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In the Name of God بسم الله

Did The Imams(as) Know When And Where They'll Die?

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walikum salam,

Imam Ali (as) knew Ibn Muljam (la) will martyr him. He even woke him up in masjid knowing what he was here to do. Imam Hussain (as) after reaching karbala said that this is the place where him and his family will fall and even showed the places where each of 72 will martyr. Imam Hassan (as) knew that his wife will poison him. So yes they know when they will leave this world.

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walikum salam,

Imam Ali (as) knew Ibn Muljam (la) will martyr him. He even woke him up in masjid knowing what he was here to do. Imam Hussain (as) after reaching karbala said that this is the place where him and his family will fall and even showed the places where each of 72 will martyr. Imam Hassan (as) knew that his wife will poison him. So yes they know when they will leave this world.

Thank you. How about where they would leave this world?

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You've probably seen this chapter of al-Kafi:

http://www.alkadhum.org/other/mktba/hadith/alkafe01/09.htm#04

Out of those, the sixth and eighth have hasan isnads, the rest are in some manner da`if. There's also this (mursal, though Ibrahim b. Abi Mahmud is thiqa himself) hadith in Mukhtasar al-Basa'ir:

[ 23/23 ] ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãøÏ Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ÃÈí ãÍãæÏ ¡ Úä ÈÚÖ ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ ÞÇá : ÞáÊ ááÑÖÇ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÇáÅãÇã íÚáã ÅÐÇ ãÇÊ ¿ ÝÞÇá : « äÚã ¡ ÍÊøì íÊÞÏøã Ýí ÇáÃãÑ » ÞáÊ : Úáã ÃÈæ ÇáÍÓä Õáøì Çááå Úáíå ÈÇáÑØÈ æÇáÑíÍÇä ÇáãÓãæãíä ÇááøÐíä ÈÚË ÈåãÇ Åáíå íÍíì Èä ÎÇáÏ ¿ ÝÞÇá : « äÚã » ÞáÊ : ÝÃßáå æåæ íÚáã ¿ ÝÞÇá : « ÃäÓíå (5) áíäÝÐ Ýíå ÇáÍßã » (6).

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You've probably seen this chapter of al-Kafi:

http://www.alkadhum.org/other/mktba/hadith/alkafe01/09.htm#04

Out of those, the sixth and eighth have hasan isnads, the rest are in some manner da`if. There's also this (mursal, though Ibrahim b. Abi Mahmud is thiqa himself) hadith in Mukhtasar al-Basa'ir:

[ 23/23 ] ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãøÏ Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ÃÈí ãÍãæÏ ¡ Úä ÈÚÖ ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ ÞÇá : ÞáÊ ááÑÖÇ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÇáÅãÇã íÚáã ÅÐÇ ãÇÊ ¿ ÝÞÇá : « äÚã ¡ ÍÊøì íÊÞÏøã Ýí ÇáÃãÑ » ÞáÊ : Úáã ÃÈæ ÇáÍÓä Õáøì Çááå Úáíå ÈÇáÑØÈ æÇáÑíÍÇä ÇáãÓãæãíä ÇááøÐíä ÈÚË ÈåãÇ Åáíå íÍíì Èä ÎÇáÏ ¿ ÝÞÇá : « äÚã » ÞáÊ : ÝÃßáå æåæ íÚáã ¿ ÝÞÇá : « ÃäÓíå (5) áíäÝÐ Ýíå ÇáÍßã » (6).

(bismillah)

(salam)

#6 = Majhool

But yes, the other two are correct in their gradings. (#8 = Hasan, Hadeeth Posted above = Mursal)

[31.34] Surely Allah is He with Whom is the knowledge of the hour, and He sends down the rain and He knows what is in the wombs; and no one knows what he shall earn on the morrow; and no one knows in what land he shall die; surely Allah is Knowing, Aware.

Wa Allaahu 'Alim

(salam)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

You've probably seen this chapter of al-Kafi:

http://www.alkadhum.org/other/mktba/hadith/alkafe01/09.htm#04

Out of those, the sixth and eighth have hasan isnads, the rest are in some manner da`if. There's also this (mursal, though Ibrahim b. Abi Mahmud is thiqa himself) hadith in Mukhtasar al-Basa'ir:

[ 23/23 ] ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãøÏ Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ÃÈí ãÍãæÏ ¡ Úä ÈÚÖ ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ ÞÇá : ÞáÊ ááÑÖÇ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÇáÅãÇã íÚáã ÅÐÇ ãÇÊ ¿ ÝÞÇá : « äÚã ¡ ÍÊøì íÊÞÏøã Ýí ÇáÃãÑ » ÞáÊ : Úáã ÃÈæ ÇáÍÓä Õáøì Çááå Úáíå ÈÇáÑØÈ æÇáÑíÍÇä ÇáãÓãæãíä ÇááøÐíä ÈÚË ÈåãÇ Åáíå íÍíì Èä ÎÇáÏ ¿ ÝÞÇá : « äÚã » ÞáÊ : ÝÃßáå æåæ íÚáã ¿ ÝÞÇá : « ÃäÓíå (5) áíäÝÐ Ýíå ÇáÍßã » (6).

(bismillah)

(salam)

#6 = Majhool

But yes, the other two are correct in their gradings. (#8 = Hasan, Hadeeth Posted above = Mursal)

[31.34] Surely Allah is He with Whom is the knowledge of the hour, and He sends down the rain and He knows what is in the wombs; and no one knows what he shall earn on the morrow; and no one knows in what land he shall die; surely Allah is Knowing, Aware.

Wa Allaahu 'Alim

(salam)

Awesome, problem solved. May Allah(swt) reward you both

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(bismillah)

(salam)

#6 = Majhool

But yes, the other two are correct in their gradings. (#8 = Hasan, Hadeeth Posted above = Mursal)

[31.34] Surely Allah is He with Whom is the knowledge of the hour, and He sends down the rain and He knows what is in the wombs; and no one knows what he shall earn on the morrow; and no one knows in what land he shall die; surely Allah is Knowing, Aware.

Wa Allaahu 'Alim

(salam)

What about Prophat Noah?

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In the same chapter, Hadith no. 7

- محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن الوشاء، عن أحمد بن عائذ، عن أبي خديجة، عن أبي عبدالله (عليه السلام) قال، كنت عند أبي في اليوم الذي قبض فيه فأوصاني بأشياء في غسله وفي كفنه وفي دخوله قبره، فقلت: يا أباه والله ما رأيتك منذ اشتكيت أحسن منك اليوم، ما رأيت عليك أثر الموت، فقال: يا بني أما سمعت علي بن الحسين (عليهما السلام) ينادي من وراء الدار يا محمد تعال، عجل؟

Muhammad bin Yahya from Ahmad bin Muhammad from al-Wash'a from Ahmad bin A'idh from Abi Khadija from Abi Abdillah (a.s) who said : I was with my father the day that he died, so he willed to me some things about his Ghusl and his Kafan and his being entered into his grave, so I said : O my father, I have not seen you in a better condition since you fell ill than today, and I do not seen any signs of death upon you, so He (a.s) said : O my son, have you not heard Ali bin Husayn (upon them both peace) calling from behind the house, saying : O Muhammad, come, make haste?

al-Majlisi makes it Dhaif like Muwathaq,

Since Muhammad bin Yahya (Thiqah - Imami), Ahmad bin Muhammad (Thiqah - Imami), al-Wash'a (Thiqah - Ghayr Imami who returned), Ahmad bin Aidh (Thiqah - Imami),

as to Abi Khadija then he is according to al-Khui - Salim bin Mukrim - Thiqah Thiqah,

though there are other Rijal who also had the same Kuniyyah of Abu Khadijah who are Majhul narrating from al-Sadiq, so for al-Khui this Hadith is Muwathaq like Sahih,

and if it truly is the case that it is Salim, then for al-Majlisi it should be Muwathaq,

In conclusion, the Hadith is Muwathaq due to al-Wash'a who was from the Waqifa and returned, and it is possible this Hadith was narrated in the state after return and so would become Sahih, as long as Abi Khadija is Salim, and that is closer to the truth.

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And the conclusive proof that Abi Khadija here is Salim bin Mukrim then look at the Fihrist of the Shaykh where he says

سالم بن مكرم ، يكنّى أبا خديجة ، ومكرم يكنّى أبا سلمة ، ضعيف ، له كتاب ، روى عنه : أحمد بن عائذ وعبد الرحمن بن أبي هاشم

Salim bin Mukrim, his Kuniyyah is Aba Khadija and Mukrim has the Kuniyyah Aba Salma, Dhaif, he has a book, narrated from him Ahmad bin A'idh and Abdir-Rahman bin Abi Hashim,

And this proves that Abi Khadijah in the narration is Salim bin Mukrim, since in this specific Hadith Ahmad bin A'idh is the one narrating from Abi Khadijah,

As for the Shaykh saying that he is Dhaif, then this does not hurt the man because an-Najashi takes precedence when he said under his name Thiqah Thiqah (twice).

So the Hadith no. 7 in that chapter is Muwathaq (due to al-Wash'a) or Sahih (for those who take that al-Wash'a had already returned to the Madhab), since Abi Khadijah is the Thiqah Salim.

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Is there tafsir for this particular verse?

Brother is a tafsir really necessary when there's such a crystal-clear verse like this? What's the meaning of the hadiths that tell us to compare every hadith to the Quran?

Do we only tell that to Sunnis to make them think that we place the Quran above anything else, but then when there are clear verses on certain things that contradict some of our beliefs (like that Husayn(as) know which land he was going to die in), we don't accept the clear verse as it is, rather, we go to what some scholar said or what some hadith says?

So if we go through that route, we're not comparing everything by the Quran. Rather we're comparing the Quran by everything else, whether it be what a scholar says, what a hadith says, what science says, what our culture says, etc.

And it's not like this is a verse that is unclear. It is clear as day and night.

But if you would like a tafsir, 'Allamah Tabatabaa'ii didn't really go into too much depth here:

Þæáå: «æ ãÇ ÊÏÑí äÝÓ ÈÃí ÃÑÖ ÊãæÊ».

æ ßÇä ÇáãÑÇÏ ÊÐßÑÉ Ãä Çááå íÚáã ßá ãÇ ÏÞ æ Ìá ÍÊì ãËá ÇáÓÇÚÉ ÇáÊí áÇ íÊíÓÑ ÚáãåÇ ááÎáÞ æ ÃäÊã ÊÌåáæä Ãåã ãÇ íåãßã ãä ÇáÚáã ÝÇááå íÚáã æ ÃäÊã áÇ ÊÚáãæä ÝÅíÇßã Ãä ÊÔÑßæÇ Èå æ ÊÊãÑÏæÇ Úä ÃãÑå æ ÊÚÑÖæÇ Úä ÏÚæÊå ÝÊåáßæÇ ÈÌåáßã.

http://www.holyquran.net/cgi-bin/almizan.pl?ch=31&vr=34&sp=5&sv=0

salam bro

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There's no contradiction between that verse and Imams knowing the place of their death. No one is claiming their knowledge is independent; it has all come from Allah. He has given them more knowledge than us.

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and again i will ask people who just randomly pick a Quran verse and say that its crystal clear: do you have credentials to interpret Quran? one basic requirement to interpret Quran is that you pick up all verses of Quran about that topic and see what Quran speaks of it.

This means the whole martyrdom of Meesam Tamar (ra) is made up, since he knew when, where and how he will die.

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I looked for a hadith giving tafsir of this ayat, and this is what I found in Tafsir al-Qummi:

قال الصادق (عليه السلام) هذه الخمسة أشياء لم يطلع عليها ملك مقرب ولا نبي مرسل وهي من صفات الله عزوجل.

as-Sadiq عليه السلام said: These five are things which no close angel and no sent prophet have been made to know and they are from the attributes of Allah عزوجل.

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In the same chapter, Hadith no. 7

- ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇáæÔÇÁ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÇÆС Úä ÃÈí ÎÏíÌÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÞÇá¡ ßäÊ ÚäÏ ÃÈí Ýí Çáíæã ÇáÐí ÞÈÖ Ýíå ÝÃæÕÇäí ÈÃÔíÇÁ Ýí ÛÓáå æÝí ßÝäå æÝí ÏÎæáå ÞÈÑå¡ ÝÞáÊ: íÇ ÃÈÇå æÇááå ãÇ ÑÃíÊß ãäÐ ÇÔÊßíÊ ÃÍÓä ãäß Çáíæã¡ ãÇ ÑÃíÊ Úáíß ÃËÑ ÇáãæÊ¡ ÝÞÇá: íÇ Èäí ÃãÇ ÓãÚÊ Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä (ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã) íäÇÏí ãä æÑÇÁ ÇáÏÇÑ íÇ ãÍãÏ ÊÚÇá¡ ÚÌá¿

Muhammad bin Yahya from Ahmad bin Muhammad from al-Wash'a from Ahmad bin A'idh from Abi Khadija from Abi Abdillah (a.s) who said : I was with my father the day that he died, so he willed to me some things about his Ghusl and his Kafan and his being entered into his grave, so I said : O my father, I have not seen you in a better condition since you fell ill than today, and I do not seen any signs of death upon you, so He (a.s) said : O my son, have you not heard Ali bin Husayn (upon them both peace) calling from behind the house, saying : O Muhammad, come, make haste?

al-Majlisi makes it Dhaif like Muwathaq,

Since Muhammad bin Yahya (Thiqah - Imami), Ahmad bin Muhammad (Thiqah - Imami), al-Wash'a (Thiqah - Ghayr Imami who returned), Ahmad bin Aidh (Thiqah - Imami),

as to Abi Khadija then he is according to al-Khui - Salim bin Mukrim - Thiqah Thiqah,

though there are other Rijal who also had the same Kuniyyah of Abu Khadijah who are Majhul narrating from al-Sadiq, so for al-Khui this Hadith is Muwathaq like Sahih,

and if it truly is the case that it is Salim, then for al-Majlisi it should be Muwathaq,

In conclusion, the Hadith is Muwathaq due to al-Wash'a who was from the Waqifa and returned, and it is possible this Hadith was narrated in the state after return and so would become Sahih, as long as Abi Khadija is Salim, and that is closer to the truth.

al-Majlisi graded it 'daif / muwaththaq' probably b/c of different opinions regarding Salim b. Mukarram.

æÞÏ ÇÎÊáÝ Ýíå¡ ÝÐåÈ ÈÚÖ Åáì æËÇÞÊå¡ æÐåÈ ÂÎÑæä Åáì ÖÚÝå¡ æÊæÞøÝ Ýíå ÇÈä ØÇææÓ(1)¡ æÇáÚáÇøãÉ

I read this today...

ÈÖÚÝ ÇáÓäÏ ÈÇÈí ÎÏíÌÉ ÓÇáã Èä ãßÑã ÇáÌãÇá¡ ÍíË ÖÚÝå ßá ãä ÇáÔíÎ æÇÈä ÏÇæÏ æÇáÚáÇãÉ ÇáÍáí¡æÈÊÖÚíÝ ÇãËÇá åÄáÇÁ ÊÓÞØ ÇáÑæÇíÉ Úä ÇáÇÚÊÈÇÑ¡ æáÇ íÌÏí ÊæËíÞ ÇáäÌÇÔí Ýí ÇáãÞÇã¡ áãÚÇÑÖÊå ÈÊÖÚíÝþÇáÌãÇÚÉ ÝíÊÚÇÑÖÇä æíÊÓÇÞØÇä¡ æÊÈÞì ÇáÑæÇíÉ ÈáÇ ÊæËíÞ ÝáÇ íãßä ÇáÇÓÊäÇÏ ÇáíåÇ¡ æáÇ íãßä ÍíäÆÐ æÕÝåÇÈÇáÕÍíÍÉ Çæ ÇáãÚÊÈÑÉ ßãÇ ÞÏ íÑì Ýí ÇáÓäÉ ÇáÈÚÖ

w/s

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And what is this if not Tawthiq (twice) from Najashi

سالم بن مكرم

بن عبد الله أبو خديجة ويقال أبو سلمة الكناسي. يقال صاحب الغنم مولى بني أسد الجمال. يقال : كنيته كانت أبا خديجة وإن أبا عبد الله عليه السلام كناه أبا سلمة ، ثقه ثقة ، روى عن أبي عبد الله وأبي الحسن عليهما السلام

سالم بن مكرم : وثقه النجاشي ، وقال علي

بن الحسن بن فضال أنه صالح ونسب العلامة

إلى الشيخ توثيقه في موضع ، وتضعيف الشيخ

له في الفهرست لا يمكن الأخذ به لأنه مبني على

اتحاده مع سالم بن أبي سلمة الكندي والحال إنه

غيره

And by this al-Khui also makes Tawthiq of him in Mu'jam, so for Khui this Hadith is Mu'tabar.

And saying that an-Najashi's Tawthiq holds no weight against three scholars' Tadhif (playing the numbers game) is not really true, since all that the Allamah and Ibn Daud do is to mainly refer to these two (Najashi and Tusi), so the matter is really between the two, but an-Najashi's Tawthiq is given weight over at-Tusi's Tadhif because al-Khui thinks that at-Tusi was referring to another man altogethor in his Tadhif, regardless of the fact that even if they were referring to the same man, most scholars believe that an-Najashi was better in the field so his verdicts were given precedence.

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Brother is a tafsir really necessary when there's such a crystal-clear verse like this? What's the meaning of the hadiths that tell us to compare every hadith to the Quran?

Do we only tell that to Sunnis to make them think that we place the Quran above anything else, but then when there are clear verses on certain things that contradict some of our beliefs (like that Husayn(as) know which land he was going to die in), we don't accept the clear verse as it is, rather, we go to what some scholar said or what some hadith says?

So if we go through that route, we're not comparing everything by the Quran. Rather we're comparing the Quran by everything else, whether it be what a scholar says, what a hadith says, what science says, what our culture says, etc.

And it's not like this is a verse that is unclear. It is clear as day and night.

But if you would like a tafsir, 'Allamah Tabatabaa'ii didn't really go into too much depth here:

قوله: «و ما تدري نفس بأي أرض تموت».

و كان المراد تذكرة أن الله يعلم كل ما دق و جل حتى مثل الساعة التي لا يتيسر علمها للخلق و أنتم تجهلون أهم ما يهمكم من العلم فالله يعلم و أنتم لا تعلمون فإياكم أن تشركوا به و تتمردوا عن أمره و تعرضوا عن دعوته فتهلكوا بجهلكم.

http://www.holyquran...vr=34&sp=5&sv=0

salam bro

Wa Aleikum Salaam,

If it was Crystal-clear verse, i wouldn't asked about Tafsir. I wonder what it means by "no one know on what land he/she will die", because image the suicide people they know exactly on what land they will die.

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There's no contradiction between that verse and Imams knowing the place of their death. No one is claiming their knowledge is independent; it has all come from Allah. He has given them more knowledge than us.

No soul means no soul regardless of Allah(swt) informed it or not...

Wa Aleikum Salaam,

If it was Crystal-clear verse, i wouldn't asked about Tafsir. I wonder what it means by "no one know on what land he/she will die", because image the suicide people they know exactly on what land they will die.

You make a good point brother and i can see where you're getting back but remember that this isn't necessarily true. How many people who've attempted suicide didn't end up killing themselves? There've been plenty of examples of people who've fired a gun to their head yet ended up living subhanAllah. So it's not really 100% for sure.

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(salam)

(bismillah)

In the same chapter, Hadith no. 7

- محمد بن يحيى، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن الوشاء، عن أحمد بن عائذ، عن أبي خديجة، عن أبي عبدالله (عليه السلام) قال، كنت عند أبي في اليوم الذي قبض فيه فأوصاني بأشياء في غسله وفي كفنه وفي دخوله قبره، فقلت: يا أباه والله ما رأيتك منذ اشتكيت أحسن منك اليوم، ما رأيت عليك أثر الموت، فقال: يا بني أما سمعت علي بن الحسين (عليهما السلام) ينادي من وراء الدار يا محمد تعال، عجل؟

Muhammad bin Yahya from Ahmad bin Muhammad from al-Wash'a from Ahmad bin A'idh from Abi Khadija from Abi Abdillah (a.s) who said : I was with my father the day that he died, so he willed to me some things about his Ghusl and his Kafan and his being entered into his grave, so I said : O my father, I have not seen you in a better condition since you fell ill than today, and I do not seen any signs of death upon you, so He (a.s) said : O my son, have you not heard Ali bin Husayn (upon them both peace) calling from behind the house, saying : O Muhammad, come, make haste?

al-Majlisi makes it Dhaif like Muwathaq,

This will be Muwaththaq (Reliable).

This should be enough to show that it is Saalim bin Mukram (Aboo Khadeejah):

الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ الْأَشْعَرِيُّ عَنْ مُعَلَّى بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ الْوَشَّاءِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ عَائِذٍ عَنْ أَبِي خَدِيجَةَ سَالِمِ بْنِ مُكْرَمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع

الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَامِرٍ عَنْ مُعَلَّى بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ عَلِيُّ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ صَالِحِ بْنِ أَبِي حَمَّادٍ جَمِيعاً عَنِ الْوَشَّاءِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ عَائِذٍ عَنْ أَبِي خَدِيجَةَ سَالِمِ بْنِ مُكْرَمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع

الْحُسَيْنُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُعَلَّى بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ وَ عَلِيُّ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ صَالِحِ بْنِ أَبِي حَمَّادٍ جَمِيعاً عَنِ الْوَشَّاءِ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ عَائِذٍ عَنْ أَبِي خَدِيجَةَ سَالِمِ بْنِ مُكْرَمٍ عَنْ مُعَلَّى بْنِ خُنَيْسٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع

al-Najaashee's statements are taken over al-Toosi (please see Shaheed al-Thaani and Bahr al-`Uloom), especially if al-Najaashee gives heavy tawtheeq as he did when he said "thiqah thiqah".

Don't forget this statement from al-Kashee's Rijaal:

محمد بن مسعود قال سألت أبا الحسن علي بن الحسن عن اسم أبي خديجة؟ قال سالم بن مكرم فقلت له ثقة؟ فقال: صالح و كان من أهل الكوفة و كان جمالا و ذكر أنه حمل أبا عبد الله (عليه السلام) من مكة إلى المدينة

Now you have that tawtheeq as well.

(salam)

Edited by Nader Zaveri
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(salam)

(bismillah)

I looked for a hadith giving tafsir of this ayat, and this is what I found in Tafsir al-Qummi:

ÞÇá ÇáÕÇÏÞ (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) åÐå ÇáÎãÓÉ ÃÔíÇÁ áã íØáÚ ÚáíåÇ ãáß ãÞÑÈ æáÇ äÈí ãÑÓá æåí ãä ÕÝÇÊ Çááå ÚÒæÌá.

as-Sadiq Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: These five are things which no close angel and no sent prophet have been made to know and they are from the attributes of Allah ÚÒæÌá.

There are numerous aHaadeeth about this from BaSaa'ir al-Darajaat, many are authentic as well.

Ýí ÈÕÇÆÑ ÇáÏÑÌÇÊ ãÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏ ÇáÍãíÏ æ ÃÈæ ØÇáÈ ÌãíÚÇ Úä ÍäÇä Èä ÓÏíÑ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ÞÇá: Çä Çááå ÚáãÇ ÚÇãÇ æ ÚáãÇ ÎÇÕÇ¡ ÝÃãÇ ÇáÎÇÕ ÝÇáÐí áã íØáÚ Úáíå ãáß ãÞÑÈ æ áÇ äÈí ãÑÓá¡ æ ÇãÇ Úáãå ÇáÚÇã ÝÇáÐí ÇØáÚÊ Úáíå ÇáãáÇÆßÉ ÇáãÞÑÈæä æ ÇáÃäÈíÇÁ ÇáãÑÓáæä¡ æ ÞÏ æÞÚ Ðáß ßáå ÅáíäÇ Ëã ÞÇá: Ãæ ãÇ ÊÞÑÃ:

ÚöäúÏóåõ Úöáúãõ ÇáÓóøÇÚóÉö æó íõäóÒöøáõ ÇáúÛóíúËó æó íóÚúáóãõ ãÇ Ýöí ÇáúÃóÑúÍÇãö æó ãÇ ÊóÏúÑöí äóÝúÓñ ãÇ ÐÇ ÊóßúÓöÈõ ÛóÏÇð æó ãÇ ÊóÏúÑöí äóÝúÓñ ÈöÃóíöø ÃóÑúÖò ÊóãõæÊõ

(salam)

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No soul means no soul regardless of Allah(swt) informed it or not...

You make a good point brother and i can see where you're getting back but remember that this isn't necessarily true. How many people who've attempted suicide didn't end up killing themselves? There've been plenty of examples of people who've fired a gun to their head yet ended up living subhanAllah. So it's not really 100% for sure.

Another example will be those who are dying and before their last breath, they actually know in which place they will die. There must be a good explanation from our Imams (as).

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As far as my knowledge serves me Death is when the soul from the body which has been given by Allah (SWT) has to return to him. It is merely what has been given to you for a test which is being taken back to judge.

The Imams and the Messengers of Allah (PBUT) were given immense knowledge - so much so that they had the knowledge of the unseen (one which cannot be seen by us humans) and therefore by the will of the Almighty Allah (SWT) were alliveted from us humans to teach us righteousness and guide us to the right path, one which has been chosen for us by our creator.

In view of the above, it does seem likely that the Imam's had a knowledge about the death of people who they were close to for instance..in the case of

Janabe Abu Amr Usman Ibne Saeed Amri(a.r.) who was the first deputy of Imam Mahdi (ATFS) served the 12th Imam for 18 months and received a letter near his death from Imam(a.s.) telling him to appoint his son Mohammed as the next representative.

In the case of Imam Hussain (A.S) the Prophet and Messenger of God, Muhammad (pbuh) knew about the gory events of Karbala which were going to unfold and take the life of his beloved grandson.

During the battle of Karbala, Imam Hussain (A.S) knows that he is going to fall in battle on Ashura when he is inspecting the battleground during the previous night (as it has been done in preceeding battles). This has been the only account of the Imam knowing about his death beforehand.

Surely, the Infalibles have the highest place in Jannah so are not worried about their souls leaving their body, yet so ......... Allah (SWT) does not allow them to see their own death or demise.

It is not permissable to know about one's death as that is left in the hands of the Almighty Allah. So what is not permissable will stay that way unless it is the will of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

Imam Ali (A.S) to one of the questions which were put forth to him upon his challenge to the people (ask me anything under the sun) who questioned our Imam as to how long he would live or when would he die was given the mercifully replied that his life was from Azan to Azan (since Imam Ali (as) was not permitted to let the person know about his death)

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"From what we have already established, it has become clear to us that the Imams (‘a) were never ignorant of the martyrdom of each one of them: who would commit it, how and when"

source: http://www.al-islam.org/maqtal/ chapter 4, first paragraph

the same chapter: "Their bracing their death and taking poison was never due to their ignorance of what an oppressive ruler was doing to them. Rather, they were quite sure about it. They knew of their killer and his method of killing, and even of the day and time,"

Edited by rballer
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