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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is It True That Most Iranians Are Leaving Islam?

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Disliking the current regime in Iran is not the same as being non-Muslim. Though I get your point that almost all Shah suppoters are against Islam, It is often ignored that Reza Shah, Grandson of the Shah and the would -be crown prince of Iran, now living in the U.S is a devout Shiite Muslim!!!!!!!! I wonder how these anti Islamist would respond to that?

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(bismillah) (salam)

Everyone watch this video. You don't need to watch it all. Just start at 24:45 and make sure to see the chants. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiQPEYpCbTQ I think this answers the OP's question.

So I will: http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb10/IranElection_Feb10_rpt.pdf Let's not forget: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20291-iran-is-top-of-the-world-in-science-growth.html

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I've witnessed many 3rd generation of runaway iranians after islamic revolution are coming back to islam.

I Have also witnessed The same thing among many 3rd Generation Iranians living in The West many are now returning back to their Islamic Identity and heritage some never left it and many Iranians living in the West that are Returning to their Islamic Identity also see that Iran is strong and powerful under The Islamic Government in Iran

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Ive heard that Many people of Persian descent outside of Iran are leaving Islam due to the supposed oppression in the Islamic republic, and are turning to nationalistic Iranian views that is drawn from an increasingly pro-Aryan and Anti- Arab mindset, or is this just propaganda from a minority of Iranians. Some of them even claim that the majority of Iranians are not even Muslim anymore!

So? You always talk about Iran as if all Iranians are the Chosen people and they all should be the religious Muslims, and the very spiritual people.

Those people left Islam, and so what? In the days of the Prophet and Imams, so-called Muslims left Islam.

The Iranian nationalists also claim that the Islamic revolution was forced on them and is the fault of the Arabs, and they made the corrupt Shah Pahllavis as their hero. But isnt that ignoring the fact that during the time of the revolution it was the Iranian people that were fed up with the Shah and wholeheartedly supported the Ayatollah Khomeini. The nationalists like to blame everything that has gone wrong with Iran on Islam and the Arabs.

People tend to differ in their point of views, you want to think that ALL citizens of Iran will love the regime, and follow it happily ever after? Thats democracy

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On 10/12/2011 at 2:13 PM, Reshad said:

Disliking the current regime in Iran is not the same as being non-Muslim. Though I get your point that almost all Shah suppoters are against Islam, It is often ignored that Reza Shah, Grandson of the Shah and the would -be crown prince of Iran, now living in the U.S is a devout Shiite Muslim!!!!!!!! I wonder how these anti Islamist would respond to that?

LOL??? Reza Shah Junior is a devout Shiite?? Really? Please do tell more, this should be good.

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if this is true then there is no need to get dishearted but infact it is a matter of joy that major sign of qayamah is prevailing.

in last days people will starts leaving islaam.

but I am sorry for those who are selling akhira for cheap deals of this world.

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These are usual propaganda lies, people have differing levels of "conservativeness" but that doesn't mean people are allegedly not Muslim or something! Also Iran is a very religious nation, and the youth (18-21 years old) was the strongest voting bloc in favor of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad back in 2009).

This kuffar claim was discussed back in this thread, wherein some people included photos of the young Iranian people that are very religious and praying all the time in Iran! http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234968731-the-lowest-moque-attendance-of-any-islamic-country/

Edited by Basra
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It appears to be true. Although he calls for separation of religion and politics, however, he says he is a Shia Muslim and says the positive words about Shia Islam in Iran.

And people actually believe this?

Edited by repenter
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On 10/20/2011 at 11:15 AM, titumir said:

It appears to be true. Although he calls for separation of religion and politics, however, he says he is a Shia Muslim and says the positive words about Shia Islam in Iran.

So what?

And his father went on hajj, twice!

That means nothing.

Whether or not he is a Muslim... well that's not really for us to speculate. If he is being truthful (which I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was), and he is indeed a Muslim, so what? What difference does it make?

Imam Khomeini said something brilliant: he said that the Islamic Revolution was a war between Islam and Islam: on the one hand pure Islam of Prophet Mohammad, and on the other hand a superstitious, selective Islam amalgamated with impure foreign ideologies.

So whether or not he is a Muslim is quite irrelevant. Wasn't Harun Rashid a Muslim? Wasn't Saddam?

Why do we enter into these pointless discussions? If Reza Pahlavi is Muslim, should it make us look at him any differently? Should that be a credit to him?

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iranians r not leaving islam but shiism

What proof if any do you have for this lie

LOL??? Reza Shah Junior is a devout Shiite?? Really? Please do tell more, this should be good.

Yes this is true Reza Shah The Son of Muhammad Reza Pahlavi is a very devout Shia Muslim he just does not believe in having an Islamic Government in Iran and he believes in the separation of Mosque and State but he does respect the role of Shia Islam in Iranian Culture Edited by islamicsoldier
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What proof if any do you have for this lie

Yes this is true Reza Shah The Son of Muhammad Reza Pahlavi is a very devout Shia Muslim he just does not believe in having an Islamic Government in Iran and he believes in the separation of Mosque and State but he does respect the role of Shia Islam in Iranian Culture

click to the link of video i posted in this thread

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wikipedia why are you posting a video made by a retarded iranian nationalist, who simply retains the same mentality as the pagan Arabs of the Jahiliyyah, which is:

"We found our forefathers on this creed, that's why we believe in it"

Idiots.

Edited by La'nat Ma Man
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Quote

(The late – ed.) Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Mesbah Yazdi, a top Shiite cleric and the spiritual father of Iran’s hardliner conservatives, says the Islamic Republic’s leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is aware that Iranians are evading religious teachings and turning to secularism.

...Mesbah tried to explain why the ideals promised by clerics at the onset of Iran’s Islamic revolution some 40 years ago have not materialized. These promises included political freedom, equality and economic progress.

Iranian analyst Akbar Ganji has compared Mesbah’s views to Khamenei’s insistence that Iranians have been increasingly embracing Islamic teachings. ...

Mesbah says it is a mistake for Iran to follow the example of Japan and the Unites States to focus on economic progress. Islam is not there to bring about development, he said. “It is there to bring about eternal happiness.”

Ganji challenges Mesbah’s statement and says it contradicts Khamenei’s position about the importance of the economy and his order that calls on state officials to invest all of their energy on improving the economy.

Mesbah in his interview says that Khamenei’s idea is pragmatic. “If he does not say that he wants to improve people’s economic situation, Marxists might take advantage and hijack the economy mantle. You already see Marxist ideas becoming popular at Tehran’s universities including Islamic schools.”

Mesbah had also said in a December 27 speech to women that the reason why Khamenei attaches importance to the economy is that “in most countries economic inequality has made Marxism popular.

This could have happened in Iran too if Ayatollah Khamenei did not control the situation by hijacking Marxists’ slogans.

...while Khamenei says today’s youths are more religious than the generation who was active in the 1979 Islamic revolution, Mesbah is seriously concerned that young Iranians are turning away from Islam.

Mesbah warned that “every regime official is trying to improve the economic situation like Marxists and liberals based on Khamenei’s words, and in the meantime, our spiritual values are being destroyed.”

Mesbah says that in young Iranians’ minds, “religious teachings and values are fading out and are being replaced by freedom, democracy, human rights, progress and technology. This threatens the future of the Islamic revolution. One day we open our eyes and see that we have lost the revolution.”

Mesbah says Khamenei is aware that the next generation wants a Western-style democracy even if they have to forget about religion, adding that nevertheless, Khamenei makes decisions based on pragmatism and “we should simply obey what he says.”

Mesbah named pluralism and secularism as the two biggest threats against Islam, adding that most intellectuals say that religion is not necessary for man’s life. “We see traces of secularism even among the country’s top officials. This is the case even in the seminaries.”

Elsewhere in the interview, Mesbah said: “Our officials chants slogans saying the U.S. cannot do anything to us. What do we have to help us stand against America? Officials say they want to bring prices down, but what they really want to do is compromising with the U.S. They say to Americans, we give you this concession and you lift that sanction.” ...

When he (Ayatollah Mesbah-Yazdi – ed.) looks deep into the society, “he does not see anything left from Islam, as if secularism has encompassed the entire regime, and Khamenei is going ahead in the same direction driven by pragmatism.”

Source (published on 2 January 2019)

This is rather interesting. As of January 2019, apparently the late (deceased) Ayatollah Mesbah-Yazdi was pessimistic about the ability of Iran, militarily or otherwise, to resist Western imperialism, including cultural influence, and claimed that orthodox Shia Islam was/is vanishing among young Iranians, whereas Imam Khamenei believed young Iranians were becoming more religious than the earlier (revolutionary) generation. Ayatollah Mesbah-Yazdi also averred that Imam Khamenei privately concurred with his pessimistic outlook, but pragmatically proclaimed the opposite so as to prevent the rapid collapse of the IRI. Does anyone know if his statements bear any resemblance to reality? As far as I know, Ayatollah Mesbah-Yazdi was well regarded among conservative circles in Iran, yet he supposedly claimed Imam Khamenei was concealing the truth about Iran’s spiritual decay and geopolitical weakness so as to be “pragmatic,” given that the youth were becoming more materialistic and concerned about the dire economic situation in the country, being under the influence of pro-Western “reformist” media.

Edited by Northwest
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On 10/12/2011 at 2:13 PM, Reshad said:

Disliking the current regime in Iran is not the same as being non-Muslim. Though I get your point that almost all Shah suppoters are against Islam, It is often ignored that Reza Shah, Grandson of the Shah and the would -be crown prince of Iran, now living in the U.S is a devout Shiite Muslim!!!!!!!! I wonder how these anti Islamist would respond to that?

P.R. B.S.

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On 1/14/2021 at 6:04 PM, Northwest said:

Source (published on 2 January 2019)

This is rather interesting. As of January 2019, apparently the late (deceased) Ayatollah Mesbah-Yazdi was pessimistic about the ability of Iran, militarily or otherwise, to resist Western imperialism, including cultural influence, and claimed that orthodox Shia Islam was/is vanishing among young Iranians, whereas Imam Khamenei believed young Iranians were becoming more religious than the earlier (revolutionary) generation. Ayatollah Mesbah-Yazdi also averred that Imam Khamenei privately concurred with his pessimistic outlook, but pragmatically proclaimed the opposite so as to prevent the rapid collapse of the IRI. Does anyone know if his statements bear any resemblance to reality? As far as I know, Ayatollah Mesbah-Yazdi was well regarded among conservative circles in Iran, yet he supposedly claimed Imam Khamenei was concealing the truth about Iran’s spiritual decay and geopolitical weakness so as to be “pragmatic,” given that the youth were becoming more materialistic and concerned about the dire economic situation in the country, being under the influence of pro-Western “reformist” media.

@Ashvazdanghe @kamyar @Soldiers and Saffron

Is this true?

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5 hours ago, Northwest said:

Salam,

Before I respond to what has been said, I would like to bring it to your attention that the source of which you are using, is most certainly not reliable and not a place I would turn to get factual information regarding any topic whatsoever.

Its owned by: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Liberty

Which in turn is funded and administrated by: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Agency_for_Global_Media

 

 

As to what the article is alluding to (many people not caring about religion), its not news because it is nothing new, it has always been like that and it will always be like that. Not only in Iran and regarding Islam but in all countries around the world and regarding any type of ideology.

Most peoples passion for their ideology starts and ends with the size of their wallets. Meaning most people are opportunists and do not really have belief in whatever they claim to have belief in.

This is what I have personally come to realize through observing and reflecting on different peoples behaviors from all sorts of ideologies. Whether they say they are: communists, capitalist, christian, hindu, globalist, etc. It is all words most of the time and there is not real conviction regarding their ideological belief. Conviction for a belief most definitely results in a readiness to sacrifice for it and most people are simply not ready to "put their money where their mouths are".

Regarding Islam and Iran, the people who are religious are religious and they take their religion dead seriously. The people whos religion is a joke to them, just a ego driven identity, a simply cultural phenomena, a means to gain materialistic gains, etc. They always shift in different ways, whatever is materialistically best for them at the moment. Those people have no self respect, no integrity and no dignity, they take their religion as a joke and life as a whole as a joke and they will too be treated as a joke when their time comes.
 

It has always been like that and it will always be like that, truly religious people are very few but by the blessing and favor of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) such people have the power in Iran and I am not saying that all of the people in power in Iran are truly religious because that is not the case, some of them are also materialistic opportunists but the ones at the top, are truly religious, thats what I believe. I judge a man by the enemies he has.

I believe that at the end of the day, when it comes to ambition and establishing a society, truly religious people will always have more ambition because they are ready to sacrifice themselves for what they believe in because what muslims (actual muslims) believe in is beyond life and death. It started before life and will continue after death, it is eternal. While what opportunistic people believe in starts with life and ends with death. I believe in the power of God, I am not worried about any of that, if we listen to God it is in our interest and our honor and if we do not it will not make God any less great or powerful. Whatever He wills, will happen and it does not matter who believes and disbelieves.

Having said all that, Iranian people are spiritual people, they, even if they are not practicing muslims, still believe in God and the afterlife. For an Iranian to become a complete atheist is a pretty far away place from where they usually are, historically speaking, culturally speaking and of course religiously speaking.

As for the other part of what the article was alluding to (seyyed Khamenei is ready to compromise on Islam for the sake of money) I do not see a problem in seyyed Khamenei wanting to improve Irans economy and I do not see him doing it at the cost of Islamic principles/teachings, if he was ready to do that he would call for an alliance with the chief of the banks (israel) instead of fighting them and neither did he recommend the parlament to make a deal with the west regarding the nuclear energy program (he recommended them the opposite) but they did it anyways (current parlament are more liberal (Rohani)) and the fruits of that deal has been completely void as expected now the pro-dealers (the more liberal elements of the parlament) have been humiliated by their own actions and I am happy that it happened because now it cannot be said that "we should try it".

That is my view on it and my understanding of the situation, I hope it gave another layer of perspective on reality and some clarity.

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They are not leaving Islam, they are just not that religious. Go to my country and you will see the same thing, it’s not only in Iran. I have Iranian friend who attend Ashura but he rarely pray (according to him). There are ppl who believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) but do not pray as well.

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On 1/18/2021 at 12:09 PM, Soldiers and Saffron said:

always been like that and it will always be like that, truly religious people are very few but by the blessing and favor of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) such people have the power in Iran and I am not saying that all of the people in power in Iran are truly religious

There are millions of Muslims all over the world. You can’t make a generalized statement that religious people are only a few. That is just not true. 
 

You can’t also claim that people in power of one country is above in religiosity, and that’s why they hold power. God gives power to whom He wants. Religious or not. 
 

Edited by Caroling
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On 1/18/2021 at 12:09 PM, Soldiers and Saffron said:

I believe that at the end of the day, when it comes to ambition and establishing a society, truly religious people will always have more ambition because they are ready to sacrifice themselves for what they believe in because what muslims (actual muslims) believe in is beyond life and death. It started before life and will continue after death, it is eternal. While what opportunistic people believe in starts with life and ends with death. I believe in the power of God, I am not worried about any of that, if we listen to God it is in our interest and our honor and if we do not it will not make God any less great or powerful. Whatever He wills, will happen and it does not matter who believes and disbelieves.

This is so ambiguous. What is ambition? Technological advancement? Becoming a first-world country? Maintaining religious and theocratic values? Free health-care? I judge a nation, not individuals, by how it takes care of its people. The duty of any country is to provide a good life to its citizens. Otherwise, what’s the point in ruling a country? 

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11 minutes ago, Caroling said:

This is so ambiguous. What is ambition? Technological advancement? Becoming a first-world country? Maintaining religious and theocratic values? Free health-care? I judge a nation, not individuals, by how it takes care of its people. The duty of any country is to provide a good life to its citizens. Otherwise, what’s the point in ruling a country? 

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum Sister,

I hope you are well and in good health.

What is the standard you are looking for in how a country is good towards its citizens?

I would like to understand how you would evaluate a country based on what qualities of life.  Please list them.

Thank you.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN ALLAH

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1 hour ago, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum Sister,

I hope you are well and in good health.

What is the standard you are looking for in how a country is good towards its citizens?

I would like to understand how you would evaluate a country based on what qualities of life.  Please list them.

Thank you.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN ALLAH

Wa Alaikum Salam,

Thank you sister. You too.

I suppose that the standard for any country is one that makes life easier for its people to live well and the freedom to practice religion, with no abuse of power. Always progressing toward an economy and quality of life that was better than the generation before it, so its citizens can feel comfortable and love practicing their religion. Safer roads, making the environment healthier, good healthcare, fair justice system, good housing with standardized housing regulations, educational opportunities. I imagine it can be hard for some people in other countries to practice their religion when they are struggling to provide for their families or don’t feel safe. Treating their citizens well by addressing economic disasters and offering solutions will help a society find it easier to practice their faith. Some countries turn a blind eye to the suffering of their citizens. That’s one of the many reasons why people migrate, because life is unbearable where they are from.

When country deprives its citizens of a good quality of life, they are misusing their power. 

Edited by Caroling
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I don't know about Iranians, but this is definitely an issue in Pakistan's younger, college-age generation. Very few people my age even bother to offer the obligatory prayers. Sunni men of my age group have been following a new trend for a while; they pray Jumma every third week.  It's not a shia-sunni issue; it's a general fall in observing Islamic tenets.

There are multiple reasons, but it's hard to pinpoint an exact one.

Islam isn't exactly the easiest religion to follow; neither are the other Abrahamic religions. It's also not compatible with quite a few modern moral and social norms; norms that originate from men, not God.

The only way to combat this is to make sure that younger generations are taught Islam properly from an early age.

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2 hours ago, Caroling said:

The duty of any country is to provide a good life to its citizens. Otherwise, what’s the point in ruling a country? 

A country cannot provide a decent living for its citizens so long as the rest of the world is attacking that country 24/7/365—in every conceivable and inconceivable manner—or is otherwise refusing to provide sufficient assistance to that country, thereby objectively helping the antagonistic parties. Iran has been under constant, merciless, unrelenting attack ever since the Iranian people decided to kick out a Western puppet regime, just like every other country that has tried to stand up to Western economic/cultural/military dominance. Iran has been under daily siege for more than forty years now and is far from the only non-Western land to be subject to a state of war for decade after decade. Look at Cuba and North Korea, among other states. Honestly, you really need to become historically literate on this matter.

45 minutes ago, Caroling said:

When country deprives its citizens of a good quality of life, they are misusing their power. 

The US is not only depriving Iranians and other nations of a good quality of life, but also denying its own citizens the right to a decent life. The problem is that most Westerners, even the ones who quibble with this or that policy of their government(s), still refuse to link their destiny with that of the oppressed nations and working classes worldwide, instead preferring parochialism and refusing to see the “big picture.” Hence libertinism and xenophobia instead of internationalist solidarity against Western-led capitalism/fascism. The capitalist/fascist US government only manages to stay in power because its subjects are divided (and ruled) along every conceivable fault line and fed lies by the leading institutions of society. The US itself originated on the basis of division and genocide. It was never a true, organic civilisation like Iran, China, or Russia. A united US populace would have long since turned the US into a much better society and a truly great country, not an imperialist empire. Unless the masses are informed, united, and determined, resistance truly is futile.

Edited by Northwest
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32 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

There are multiple reasons, but it's hard to pinpoint an exact one.

The only way to combat this is to make sure that younger generations are taught Islam properly from an early age.

Unless the exact reasons are identified, merely teaching Islam properly isn’t going to reverse the trend. I think the apparent contradiction between religion and science is a major factor in the decline of faith, including but not limited to orthodox Islam. There is too much of a contradiction between religious observance and the advance of modern technology. For example, even Iran relies on science to build the weapons, medicines, et al. that defend the state and society against external, namely Western, aggression. Historically, most of modern science, including geocentrism, Euclidian geometry, physics, and so on, came from ancient pagan philosophy such as Hellenism and the occult (Masonic) schools, not orthodox, Abrahamic religion. Hebrew cosmology, for instance, posits a flat, immutable, fixed Earth and does not allow for modern physical applications. People would probably be more religiously observant if the religious institutions themselves were to behave more consistently and revert to a pre-modern lifestyle that depends solely on proper observance of Islamic law and faith in Allah alone. Today there is too much of a discrepancy between preaching and practice, both on the state and societal levels. Additionally, the masses probably think that God, being Himself Needless, does not depend on human worship, and have trouble visualising the connection between religious practice and personal/societal wellbeing.

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3 hours ago, Caroling said:

There are millions of Muslims all over the world. You can’t make a generalized statement that religious people are only a few. That is just not true.

A person calling him or herself a muslim does not make them a mu'min(true believer). When I refer to religious people I am referring to mu'mins not to anyone who would say they are muslim if asked or even assumed.

From my own personal observations and interactions during my life so far I have seen/met a lot of muslims but not so many mu'mins. Maybe you have had a different experiance.

 

3 hours ago, Caroling said:

You can’t also claim that people in power of one country is above in religiosity, and that’s why they hold power. God gives power to whom He wants. Religious or not. 

I think you misunderstood what I said, I suggest you read what you quoted one more time.

 

3 hours ago, Caroling said:

This is so ambiguous. What is ambition? Technological advancement? Becoming a first-world country? Maintaining religious and theocratic values? Free health-care? I judge a nation, not individuals, by how it takes care of its people. The duty of any country is to provide a good life to its citizens. Otherwise, what’s the point in ruling a country? 

 

Ambition to me means the will to fulfill what you seek to fulfill, whatever that may be. For a mu'min it is clear.

What is considered a good life can be different depending on who you ask. For example: is it good that you have a belly full of food and a nice house if the food was stolen from another nation and the house belonged to someone you drove off?

Is it good if you have a lot of money in your nation because you took it from others and made them poor in return?

I dont think its a good life if you have everything materialistically but lost your dignity, integrity and honor in the pursuit of getting those things.

There is a good saying in Africa with regards to the above, they say that some people are so poor that all they have is money.

When it comes to the economical state of Iran at the present I think some context in terms of history (past 40-50 years) as well as geopolitics is needed in order to have a more complete understanding of why it is what it currently is. It is not easy to make money in a globalized world (see market) when you are not friends with the head of the banks and I think that an understanding of how modern economics on a national scale works is also needed to better understand the situation.

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Guest Psychological Warfare

Whatever we have is from Karbala.

I sincerely will tell you and most of you will disagree. 

The negatives you have been told about blood/image etc....Aza, Positives are unimaginable so the net result is Positive. 

Allow them to mourn -Do Not interfere in any way shape or form with Any Ritual in  Aza of Son of Sayeda Fatima Az- Zahra(sa). 

You will be fine. or you will loose them eventually..

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