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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Yousuf Ahmed

Political Clashes In Tunisia

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There were fierce clashes between Salafis and secularists in Tunis, after a blashpemous film "Neither God nor Master" produced by French-Tunisian director Nadia el-Fani, a well-known critic of Islam in public life, was shown in the Cinema Affrique. Islamists attacked the venue and assaulted the audience.

The incident

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There were fierce clashes between Salafis and secularists in Tunis, after a blashpemous film "Neither God nor Master" produced by French-Tunisian director Nadia el-Fani, a well-known critic of Islam in public life, was shown in the Cinema Affrique. Islamists attacked the venue and assaulted the audience.

The incident

Its amazing how intolerant some of these people in certain countries are. "They made a movie lets kill them!", they may as well be a bunch of chimpanzees waging war over a banana tree.

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When I saw the title I thought it was going to be something about the serious fault lines like the fact the military still rules or the economic crisis. This stuff seems pretty small time to me, but I know less about the Maghreb than the rest of the Arabic speaking world.

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Its amazing how intolerant some of these people in certain countries are. "They made a movie lets kill them!", they may as well be a bunch of chimpanzees waging war over a banana tree.

Or ancient pressurised banana trees (AKA oil).

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Or ancient pressurised banana trees (AKA oil).

The situation, appears to be an issue of intolerance not of resources. Unless the people acting like baboons over a movie somehow has to do with oil.

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The situation, appears to be an issue of intolerance not of resources. Unless the people acting like baboons over a movie somehow has to do with oil.

Faith could be considered an important resource, and where it is devalued by profit driven sensationalist blasphemy some reaction is to be expected. At least they're not maiming 1000's of innocent children in order to acquire inedible compressed banana trees.

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Faith could be considered an important resource, and where it is devalued by profit driven sensationalist blasphemy some reaction is to be expected.

Well, lets put this into context then. They are essentially promoting violence over the resource as opposed to seeking peaceful means of solving the conflict. We can take christians for example, people like william lane craig, they use intellect to promote ideas as opposed to violence, just as their opponents are doing. The movie itself isnt violent, but the reaction is. This reminds me of the little poem i heard when i was a child. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me".

The people who use violence against words essentially are against simple freedoms of speech, and if they arent against free speech, at the very least, they still do not know how to properly react as adults.

This is yet another reason why the world is tired of these..."extremists".

I mean really, what if someone made a movie about Islam, and a bunch of crazy buddhists came and burned down the theatre and threatened the authors? These people are acting like children.

Edited by iSilurian

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Well, lets put this into context then. They are essentially promoting violence over the resource as opposed to seeking peaceful means of solving the conflict. We can take christians for example, people like william lane craig, they use intellect to promote ideas as opposed to violence, just as their opponents are doing. The movie itself isnt violent, but the reaction is. This reminds me of the little poem i heard when i was a child. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me".

The people who use violence against words essentially are against simple freedoms of speech, and if they arent against free speech, at the very least, they still do not know how to properly react as adults.

This is yet another reason why the world is tired of these..."extremists".

If you say "**** off" to a policeman they can charge you with "using insulting/aggressive language near somebody likely to be caused offence" as well as public disorder. You can be thrown in jail and receive a criminal record. If you insult somebody and they assault you it can be called aggravated assault and the criminal charges can be dropped or at least diminished to insignificance.

Freedom of speech does not, and has never existed. Anywhere. Some are fond of heralding partisan ideological slogans which bear little or no relation to reality. This post is brought to you from the home of the slave and the land of the free healthcare.

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If you say "**** off" to a policeman they can charge you with "using insulting/aggressive language near somebody likely to be caused offence" as well as public disorder. You can be thrown in jail and receive a criminal record. If you insult somebody and they assault you it can be called aggravated assault and the criminal charges can be dropped or at least diminished to insignificance.

Freedom of speech does not, and has never existed. Anywhere. Some are fond of heralding partisan ideological slogans which bear little or no relation to reality. This post is brought to you from the home of the slave and the land of the free healthcare.

A police officer cannot violently beat you down if you tell him to **** off, as a matter of fact, if youre in the right and the police officer is acting out of their jurisdiction, you can actually get away with telliing a police office to **** off. Ive seen it happen before.

Maybe we live in a different countries, but if you beat someone up after they "hurt your feelings" with words, no charges will be dropped and you will be locked up.

Free speech does exist to a degree, if someone wants to speak, you should let them and respond intelligently, not like a barbarian. And especially here in the US, Lord knows we have a lot of speech going on, but as we can also see, nobody is running around burning down buildings over it.

Like i said before, what if an Islamic film was made and a bunch of buddhists ran around burning down movie theatres because of it? Its retarded and childish.

Edited by iSilurian

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Like i said before, what if an Islamic film was made and a bunch of buddhists ran around burning down movie theatres because of it? Its retarded and childish.

I don't see why biddhists would kick off over a film about Islam. If they did? Presumably they'd be arrested and punished because they hadn't been reasonably provoked.

If somebody gets in your face and starts vociferously and aggressively insulting your family etc. and you just stand there and take it you're either a robot, a coward or dead. If you knock them down, they call the police and witnesses confirm the events which took place, you'd be let off scott free 99% of the time. Freedom of speech does not and has never existed - anywhere - and rightly so. I'm not sure if the pen is mightier than the sword but speech can certainly do some damage; speech + moving pictures (movies) can presumably do even more damage.

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I don't see why biddhists would kick off over a film about Islam. If they did? Presumably they'd be arrested and punished because they hadn't been reasonably provoked.

If somebody gets in your face and starts vociferously and aggressively insulting your family etc. and you just stand there and take it you're either a robot, a coward or dead. If you knock them down, they call the police and witnesses confirm the events which took place, you'd be let off scott free 99% of the time. Freedom of speech does not and has never existed - anywhere - and rightly so. I'm not sure if the pen is mightier than the sword but speech can certainly do some damage; speech + moving pictures (movies) can presumably do even more damage.

The whole buddhist thing was a hypothetical situation that i know nobody in the right mind would agree with. Nobody thinks it would be a good thing if buddhists went and burned down a movie theatre after the movie demonstrated anti buddhist ideas. If you honestly think this is the proper course of action, you may need to ask yourself what your gradeschool teachers taught you about non violent resolutions.

and if someone gets in your face and insults you and your family, you arent supposed to go and burn down their house in the middle of the night and smash in their windows and beat them up. You can call the police on them, otherwise you should be the bigger man and walk away, or talk to them and tell them why theyre wrong in a peaceful way before they get violent to begin with.

Dont get me wrong, the pen is not always mightier than the sword...but in retaliation to what is non violent. The best course of actions is the pen.

I know, sometimes i get my feelings hurt when people tell me things that i do not agree with. But i dont go and try to kill them over it. Likewise, its easier for people to understand and learn concepts through peaceful education and peaceful speech.

If you ran around with a knife saying "you will believe what i say!"...nobody would believe you, as a matter of fact, everyone would be more scared to listen to you and more enraged and would want to retaliate even harder.

But if you ran around with a box of chocolates saying "hey, listen to this idea i have", then more people will listen and hear your voice.

The point is, going around like a bunch of children destroying things and beating people up just because they said something that "hurt your feelings", isnt the proper most optimal method of retaliation. Especially when its something as simple and non violent as a movie. I watch movies all the time that are against what i believe, but i dont mind because its peaceful criticism, and i know its a good thing to have critics and to not want to kill them.

And heres another point i figure ill make while im on this. Pain, especially emotional pain, is not a bad thing. It teaches how to learn to be stronger and to adapt to what causes the pain. If we kill off all things that cause pain, in respect to outside opinions, we will never learn of our own faults. It doesnt matter if its about religion or nationality or lifestyles etc etc...peaceful criticism always benefits the people involved.

Edited by iSilurian

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If you ran around with a knife saying "you will believe what i say!"...nobody would believe you, as a matter of fact, everyone would be more scared to listen to you and more enraged and would want to retaliate even harder.

Unfortunately this is not always the case; so many people follow Islam and Christianity because they're frightened of death and/or hell.

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Unfortunately this is not always the case; so many people follow Islam and Christianity because they're frightened of death and/or hell.

Well, not in all cases. Without a doubt there is a big difference between, lets say...saudi arabia or Iran, and some western countries.

Often, especially where im from, people leave christianity, why? because we hear things from outside sources that allow us to critically judge ourselves. If people drop a certain belief because of rational criticism, then its a good thing. Likewise christians use rational criticism to bring people in. It works both ways. The good thing is though, The most rational concepts will eventually be accepted.

And its all done, non violently. Not only that, but if there is no violence, people are not suppressed by fear. Just like you said, and i agree its very unfortunate that many people follow certain religions due to fear. But that doesnt mean that its the most optimal understanding of truth. The more true belief most likely will benefit those that have the opportunity to hear it, and those who are too busy worrying in fear of violence or hell, those are the weak ones who will fail in time.

But, if were in a place that doesnt allow us to criticise things, then people will never know anything other than what is allowed.

And this can be used for just about any subject. Nationality, religion, lifestyles...anything. peaceful criticism is good, and anyone who goes against such a thing, ultimately in the future will not have the same logical benefits and understanding as those that do.

I dont mean to be gung ho enlightenment, but this is how people advance in reason and logic. Im trying to avoid specific examples, but its definitely noticeable in the world today.

And this is why i use references to apes fighting over bananas and children. Its because the people intellectually are failing and they dont realize it.

Edited by iSilurian

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On one hand you had Ben Ali kept in power by the French, and Islamists being locked up and tortured without anyone being bothered. Its only normal that when an anti-Islamic film is now being made, presumably by an French-oriented secularist Ben-Ali supporter, it would be seen by the Salafis as being yet another attack on Islam, in order to "justify" Ben Ali's rule, and maybe create conditions for foreign intervention. Like, "Hey look Islam is so evil. Please great civilized French People, save us from Islam, invade us and prevent Islamists from taking power!"

I feel disgusted by these fifth columnists who love the foreign supported dictators who are always eager to lick the foreigner's feet. Why don't they leave the Islamic country if they hate Islam so much? If they don't like it, they should leave it. These same fifth columnists talk about human rights and democracy and freedom, yet they turn a blind eye to the secularist dictators who locked up and tortured these Islamists for the duration of the rule of the dictator. These lovers of democracy, not only supported the dictators, but also justified their rule, saying that else Islamists would take power.

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Why do they want to make films offensive to practising Muslims in Muslim countries ? Just to provoke the "ol' Muslims" and prove that "Salafists are really a threat" and to continue their iron-fisted Dictatorial secularism.

Would they have allowed a film in France questioning the credentials of The Constitution ? Would they have allowed a film in France questioning the ideals of the Republic ?

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