Setting examples, aren't we.

You said you "see satan" when you look at a non-hijabi, not that you think of/remember satan. So I'll be honest, since its Ramadhan and all....I think you may be desperately trying to get out of what you initially said, but its still clear to me what you meant. At least you seem to recognise now, even if you wont admit it, that to call someone shaytan is wrong.

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

You said you "see satan" when you look at a non-hijabi, not that you think of/remember satan. So I'll be honest, since its Ramadhan and all....I think you may be desperately trying to get out of what you initially said, but its still clear to me what you meant. At least you seem to recognise now, even if you wont admit it, that to call someone shaytan is wrong.

Give the guy the benefit of the doubt, it is shahr ramadhan after all, 70 excuses, etc ^_^ let this one slip.

Maybe he meant he sees Hell -> "To them, Hell is also as if they see it and are suffering punishment in it." http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/192.htm

Though some of the guys i know would say they're actually seeing jannah -> "Thus to them Paradise is as though they see it and are enjoying its favours."

[ImAli]

His poor choice of words is probably a language barrier since most people on here don't speak English as a first language.

[Guest adilrizvi]

His poor choice of words is probably a language barrier since most people on here don't speak English as a first language.

no. I said what I wanted to say. Its just that I didn't elaborate my point. I didn't know so many people would misconstrue my perspective.

Anyway, Sorry to everyone who felt offended by my post.

[_jen_]

no. I said what I wanted to say. Its just that I didn't elaborate my point. I didn't know so many people would misconstrue my perspective.

Anyway, Sorry to everyone who felt offended by my post.

Thats ok, just dont do it again

[Guest adilrizvi]

Thats ok, just dont do it again

Yeah, I'll be more elaborate in explaining my point from now on.

Edited August 28, 2011 by adilrizvi

[Waiting for HIM]

Thats ok, just dont do it again

You don't have to rub it in, he is clarifying it already.

While it is a virtue to accept one's mistake, it's also gracious to accpet one's apology with keeping everybody's dignity in place.

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

You don't have to rub it in, he is clarifying it already.

While it is a virtue to accept one's mistake, it's also gracious to accpet one's apology with keeping everybody's dignity in place.

LOL i was thinkin the same thing. If the guy allowed a chic to eat him alive on a forum, you can imagine what his wife is gonna do to him in real life, poor guy man :lol:

[_jen_]

Yeah, I'll be more elaborate in explaining my point from now on.

You do that, inshallah.

[Guest adilrizvi]

LOL i was thinkin the same thing. If the guy allowed a chic to eat him alive on a forum, you can imagine what his wife is gonna do to him in real life, poor guy man :lol:

yeah.. shareef guys are mostly slaves of their wives.. so i'll be one too ya aba :P

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

yeah.. shareef guys are mostly slaves of their wives.. so i'll be one too ya aba :P

Never give in man!

I'd encourage you to marry two. That way scorpions can turn on each other instead, and you can just sit back and enjoy the show.

[Guest adilrizvi]

Never give in man!

I'd encourage you to marry two. That way scorpions can turn on each other instead, and you can just sit back and enjoy the show.

:lol:

[14infallibles]

Never give in man!

I'd encourage you to marry two. That way scorpions can turn on each other instead, and you can just sit back and enjoy the show.

LOL bro you're awesome

[islamicdaddy]

Muhammad b. Yahya, from Ahmad b. Muhammad, Ali b. al Hakam, from Ali b. Suwaid who said: "I said to Abi al-Hasan (as): Indeed I am afflicted with looking at the beautiful woman, thus I like looking at her." So he (as) said to me: "O Ali, No Problem when Allah knew of your true intention, but beware of Zina, for it wipes out the blessings and kills the faith."

(bismillah)

(salam)

Any hadith which goes against Qur'an is a fake. Sorry for those enjoying to look at ladies na-mahram... But there is no excuse as per this verse:

24:30 Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

24:31 And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty...

May Allah help all of us to be amongst the pious!

ma'a salama,

Ihsaan

[Waiting for HIM]

yeah.. shareef guys are mostly slaves of their wives.. so i'll be one too ya aba :P

Bro adilrizvi, not the sharif guys, the wuss guys are mostly slaves of their wives. [with the Western feminism, unfortunately many men are becoming this "urban man" which is not what Islam wants us to be as a MAN]

Not to really make you feel bad, but the day you act like this in front of your wife, the same day you lose all respect, leverage, and leadership in your family. A MAN is the one who leads, a woman is the one who follows, with all respect, dignity, care, consideration, love, and everything in between fully intact for both from each other, but this is how Allah made us. This is not to say that a manly MAN shares most of this burden of showing love, care, and consideration for his wife.

Remember most of gravest sins such as zina, 'looking", gay-ism, lesbianism etc are prevalent in societies where men have taken up feminist tendencies. (also true for societies where there is an imbalance of masculinity as well). Whenever I see a so called practicing Muslim with a hijab-less or extra bubbly in front of na-mahram wife, I know who is more feminine in the family - lol.

May be this should be another topic but you had me going :)

Edited August 29, 2011 by Waiting for HIM

[Guest adilrizvi]

Bro adilrizvi, not the sharif guys, the wuss guys are mostly slaves of their wives. [with the Western feminism, unfortunately many men are becoming this "urban man" which is not what Islam wants us to be as a MAN]

Not to really make you feel bad, but the day you act like this in front of your wife, the same day you lose all respect, leverage, and leadership in your family. A MAN is the one who leads, a woman is the one who follows, with all respect, dignity, care, consideration, love, and everything in between fully intact for both from each other, but this is how Allah made us. This is not to say that a manly MAN shares most of this burden of showing love, care, and consideration for his wife.

Remember most of gravest sins such as zina, 'looking", gay-ism, lesbianism etc are prevalent in societies where men have taken up feminist tendencies. (also true for societies where there is an imbalance of masculinity as well). Whenever I see a so called practicing Muslim with a hijab-less or extra bubbly in front of na-mahram wife, I know who is more feminine in the family - lol.

May be this should be another topic but you had me going :)

lol first of all what I said about shareef guys being slaves of their wives was supposed to be a joke bro, and just because I did not argue back with the sister that is against manliness? if you feel that way.. I'm sorry but I disagree. I can hardly be bothered arguing with someone over the internet on some forum that I joined in the first place to learn, not to insult or argue with anyone. The best I could do is explain my point and try not to offend anyone.

[Waiting for HIM]

lol first of all what I said about shareef guys being slaves of their wives was supposed to be a joke bro, and just because I did not argue back with the sister that is against manliness? if you feel that way.. I'm sorry but I disagree. I can hardly be bothered arguing with someone over the internet on some forum that I joined in the first place to learn, not to insult or argue with anyone. The best I could do is explain my point and try not to offend anyone.

Oh I got your joke, but like I said this sharif and over pleasing to women thing had me going. Like I said this could become another topic and we all would get to hear some interesting comments from a bunch of frequent chatters on "social and family" forum <we all know them - lol>. I did not intend an iota of disrespect for you.

[Guest adilrizvi]

Oh I got your joke, but like I said this sharif and over pleasing to women thing had me going. Like I said this could become another topic and we all would get to hear some interesting comments from a bunch of frequent chatters on "social and family" forum <we all know them - lol>. I did not intend an iota of disrespect for you.

dw about it, you're like a brother to me. And yeah you should start that topic :D