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Jihad-Fadak

@ Baradar_jackson

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Before he answers your questions.... I am going to ask you this: what is wrong with imprisoning scholars? If a scholar commits crimes why he should escape justice? Please provide evidence from Quran and hadith to support your point if you argue that scholars should not be questioned or imprisoned!

And what is this guy in (1st youtube clip) is saying? English plz!

Edited by Noah-

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(bismillah)

(salam)

That's a strange scrolling youtube address on the video. he is calling himself ameeralmomineen? :unsure: If you go to youtube you will see the name on that video and more info in the description and the comments. This is sickening. Nobody is supposed to talk bad about others. This proves how deviated this ياسر الحبيب is. His hatred for the sahaba of the Prophet SA (which I don't blame him for, we all know who I'm talking about) has extended to the great great grandson of the Prophet SA, Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei HA. Astaghfirullah!

Please watch the first 8 minutes of this video. The sheikh talks about not being enemies of one another, not against Sunnis or against other Shias.

Edited by Hameedeh

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His hatred for the sahaba of the Prophet SA

Sis, do not mix up things... nobody hates sahaba of prophet... the ones that Shias question them are not considered true sahaba according to our beliefs. And I don't think there is any especial status for those who are (the great great grandsons or great great granddaughters of the Prophet) in Sharia... An Arab is no better than an ajam and a non-Arab is no better than an Arab, but what matters is their faith and Allah accept those who are true followers of ISLAM.

But, yea, this guy is responsible for his own words and hatreds he tries to spread... Lets discuss what he wants and what are his message and objections!

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Sis, do not mix up things... nobody hates sahaba of prophet... the ones that Shias question them are not considered true sahaba according to our beliefs. And I don't think there is any especial status for those who are (the great great grandsons or great great granddaughters of the Prophet) in Sharia... An Arab is no better than an ajam and a non-Arab is no better than an Arab, but what matters is their faith and Allah accept those who are true followers of ISLAM.

But, yea, this guy is responsible for his own words and hatreds he tries to spread... Lets discuss what he wants and what are his message and objections!

(bismillah)

(salam)

Brother, I'm sure you are more knowledgeable than me. What I was trying to say is that his hatred of those people who were alive during the time of the Prophet SA has become part of his personality. There is no room left for love in this guy, it's all hate, for many of our Scholars and Righteous Ulema, including Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei HA. Since he is my marja and my leader, I am outraged by this hateful video.

Let me just mention that Ayatollah Bahjat RA spent every extra moment of his life reading dhikr to Allah SWT with his tasbeeh, saying

Çááåã Õá Úáی ãÍãÏ æ Âá ãÍãÏ æ ÚÌá ÝÑÌåã Allahuma Salee Alaa Muhammad Wa Aalee Muhammad Wa Ajil Farajahum. He wasn't cursing people and making videos to curse people. If a person spends his/her life cursing people, there will be no time left for him/her to be making dhikr of Allah, remembering the Holy Ahlul Bayt AS, or making du'aa for our Scholars and Righteous Ulema.

Even though I don't know all the words in the Arabic video, I can tell I don't like it because it is hateful. Along with his wants, his message and his objections, I want to know what is that book Jihad-Fadak has in his avatar and who wrote it? I am beginning to think that the only reason he came to ShiaChat is to cause discord between the members. He may be a recently banned member who has come back with vengeance.

Edited by Hameedeh

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Before he answers your questions.... I am going to ask you this: what is wrong with imprisoning scholars? If a scholar commits crimes why he should escape justice? Please provide evidence from Quran and hadith to support your point if you argue that scholars should not be questioned or imprisoned!

And what is this guy in (1st youtube clip) is saying? English plz!

You are saying that the scholars in Iranian jails and under house arrest have committed crimes and thus deserved to be punished. Whereas I agree that scholars and laypeople should be equal in the eyes of the law, the reason some scholars are rotting in jails and house arrest is clear. They have committed the "crime" of disagreeing with the official narrative and questioning the credentials and policies of the dear leader.

This is really very simple.

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You are saying that the scholars in Iranian jails and under house arrest have committed crimes and thus deserved to be punished.

Where did I say that? I simply asked a question, it is like someone comes here and questions that, how come some Blacks are in jail in the UK? I would respond by asking such a person that why not? He specifically questioned the presence of 'scholars' in prisons.

Going to details of the crimes and WHY they are in jail, it is totally nonsense and unreal to come here and claim they are ALL innocent and because "I think" they spoke out against the officials and blaa bla blaa, that is why they are in prisons. Yes, you think they are ALL innocent because YOU SEE Iranian government as a criminal government and thus anything it does as illegal.

On the other hand, I might see the governments for example, of UK or France as criminal governments but I would never claim that all those serving in those countries prisons are innocent.. There might be criminals, there might be cases of discrimination against a few or there might be cases of a few innocent people serving in prisons because of corrupt officials. But, where is my evidence to make a straight forward statement and claim they are all innocent or criminals? Am I in such a position? Are you? A few propaganda agencies who are hostile and enemies to Iranian government make such claims of all in Iranian prisons are human rights activists or scholars who disagree with current officials is your only source of BS to present here and base your accusations.

Now I am asking you and the poster of this thread:

What are your evidences that all those so called scholars serving in prisons are innocent?

Sadly, one person's terrorist is another person's hero. And vice verse.

This is not the case, read my last points to Marbles above. It is how just we are and how unjust some are... It is about where should we speak the truth and where to unmask the criminals even if its our own. Why you or anyone else never claimed that all 2 million prisoners in the US prisons are innocent? They are either human rights activists or scholars! Because we are not as ignorant and biased as some are.

Sis Hameedeh, it is all good... I thought you meant something else!!!

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You are saying that the scholars in Iranian jails and under house arrest have committed crimes and thus deserved to be punished. Whereas I agree that scholars and laypeople should be equal in the eyes of the law, the reason some scholars are rotting in jails and house arrest is clear. They have committed the "crime" of disagreeing with the official narrative and questioning the credentials and policies of the dear leader.

This is really very simple.

They have committed the "crime" of disagreeing with the official narrative and questioning the credentials and policies of the dear leader.

Nope, try again.

Hint: Spreading lies, promoting havoc and anarchy with telling people to go to the streets illegally. I'm interested in knowing your sources for such claims. I'm happy to take links, books, magazines.

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Where did I say that? I simply asked a question, it is like someone comes here and questions that, how come some Blacks are in jail in the UK? I would respond by asking such a person that why not? He specifically questioned the presence of 'scholars' in prisons.

Going to details of the crimes and WHY they are in jail, it is totally nonsense and unreal to come here and claim they are ALL innocent and because "I think" they spoke out against the officials and blaa bla blaa, that is why they are in prisons. Yes, you think they are ALL innocent because YOU SEE Iranian government as a criminal government and thus anything it does as illegal.

On the other hand, I might see the governments for example, of UK or France as criminal governments but I would never claim that all those serving in those countries prisons are innocent.. There might be criminals, there might be cases of discrimination against a few or there might be cases of a few innocent people serving in prisons because of corrupt officials. But, where is my evidence to make a straight forward statement and claim they are all innocent or criminals? Am I in such a position? Are you? A few propaganda agencies who are hostile and enemies to Iranian government make such claims of all in Iranian prisons are human rights activists or scholars who disagree with current officials is your only source of BS to present here and base your accusations.

Now I am asking you and the poster of this thread:

What are your evidences that all those so called scholars serving in prisons are innocent?

This is not the case, read my last points to Marbles above. It is how just we are and how unjust some are... It is about where should we speak the truth and where to unmask the criminals even if its our own. Why you or anyone else never claimed that all 2 million prisoners in the US prisons are innocent? They are either human rights activists or scholars! Because we are not as ignorant and biased as some are.

Sis Hameedeh, it is all good... I thought you meant something else!!!

Woah hold your horses mate! :!!!:

Let me put it in bullet style:

1) I don't believe Iranian government is a "criminal" government nor do I see everything it does as illegal.

2) I didn't claim that ALL scholar-prisoners in Iranian jails are innocent.

3) I agreed to your view that scholars shouldn't be treated as elite class and thus as exempt from law if they commit crimes.

4) I made a general statement about famous scholars who were jailed and/or put under house arrest not because they committed actual crimes but because of their political activism and opposition to the government (which our dear sayed brother "repenter" dubs "spreading lies and promoting havoc").

Really not that hard to comprehend, Noah-?

Nope, try again.

Hint: Spreading lies, promoting havoc and anarchy with telling people to go to the streets illegally. I'm interested in knowing your sources for such claims. I'm happy to take links, books, magazines.

Please see above.

Edited by Marbles

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4) I made a general statement about famous scholars who were jailed and/or put under house arrest not because they committed actual crimes but because of their political activism and opposition to the government (which our dear sayed brother "repenter" dubs "spreading lies and promoting havoc").

Really not that hard to comprehend, Noah-?

In this reply you have changed your tone and the direction of your arguments ;) :D

Anyhow, it is not much of a general statement you have made. You actually issued a statement in previous reply as to say you had some kind of evidence or statistic in hand. If I were to ask you to provide the the names of a few scholars who "are rotting in jail" because "of disagreeing with....... the dear leader" I have no doubts that you would have gone to 'google' to copy the names of so called scholars from the sources of those who oppose Islam all together and can do anything to reject an 'Islamic government' even to use Islamic scholars for their own purposes and missions.

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They have committed the "crime" of disagreeing with the official narrative and questioning the credentials and policies of the dear leader.

This is really very simple.

Bro, do you honestly, I mean sincerely believe these scholars are kept under house arrest simply because they have a different opinion than rahbar?

I mean, as in: "Rahbar, I think we should possibly revise so and so law, maybe review certain fatwa" etc. "What!? How dare you! Put him in house arrest, I want him under constant surveillance!"

There is a lot more deviousness than that.

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In this reply you have changed your tone and the direction of your arguments ;) :D

Show me how I changed the direction of my argument.

I have been saying the same thing for a long time. You have long enough acquaintance with my views on this issue. I haven't said anything new.

Anyhow, it is not much of a general statement you have made. You actually issued a statement in previous reply as to say you had some kind of evidence or statistic in hand. If I were to ask you to provide the the names of a few scholars who "are rotting in jail" because "of disagreeing with....... the dear leader" I have no doubts that you would have gone to 'google' to copy the names of so called scholars from the sources of those who oppose Islam all together and can do anything to reject an 'Islamic government' even to use Islamic scholars for their own purposes and missions.

I don't need the sources of those who oppose Islam altogether to know about the scholars who have been mistreated. Nor do I need to google their names. Some of them are famous. For a potent example, Ayatullah Montazeri's case is well known. We have his memoir detailing his association and criticism of the government. He was punished with long-term house arrest for his daring stance. Another example of Ayatullah Yasubedin Rastegar who rotted in jail numerous times. Both of these are recognised marjas. There are other examples.

Because the government in Iran thinks they are bad and should be punished doesn't make them bad and worthy of punishment. But you think the exact opposite.

Bro, do you honestly, I mean sincerely believe these scholars are kept under house arrest simply because they have a different opinion than rahbar?

I mean, as in: "Rahbar, I think we should possibly revise so and so law, maybe review certain fatwa" etc. "What!? How dare you! Put him in house arrest, I want him under constant surveillance!"

There is a lot more deviousness than that.

No brother, it is not as simple as you make it out. There are some rather sensitive matters about which the government led by WF doesn't tolerate political activism or dissent. Whether they be laypeople, print media or scholars, anyone who questions those closely guarded policies is punished accordingly. There is no space for sections of the society which do not agree with government policies to voice their opinion, and if they do, they have to suffer the consequences.

I don't believe people and scholars are punished merely for disagreeing with the WF's particular fatwa or policy... such as whether or not Sabians are considered People of the Book. I don't think Ayatullah Khamenei would order house arrest for a marja who doesn't share this view of his. But if one is to deliver a speech criticising the great powers assigned to the leader without much accountability, then, be sure, brother, he will at once be put in gaol. For this reason, I condemn the Iranian establishment for turning Iran into a police state.

Edited by Marbles

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You people are unbelievable...

Seriously LOL the fact that Shirazis exist in Iran is proof they have the freedom to express themselves. The Irani government allows their hawza, allows them to operate freely, allows them to spread their filthy disease of an ideology and yet they still come forward and say they are oppressed. They make lies about Muhammad Ridha Shirazi being a "shaheed" (when even non-muslim critics of Iran have stated that this is obviously not the case). They curse and slander and abuse and yet they are still given the freedom to continue in their perversions.

If Khamenei was a real dictator would he EVER allow such things? If Khamenei was as Mujtaba Shirazi [Edited] said "saddam khamenei" or "shaytan khamenei" then he would do what Saddam did and kill them all without hesitation. You ungrateful people have some serioues issues, when your religion has become cursing and swearing like yasser habib and mujtaba shirazi calling people sons of [Edited Out]s, etc. You won't even accept our Sunni brothers and insult them and call them "batris" and use all kinds of filthy words against them. Are you guys really following the Sunnah of Rasool Allah (pbuh) when you make takfir on the majority of the Muslims?

Wallllllllah I pray for the hastening of Imam Mahdi (as) and let's see what will happen. If the Imam will side with those who are preparing for his return by strengthening the Islamic world and fighting our enemies; or will he side with those who sit at home and swear and curse and cause fitna and hate between human beings

Edited by inshaAllah
Sending lanat on scholars is not allowed on this forum. Member warned.

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You people are unbelievable...

Seriously LOL the fact that Shirazis exist in Iran is proof they have the freedom to express themselves.

Lool the argument

Seriously LOL the fact that shia exist in Saudi Arabia is proof they have the freedom to express themselves.....^^

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Lool the argument

Seriously LOL the fact that shia exist in Saudi Arabia is proof they have the freedom to express themselves.....^^

LOL you comparing the shirazis in Iran to the oppressed Shias in Saudi Arabia is sickening...

On one hand we have genuine lovers and followers of Ahlulbayt (as) who are denied access to education, stripped of rights, find it difficult to find work, are not allowed to practice their religion, are not allowed to print and distribute books, cannot do dawa, cannot practice their rituals, etc.

On the other hand you have a group who have the freedom to do everything and even are allowed to spread their dangerous ideology on the governments expense...

The fact that you would even compare the two shows that you and your ilk care nothing for the real suffering of Muslims around the world

We cant we all just get along

Because Good cannot get along with Evil. Wallah there are Muslim brothers who call themselves Sunni who are closer to the truth than some misguided souls who claim to be shias.

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Seriously LOL the fact that Shirazis exist in Iran is proof they have the freedom to express themselves. The Irani government allows their hawza, allows them to operate freely, allows them to spread their filthy disease of an ideology and yet they still come forward and say they are oppressed. They make lies about Muhammad Ridha Shirazi being a "shaheed" (when even non-muslim critics of Iran have stated that this is obviously not the case). They curse and slander and abuse and yet they are still given the freedom to continue in their perversions.

They have the freedom to express themselves to some extent. I don't wholly agree with the way Syed Mujtaba Shirazi and Sheikh Yassir Habib approach certain issues.

If Khamenei was a real dictator would he EVER allow such things? If Khamenei was as Mujtaba Shirazi [Edited] said "saddam khamenei" or "shaytan khamenei" then he would do what Saddam did and kill them all without hesitation. You ungrateful people have some serioues issues, when your religion has become cursing and swearing like yasser habib and mujtaba shirazi calling people sons of [Edited Out]s, etc. You won't even accept our Sunni brothers and insult them and call them "batris" and use all kinds of filthy words against them. Are you guys really following the Sunnah of Rasool Allah (pbuh) when you make takfir on the majority of the Muslims?

Well Mujtaba Shirazi isn't in Iran hence he can't kill him...also his brother doesn't directly criticise the government or bring up any names...

Wallllllllah I pray for the hastening of Imam Mahdi (as) and let's see what will happen. If the Imam will side with those who are preparing for his return by strengthening the Islamic world and fighting our enemies; or will he side with those who sit at home and swear and curse and cause fitna and hate between human beings

Once things for certain, he won't side with oppressors and those who have the blood of innocent people on their hands.

To the OP - Yes many innocent people and scholars have been imprisoned. Whoever states otherwise is delusional. I personally know many people who have been imprisoned...some of them were treated good, others weren't. Not only does Khamenei allow such a thing to take place, he also allows capital punishment to take place in Iran. If you study Islamic Law and read hadiths you would know that you can't implement these during the absence of an infallible...

Edited by Hawraa29

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To the OP - Yes many innocent people and scholars have been imprisoned. Whoever states otherwise is delusional. I personally know many people who have been imprisoned...some of them were treated good, others weren't. Not only does Khamenei allow such a thing to take place, he also allows capital punishment to take place in Iran. If you study Islamic Law and read hadiths you would know that you can't implement these during the absence of an infallible...

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I read that you can't implement these during the time of ghayba...I don't have the hadith on me but read this: The Rights of Prisoners according to Islamic Teachings

Once we cease to implement the law we are really going backwards. There are some crimes which have certain punishments laid down. For example; murder = execution. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't implement these laws in ghaybah; if we are trying to hasten the return of the Imam we need to lay the foundations for his state and this includes the enforcement of Islamic laws/punishments. Am I crazy for having to defend a marja3 when he calls for the implementation of an Islamic law?

íÇ ÃíåÇ ÇáÐíä ÂãäæÇ ßÊÈ Úáíßã ÇáÞÕÇÕ Ýí ÇáÞÊáì

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Once we cease to implement the law we are really going backwards. There are some crimes which have certain punishments laid down. For example; murder = execution. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't implement these laws in ghaybah; if we are trying to hasten the return of the Imam we need to lay the foundations for his state and this includes the enforcement of Islamic laws/punishments. Am I crazy for having to defend a marja3 when he calls for the implementation of an Islamic law?

يا أيها الذين آمنوا كتب عليكم القصاص في القتلى

Please read the link of the book I posted, then make your judgement...

Is it just me or do all these Yassir Habib worshipers sound like emotional sixteen year olds?

I think you're mistaken. If anything it's Khamenei 'worshipers'...

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Habib's confrontational approach I think is problematic in achieving Sunni-Shiite unity.

If it's not him, then Sunnis would find something/someone else to pick on. As long as he brings proof for his claims then it's fine. If we made Shias and Sunnis seem the same then they wouldn't bother searching for the truth. We can co exist with Sunnis, not compromise our beliefs. That's as far as 'unity' goes with them...

EDIT: Lets achieve Shia-Shia unity before anything else!

Edited by Hawraa29

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In those regards I will agree with you Hawraa.

But the only thing he should be cautious about is throwing those anti-Omar, Aisha, etc. celebration days.

The more fanatical Sunnis like those Wahabis, will hear about them and subsequently use these as excuses to deliberately kill more Shiites, unfortunately.

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Please read the link of the book I posted, then make your judgement...

I have read the book by Muhammad Shirazi...

Generally it talks about prisoners and jail and their rights, which is fair enough except for some very obvious parts which I cannot agree with and some parts which are simply unfeasible in a modern society (I am referring to some of the parts in the chapter regarding the rights of a prisoner).

He talks about the criteria for enabling the implementation of Islamic punishment, which he sums up as:

• Correctness and validity of the ruling government,

• Circumstances of the offender and the offence,

• Validity of the offence under Islamic law

Without going into too much detail, this in no way supports your argument that people shouldn't be executed. As far as I read in his book he didn't actually mention anything regarding the punishment for murder; although there is no debate that murder is punishable by death. To be honest I found the book at times to be quite Utopian in it's outlook in that we have all this time/money/energy to spend "rehabilitating" prisoners even though they have committed grievous crimes; for which the punishments are clearly laid down in the Quran.

He also likes to reference himself a lot in his footnotes LOL

If it's not him, then Sunnis would find something/someone else to pick on. As long as he brings proof for his claims then it's fine. If we made Shias and Sunnis seem the same then they wouldn't bother searching for the truth. We can co exist with Sunnis, not compromise our beliefs. That's as far as 'unity' goes with them...

EDIT: Lets achieve Shia-Shia unity before anything else!

That's no excuse.

Sunni and Shia Muslim cannot achieve "religious" unity in the sense that neither side as a whole is willing to compromise their beliefs. We don't need to do this because after 1400 years of debating neither side has gained ground and even attempting it is an exercise in futility.

What we can and should achieve is political unity. Look for example at the Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran unity. These three groups have united around a common Islamic cause - specifically being the liberation of Palestine. This is an important issue for all Muslims and it is our duty to put aside petty differences and unite. Even though Hamas is a primarily Sunni organisation and Iran/Hezbollah are Shia, they can work together perfectly fine without having to antagonise one another.

Sitting around and abusing people and swearing and cursing is simply a stupid thing to do and achieves absolutely nothing. Yasser Habib or Mujtaba Shirazi coming on tv and calling people sons of [Edited Out]s and accusing the Prophets wife of adultery (astaghfirullah) is not behaviour fitting any decent human being, let alone somewhere who deems themselves fit to don the mantle of the prophet and call themselves a man of Islam...

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