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MysticKnight

28 Issues With Quran

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Problems.rtf

I wrote 28 issues there. If anyone finds a solution to any of them, just post it.

Some of your questions/concerns are not bad ones at all.

But I will let you know this.

I once had similar confusions and indeed it was quite confusing when translated from Arabic back to English.

But realize this, the Quran itself isn't a book that's so easily comprehensible.

A lot of people either take it COMPLETELY out of context while others are just confused about the messages it implies (not clear or specific enough).

In your particular situation I see you're a brother of good faith and are truly trying to understand what these particular

verses are about. You're not trying to ridicule or incite tensions at all.

My best piece of advice is that the Quran is a completely broad book. It is a useful tool for understanding morals but

it is VERY broad for non-Arabic speakers/readers. The best way to understand its powerful material is to follow it up by asking scholars to explain them or find hadiths and other Islamic related resources that can further elaborate, specify, and make the messages more clearly understood.

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If you dont have anything to contribute, please stay out of this thread. Many of the alleged discrepancies have been fully replied to and no answer has been received of yet. You're just coming in, guns blazing, having no clue where this discussion is even going. The above point about solomon has already been put in context by other verses about this world being used as a means to procure rewards for the afterlife.

Now shoo :)

Well

I did come in saying:

"Probably of no consequence here but I saw this as I was reading.

As far as I know Solomon only asked for wisdom. This was why he was praised and rewarded by God."

(not with guns blazing. :))

In the original scriptures, the Torah, Solomon was said only to have asked for wisdom from God which God rewarded him for his humble request. This is what was understood through thousands of generations. I did not know it was written differently in the Qur'an.

You did not need to reply although I'm glad you did because I like learning new things, don't you? You caused me to look up this to verify my own understanding.

5 In Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.

6 And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.

7 And now, O Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.

8 And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.

9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?

10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.

11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;

12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

13 And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.

14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days. (1 Kings 3 and also, 2 Chronicles 1:7)

Salaam.

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When I was a Shiite Muslim, there was a lot of things I couldn't see or rather what my mind would do, is substitute another sentence for the sentence there.

As far as desire of dunya was concerned, I had a similar understanding to that Lanatin. That desiring it as a means is fine, but not as an end.

When it came to the sentence of "except that the ancients rejected them", I made a complete different sentence in my mind.

What is happening is that we are realizing the words themselves are absurd, so we must make a different sentence to replace it. In this case, Wing has replaced it already with three different reasons, none of them which are stated in the verse. The verse gives a very clear reason, in clear words, it's just that it's absurd.

You're so self-conceited its unbelievable, no one is seeing what you're 'seeing', we are taking all the verses of the Quran together and making a reasonable assessment. The only one who is being so unbelievably absurd is you, you make things that are so simple and have been understand by muslims for 14 centuries into something irreducibly unintelligible to your schizophrenic brain. You just can't admit you're wrong about anything unless you decode that thing for yourself. I've responded to every point and all you do is go back to square one like a robot.

I mean its not me or wing who is charactarizing this world as a means, it's the Quran itself. Clear verses have been posted pertaining to your petty squabble. Qarun's story in Surah Qasas is a brilliant showcasing of what the Quran is meaning when speaking of desiring this world. Wing has already quoted a part of it. Desiring this world and using it as a means have been both mentioned in the story:

"But seek, through that which Allah has given you, the home of the Hereafter; and [yet], do not forget your share of the world. And do good as Allah has done good to you. And desire not corruption in the land. Indeed, Allah does not like corrupters....So he came out before his people in his adornment. Those who desired the worldly life said, "Oh, would that we had like what was given to Qarun. Indeed, he is one of great fortune." (Quran 28:77&79)

Read through my last post addressed to you diligently, the conclusion is so obvious only an egomaniac would reject it.

Edited by Lanatin

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Clynn,

Read the passage 38:30-40. It begins with a praise of Solomon's highly noble character and spiritual awareness. It then gives 2 examples to illustrate this point:

- his love for the wordly benefits under his possession stemmed from his constant remembrance of God, meaning he always had in mind the higher meaning if things

- his succesful passing of the test he was put through, as he saw a lifeless body sitting on his throne, symbolizing the ephemerity of all wordly things including the rule of a mighty king leaving behind all his possessions. Solomon immidiately began praying for forgiveness, as any humble believer does whether or not he has sinned, and requested to be granted a kingdom that will not suit anyone after him. This request implied a kingdom that could not be inherited, because it cannot be said from any of the things he was given, that they would not suit anyone after him. Many noble men, let alone prophets of God rose after him and could have made use of all of his powers and possessions with full wisdom, responsibility, and God-consciousness.

The only thing that could not be passed on and that Solomon was requesting as he saw the dead body on his throne, was the spiritual kingdom. This request was granted 38:40, and as a reward of his humility and turning-away from worldly ambitions (as also seen from his refusal to compromise his spiritual message to the Queen of Sheba who had tried luring him with wordly gifts), he was also given certain supernatural powers 38:36-38.

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Lanat I agree that there are verses that teach to take the life of the world as a means to the hereafter, but I also see verses that teach the life of this world is only certain things like money, women, etc, and there are other verses that state the life of this world is only means of deception. If you look at the sermon I posted in Nahjul balagha, it teaches the world is not just means of deception, but in fact, the opposite, a lesson and means towards an honorable life that brings fruits in the next world. What I am seeing through all this is a contradiction along with the verses that forbid desire of the life of this world. You and others keeping saying "The Quran doesn't forbid desiring the world but only if you take as this and that", in your case, your stating if we take it as end. Others have different opinions, and don't have a problem of taking wordly things as an end, just as long as you don't prefer it over God or trade this world for religion or causes you disbelieve in the religion. At any rate, everyone is coming up with their own sentences, but at least your modification has support in other verses, it's just that while you see "aha this is what the verse means", I see a contradiction. Anyways, even if we go by your modification of the sentence "as an end", isn't it possible people both desire this world as the end, and still desire the next world? I mean think about this. In the west, people live for this world. Yet at the end, they still believe in God and the next world. They want to live for this world and work hard to achieve in it, yet they also want to be in heaven. And this is the other side of the equation. People can desire the next world, and be bad people. They can be people of other religions then Islam whom have even rejected Islam, but still desire to make it to heaven. I'm saying even if we go by your interpretation, it still doesn't solve the issue. When I wrote the problem I had in mind the interpretation you had anyways. I just suggested the fact we desire it as a means to an end, doesn't mean we don't desire it. I said this added to the problem already there.

Anyways there is no need for insults and personal attacks.

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Lanat I agree that there are verses that teach to take the life of the world as a means to the hereafter, but I also see verses that teach the life of this world is only certain things like money, women, etc, and there are other verses that state the life of this world is only means of deception. If you look at the sermon I posted in Nahjul balagha, it teaches the world is not just means of deception, but in fact, the opposite, a lesson and means towards an honorable life that brings fruits in the next world. What I am seeing through all this is a contradiction along with the verses that forbid desire of the life of this world. You and others keeping saying "The Quran doesn't forbid desiring the world but only if you take as this and that", in your case, your stating if we take it as end. Others have different opinions, and don't have a problem of taking wordly things as an end, just as long as you don't prefer it over God or trade this world for religion or causes you disbelieve in the religion. At any rate, everyone is coming up with their own sentences, but at least your modification has support in other verses, it's just that while you see "aha this is what the verse means", I see a contradiction. Anyways, even if we go by your modification of the sentence "as an end", isn't it possible people both desire this world as the end, and still desire the next world? I mean think about this. In the west, people live for this world. Yet at the end, they still believe in God and the next world. They want to live for this world and work hard to achieve in it, yet they also want to be in heaven. And this is the other side of the equation. People can desire the next world, and be bad people. They can be people of other religions then Islam whom have even rejected Islam, but still desire to make it to heaven. I'm saying even if we go by your interpretation, it still doesn't solve the issue. When I wrote the problem I had in mind the interpretation you had anyways. I just suggested the fact we desire it as a means to an end, doesn't mean we don't desire it. I said this added to the problem already there.

Anyways there is no need for insults and personal attacks.

In Quran terminology the phrase "desire of the world" is used only for those devoid of God-consciousness in their enjoyments of the things of this life, and thus become neglectful of the Hereafter where they will have no share. This is clear from the context where the phrase is used.

The Quran never describes a righteous believer as someone who "desires this world", but always as someone seeking the enjoyment of what is lawful, in God-consciousness, having in mind the higher meaning of things.

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As long as you understand the root of your misunderstanding, which was to apply the phrase "desire of the world" to people in general while the Quran intends it for specific individuals, then sure we can move on to your next issue.

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"Desires the the life of this world" (a)

"Will have nothing but hell-fire in next world"(B)

a ->b

This is what I understand from the sentence. Anyone with property (a) will have property (B).

Desires the next world ©

Will be given from next world(d)

c -> d

What I'm saying is that a and c are not mutually exclusive.

It's possible to desire both.

Your sentence more resembles like this....

"Desires the the life of this world" (a)

"Will have nothing but hell-fire in next world"(B)

"Are devoid of God consciousness"(e)

"Neglectful of the hereafter"(f)

a and e and f ->b

But that is a whole different sentence from the original. The original sentence simply said whomever desires the life of this world will have nothing but hell fire in the next.

But even if this is true, even if they must be neglectful of the hereafter, and devoid of taqwa, it's still possible to desire heaven. And in fact, most people whom don't concentrate on the next world and often do things to God's displeasure (per their religion) and are sinful, still believe in God, do some good deeds, and desire heaven. They don't desire to become nothing, nor do they desire hell, which shows logically they desire a good life in the next world.

So this would not solve the issue anyways. The contradiction will still remain.

Here are three more issues not covered in 28 issues:

1) Signs only sent to cause fear:

[shakir 17:59] And nothing could have hindered Us that We should send signs except that the ancients rejected them; and We gave to Samood the she-camel– a manifest sign– but on her account they did injustice, and We do not send signs but to make (men) fear.

[Pickthal 17:59] Naught hindereth Us from sending portents save that the folk of old denied them. And We gave Thamud the she-camel – a clear portent save to warn.

[Yusufali 17:59] And We refrain from sending the signs, only because the men of former generations treated them as false: We sent the she-camel to the Thamud to open their eyes, but they treated her wrongfully: We only send the Signs by way of terror (and warning from evil).

This verse was already brought up before. However what was discussed was the issue of why signs were not sent. Right now the focus is on why signs are sent in the first place. And here the reason also seems not to make sense. It is said signs are only sent to make people fear. But does that make sense? Let’s think about. Signs by definitions are proof. So this would mean the only thing God desires to do with proving Messengers are causing people to fear. As opposed to causing people to believe and that belief to be followed up by loving the virtues taught by God and following the right path, the motive is simply to make them fear. Not to hope, not to love, not to be good out of love, but to make them fear?

Such a reason is absurd. Obviously signs are proofs and should make people know the truth. The purpose of showing the truth shouldn’t be simply to make people fear and live in terror. Perhaps this can a be a purpose, but not the only reason.

Moreover such a notion is contradicted by Quran. In other places it said Messengers are sent so people rise up with justice, and to bring them from the darkness to the light. “Signs” are automatically proofs and evidence of a Messenger, and is connected to God wanting people to know the Messengers are telling the truth, which is connected to the purpose of God sending Messengers. So this cannot be the only reason of sending Signs per account of Quran as well.

The premises are as follows:

1) God sent signs to prove Messengers are true...

2) the purpose of proving them to be true is not simple to cause fear but to guide people from darkness to light, and to teach justice and virtues, and such a motive cannot be simply out of fear.

3) Therefore the notion that signs are only sent to cause fear would contradict Quran.

4) The Quran states signs were only sent to cause fear.

5) Therefore Quran contradicts itself.

The syllogism is as follows:

Signs are sent to provides proofs for Messengers.

Messengers are proven to be followed.

They are to be followed so that people can rise up for justice, be brought of darkness to light, and embody virtues.

Therefore Signs are sent for more then causing fear.

Now for it be only sent for fear....either the purpose of rising up for justice, being virtuous, moving from darkness to light, is all for fear or that fear is suppose to be the underlying motive for all that. It cannot simply just be a factor, but must be the motive. But both of these notions are absurd and contradict Quran. For example, hope in God, wanting to please him, love of God, these are suppose to be motives not simply out of fear. Also, the Quran has the goal of being purified and completing his favor is to be make it to the state of appreciation. Is appreciation something that should be motivated by simply fear?

Can non-believers be guided?

1) Those whom don't believe in God's Ayat, God will not guide them (16:104)

2) God guides to faith.(49:17)

3) To be guided to faith, one must leave state of not believing to believing.

4) Therefore to be guided to faith, one must be guided while they do not believe in God's Ayat.

5) God says he doesn't guide people in that state.

6) God says he does guide people in that state.

5&6 contradict.

Believing in God and doing good enough to enter paradise?

íóæúãó íóÌúãóÚõßõãú áöíóæúãö ÇáúÌóãúÚö ۖ Ðóٰáößó íóæúãõ ÇáÊóøÛóÇÈõäö ۗ æóãóäú íõÄúãöäú ÈöÇááóøåö æóíóÚúãóáú ÕóÇáöÍðÇ íõßóÝöøÑú Úóäúåõ ÓóíöøÆóÇÊöåö æóíõÏúÎöáúåõ ÌóäóøÇÊò ÊóÌúÑöí ãöäú ÊóÍúÊöåóÇ ÇáúÃóäúåóÇÑõ ÎóÇáöÏöíäó ÝöíåóÇ ÃóÈóÏðÇ ۚ Ðóٰáößó ÇáúÝóæúÒõ ÇáúÚóÙöíãõ {9}

[shakir 64:9] On the day that He will gather you for the day of gathering, that is the day of loss and gain; and whoever believes in Allah and does good, He will remove from him his evil and cause him to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide therein forever; that is the great achievement.

[Pickthal 64:9] The day when He shall gather you unto the Day of Assembling, that will be a day of mutual disillusion. And whoso believeth in Allah and doeth right, He will remit from him his evil deeds and will bring him unto Gardens underneath which rivers flow, therein to abide for ever. That is the supreme triumph.

[Yusufali 64:9] The Day that He assembles you (all) for a Day of Assembly,- that will be a Day of mutual loss and gain (among you), and those who believe in Allah and work righteousness,- He will remove from them their ills, and He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever: that will be the Supreme Achievement.

According to this verse, all one must do is believe in God and do good to enter paradise. However many verses show you cannot disbelieve in God's guidance (ie. his Messengers/revelations/books/Guides).

It's also possible to believe in God and associate with him per this verse:

æóãóÇ íõÄúãöäõ ÃóßúËóÑõåõãú ÈöÇááóøåö ÅöáóøÇ æóåõãú ãõÔúÑößõæäó {106}

[shakir 12:106] And most of them do not believe in Allah without associating others (with Him).

[Pickthal 12:106] And most of them believe not in Allah except that they attribute partners (unto Him).

[Yusufali 12:106] And most of them believe not in Allah without associating (other as partners) with Him

Now the contradiction is

1) You can believe in God and deny Islam/Quran/his revelations.

2) You can believe in God and still be a Mushrik.

Per the verse 64:9 if you do either of these, and you do good, you will enter paradise.

Per other verse, you will be in hell.

This seems to be a clear contradiction.

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Lanat I agree that there are verses that teach to take the life of the world as a means to the hereafter, but I also see verses that teach the life of this world is only certain things like money, women, etc, and there are other verses that state the life of this world is only means of deception. If you look at the sermon I posted in Nahjul balagha, it teaches the world is not just means of deception, but in fact, the opposite, a lesson and means towards an honorable life that brings fruits in the next world. What I am seeing through all this is a contradiction along with the verses that forbid desire of the life of this world. You and others keeping saying "The Quran doesn't forbid desiring the world but only if you take as this and that", in your case, your stating if we take it as end. Others have different opinions, and don't have a problem of taking wordly things as an end, just as long as you don't prefer it over God or trade this world for religion or causes you disbelieve in the religion. At any rate, everyone is coming up with their own sentences, but at least your modification has support in other verses, it's just that while you see "aha this is what the verse means", I see a contradiction. Anyways, even if we go by your modification of the sentence "as an end", isn't it possible people both desire this world as the end, and still desire the next world? I mean think about this. In the west, people live for this world. Yet at the end, they still believe in God and the next world. They want to live for this world and work hard to achieve in it, yet they also want to be in heaven. And this is the other side of the equation. People can desire the next world, and be bad people. They can be people of other religions then Islam whom have even rejected Islam, but still desire to make it to heaven. I'm saying even if we go by your interpretation, it still doesn't solve the issue. When I wrote the problem I had in mind the interpretation you had anyways. I just suggested the fact we desire it as a means to an end, doesn't mean we don't desire it. I said this added to the problem already there.

Anyways there is no need for insults and personal attacks.

The contradiction itself not truly the significant point here. What is valued in your post is, you are demonstrating the subjective nature of the topic.

This person says this, this person says that. This verse says this and that, and it means this that and the other.

One person may jump in and say....well these other verses demonstrate to us, that X explanation is the truth, thus nullifying the contradiction. However, just the same, another person can jump in and say...I have Y verses from the Quran, therefore the contradiction remains.

With the vast plethora of verses and their interpretations, and the near infinite number of controversial hadith (which are further used for interpretation of Islamic matters), it becomes, essentially impossible to truly come to a conclusion on many matters. Contrary to what some may claim.

Because of the subjective nature of the debate, any person can enter the conversation and say "this is the truth, here are the verses that show us why". Each individual being completely convinced without a shadow of a doubt that they are correct. However, each individual differs, exposing the reality of the matter.

Not that people are blind (whether its sunni or shia), but rather, the reality of the matter is vaguely understood, and that is the way it has been for a very long time.

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The contradiction itself not truly the significant point here. What is valued in your post is, you are demonstrating the subjective nature of the topic.

This person says this, this person says that. This verse says this and that, and it means this that and the other.

One person may jump in and say....well these other verses demonstrate to us, that X explanation is the truth, thus nullifying the contradiction. However, just the same, another person can jump in and say...I have Y verses from the Quran, therefore the contradiction remains.

With the vast plethora of verses and their interpretations, and the near infinite number of controversial hadith (which are further used for interpretation of Islamic matters), it becomes, essentially impossible to truly come to a conclusion on many matters. Contrary to what some may claim.

Because of the subjective nature of the debate, any person can enter the conversation and say "this is the truth, here are the verses that show us why". Each individual being completely convinced without a shadow of a doubt that they are correct. However, each individual differs, exposing the reality of the matter.

Not that people are blind (whether its sunni or shia), but rather, the reality of the matter is vaguely understood, and that is the way it has been for a very long time.

Suppose Quran has contradictions. Suppose this is true. If a person can always change the sentence into what they want it to mean, for example, in verse 17:59 add all sorts of reasons and factors, that has vague support from Quran, and then argue the verse is stating all these reasons, sure you won't have a problem with anything. You can change every sentence. But if that's true, whether the Quran is from God or not from God, you won't find contradictions in it because everyone can change sentences. If this is true, then this alone refutes the notion in Quran that if it was from other then God, you would find in it much contradictions. Rather, if all sentences are up to subjective interpertation and there can't be any objective analysis of any of the words, then whether it was from God or not, people would not be able to find in it any contradictions. It would unfalsifiable.

I don't think it's as subjective as you may think it is. The structure of the language here is very simple, and the sentences can be broken down to:

a) Desire the life of this world.

B) Will having nothing in hereafter but hell fire and will not be given from the next world

c) Desire the next world

d) Will be given from next world.

a -> b

c -> d

Desiring both:

a and c -> b and d

b and d contradict, and hence we have a contradiction.

a and c don't contradict and is the norm of most people.

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Friend or Foe?

Another issue is that it said in one Surah not to befriend/love your enemy and enemy of God. Then it is also said in the same Surah that God only forbid you from befriending/loving those whom fought them and drove them out of their homes, and that he doesn't forbid you from those whom have not fought them. The logic conclusion would be only those whom fought them are enemies of God. However this is contradicted in Suratal Baqara where it is said God is the enemy of disbelievers. Moreover in Suratal Fatir, it is stated that God hates disbelievers with a strong hatred (the word maqtan denotes a strong type of hatred). Naturally whom God loves people should love, and whom he hates people should hate. Then you also have verses in Suratal Maeeda that although can be argued to mean other then friendship, context as Tabatabai shows, shows it to mean friendship, and it was forbidding it with people of the book. At any rate, those verses are not necessary to show the contradiction, what has been stated previously is enough.

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The structure of the language here is very simple, and the sentences can be broken down to:

a) Desire the life of this world.

B) Will having nothing in hereafter but hell fire and will not be given from the next world

c) Desire the next world

d) Will be given from next world.

This misunderstanding was explained to you in very concise, elementary terms there http://www.shiachat....0#entry2478672. As for this:

1) Signs only sent to cause fear:

[shakir 17:59] And nothing could have hindered Us that We should send signs except that the ancients rejected them; and We gave to Samood the she-camel– a manifest sign– but on her account they did injustice, and We do not send signs but to make (men) fear.

6:67"For every prophecy is a term, and you will come to know it".

Miracles are not manifested to conform to the whims and wishes of the disbelievers, but to warn a nation 17:59"and We do not send signs but to make (men) fear". When the disbelievers make such requests, it is only because they are seeking excuses for their disbelief, or to side-track the issue of worshipping only One God and rejecting their false gods 6:36"Only those accept who listen". In the NT, Jesus is reported to have rejected his taunters' request to perform a wonderous sign, precisely due to that reason Mk8:11-13. When a warning sign is manifested through a prophet and the people reject it, their time of respite during which they are given opportunities to mend their evil ways expires and they are destroyed because such manifest sign leaves no more room for speculation. The Quran, through the stories of Muhammad who presented the miraculous Quran along with its prophecies whose rejection by Muhammad's nation despite their unfolding resulted in their defeat and destruction, or the stories of prophets of the past who presented signs and prophecies to their people with the aim of warning them but these warnings ended by causing their destruction because of their disbelief in them once they unfolded, confirms that principle 17:59"And nothing stops Us from sending the Ayat but that the people of old denied them" this denial caused their destruction such as Pharao and his people 7:130-6 or the people of Thamud of which the verse reminds "and We gave to Samood the she-camel-- a manifest sign-- but on her account they did injustice". The camel was sent after a long time of respite and continuous taunting of their prophet, just as with the prophet Muhammad, and when they rejected that sign, they were destroyed. It is thus a mercy to these very people to whom prophets of all times were confronted, that God does not answer their request immidiately but only sends the signs of warning when He deems it fit. Thus, it is in Quraysh's own interest that they do not emulate the preceding nations. If Allah accepts their request, they may be subject to severe punishment - this subtly alludes to the gradual unfolding of the Quranic miracle, and His mercy in giving them respite. The verse does not mean "We are prevented from sending miracles because previous nations disbelieved" Rather it means that "Our Mercy prevents us from sending a miracle as per your immidiate request" -adding the example of Thamud who were also given respite but eventually destroyed when they transgressed in the matter of the she-camel whom they had to leave to drink freely in the intervals of time decreed for her, and then take their turn along with their cattle when her time expired 54:27-9.

This is an important aspect of miracles. If God chooses to manifest one through his prophets or by other means, it establishes the tremendous responsibility of those that witness it. God therefore clearly warns those who demand it as a challenge or mockery, that they are in fact inviting their own doom 40:78"and it was not meet for a messenger that he should bring a sign except with Allah´s permission, but when the command of Allah came, judgment was given with truth, and those who treated (it) as a lie were lost". When the tables descended for Jesus and the Apostles 5:112-5, God warned the Apostles, through Jesus, that if they turned away after this, they would face a punishment unlike what others would normally face because it came at their own request. This is an observable reality through the history of the Jewish people and the severity of their punishements that were at the height of the miracles they witnessed and sometimes requested.

Moving to this:

Can non-believers be guided?

1) Those whom don't believe in God's Ayat, God will not guide them (16:104)

2) God guides to faith.(49:17)

3) To be guided to faith, one must leave state of not believing to believing.

4) Therefore to be guided to faith, one must be guided while they do not believe in God's Ayat.

5) God says he doesn't guide people in that state.

6) God says he does guide people in that state.

5&6 contradict.

A "disbeliever" in Quran terminology is someone who wilfully rejects guidance when it is clearly exposed to him, not someone who wasnt aware of the true faith or to whom guidance wasnt yet properly explained, as per your point 3. There are many examples to prove this but it is preferable to clear your misunderstanding in concise terms

Continuing with this:

Believing in God and doing good enough to enter paradise?

[shakir 64:9] On the day that He will gather you for the day of gathering, that is the day of loss and gain; and whoever believes in Allah and does good, He will remove from him his evil and cause him to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide therein forever; that is the great achievement.

Now the contradiction is

1) You can believe in God and deny Islam/Quran/his revelations.

2) You can believe in God and still be a Mushrik.

"doing good" in Quran terminology, and like above there are many examples to prove this, means doing what God has prescribed and commanded, and refrain from what He has forbidden. Willfully rejecting the Quran and associating with God are violations of divine commands so anyone indulging in such behavior is not included among "whoever believes in Allah and does good".

Edited by Nad_M

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6:67"For every prophecy is a term, and you will come to know it".

Miracles are not manifested to conform to the whims and wishes of the disbelievers, but to warn a nation 17:59"and We do not send signs but to make (men) fear".

When the disbelievers make such requests, it is only because they are seeking excuses for their disbelief, or to side-track the issue of worshipping only One God and rejecting their false gods 6:36"Only those accept who listen". In the NT, Jesus is reported to have rejected his taunters' request to perform a wonderous sign, precisely due to that reason Mk8:11-13. When a warning sign is manifested through a prophet and the people reject it, their time of respite during which they are given opportunities to mend their evil ways expires and they are destroyed because such manifest sign leaves no more room for speculation.

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You're not paying attention. Here it is one more time:

The verse does not mean "We are prevented from sending miracles because previous nations disbelieved" Rather it means that "Our Mercy prevents us from sending a miracle as per your immidiate request" -adding the example of Thamud who were also given respite but eventually destroyed when they transgressed in the matter of the she-camel

There are 2 parts to the verse and you are ignoring the 2nd. The verse speaks of disbelievers requesting miracles in order to believe, and God being merciful in not answering their request to avoid them the same faith as the people of Thamud who did the same and were met with destruction. This means it is God's mercy that prevents Him from answering their request because the sending of signs is not meant at destroying the people (in case a sign comes at their request as a condition to believe) but at warning them and make them mend their ways and this is proved through the example of Pharao. While you think it serves your position, the fact is it doesnt because the signs (3 to Pharao in particular and 6 to the Egyptians in general) to Pharao were not given to Moses as per anybody's request such as in the example of Thamud above, but even before Moses went to meet Pharao whom he was told to warn and make him mend his ways 43:48"And We did not show them a sign but it was greater than its like, and We overtook them with chastisement that they may turn". These were warning signs, just as 17:59 says "and We do not send signs but to make (men) fear" and when God judged that every possible warning was properly conveyed and that nothing more can be done to make them mend their ways, He imposed His judgement on the rejectors of His prophet.

As for the nation of Jesus, your attempt to use the argument that punishement did not befall them in his lifetime to counter the fact that all throughout prophetic history God destroyed those who rejected the prophets sent with manifest signs, does not hold. The Quran states, in several places that God's punishement befalls the nation of rejectors on its appropriate time, whether or not the prophet is caused to die prior to the descent of the scourge 13:40-2,36:26-32,40:77 because 58:21"Allah has written down: I will most certainly prevail, I and My messengers; surely Allah is Strong, Mighty".

Physical destruction and abasement came on them soon after Jesus' departure. The Temple of Jerusalem was razed to the ground as Jesus predicted in Matt23,24,Lk23 (Quran 17:7,3:56) the Israelites were slaughtered in large numbers women and children included, by the Romans and many more were enslaved and sold in the markets, as Jesus prophesied lk21:24 and soonafter they were scattered yet again throughout the earth and for the next 1900 years they would have no authority in this land. The area of the Temple became a place were the inhabitants of Jerusalem, including the Christians and Jews threw their garbage, in accordance with Jesus' prophecy that not a stone would be left standing on another, for the Israelites' rejection of him Luke21 and as a confirmation that should they turn away from the commands of God, God Himself will uproot them from the land He has settled them in to assert their righteousness, turn their sacred shrine into an object of ridicule among the nations 2Chronicles7:19-22.

On 16:104, look at the verses surrounding it. It is speaking of people who strongly, willfuly reject guidance when it comes to them. These are kuffar, or disbelievers. It has nothing to do with any of your examples.

Regarding 64:9, once more, a good act from a Quranic point of view is something God commanded or in accordance with the principles of this Book. The Quran repeatedly speaks of how any act devoid of this principle by those who willfuly reject those very principles, will remain "lost" in this present world and will not be accounted for in the Hereafter. This is similar to what Jesus said in the NT in Matthew 6 about those who do "good" without any perspective of the Hereafter (not as God commanded) such as praying, fasting or giving to charity only to be seen by men that they will have no reward in the Hereafter and that they will be paid in full in this world only, meaning the deed will not be considered as "good" in the Hereafter.

Similarly, believing in Allah does not merely imply believing He exists but believing in Him as is taught in His Book. The Quran gives many examples, including those of the Christians or Arab pagans who do not believe in God as they ought to due to their rejection of the way taught in God's Book, the Quran. So when 64:9 describes the succesful in the Hereafter as those "who believe in God and do good", it excludes the above mentionned groups and this is clearly attested by the direct context of the verse which you are trying to isolate and distort.

There is a reason why the Quran speaks of mawazin/scales in the Hereafter 23:102-3. The plural indicates there will be many criteria of evaluation and measurements to which a deed will be compared to, for it to be weighty in the spiritual realm.

As for the people to whom Islamic guidance did not come or who did not willfuly reject it, and who have their own beliefs according to which they act in this world, the Quran presents an exchange between the prophet Musa and Firon, explains that Allah alone decrees the destiny of those who were not reached by divine guidance for He alone knows their motives and understands the cause of their choices, and He alone can appreciate their spiritual merits and demerits 20:48-55,17:54"Your Lord knows you best; He will have mercy on you if He pleases, or He will chastise you if He pleases" 25:58"and Sufficient is He as being aware of the faults of His servants". God then adds to Moses' answer that common sense and the observation of nature must lead a person to cognizance of a unique Creator. God has created in man the innate ability to come to such conclusion through reason and observation. The Quran states that all humans have, ingrained in their souls, a basic guidance to understand the great evils and make the essential correct spiritual choices so each person is at least responsible for his response to that basic guidance. This innate guidance must be nurtured or it dies and all humans therefore will be held responsible for at least failing or succeeding in hearkening the basic calls of their ingrained God-consciousness 7:172-3,75:2,91:7-10.

So for these groups to be included among the succesful in the Hereafter, described in 64:9 as "whoever believes in Allah and does good", then their belief in God will have to be in accordance with their innate guidance and common sense, and the nature of their deeds may not conflict with their innate capacity to understand good and evil. This means that in any case, a deed is only good because it is in accordance with God's revealed principles.

Concerning your vague reference to 30:30 and Allah's fitra, it doesnt say people are born Muslims, rather that originaly, every human being is made spiritually upright, naturally inclining to the Truth and this is due to the ingrained guidance already spoken of above, which every person is responsible to nurture and develop.

Edited by Nad_M

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NadM, I feel you don't address my points and are just making up your own sentences where-ever you want. You can always says "this means this and that" , and say it to mean what you want, but the phrase won't imply it, if the words don't mean that.

Case in point for example, you are emphasizing it's God's Mercy that made him prevent sending signs to Mohammad up to that point, but the verse states a completely different statement. All the other factors you mention are also not stated in the phrase. In other words, I can't really argue with you when you are going to say "this means this and that" and put any phrase you want.

Doing good has a practical meaning every society has been aware of for a very long time. If are you going to change it to "it's only good when this and that", sure you can solve the contradiction, but it doesn't convince me. It might convince others, I don't know, but I do believe everyone including those whom reject Islam are capable of doing good deeds. This is different then stating they are righteous and not unjust, and I do believe that they can be righteous and not unjust as well, but that's a different topic.

If it says "those whom believe not in our ayat", doesn't mean "whom willfully reject our ayat"..sorry but I can't see the conversation going anywhere where you simply make every sentence mean what you want it to mean.

Also why are future generations punished for past generations in the case of Bani-Israel example? The point is that generation was not punished. And since when did oppression of others consitute a punishment of God upon a nation? Is God punishing the Palestinians now?

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Problems.rtf

I wrote 28 issues there. If anyone finds a solution to any of them, just post it.

Bismillah

First of All, you cannot base your faith on question, faith is not a question but an answer, If you have money read Tafseer-e-Qur'an, don't ever believe your faith on your question. point out my mistake, if i am wrong for We have not known much (16 years old)

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You're still not paying enough attention, and are still muddled with basic misunderstandings.

1- There was no question of God's mercy being the reason why Muhammad wasnt given any signs. The prophet Muhammad was given signs, as said in the previous post.

What i said and what the verse 17:59 is clear on, is that no sign will be sent as per the disbelievers' request, who are only seeking excuses for their disbelief, to avoid their inevitable destruction as happenned to Thamud spoken of in this same verse. So it is God's mercy preventing Him from answering their request because signs cause the destruction of those that request then reject them, while signs are meant to be a mercy to the people, making them mend their ways "and We do not send signs but to make (men) fear".

2- There was no question of willful rejectors of Islam unable to do any good, that is, in accordance with their "self-reproaching soul" and innate understanding of good and evil, however and as already stated, these good deeds will be restrained to this passing world 18:104"lost in this world's life". The restriction of these good deeds to this passing world means:

- their corresponding reward will be paid in this world, because the Quran (and Jesus in the NT as shown previously) repeatedly says that Allah never lets the good deeds remain unrewarded as seen in 11:15-16 and many other verses.

- they will have no value in the Hereafter because as stated in 23:102-103 these people will have "light scales" (see previous post for what the plural "mawazin" implies). In fact a good deed, even done by someone who has professed Islam, such as charity for example can be nullified in the Hereafter if not done as commanded 2:264.

Finally, 64:9 gives two inseparable conditions to be among the successful in the Hereafter:

- Belief in God, meaning at least in accordance with the innate guidance and common sense spoken of previously, or as prescribed in the Quran for those reached by the guidance of this Book. This excludes the willful rejecters of Islam, as per your example.

- Doing good, meaning at least in accordance with the innate guidance spoken of previously, or as prescribed in the Quran for those reached by the guidance of this Book. The willful rejecters of Islam, can still do good and be rewarded for them in this world, but their deeds will have no value in the Hereafter

As regards your off topic question, the current generation's punishement is contingent on its persistence in the evil ways for which its forefathers were punished. This means if they mend their ways, the punishment will be removed.

The punishements the Israelites had to face in this very world 3:56 for their rejection of Jesus and attempts at his life, is that they were subdued to the followers of Jesus until the Day of Resurrection 3:55"and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection". Allah is addressing Jesus and is speaking of the dominion of those who follow him over those that reject him. This favor of God is a fact proven today, with the Israelites being totally dependant upon the Christians for their survival. Today, they are condemned to the humiliating reality of being entirely dependant on other people's whims for their survival, reluctantly accepting "bribe" money and deceitful "love" from the followers of the one they bitterly rejected, for the sake of maintaining a state that is the shadow of what was once God's favor upon them.

Besides them being subdued up to this day to the Chrisitans, God warns them of further chastisement 17:8 whenever they return or persist in their wrong ways (their dark history in Christian lands more particularly bears testimony to this) as well as condemned them to have their security fully in the hands of others 3:112 ie it isnt God Himself who would repell their numerous enemies and Who would give them the upper hand on more powerful foes as he did in the times of Moses. Such security could either come from some Muslim states (of the past and today) in the name of Allah or from some non-Muslim states for other reasons. This is because 3:112"they have become deserving of wrath from Allah, and humiliation is made to cleave to them; this is because they disbelieved in the communications of Allah and slew the prophets unjustly; this is because they disobeyed and exceeded the limits" and the Quran continues by making a distinction between them 3:113"They are not all alike; of the followers of the Book there is an upright party.."

And who says the current situation of the Palestinians is a divine punishement?

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You know it took me 5+ years to realize the words "nothing prevented us from sending signs except that the former people rejected them" means exactly that, and doesn't mean "nothing prevented us from sending the signs but that we would have punished them but out of our mercy didn't want to do so". It will take time to realize what the phrase says.

1) There is only one reason that God didn't send signs up to that point.

2) That reasons is nothing else but that former people rejected them.

Adding all sorts of reasons and factors won't do away with the problem of the verse.

Even if this was stated to be the reason as you say, it would be inconsistent and enough to raise eyebrows, because all in the past people were sent signs and God's mercy never prevented him? What is he a special God towards Arabs? He is merciful towards them but not towards others?

If he can stop his ways of sending signs out of mercy, he can also stop punishing those who reject his signs....

At any rate, on top of that, he ends up sending a miracle (moon miracle)....

On top of that, it's saying Quran miracle was not clear enough to warrant punishment, which shows it's not a decisive proof. Yet they are going to be tortured eternally forever in hell, due to rejecting Quran....

All this is inconsistency.

Imagine a modern day Prophet comes along and says he confirms all the Prophets of the past. When asked why he isn't sent with miracles, he says it's out of a mercy...previous people were sent miracles God's mercy didn't prevent that from happening....but now God wants to be merciful for a change.

Three questions people can pose:

1) Why isn't he merciful to past people and sent them miracles when he knew they would reject?

2) Why is he specially merciful towards us now, what makes us special?

3) Why God can't be extra merciful and send signs and not punish for rejecting?

But imagine a modern day Prophet comes and doesn't even say "it's God's mercy I am not sent with signs..." but instead says "it's because it was always rejected in the past by majority of the people!".

Would it make sense at all? No. It would like the worse reason you can come up with. But this exactly what Quran states.

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As for belief in God, if God is defined be the Creator or the Greatest Being, then most of humanity has believed in in this concept. It's similar to how most of humanity believes in (objective) morality. Humanity differs on the details of (objective) morality but also agree upon key points. In fact, as far as belief in what type of God, it's all linked to our view of morality. Unfortunately most of humanity get's their view of morality distorted by culture and religion as well as other factors.

It doesn't make sense to say humans haven't believed in morality just because they were wrong on some of it's details or rejected some it's objective commands. In the same way, it makes no sense to say someone doesn't believe in God just because their idea of the Creator/Ultimate Being differs.

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I brought the Palestinian issue because it's inconsistent to take oppression/worldly state of Israelites to be divine punishment, but not that of others oppressed.

And Jews don't believe they rejected a true Prophet...it hardly makes sense generations later should be punished for crimes of ancestors. The miracles of Jesus is not amongst the people now and there is no historical evidence of such miracles and even arguable no historical evidence of Jesus existing. Why should Jews be punished all because one generation rejected miracles shown to them? It doesn't make sense at all....

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In those 5+ years you kept missing the second part of the verse 17:59, telling you what kind of "ancients" reject signs. They were the Thamud who were destroyed when they transgressed in the matter of the she-camel, a sign they had requested then denied 14:9-10,26:154-5. The example of Thamud, which you keep ignoring and denying is very relevant here because it is exactly the same scenario as with the Quraysh who were tauntingly demanding a sign. The verse isnt speaking of the sending of signs in general, but of the sending of signs as per the disbelievers' request.

As already said, the camel was sent after a long time of respite and continuous taunting of their prophet. During that time, they kept mockingly asking for the punishement to befall them and were urged to ask for forgiveness instead. As per the divine law (already mentionned in the previous post) concerning the prevailing of God's messengers and destruction of the die-hard rejecters, they were bound to perish at the expiration of their time of respite. This means they were bound to be destroyed whether or not their request for a sign was granted, so God used those people who were doomed in all case as an example for the following generations by accepting their request for a sign.

The answer to the question causing your eyebrows to rise is found in the previous post too. When God judges that every possible warning has been properly conveyed and that a nation's respite during which it was given sufficient time to reflect on the signs and message brought by the prophets has expired, and that nothing more can be done to make them mend their ways, He imposes His judgement on the rejecters of His prophets in this world.

While some prefer living in a lawless universe where they will never be held morally accountable, others believe in a universe based on truth, where falsehood is a disruptive force bound to vanish;

- either in this world by those causing it themselves after all possible warnings have been properly conveyed by the merciful God

- or ultimately on a Day where only deeds based on Truth will be valuable.

You're still muddled in the misunderstanding that 17:59 is a justification of why Muhammad wasnt given signs while it was explained that not only signs were given to him as and when God deemed it fit (meaning not in accordance with his opponents' desires), but also that 17:59 is concerned with answering those who request signs, wanting them to conform to their own whims, in heedlessness of the fact they are inviting their own doom.

There was no question of defining correct belief in God based on uniformity among the people's faith. Correct belief in God is first and foremost defined according to the (already mentionned) innate guidance and cognizance of God.

Uniformity among the people's faith only becomes a criteria of correct faith when these people have been reached by divine guidance and when it was properly conveyed to them, and that they have willfuly accepted it. In that case, those that willfuly reject it after having understood it become accountable for their distorted spiritual notions, as compared to the others who accepted that divine guidance.

The harships suffered by the Jews are in accordance with both Quranic and Biblical prophecies, for their transgressions despite the miracles they witnessed as a nation. Especially concerning the Quranic prophecies spoken of in the previous post, they are an ongoing phenomenon for almost 2000 years, and will remain so until the resurrection. The principle of divine punishement being at the height of the miracle witnessed was explained previously, just as the fact punishement is removed from those who do not persist in the evil ways and thoughts of their forefathers. As Jesus said in the NT in confirmation of that principle, the entire nation of Israel will be held accountable for the death of the prophets although not all of them physically took part in their murder Matt14:10,17:l2,Lk11:47-51. It is even reported that the Jews arrogantly and defiently accepted that concept of collective punishment Matt27:25"Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children".

Which prophecy attests to the same regarding the palestinians, did their harships begin after repeatedly denying nation-wide miracles as was the case above? Which principle dictates that those who live a life of ease or hardship are either favored or incuring God's wrath, considering what the Quran repeatedly says about these 2 states which all humanity goes through, having absolutely nothing to do with divine blessing or punishement?

What do you mean by the Quran being an "unclear" miracle?

Edited by Nad_M

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Problems.rtf

I wrote 28 issues there. If anyone finds a solution to any of them, just post it.

Mystic Knight, Your Title Itself Is wrong, there are never Issues with Quran, its Perfect Truth, Issues are with understanding It...

Anyways InshaAllah i will try...Lets Go one by one.ok...

I will start with Suratal Teen. In Suratal Teen it said:

áóÞóÏú ÎóáóÞúäóÇ ÇáúÅöäúÓóÇäó Ýöí ÃóÍúÓóäö ÊóÞúæöíãò {4}

[shakir 95:4] Certainly We created man in the best make.

[Pickthal 95:4] Surely We created man of the best stature

[Yusufali 95:4] We have indeed created man in the best of moulds,

Ëõãøó ÑóÏóÏúäóÇåõ ÃóÓúÝóáó ÓóÇÝöáöíäó {5}

[shakir 95:5] Then We render him the lowest of the low.

[Pickthal 95:5] Then we reduced him to the lowest of the low,

[Yusufali 95:5] Then do We abase him (to be) the lowest of the low,-

ÅöáøóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ æóÚóãöáõæÇ ÇáÕøóÇáöÍóÇÊö Ýóáóåõãú ÃóÌúÑñ ÛóíúÑõ ãóãúäõæäò {6}

[shakir 95:6] Except those who believe and do good, so they shall have a reward never to be cut off.

[Pickthal 95:6] Save those who believe and do good works, and theirs is a reward unfailing.

[Yusufali 95:6] Except such as believe and do righteous deeds: For they shall have a reward unfailing.

Now the problem is that Islam didn't come to the whole world for it even to be rejected and to exist no good people but the believers whom did good. So why are all of humanity reduced to the lowest of the low except believers? Does it make sense that there is no good humans that morally improved else where, weren't higher then animals?

Now if it is argued "believe" means in God, well the thing is Quran else where has put those whom reject revelation in the hell-fire. So it can't mean that, and it's obvious by how it's been used in Quran, it means those whom believe in Mohammad's message.

Listen,

1. Belief and faith of Ours is in Allah and Not GOD..

2. Indeed Allah is the most Just of Judges

3. Let see some logic,What happens in this World, Around us.May It be schooling or a job...When you behave indecent in school, your teacher slams you, When you do not perform your duties at the job..Your Boss does not promote you, Instead he will throw you out..

Thanks The Most Merciful Almighty , he Forgives you when you repent

Edited by ateef

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Another two verses I have a problem with and which causes contradictions are the following:

ãóäú ßóÇäó íõÑöíÏõ ÇáúÍóíóÇÉó ÇáÏõøäúíóÇ æóÒöíäóÊóåóÇ äõæóÝöø Åöáóíúåöãú ÃóÚúãóÇáóåõãú ÝöíåóÇ æóåõãú ÝöíåóÇ áóÇ íõÈúÎóÓõæäó {15}

[shakir 11:15] Whoever desires this world's life and its finery, We will pay them in full their deeds therein, and they shall not be made to. suffer loss in respect of them.

[Pickthal 11:15] Whoso desireth the life of the world and its pomp, We shall repay them their deeds herein, and therein they will not be wronged.

[Yusufali 11:15] Those who desire the life of the present and its glitter,- to them we shall pay (the price of) their deeds therein,- without diminution.

ÃõæáóٰÆößó ÇáóøÐöíäó áóíúÓó áóåõãú Ýöí ÇáúÂÎöÑóÉö ÅöáóøÇ ÇáäóøÇÑõ ۖ æóÍóÈöØó ãóÇ ÕóäóÚõæÇ ÝöíåóÇ æóÈóÇØöáñ ãóÇ ßóÇäõæÇ íóÚúãóáõæäó {16}

[shakir 11:16] These are they for whom there is nothing but fire in the hereafter, and what they wrought in it shall go for nothing, and vain is what they do.

[Pickthal 11:16] Those are they for whom is naught in the Hereafter save the Fire. (All) that they contrive here is vain and (all) that they are wont to do is fruitless.

[Yusufali 11:16] They are those for whom there is nothing in the Hereafter but the Fire: vain are the designs they frame therein, and of no effect and the deeds that they do

This verse is basically telling anyone whom has desire for this world will end up eternally in hell. Now how does that even give a remote concept of a Merciful Loving Forbearing God? Whom can not desire this world at all? Notice the verse doesn't say "only desire this world" or anything like that, it clearly states any desire for the world will result the fire forever.

Now the verse in fact has a contradiction. Paradise is promised to those whom believe and do good deeds. Now what if they like most believers probably do, have love of this world, and did some good deeds. They would be promised paradise by verses promising believers whom do good paradise, yet this verse is stating they would go hell, for desire of this world.

I do not know how you looking things at, Such simple things you cannot understand...I think the Seal is on your heart

Yes there are desires in this world...

First remember, this world is very few time, after this life is eternal life....

This World has so many evil desires. Isn't It..

Like a believer should pray and he skips the time and enjoys drinking and gambling with his friends.,..

Like a believer should give alms to the poor, instead he uses the money in evil lusts

Like a believer should speak the truth, Instead he speak lies to earn profit.

Like a believer should be good to his parents, Just to please his wife he banishes them...

Whatever in the Red are Desires...and In Green are the Good Deeds

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attachicon.gifProblems.rtf

I wrote 28 issues there. If anyone finds a solution to any of them, just post it.

brother i think i have answers to some of ur doubts.

DOUBT-2 imagine there are three people A B & C.A studied science hard to pass the exam and get good job.B studied hard science to know about God & C studied hard to pass the exam and to increase knowledge about Allah.So Allah will give 100 marks for A in this world & 0 marks hereafter Allah will give 0 marks in this world for B & 100 marks hereafter. Allah will give 50 marks in this world & 50 marks here after for C.That is what the surah means(according to my knowledge).Allah knows the best.

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attachicon.gifProblems.rtf

I wrote 28 issues there. If anyone finds a solution to any of them, just post it.

DOUBT 5- ur fifth doubt is so simple.below is your doubt

[shakir 64:11] No affliction comes about but by Allah's permission; and whoever believes in Allah, He guides aright his heart; and Allah is Cognizant of all things.

This verse states anyone whom believes in God, God will guide his heart. Yet according to Quran, anyone whom rejects Islam is misguided, and is deaf, dumb, and blind. It's possible to believe in God and reject Islam. In fact, it's possible to believe in God and be of any misguided religion. So this issue of all people whom believe in God, will be guided, is simply not true.

Allah told that whoever believe in Allah he will guide.Allah told that Quran is his words & if a person believed Quran is not word of Allah then he disbelieve Allah itself.I don't understand how can a person believe in God & reject Islam at same time.A person can only reject Islam if he disbelieve God.Because God told Islam is the true way of life.So this issue of all people whom believe in God will be guided is simply true.But your conclusion is simply false.

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attachicon.gifProblems.rtf

I wrote 28 issues there. If anyone finds a solution to any of them, just post it.

doubt 7-Following are your doubt 7

The following verses give an impression that there is no hope for the disbelievers of his time:

 

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا سَوَاءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنْذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنْذِرْهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ {6}

[Pickthal 2:6] As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.

[Pickthal 2:7] Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.

وَمَثَلُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا كَمَثَلِ الَّذِي يَنْعِقُ بِمَا لَا يَسْمَعُ إِلَّا دُعَاءً وَنِدَاءً ۚ صُمٌّ بُكْمٌ عُمْيٌ فَهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ {171}

[Pickthal 2:171] The likeness of those who disbelieve (in relation to the messenger) is as the likeness of one who calleth unto that which heareth naught except a shout and cry. Deaf, dumb, blind, therefore they have no sense.

In fact, being deaf, dumb, and blind is for the purpose of not returning:

[Pickthal 2:18] Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.

[Pickthal 24:40] Or as darkness on a vast, abysmal sea. There covereth him a wave, above which is a wave, above which is a cloud. Layer upon layer of darkness. When he holdeth out his hand he scarce can see it. And he for whom Allah hath not appointed light, for him there is no light.

Basically, they are hopeless, in the darkness, will never understand the book, deaf to hear the call.

[Pickthal 18:57] And who doth greater wrong than he who hath been reminded of the revelations of his Lord, yet turneth away from them and forgetteth what his hands send forward (to the Judgment)? Lo! on their hearts We have placed coverings so that they understand not, and in their ears a deafness. And though thou call them to the guidance, in that case they can never be led aright

This verse summarizes it perfectly:

[Pickthal 7:193] And if ye call them to the Guidance, they follow you not. Whether ye call them or are silent is all one for you

Now was that true? Apparently, they ended up coming to the religion.

[Pickthal 110:2] And thou seest mankind entering the religion of Allah in troops,

So all that talk about their fate sealed, going to hell, deaf, dumb, and blind, and they end up coming to the religion. The talk "they will not believe" and they end up coming in the religion.

A clear contradiction.

Another brief thing is that some people make "kufr" mean "to cover" or "obstinately disbelief", however we see clearly what it means here:

 

لَا إِكْرَاهَ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ ۚ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىٰ لَا انْفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ {256}

[shakir 2:256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

 

Here disbelief in the "taghut" obviously doesn't mean "obstinately" or "covering"..or anything like that. It means disbelief. And it doesn't make sense the word means something else when applied to "revelation" or "truth", with an added adjective. It obviously means the same thing.

 

So after saying "they will never be guided" "will not believe" "will not follow you", they are deaf to all calls, they ended up coming to Islam.

 

وَسَوَاءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ أَأَنْذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنْذِرْهُمْ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ {10}

[shakir 36:10] And it is alike to them whether you warn them or warn them not: they do not believe.

They ended up believing. What a prophecy

What happen to you brother? First you should understand who is a disbeliever.The disbeliever is the one who does not believe in the word of Allah.Allah will give him many signs & chances to believe(Allah is most merciful).But if any one continuously denied all the sings & chances, then  Allah will seal their hearing ,their hearts, and on their eyes.After that stage he will never believe.Because Allah had took hidaya from him.eg.A teacher gave a student warnings many times,then if he shows disobedience continuously he will be throw out of school.After that he can never study in that school again.

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one of Holy Qur'an's many miraculous verses is this:

وَ نُنَزِّلُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ ما هُوَ شِفاءٌ وَ رَحْمَةٌ لِلْمُؤْمِنينَ وَ لا يَزيدُ الظَّالِمينَ إِلاَّ خَسارا

We send down in the Qur'an that which is a cure and mercy for the faithful; and it increases the wrongdoers only in loss. 17:82

and this:

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لا يَسْتَحْيي‏ أَنْ يَضْرِبَ مَثَلاً ما بَعُوضَةً فَما فَوْقَها فَأَمَّا الَّذينَ آمَنُوا فَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِنْ رَبِّهِمْ وَ أَمَّا الَّذينَ كَفَرُوا فَيَقُولُونَ ما ذا أَرادَ اللَّهُ بِهذا مَثَلاً يُضِلُّ بِهِ كَثيراً وَ يَهْدي بِهِ كَثيراً وَ ما يُضِلُّ بِهِ إِلاَّ الْفاسِقين

Indeed Allah is not ashamed to draw a parable whether it is that of a gnat or something above it. As for those who have faith, they know it is the truth from their Lord; and as for the faithless, they say," What did Allah mean by this parable?" Thereby He leads many astray, and thereby He guides many; and He leads no one astray thereby except the transgressors 2:26

 

understanding the true meaning of Qur'an is not something easy, one must refer to commentaries and scholarly explanations of different verses, otherwise anyone can be misled by Qur'an, yes by the Holy Qur'an itself, many have gone astray, the obvious example in our era are Wahhabis and Terrorists that claim they are doing Qur'anic Jihad, may Allah put an end to them!

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