The Clay Stone Shia's Use To Pray

[Fereshteh _k_b]

I just wanted to know if anyone knows of any surah, that says we Muslims should use something natural to put our foreheads on. If u are able to quote me something, and explain it, please also give me the name of the surah and were about I can find it in the Quran. Thanks

[Shia_Debater]

(bismillah)

(salam)

there isnt anything mentioned in the Qur'an on what to prostrate on as far as I know however there are many things not said in the Qur'an which are elaborated in hadiths such as how to pray, how to fast etc..

The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) said, "The earth has been appointed as a pure place of prostration (Sajdah)." The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) considered performing of Sajdah on other things besides earth to be detestable.

It was seen of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) that his forehead and nose was smeared in mud due to Sajdah.He did not permit his companions to do Sajdah on anything else, as mentioned in some traditions. When these people complained that the sand of the Mosque was hot he told them to keep it in their hands to cool it and then do Sajdah on it.If it had been allowed to do Sajdah on other things they would never have asked, and the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) also would have advised them to do Sajdah on carpet or durry etc.

(Musnad Ahmad Vol. 1, Pg. 388)

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

I saw Allah’s Apostle prostrating on mud and water and saw the mark of mud on his forehead.

(Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Hadith 798)

Carpets were introduced into the mosque of the prophet 300 years after hes death .. tell me which is his sunnah? What he prostrated on when he was alive or Something that was introduced 300 years after hes death?

Also the philosophy of the 2 Sajdah are the we came from clay and that we are returning to clay .. what is better to prostrate on than clay?

InshaAllah I was of help if you have any other questions dont hesitate to ask :)

(wasalam)

Same answer on this thread

Edited August 3, 2011 by Shia_Debater

[Rocke]

I prefer not to use Sajdah, but don't mind praying on it.

From Sahih Bukhari

From Sahih Muslim

Edited August 3, 2011 by Rocke

[AvioNova]

Sahih Bukhari :

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 222:

Narrated Anas:

The Prophet was the best of all the people in character. I had a brother called Abu 'Umar, who, I think, had been newly weaned. Whenever he (that child) was brought to the Prophet the Prophet used to say, "O Abu 'Umar! What did Al-Nughair (nightingale) (do)?" It was a nightingale with which he used to play. Sometimes the time of the Prayer became due while he (the Prophet) was in our house. He would order that the carpet underneath him be swept and sprayed with water, and then he would stand up (for the prayer) and we would line up behind him, and he would lead us in prayer.

The Companions of the Prophet (saw) when they used to offer salah during the day and when the sun's heat was intense, they would use a rug/carpet to pray on so that their faces are not burned by scorching sand. It does not matter what kind of flooring you pray on, so long it is pure, be it a carpet, a rug, mud, grass and etc. It does not invalidiate anyone's Salah and there is nothing called a condition to pray on a particular material. It is as simple as that.

Edited August 3, 2011 by AvioNova

[Fereshteh _k_b]

(bismillah)

(salam)

there isnt anything mentioned in the Qur'an on what to prostrate on as far as I know however there are many things not said in the Qur'an which are elaborated in hadiths such as how to pray, how to fast etc..

The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) said, "The earth has been appointed as a pure place of prostration (Sajdah)." The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) considered performing of Sajdah on other things besides earth to be detestable.

It was seen of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) that his forehead and nose was smeared in mud due to Sajdah.He did not permit his companions to do Sajdah on anything else, as mentioned in some traditions. When these people complained that the sand of the Mosque was hot he told them to keep it in their hands to cool it and then do Sajdah on it.If it had been allowed to do Sajdah on other things they would never have asked, and the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) also would have advised them to do Sajdah on carpet or durry etc.

(Musnad Ahmad Vol. 1, Pg. 388)

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

I saw Allah’s Apostle prostrating on mud and water and saw the mark of mud on his forehead.

(Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Hadith 798)

Carpets were introduced into the mosque of the prophet 300 years after hes death .. tell me which is his sunnah? What he prostrated on when he was alive or Something that was introduced 300 years after hes death?

Also the philosophy of the 2 Sajdah are the we came from clay and that we are returning to clay .. what is better to prostrate on than clay?

InshaAllah I was of help if you have any other questions dont hesitate to ask :)

(wasalam)

Same answer on this thread

Thanks that was helpful, :)

ALSO where is one able to find the hadith book that you've mentioned, "Sahih Bukhari" ?

and what is the 'Musnad Ahmad Vol. 1, Pg. 388' ?

and lastly, i know, to understand more about islam we can read the Quran, I have also later understood we have books called Hadiths to help us more,

NOW is there any other literature from the PROPHETS TIME, that can help us understand more about Islam???

Sorry if this seems like a silly question, (but one doesnt know until one asks lol)

Thanks

[Sheraz]

Thanks that was helpful, :)

ALSO where is one able to find the hadith book that you've mentioned, "Sahih Bukhari" ?

and what is the 'Musnad Ahmad Vol. 1, Pg. 388' ?

and lastly, i know, to understand more about islam we can read the Quran, I have also later understood we have books called Hadiths to help us more,

NOW is there any other literature from the PROPHETS TIME, that can help us understand more about Islam???

Sorry if this seems like a silly question, (but one doesnt know until one asks lol)

Thanks

http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/

Musnad Ahmad is a book similiar to the Sahih bhukari collection of hadith.

[Fereshteh _k_b]

http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/

Musnad Ahmad is a book similiar to the Sahih bhukari collection of hadith.

Thank you very much, that is a brilliant website. It has soo much information on so many different topics :) Thanks

[a believer]

Thank you very much, that is a brilliant website. It has soo much information on so many different topics :) Thanks

(bismillah)

(salam)

The link you saw was to a Sunni website.

You might want to visit www.*******.org to learn more about our faith.

[Fereshteh _k_b]

(bismillah)

(salam)

The link you saw was to a Sunni website.

You might want to visit www.*******.org to learn more about our faith.

Oh right, i see, thanks for correcting things, I will have a look at this website you have given me

But are Ithnā‘ashariyyah shia people?

[a believer]

Oh right, i see, thanks for correcting things, I will have a look at this website you have given me

But are Ithnā‘ashariyyah shia people?

Yes they are.

Ithnā‘ashariyyah = Twelvers which refers to the 12 Imams from the lineage of the Prophet (pbuh).

[Abbas]

Sahih Bukhari :

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 222:

Narrated Anas:

The Prophet was the best of all the people in character. I had a brother called Abu 'Umar, who, I think, had been newly weaned. Whenever he (that child) was brought to the Prophet the Prophet used to say, "O Abu 'Umar! What did Al-Nughair (nightingale) (do)?" It was a nightingale with which he used to play. Sometimes the time of the Prayer became due while he (the Prophet) was in our house. He would order that the carpet underneath him be swept and sprayed with water, and then he would stand up (for the prayer) and we would line up behind him, and he would lead us in prayer.

The Companions of the Prophet (saw) when they used to offer salah during the day and when the sun's heat was intense, they would use a rug/carpet to pray on so that their faces are not burned by scorching sand. It does not matter what kind of flooring you pray on, so long it is pure, be it a carpet, a rug, mud, grass and etc. It does not invalidiate anyone's Salah and there is nothing called a condition to pray on a particular material. It is as simple as that.

Firstly, “Carpet” is a misleading translation, because Farash is used for any kind of flooring that is laid out underneath.

Refer to Sunan Abi Dawud: Anas narrated that the Prophet used to visit Umm Saleem (i.e. Anas’ mother), and prayer time sometimes arrived, and he prayed for us on a flooring [i.e. led us in prayer], and it [the flooring] was a Haseer which we sprayed with water.

This narration and many others like it brings the context together. From this we know that the "carpet" was a Haseer which is a mat made of woven palm leaves, and is amongst those things on which sujood is permissible.

Secondly, only in exceptional circumstances when the heat of the earth was too unbearable did the Companions prostrate on their clothing, and we do find such narrations in Sunni books. Such as:

Anas ibn Malik narrated: We used to pray with the Prophet and one of us would place the end of his clothes on the place of prostration due to the intensity of the heat. (Bukhari, Muslim, Ibn Majah etc)

And referring to this narration Imam Shawkani stated: “The narration proves the permissibility of prostrating on clothes in order to avoid the heat of the earth; therein is an indication that touching the earth directly when prostrating is the original rule, due to the laying out of the clothes [for prostration] is conditioned on lack of ability [to prostrate on the earth].” (Nail ul-Awtar, 2:268)

Therefore, this is not the norm, and not the original rule. One can even eat pig’s meat in exceptional extenuating circumstances.

The original rule is what is given in the mass of narrations in the Sihah Sittah, such as this one:

Jabir ibn Abdillah narrated: We used to pray the Zuhr prayer with the Messenger of Allah [s[, and I would take a fistful of small pebbles in my hand to cool and I would transfer it to the other hand; then when I prostrated, I placed it for my forehead. (Nisai, Ahmad, Abu Dawud, Mustadrak, Bayhaqi, etc)

Bayhaqi commented on this narration: “If prostration was allowed on clothes attached to him, that would have been easier than cooling the small pebbles in the hand and placing it for prostrating upon it.”

Another narration:

Khabbab ibn Al-Arth narrated: We complained to the Messenger of Allah about the intensity of the sun-baked earth on our foreheads and our hands, and he did not alleviate the complaints. (Muslim, Ibn Majah, Nisai etc)

The truth is that not even one narration is found in the main sources of Sunni traditions that indicate the permissibility of prostrating on anything except earth or that which grows from the earth which isn’t eaten or worn.

So where the fatwas of allowing sujood on anything that doesn’t move come from, I don’t know, but its not the Sunnah or the Quran.

[14infallibles]

(salam)

Why in the world are we quoting Sunni hadiths to a Shia as a proof to pray on turbah???????????? Sahih Bukhari isnt a Shia book and thus we dont get our Islamic laws from it. I am quite disappointed as I was expecting hadiths from say al-Kafi or something............

[ghaffari]

Why Don't you read Nahjol Balagha?The fantastic , lovely collection of letters , lectures and hekmats of Imam Ali AlayhiSSalam?

you'll ADORE it.

it opens a real and clear-cut window in front of your eyes about Islam and Holy Quran

[Sheraz]

(salam)

Why in the world are we quoting Sunni hadiths to a Shia as a proof to pray on turbah???????????? Sahih Bukhari isnt a Shia book and thus we dont get our Islamic laws from it. I am quite disappointed as I was expecting hadiths from say al-Kafi or something............

I honestly thought the OP was a Sunni.

the Shi'ah prefer to prostrate on the earth of Karbala because of the importance given to it by the Prophet (s) and the Imams from his Family (Ahl al-Bayt). After the martyrdom of Imam Husayn عليه السلام, his son Imam Zayn al-'Abidin (a) picked some up, declared it to be sacred dust, and kept it in a bag. The Imams (a) used to perform prostrations on it and make a tasbih out of it, and recited Allah's praises on it.

[ibn Shahrashub, al-Manaqib, vol. 2, p. 251]

The Imams a.s also encouraged the Shi'ah to perform prostrations on them, with the understanding that it was not compulsory, but with a view to achieving greater recompense. The Imams (a) insisted that prostration before Allah must be on clean earth only and that it was preferable if it was performed on that earth of Karbala.

[al-Tusi, Misbah al-Mutahajjad, p. 511]

[al-Saduq, Man la yahduruhu'l faqih, vol. 1, p. 174]

Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq said: “Prostration is not permitted except on the earth and whatever grows from it except on those things that are eaten or on cotton.”

When he (Imam Ja’far as Sadiq a.s) was asked whether having one’s turban touch the earth instead of the forehead was acceptable, he replied that this was not sufficeint unless the forehead actually touched the earth.

Wasa’il al-Shi’ah, Volume 3 page 592

Edited August 7, 2011 by Sheraz

[Shia_Debater]

I too thought the Original Poster was sunni otherwise I would have looked for shia hadith, my mistake.