A Question To My Sunni/wahabi Brothers...

[Ali H Syed]

Salam,

I would just like to pose a question, why are sunnis etc so intent on backing the caliphate? and the un authentic hadiths.. if i was not a muslim, and a man asked me about a famous figure, and said who knows him best, my instant reply would be his family, ie. his household..., so why are they so intent on almost backing these bad examples of muslims? and i may get replies saying this is just a stupid post/thred... but when i find my self in a position where sunnis are asking me, your a shia, do you believe in the quaran? it just makes me ponder what their being taught.... thankyou.

:yaali:

[aljaafary]

they are misled by their scholars. And you know their scholar have actually drunk a conterminated knowledge that does not recognise the ahlulbyte(as)

[Ali H Syed]

they are misled by their scholars. And you know their scholar have actually drunk a conterminated knowledge that does not recognise the ahlulbyte(as)

salam brother, yeh its quite saddening, allot of sunni brothers actualy have great love for our great prophet! if only they could accept the path of the ahlulbayt! what muslims they would turn out to be

(bismillah)

[Rasul]

good question :)

why are sunnis etc so intent on backing the caliphate?

what I believe is that sunnism are builded around 3 Khalifas... if one of them Abu Bakr, Omar and Uthman fails then sunnism also fails...

[Ali H Syed]

good question :)

salam :)

yeh, it just looks to me like there in kind of a trapped position? accepting the ahylulbayt will mean condemning most figures such as the sneaky Abu Hurairah, which theyve backed and defended for countless years

(bismillah)

Edited August 5, 2011 by Ali H Syed

[بعيد]

salam :)

yeh, it just looks to me like there in kind of a trapped position? accepting the ahylulbayt will mean condemning most figures such as the sneaky Abu Hurairah, which theyve backed and defended for countless years

(bismillah)

Yeah, my Grandma is sunni and always denies when my father or I try to convince her that he made numerous false hadith about RasoulAllah (S.A.W).

[Rasul]

salam :)

yeh, it just looks to me like there in kind of a trapped position? accepting the ahylulbayt will mean condemning most figures such as the sneaky Abu Hurairah, which theyve backed and defended for countless years

(bismillah)

Wa Salam

so true brother :)

[Ali H Syed]

i was hoping for a sunni brother to enlighten us.... maybe there in the background thinking of a reply to this :angel:

(bismillah)

[.IceMan.]

I was sunni myself and honestly I'll tell you why people are not converting to shia. Because they get such an ugly imagine of shia when they see

1. ALL of you have Ahl Al Bayt (as) on their interestes but not the Prophet (pbuh)

2. Some run around in circles and beat themselves bloodly like pagans.

3. Funny claims, such as that Imam Ali Recieved the revelation before the Prophet (pbuh)

4. No love to the Prophet (pbuh)...ONLY to Ahl al Bayt, never even saying (pbuh) when mentioning the Prophet (pbuh)

And many more, cut these things out and people will convert

[Insane]

I was sunni myself and honestly I'll tell you why people are not converting to shia. Because they get such an ugly imagine of shia when they see

1. ALL of you have Ahl Al Bayt (as) on their interestes but not the Prophet (pbuh)

2. Some run around in circles and beat themselves bloodly like pagans.

3. Funny claims, such as that Imam Ali Recieved the revelation before the Prophet (pbuh)

4. No love to the Prophet (pbuh)...ONLY to Ahl al Bayt, never even saying (pbuh) when mentioning the Prophet (pbuh)

And many more, cut these things out and people will convert

Are you sure that you live in Malmö. I live there and every mosque i have been in, every time anyone mantion the prophet (pbuh) . Everyone say Allahume saly ala Muhammed o aly Muhammed. We say it about 3 time or more. And Ahl Al Bayt don't you think that the prophet (pbuh) count as an member or what? If you are not lying then you have to open you mind and seek were the real shia is!!

And i guess you don't know why they do latmyat.

[Ali H Syed]

I was sunni myself and honestly I'll tell you why people are not converting to shia. Because they get such an ugly imagine of shia when they see

1. ALL of you have Ahl Al Bayt (as) on their interestes but not the Prophet (pbuh)

2. Some run around in circles and beat themselves bloodly like pagans.

3. Funny claims, such as that Imam Ali Recieved the revelation before the Prophet (pbuh)

4. No love to the Prophet (pbuh)...ONLY to Ahl al Bayt, never even saying (pbuh) when mentioning the Prophet (pbuh)

And many more, cut these things out and people will convert

ice man all these allegations, are im afraid to tell you, false fairytales that you are told in your little mosques.

IF you had any knowledge, you would know the prophet is the head of the ahlulbayt, your number 3 allegation is completely false only believe by a minority of around 5 % of the shia believers, rofl? we are famous for our salaat, and number 4 again... our beloved prophet is the head of the ahlulbayt, our love for the prophet is complete. and beat themselves? out of love of the rasoouls family, we mourn how your "respected" leaders, slaughtered infants who were the blood of the prophet him self. now educate your self.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Ali H Syed

[Insane]

ice man all these allegations, are im afraid to tell you, false fairytales that you are told in your little mosques.

IF you had any knowledge, you would know the prophet is the head of the ahlulbayt, your number 3 allegation is completely false only believe by a minority of around 5 % of the shia believers, rofl? we are famous for our salaat, and number 4 again... our beloved prophet is the head of the ahlulbayt, our love for the prophet is complete. and beat themselves? out of love of the rasoouls family, we mourn how your "respected" leaders, slaughtered infants who were the blood of the prophet him self. now educate your self.

That right i forgot to write that we say salauat in our prayer to. And I have never seen a shiamuslims who don't salauat when they hear the prophets name (pbuh). And if the persons you love most you love really much. They just die in a horrible way for fighting for the truth. When you hear that don't wan't to beat your self death. I would if my mom die. So it the same thing I can't stand hearing who Imam Hussein (as) died he and the ones who was with him.

[Ali H Syed]

i mean these wild goose statements have no weight what so ever... jus reflects on what these people are being "taught" in mosques around the world today about the shia, pathetic really..

(bismillah)

[Rasul]

I was sunni myself and honestly I'll tell you why people are not converting to shia. Because they get such an ugly imagine of shia when they see

1. ALL of you have Ahl Al Bayt (as) on their interestes but not the Prophet (pbuh)

2. Some run around in circles and beat themselves bloodly like pagans.

3. Funny claims, such as that Imam Ali Recieved the revelation before the Prophet (pbuh)

4. No love to the Prophet (pbuh)...ONLY to Ahl al Bayt, never even saying (pbuh) when mentioning the Prophet (pbuh)

And many more, cut these things out and people will convert

If what you said is true then how comes that you converted to shiism? :lol:

Edited August 6, 2011 by Rasul

[Kamranistan]

I was sunni myself and honestly I'll tell you why people are not converting to shia. Because they get such an ugly imagine of shia when they see

1. ALL of you have Ahl Al Bayt (as) on their interestes but not the Prophet (pbuh)

2. Some run around in circles and beat themselves bloodly like pagans.

3. Funny claims, such as that Imam Ali Recieved the revelation before the Prophet (pbuh)

4. No love to the Prophet (pbuh)...ONLY to Ahl al Bayt, never even saying (pbuh) when mentioning the Prophet (pbuh)

And many more, cut these things out and people will convert

Ice bro, its as we tried explaining to you in the chatroom, what ali replied with is spot on. Dont generalise shi'a what you describe are the astray ones.. Minority by quite some margin.. And honestly i dont knw where you got the prophet (pbuh) thing from.. We salawat as much as we can..

[Jay]

1. ALL of you have Ahl Al Bayt (as) on their interestes but not the Prophet (pbuh)

That's a simple one, brother: whatever the Ahlulbayt(as) do, it's the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). Continuously, we are the only school to remember Ahlulbayt (as) as the true successors, and we must defend and protect their truth. They are the essence of Shi'ism. On the other hand, the Prophet (pbuh) is honored by all and accepted as the seal of the Prophets (pbuh). It's pointless to argue the position of this against Muslims who believe the same thing. Don't get me wrong, the Prophet(pbuh) is greater than the whole of humanity, including his Ahlulbayt (as), but Ahlulbayt(as) deserve to be praised, loved, and remembered. Who else would love them if not their followers and believers?

2. Some run around in circles and beat themselves bloodly like pagans.

Some people blow themselves up to murder others, but most Muslims say this is against Islam. I don't see how what you said represents Shi'ism. The problem here isn't the fact that people do these so-called pagan acts, but the unwillingness for those to understand the reasons behind them. If you loved Imam Hussain (as) half as much as those Shi'is, then you wouldn't criticize them. People show their love in different ways.

3. Funny claims, such as that Imam Ali Recieved the revelation before the Prophet (pbuh)

A Christian is taught throughout his life that Islam is false and you should stay away from it. How can Allah (swt) justly punish him if he didn't have the chance to understand Islam? The fact that these suspicious claims are brought up is enough reason for a man with an open mind to research these claims, and allow himself the honor of knowing the truth. Allah (swt) has given everyone logic and reasoning. If they refuse to use these components of their brain to decide for themselves who's right, they are rejecting the truth. It's not unjust for Allah (swt) to punish the Rejectors, those who knowingly put their fingers in their ears to reject the truth. How can one decide a religion is wrong by mere claims? And if they do, they do not deserve to know the truth, and deserve all the punishments in the afterlife. My brother, the claims such as above are the ones brought upon by the enemies of Ahlulbayt (as). They have no value in the face of the truth, so our enemies can only use it on those who are not the followers of the truth. If you truly think this is the practice of Shi'ism, then I challenge you to bring me your proof. Otherwise, you are only fooling yourself.

4. No love to the Prophet (pbuh)...ONLY to Ahl al Bayt, never even saying (pbuh) when mentioning the Prophet (pbuh)

If you look above, even as I'm typing, I remembered to put salawat after the mention of our beloved Prophet (pbuh), and you will find little who don't. But isn't it Ahlul Sunnah who refuse to send salawat on Ahlulbayt, even when the Prophet(pbuh) specifically ordered them to?

Narrated Ka'b bin Ujra:

It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! We know how to greet you, but how to invoke Allah for you?" The Prophet said, "Say: O Allah! Send your blessings/greetings (Salawat) on Muhammad and his family, the same way as You sent Your blessings/greetings on Abraham's family. You are indeed worthy of all praise, full of glory.'" Sahih al-Bukhari 6.320

I was sunni myself and honestly I'll tell you why people are not converting to shia. Because they get such an ugly imagine of shia when they see

You are wrong brother, these aren't the reasons why people aren't reverting to Shi'ism. These are lies set by the enemies of Ahlulbayt(as) to deceive people from the truth. The truth of the matter is, people aren't finding the truth because they do not want to. There is always enough light for one who wants to see. Those who don't want to see, don't. My brother, do not look at Shi'ism as only Ahlulbayt(as) without the Prophet(pbuh), this is what our enemies want you to think. In truth, we are the perfect balance, and we love and honor our Prophet(pbuh) and his Ahlulbayt(as) more than any sect in Islam. \

Praises to Allah (swt) for your reversion, and may Allah (swt) guide and protect you. And may Allah (swt) guide all those who want to see, and destroy all those who reject the truth and spread lies.

[Ali H Syed]

mashalla! very good reply jay :)

hows your ramahdan going?

(bismillah)

[Jay]

mashalla! very good reply jay :)

hows your ramahdan going?

(bismillah)

Alhamdulillah good. But let's not get off topic.

[Kamranistan]

Alhamdulillah good. But let's not get off topic.

LOL, rejected

[.IceMan.]

Eh, I get it now guys....But that was just what I've all the time :(

[Rocke]

The question from the Sunnis to the Shia weather they actually believed the quran or not actually is not a bit exaggerated, the existence of faslul khitab fi ithbati tahrifi kitabi rabbil arbab to the surface kind of proving it enough, some people might going to tell me that the compiler of that book have been denied and criticized by many great Shia scholars, but ironically the book itself is still available... how amazing is that?

Regarding the Caliphate, I think the bay'ah from Imam Ali to them is enough prove for those who claim to be the follower of Imam Ali and his descendants... but I wonder what kept them people from admitting the legitimacy of the three Caliphate, is it the hatred?

You're so right, even if I was not a muslim myself, and a man asked me about a famous figure, and said who knows him best, my instant reply would be his family, ie. his household; like uhm... his wife(s), those who lived with that famous figure in his house and saw his daily activities, as for the second group then it would be his friends who interacted with him outside the house, and the closest of friends would be those who have family ties with him.

I guess this enough to answer the question.

[Ali H Syed]

Eh, I get it now guys....But that was just what I've all the time :(

iceman, if you ever wanna ask about the faith, ask my cuzon kamran :) he has more knowledge than me, but please dont hesitate to ask :)

(bismillah)

[radisson]

[EDITED]

Member banned.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Basim Ali

[ana_ma3a_al_haq]

It depens on a couple of things .... as the culture you are born with

Culture :

You are born and always told that you have to praise all the sahaba.And even if they do something wrong they are sahaba so you should not mention or think to much about it. They go to the Mosques and they hear only the good stories I don't think a Imaam will tell people bad stories anyways. As the biggest problem is not this but that they speak without knowlegde about ahlul bayt they don't see there maqama.

While we understand ahlul sunna very well. The problem is when you don't understand something in life and you get new information about it you assume it's all true this is very logical. I see that many people are just ignoring the facts more they tell you that your source is unreliable with whatever you come they will tell you the same. One other thing is that one of the basic rules is that a hadith must be strong before it's told but they try to mock us with whatever they can find. I mean the hadith must be strong first and told to be good usefull and by imams. Another thing is that they claim that we do not use bukhari and muslim while we do.

my advice to ahlul sunna is to always explore never assume something before it's sure !

[Abbas.]

I would just like to pose a question, why are sunnis etc so intent on backing the caliphate?

Salams

I personally don't like the tone of such questions. If I were you, I'd phrase it as, "Why is Caliphate defended by Sunni School of thought?" The reason being that we want to avoid having our question being perceived as a personal attack on individuals (sunni muslims); thus, reflective of poor akhlaq.

But if you seriously intend to pose this question to all sunnis, the answer is quite simple really. They back the Caliphate for the same reasons why majority of shias back the Imamat. That is, they believe in what is taught to them since childhood. And of course, other reasons why we all (being humans) stick to our flawed ideas is cz we're influenced by propagandas against one another, we have sheer ignorance and stubbornness to understand one another's perspective and lastly, activities of groups from within both (or all) sides creates wrong image. We start judging one another, hatred becomes inevitable in certain communities of both (or all) sects and everyone thinks of the other to be blind when we are all blindfolded.

Let me ask you a question. Did you ever make a serious effort of getting in touch with knowledgeable sunni scholars (or brothers) in order to understand their perspective on caliphate? Did you ever observe how an average sincere sunni muslim in your society/country tends to follow Islamic code? I'd be impressed if you have. But i know that it is not true for an average shia (or a sunni for that matter). I'll share my personal example to illustrate my point. My experience of living with them in my country(ies) has taught me that the sincere amongst them do worship Allah and love our Prophet (just like we do). Unfortunately, majority of them may not have clue that Ayesha waged a war against Imam Ali or that Abu Bakr & co played politics in Saqifah (or they tend to disagree with these historical references). In most cases, all they know is that the companions and the wives of the Prophet P.b.u.H were the source of guidance after Him. So they respect everyone and keep up with the wajibaats (obligations) and the practical programs of Islam.

Now I (and other shias like me) being comparatively knowledgeable than an average sunni in Islamic history backed by unbiased references (due to great efforts of our shia scholars over the past centuries and due to great emphasis on Islamic history in shia sect) regarding what actually happened back then, and how it affects the entire Islamic ideology/identity, still don't have any moral grounds to rub it in their face and start criticizing them for things which they have no clue of. Rather, as a student and a scholar of Islam, our duty is to be responsible and understanding towards people and their level of knowledge of Islamic history.

Fi-Amanillah

[Ali H Syed]

salam, yeh i just noticed, i had no intention to make it sound that way, my apologies.

yeh that is true, but when figures from that era, including some non muslims, have written that those so called " role models" that they back, where tyranical, it should atleast make them consider who they are following surely? as in (astaghforallah) if there was many sources saying that ahlulbayt where bad muslims ( once again astaghforallah), i would consider through research if who i am walking the path of, is it the correct one.

No i have not spoken to any knowledgeable sunni scholars, due to lack of oppertunity, but on the average sunni person, i am in a town full of them, my friends, my parents friends are all your average so called sunnis. so i asked out of experiance which i have seen throughout my life on their views.

and your last point was very good, once again it was just to get an idea on their ideology, not to mock any one, thankyou for the feedback brother :)

(bismillah)

[Aabiss_Shakari]

[EDITED]

Member banned.

Dair Ayad Darust Ayad :)

[Muntaqim Force]

Salaam and Ramadan Karim

I read this thread and very brief and simple answers are mentioned regarding one of the main debacle of Islam. Correction of the question by keeping Aklaqiyat (manners) is very nice and is very important as well.

Brother, sunni defense of these corrupts Caliphs and Rulers is not similar to Shia defense of Imam'at. If Abu Bakr was not alive at the time of Saqeefa, they would have taken Umar as their first Caliph. Believe me if Abu Jahal had lived and converted to Islam, even he would have been their Caliph one day. It is the Kingdom and rule of anti Ahle Bait that they defend and love and not the person. Defending Yazid is another example of this.

Unlike us, we believe there is no other than Imam Ali a.s. There is no other than Imam Hussain a.s, we believe in the hidden Imam a.j and take no one present in his place and all of them are appointed by Allah. We believe that if there ws no Muhammad o Ali then no world.

Therefore, it is the govt. and rule of Satan which they defend and adhere to. You know why i called it govt. and rule of satan because hating Bani Hashim and questioning their authorities was common among pagan Arabs. These pagans who converted to Islam at the time of victory of Makkah always stood against Banu Hashim. Banu Hashim gave them a Prophet s.a.w of Allah, who taught them to be equal among mankind, be gentle, be nice and treat every one equally and this was very disturbing to their racist and ruling nature. It was difficult for them to swallow it. Therefore firstly Abu Bakr played a racist role by saying Muhajirs are better than Ansars and opened the door of that pagan rules of community of pre Islamic era. Then Muawiyah name his son Yazid and then the start of Umayyad era followed by Abbasids. The followers of such rulers who hated banu Hashim and then even among Banu Hashim some hated banu Fatima a.s for the sake of their rule, the devil's rule of kingdom.

The product of all such followers of such tyrant rulers today you see as sunnis. It is logical for them to save the position of their kings other than this they have no option. You cannot say, i love the killer and the one who is killed both, therefore they chose to defend the killers and the rule of devil, no matter who is rulling they do not care as far as someone is ruling and keeping devil's mission alive. Either Abu Bakr is sitting on throne or Yazid, Umar bin Abdul Aziz or Mutasim, they do not care.

jazakAllah

Edited August 11, 2011 by Muntaqim Force