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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Are We So Proud Of Our Ethnicity/culture?

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Reshad

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There's a difference between ethnicity and culture.

I don't see much point in being proud of an ethnicity, but there is a lot of value in culture.

Though when I say culture, I mean real culture, like literature, cuisine, morals, values etc. Not this barbaric [Edited Out] of honouring killings and FGMs.

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Salaam

It's a sense of unreasonable belonging to a meaningless piece of land which france and britain drew up

This belonging and favoritism is cased by the selfishness of the individual in his attempt to elevate his self

When he praises he will praise his own gender his own race his own tribe his own collour and language !!!

My country my gender my colour etc.

If you notice the common factor is the "I " and "my " and hence selfishness

Ernest Gellner says that nationalism is a natural consequence of industrialism. France and GB were the first industrialised societies and hence the first modern nations. But this phenomenon is not limited to these two countries only. Any industrialised country in the world has created or creates a nation.

I disagree that nationalism starts with "I " and "my ", "we" is more appropriate - the sense of belonging to a group of people that you share common views, history and language with.

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Salaam

mustafa:

I see your replies brother but i am sorry I couldn't understand your post because you seem to use symbolic language.

i was just condemning nationalism because islam condemns it.

Ressurected bunny:

Ernest Gellner says that nationalism is a natural consequence of industrialism. France and GB were the first industrialised societies and hence the first modern nations. But this phenomenon is not limited to these two countries only. Any industrialised country in the world has created or creates a nation.

I disagree that nationalism starts with "I " and "my ", "we" is more appropriate - the sense of belonging to a group of people that you share common views, history and language with.

what were the major disasters that our memory recalls in the past century? ? WWRS No?

ethnic Aryan supremacy!!! NO?

most of the wars around the world and conflicts are based on what? nationalism

why cant we say the whole earth is one nation?

and what is more logical for you to form a nation with the people who share your ideology or to make a nation with people who have the same as your color but contradict your ideology?

the favoritism based on country is baseless and illogical and the 0only explanation for it is a selfish tendency of the human to elevate his own self.

this is a result of lacking so to boost your ego you say to your self " my country, my colour, my race, MY , MY" the common factor is easily detected as the word "I" and in islam we are warned about elevating the "I"

We are warned that our worse enemy is our self as it desires what its not entitled.

i give you example

turks hate kurds

kurds hate turks

persians hate turks

persians hate kurds

kurds hate persians

turks hate persians

all of the above hate arabs

arabs hate all of the above

X hates all of the above

all of the above mutually hate X too

WHY? are there really superiority between them? when i look at them they are all the same. if you take one kurd and put him in a turkish family and he doesnt know he is kurd i bet you he will grow up shouting " death to kurds death to kurds" as the turks do WHY

A muslim has one identity which is islam and all other identities are irrelevant

a nationalist who puts nationality before his ideology is worshiping the land not god

our prophet said anout nationalism: " leave it it stinks"

it does stick and we smelt it so badly

i thought ww2 made everyone aware of this selfish disease but unfortunately

dont get me wrong when i say dont be nationalist i dont say dont love the countries but you should love all of gods lands equally and work to fix and make things better where you live.

there is no supremacy no colour supremacy no race supremacy and no one is the center of the universe and the masters

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dont get me wrong when i say dont be nationalist i dont say dont love the countries but you should love all of gods lands equally and work to fix and make things better where you live.

there is no supremacy no colour supremacy no race supremacy and no one is the center of the universe and the masters

I think you should love your country more than you love others countries ...

We are talking war, defending our rights (we everyone).

You can respect (the limits of) your enemy. But loving him is another thing.

I think that respect and honor and all these things goes one one hand, and they are superiour to love.

We are supeious to someone else for what we have deserved. Right not becaues of our color, but because of our deeds.

Love is like water. Honor is like the cup holding water. You don't need the cup, you need love. But without the cup there is no water except spilled on the ground for us to drink like animals. ... It is dangerous to operate with honor (I sense I will get burned. Damnit .... sometimes I put love before honour), yes. But it is as I said earlier like relating to fire which is also dangerous where you can get burned or have your water disinfected.

My father tells me. When you talk to me in symbols I understand you, but In iraq .... They would throw stones after you and you would get crazy. :D

Thanks and no disrespect intended

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Words must be carefully chosen in order not to be misunderstood. If I were to say that I am proud to be an American or proud to be white or proud to be a Christian or proud of my political preferences, I may as well be wearing a T-shirt with a target printed on the front and back of it and hope like crazy that people would understand what I really mean or meant during the time and location of which I said it. Not all Americans, Christians, whites and politicians represent the qualities of which I would be proud of. However, I will say that I am proud to be an active participant in the universe who is not only part of the problem, but part of the solution and everything else in-between.

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There is nothing wrong with being proud of your ethnicity or culture for that matter, or even proud. A person can be proud of being more than one thing, his religion, culture and ethnicity. I can be proud both of being a student and teacher at the same time.If we are proud it does not mean we are being racists or anything; however, if one does not affiliate himself with any country or race. The Imams did and so did the Prophet so why shouldn't we?

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There is nothing wrong with being proud of your ethnicity or culture for that matter, or even proud. A person can be proud of being more than one thing, his religion, culture and ethnicity. I can be proud both of being a student and teacher at the same time.If we are proud it does not mean we are being racists or anything; however, if one does not affiliate himself with any country or race. The Imams did and so did the Prophet so why shouldn't we?

its not wrong if you can keep it under a certain degree of moderation, but no matter how you look at it, it is stupid to be proud of something you most likely had no choice or contribution to.

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Words must be carefully chosen in order not to be misunderstood. If I were to say that I am proud to be an American or proud to be white or proud to be a Christian or proud of my political preferences, I may as well be wearing a T-shirt with a target printed on the front and back of it and hope like crazy that people would understand what I really mean or meant during the time and location of which I said it. Not all Americans, Christians, whites and politicians represent the qualities of which I would be proud of. However, I will say that I am proud to be an active participant in the universe who is not only part of the problem, but part of the solution and everything else in-between.

Islamicly it is not acceptabe

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Allah says that its a sign of hypcorisy " to like to be praised what you have not achieved"

your ethnicity is not something you achieved so that you can be proud of

your ideology is different, you can be proud of your ideology if you are following truth (culture included if it enforces religious practices)

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Have an ethnic background is not something to be shy about; I'm not saying go and boast about it. However, it is something that should make one proud of his background. For example, Imam Zain Al-Abideen (as) addresses Zyzaid's court and lets himself be known by referring to his ethnic background and where he comes from (his country of origin).

"Those who know me, know me. Those who do not, then know that I am the son of Mecca and Mina. I am the son of Zamzam and Safa. I am the son of he who gave Zakat to the poor. I am the son of the best of those who have ever put on Ihram and performed ceremonies of Hajj. I am the son of he who was taken on the night journey from house of Allah to the Mosque of Aqsa and then to Miraj. I am the son of he who was taken around by Gibrael to the Lote-tree of the boundary (Sidratul Muntaha).

"I am the son of Muhammad Mustafa(pbuh&hf). I am the son of Ali Al-Murtaza(a.s.) who fought the polytheists in the battle till they submitted to Islam and fought in the presence of the Prophet until his sword was broken and to whom Zulfikar was given. I am the son of he who had the honour to migrate twice in Islam. I am the son of Fatima the best women of the world...".

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Have an ethnic background is not something to be shy about; I'm not saying go and boast about it. However, it is something that should make one proud of his background. For example, Imam Zain Al-Abideen (as) addresses Zyzaid's court and lets himself be known by referring to his ethnic background and where he comes from (his country of origin). "Those who know me, know me. Those who do not, then know that I am the son of Mecca and Mina. I am the son of Zamzam and Safa. I am the son of he who gave Zakat to the poor. I am the son of the best of those who have ever put on Ihram and performed ceremonies of Hajj. I am the son of he who was taken on the night journey from house of Allah to the Mosque of Aqsa and then to Miraj. I am the son of he who was taken around by Gibrael to the Lote-tree of the boundary (Sidratul Muntaha). "I am the son of Muhammad Mustafa(pbuh&hf). I am the son of Ali Al-Murtaza(a.s.) who fought the polytheists in the battle till they submitted to Islam and fought in the presence of the Prophet until his sword was broken and to whom Zulfikar was given. I am the son of he who had the honour to migrate twice in Islam. I am the son of Fatima the best women of the world...".

when imam zain al abedeen says i am the son of he is ont meanign that he is just the biological son of them. he means son in the deeper meaning of loyalty to them and folowing the same path as them

"so he is not seeking to be praised by what he has not done"

he is basing it on his loyalty to them which is his own action and by saying i am their son he is declaring his ideology

its very different to saying " i am an iraqi, Babylon was so good it was the first civilization" and all this sort of garbage

if you want to be proud of islam and say " i am the son of islam and the adherent to its moral code" its very different to say " I am a Brazilian we play better soccer than any one so that makes me the best no?"

isnt it imam ali who said :

ما تكبر إلا وضيع ، ولا افتخر إلا سقيط ولا تعصب بالباطل إلا دنيء

only a low person would feel that he is high

only a looser would boast

and only a low life would have blind bias

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^ I agree about the last bit, however, I just cant seem to comprehend why it would be wrong to be proud of one's country? origin or even being a certain race?

And the Prophet was often cited (as were the Imams) to explaining their origins; if we don't have that then where do we come from?

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The only thing that united the disparate, warring Arab tribes was Islam. Nothing else has the power to bring people together other than Kalaam-Allah SWT.

my very exact thought.

Its time our 'intellectual' groups realized that and gave rest to their foreign ideological activism. Libertarianism is awesome, liberalism is fantastic, and Marxism is amazingly empathetic. But they are good in European societies where they were born. They look and can be very fruitful there. But for Islamic societies, nothing but Islam. Marxisim in Islamic countries would be out of place and weakly rooted as Salafism in Britain- it just looks ridiculous.

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Bismillah

Let me be proud of myself. Then? For this analogy.

When I am proud of myself, then I have a tumor, Aspergers Syndrom, no military engagement etc..

I am not perfect, but I am proud of myself. Like I like myself.

You really sound childish when you try to erase the lines between up us. Lines are always there. There can not not exist lines separating us, our lands from eachother. And such is it. You can say whatever you want agains Babylon or Mesoptamia / similar as long as you do that within you own lines, that you are so happy for and proud of. As soon as you enter our lines, you will shut your mouth. You have no option but to attack us from distance and call us hypocrites. Regard yourself. ... We are created from earth and water. We are supposed to be low. We are originating in a sperm. This is a lore that you can find by reflecting. Not withing some ... pathetic lines. Islam cannot be contained inside lines. You are the ones who are locked up inside yoru lines, the ignorant. The hypocrites. ... I don't want to say anything against anyone (backing up with my fathers words) to not spread disunion in your ranks. And probably your would have thanked me. But this site exists then not. You guys are lost and I feel sorry for you but still you are just ignorant. There is nothing worse than calling someone negative things, when one himsefl actually is the negative.

Peace (not the word)

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Bismillah

Let me be proud of myself. Then? For this analogy.

When I am proud of myself, then I have a tumor, Aspergers Syndrom, no military engagement etc..

I am not perfect, but I am proud of myself. Like I like myself.

You really sound childish when you try to erase the lines between up us. Lines are always there. There can not not exist lines separating us, our lands from eachother. And such is it. You can say whatever you want agains Babylon or Mesoptamia / similar as long as you do that within you own lines, that you are so happy for and proud of. As soon as you enter our lines, you will shut your mouth. You have no option but to attack us from distance and call us hypocrites. Regard yourself. ... We are created from earth and water. We are supposed to be low. We are originating in a sperm. This is a lore that you can find by reflecting. Not withing some ... pathetic lines. Islam cannot be contained inside lines. You are the ones who are locked up inside yoru lines, the ignorant. The hypocrites. ... I don't want to say anything against anyone (backing up with my fathers words) to not spread disunion in your ranks. And probably your would have thanked me. But this site exists then not. You guys are lost and I feel sorry for you but still you are just ignorant. There is nothing worse than calling someone negative things, when one himsefl actually is the negative.

Peace (not the word)

salaam

brother structure your replies and dont use so much symbolic language so people can understand .

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A person must not elevate himself in a negative way.

He must elevate himself in a positive way.

When I elevate myself over others, that is negative.

When I elevate myself over this life (what is appearent by adams sons), that is positive.

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Being proud is a sin

+1

It's not even about race or culture. It's about pride. Pride is bad. In whatever form. The most stupid and ignorant of all is being proud of your ''Islam''. How the hell can you be proud of something that tells you to never be proud.

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+1

It's not even about race or culture. It's about pride. Pride is bad. In whatever form. The most stupid and ignorant of all is being proud of your ''Islam''. How the hell can you be proud of something that tells you to never be proud.

maybe the words are causing confusions here

there is the pride

and there is the arrogance

pride of the ideology is different to pride of the self

pride is basically raising some thing and elevating it and loving it

i think in arabic it means " اعتزاز

the bad pride is being proud of ones self

beign proud of islam or being proud of a prophet or a holy book is a good thing

you see what i mean?

the bad side is elevating the self

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Bismillah

Let me be proud of myself. Then? For this analogy.

When I am proud of myself, then I have a tumor, Aspergers Syndrom, no military engagement etc..

I am not perfect, but I am proud of myself. Like I like myself.

You really sound childish when you try to erase the lines between up us. Lines are always there. There can not not exist lines separating us, our lands from eachother. And such is it. You can say whatever you want agains Babylon or Mesoptamia / similar as long as you do that within you own lines, that you are so happy for and proud of. As soon as you enter our lines, you will shut your mouth. You have no option but to attack us from distance and call us hypocrites. Regard yourself. ... We are created from earth and water. We are supposed to be low. We are originating in a sperm. This is a lore that you can find by reflecting. Not withing some ... pathetic lines. Islam cannot be contained inside lines. You are the ones who are locked up inside yoru lines, the ignorant. The hypocrites. ... I don't want to say anything against anyone (backing up with my fathers words) to not spread disunion in your ranks. And probably your would have thanked me. But this site exists then not. You guys are lost and I feel sorry for you but still you are just ignorant. There is nothing worse than calling someone negative things, when one himsefl actually is the negative.

Peace (not the word)

Tell me, my friend, did you create this Babylon you are so proud of? Or did people who happen to come from the same region and lived centuries ago? This pride is dangerous, it is the reason for the decay of the Ummah, it is the reason why the Middle East is the Laughing stock of the world, it is the reason why Arabs lose every single war this century, It is why all the Islamic countries are so backwards ,it is the reason why invading Iraq was so easy, and worst of all it is the reason why we refuse to change!!! You shouldnt feel sorry for anyone, but you should look in the mirror and feel , and try to admit the truth. After that try to think of ways you can better your country instead of living in the false fantasy that it is already something to be proud of

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There no real reason to be proud of ethnicity. Any who do feel proud of their ethnicity are only fooling themselves.

Imam Jafar (as) said;

“The Messenger of Allah has said, ‘Whoever practices racial discrimination or it is practiced for him has removed the collar of belief from his neck.’”

Al-Kafi, Book of Belief and Disbelief H 2542, CH 119, h 2

“The Messenger of Allah has said, ‘Whoever has racist feelings in his heart of the size of mustard seed, on the Day of Judgment Allah will raise him with the Arabs of the time of Jahiliyah (dark age).’”

Al-Kafi, Book of Belief and Disbelief H 2543, CH 119, h 3

“On the Day of Judgment Allah will join those who practice racial discrimination with a race in fire.”

Al-Kafi, Book of Belief and Disbelief H 2544, CH 119, h 4

“The angels thought that Satan was one of them. In the knowledge of Allah he was not one of them. He (Satan) let out that which was in his soul with racist feelings and anger saying,‘You have created me from fire and You created him from clay.’”

Al-Kafi, Book of Belief and Disbelief H 2546, CH 119, h 6

“Once, Ali ibn al-Husayn, was asked about racist feelings. He said, ‘The racist feeling that is a sin is the one that makes a person call the evil doers of his own people better than the virtuous individuals of the other people. A man’s loving his own people is not racism but it is a sin to help one’s own people to commit injustice.”

Al-Kafi, Book of Belief and Disbelief H 2547, CH 119, h 7

these are amazing quotes from Al-Kafi hadith. thankyou for sharing.

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I think it's wrong to state that one ethnic group is superior to another. This we can agree upon (prejudice and racism).

But what's okay is to be proud of your cultures accomplishments. Or things that you've learned from your culture that you feel have aided you in becoming a great person.

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Pride cannot be regulated or monitored.

The need to be proud of ones ethnicity has its place ,since it is one of the outer aspects of knowing the "donkey" which we must ride every day .We must care for it look after it as it can help us as we struggle and travel along the journey of life .

However, too much pride of our "donkey" and the origin of its stock will be like worshiping an ass.

May Allah make us more aware of our inner struggle and may we never deny a man his HAQQ just because we think we are better or that because they are from a different race they are inferior.

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(salam)

It's not always pride. It's a part of identity.

People always want to identify themselves - it's a part of our psychological makeup. It also becomes easier to open up to people we feel we share identity with.

For example, as a (partially) Arab Muslim - I will feel more comfortable with any of my Muslim brothers over a Non-Muslim brother.

Will I feel more comfortable around arabs? Depends on how the individual was raised.

Personally I started practicing Islam a little later in my life - and engaged in activity through the local community - which was mainly Pakistani.

So my identity? I am Arab - but not Arab. Feel comfort with the Pakistani Shia - but not Pakistani.

In Short - It's often easy to identify through culture - and it is why we see cultures sticking together.

It can also be said this is why we find Lebanese/Syrian/Egyptian associating better with certain Europeans - as culturally they may feel a lot common and find it easy to identify with.

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I don't think we disagree. But we are a little quick in making a conclution (and attacking) about who and what is right, and what is wrong. I still say God knows best.

Peace brothers. And in reply to the claim that cultural belonging enhances our relationships, and to that it is inevitable. I want to repeat and stress and add that we are all united under the banner of Islam as it has been stated earlier. I can so to say, raise myself above anyone except he who belong to my ethnicity or call himself a muslim. And still arrogance (negative pride) is not allowed against the inferiors. ... Rigidly spoken. And I don't really think that Hitler was ... impossible. In his eyes, he was a hero and his accomplishments are grand and he died honorably, through suicide, because he knew that the enemies would not give him an honorable death. Although he was an enemy, he was a worthy enemy. Although he failed in his aim, it was not totally wrong. Islam has done exactly the same. Islam has killed the disbelievers and let the believers remain alive after the water flood of Noah.

Peace

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(salam)

It's not always pride. It's a part of identity.

People always want to identify themselves - it's a part of our psychological makeup. It also becomes easier to open up to people we feel we share identity with.

For example, as a (partially) Arab Muslim - I will feel more comfortable with any of my Muslim brothers over a Non-Muslim brother.

Will I feel more comfortable around arabs? Depends on how the individual was raised.

Personally I started practicing Islam a little later in my life - and engaged in activity through the local community - which was mainly Pakistani.

So my identity? I am Arab - but not Arab. Feel comfort with the Pakistani Shia - but not Pakistani.

In Short - It's often easy to identify through culture - and it is why we see cultures sticking together.

It can also be said this is why we find Lebanese/Syrian/Egyptian associating better with certain Europeans - as culturally they may feel a lot common and find it easy to identify with.

Everyone has their preferences... im talking about pride in something as stupid as what race you were born into

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This is a good thread. Probably because I identify myself with it. There are sure other good threads, but I have not participated in them. I position myself in a place where I can judge what is good because i have participated here. When people say what is good based on appearances, then they are not qualified to judge good or bad, these people are ignorant (and this is discussable). Good is what I make, what the subject makes. When I go to someplace it is then not it that defines how good I will be, but I who define how good that place is. Intelligence is inside you (and your culture) not something found as a negative quality in others.

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