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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is This Worship?

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is this worship or prayer?

i really cant tell... or is it just a party? :squeez:

(bismillah)

(salam)

If you make fun of them, they will make fun of you. Think about it.

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is this worship or prayer?

i really cant tell... or is it just a party? :squeez:

For them it is both and these folks feel they are filled with the Holy Spirit. For them church on Sunday is akin to an all day party. They will take a break to eat and get right back at it. When I was a kid and had little respect I called them "holy rollers" because they would sometimes roll on the floor. If you could get a good look at the women's clothes and feet you would see very long skirts and shoes that covered their toes. To them just about everything is sinful but eating and they do a lot of hence many of the women are obese.

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This is the same just like all other innovated forms of worship.

We have explanations of How Allah wants to be worshiped through the Qur'an and the Sunnah where Allah has legislated how exactly he wants to be worshiped.

However, some people get big headed. For whatever reasons, desire, culture or whatever, they decide to innovate forms of worship instead of following exactly what Allah has legislated. Essentially these people are telling Allah "We are going to worship you in a way according to how we like, on our terms with what we feel is most pleasing to us, not how you told us to worship you."

That is the reality of this and allllllllllll the rest of the innovated acts of worship.

If the Prophet (pbuh) did not do it, if it's not in the Qur'an and Sunnah to do it, then you leave it alone.

Very Clear. Very Straightforward. No Mystery involved.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

If you make fun of them, they will make fun of you. Think about it.

I'm not making fun of them. I took a real video off youtube which shows REAL PEOPLE doing REAL THINGS.... if they find a video of a muslim praying is that making fun of?

Plus theres nothing to make fun of in Islam=] It's the real religion of God swt

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I'm not making fun of them. I took a real video off youtube which shows REAL PEOPLE doing REAL THINGS.... if they find a video of a muslim praying is that making fun of?

Plus theres nothing to make fun of in Islam=] It's the real religion of God swt

(bismillah)

(salam)

You said:

i really cant tell... or is it just a party? :squeez:

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by party or :squeez:

They think this is worship. When they are in their church it's their religion.

As long as they don't try to become missionaries and export this to Muslim countries, we should leave them alone.

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This is the same just like all other innovated forms of worship.

We have explanations of How Allah wants to be worshiped through the Qur'an and the Sunnah where Allah has legislated how exactly he wants to be worshiped.

However, some people get big headed. For whatever reasons, desire, culture or whatever, they decide to innovate forms of worship instead of following exactly what Allah has legislated. Essentially these people are telling Allah "We are going to worship you in a way according to how we like, on our terms with what we feel is most pleasing to us, not how you told us to worship you."

That is the reality of this and allllllllllll the rest of the innovated acts of worship.

If the Prophet (pbuh) did not do it, if it's not in the Qur'an and Sunnah to do it, then you leave it alone.

Very Clear. Very Straightforward. No Mystery involved.

[/quote]

"Plus theres nothing to make fun of in Islam=] It's the real religion of God swt"

These folks feel that there is nothing funny about them because their religion is the real religion of God, what is fun is that both are right.

Your sermon means nothing to them because they are Christians.

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"Plus theres nothing to make fun of in Islam=] It's the real religion of God swt"

These folks feel that there is nothing funny about them because their religion is the real religion of God, what is fun is that both are right.

Your sermon means nothing to them because they are Christians.

Who mentioned anything about laughing? I never said I make fun of them nor do I make fun of them nor did i allude to making fun of them. I did not even address the details of what goes on in the video nor did I watch it because I am well aware of what happens.

My whole post was about leaving innovated forms of worship. Whatever form them may take.

Furthermore, as a side note: This form of worship is innovated even within there own theology.

Next time, before taking satirical shots at me or anyone else, make sure you have read there post carefully.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

You said:

Maybe I don't understand what you mean by party or :squeez:

They think this is worship. When they are in their church it's their religion.

As long as they don't try to become missionaries and export this to Muslim countries, we should leave them alone.

well for all i know maybe someone threw a birthday party at the church? i am leaving them alone, u dunt see my going to their church and bringing it down with a bulldozer such as shia mosques in bahrain... jeez what now we cant even ask questions about other faiths?

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Who mentioned anything about laughing? I never said I make fun of them nor do I make fun of them nor did i allude to making fun of them. I did not even address the details of what goes on in the video nor did I watch it because I am well aware of what happens.

My whole post was about leaving innovated forms of worship. Whatever form them may take.

Furthermore, as a side note: This form of worship is innovated even within there own theology.

Next time, before taking satirical shots at me or anyone else, make sure you have read there post carefully.

You said:

"However, some people get big headed. For whatever reasons, desire, culture or whatever, they decide to innovate forms of worship instead of following exactly what Allah has legislated. Essentially these people are telling Allah "We are going to worship you in a way according to how we like, on our terms with what we feel is most pleasing to us, not how you told us to worship you."

"Plus theres nothing to make fun of in Islam=] It's the real religion of God swt"

I did not mention laughing but you showed these people no respect. These people are Christians and they are not telling God anything but that they love God and worship God and you say that is wrong? It sounds to me like you have the "BIG HEAD"

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You still are not getting the point.

And before I spoon feed the concept to you....again, read the post before making any satirical attacks on me. You are either clearly not reading the posts or are clearly not able to understand the concept.

If you love God, you obey what he has sent forth and you worship him according to how he has told you to worship him. Not according to how you FEEL god should be worshiped.

This act of worship was INNOVATED within the Christian religion. This is not how they were instructed to show gratitude to God even within there own holy texts. Their highly regarded predecessors or those they hold in high esteem did not show gratitude, love or worshiped like this and their Prophet DEFINITELY did not show gratitude or love or worship like this.

This means this act of worship is INNOVATED.

And what is the nature of the any innovation? To bring something new.

Meaning, this act of worship was INVENTED by people. It was not what/how God asked them to show love, worship or gratitude even within their own revered texts.

Therefor, they are telling God how he needs to be worshiped, how to show love to him and how to show gratitude to him instead of following what God, there prophet and there revered predecessors did. (AKA those who new the faith BEST) did.

I can just as easily tell someone to run 12 laps around the field, do 20 push ups do 5 jumping jacks and hold your breathe for 10 seconds and that God loves this and this is how to show love to God.

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it actually looks fun :P but u know what.. they r expressing their love to God.. so who cares how it looks as long as in their hearts they LOVE God coz that's what really matters :)

If you make fun of them, they will make fun of you. Think about it.

agreed :yaali:

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You still are not getting the point.

And before I spoon feed the concept to you....again, read the post before making any satirical attacks on me. You are either clearly not reading the posts or are clearly not able to understand the concept.

If you love God, you obey what he has sent forth and you worship him according to how he has told you to worship him. Not according to how you FEEL god should be worshiped.

This act of worship was INNOVATED within the Christian religion. This is not how they were instructed to show gratitude to God even within there own holy texts. Their highly regarded predecessors or those they hold in high esteem did not show gratitude, love or worshiped like this and their Prophet DEFINITELY did not show gratitude or love or worship like this.

This means this act of worship is INNOVATED.

And what is the nature of the any innovation? To bring something new.

Meaning, this act of worship was INVENTED by people. It was not what/how God asked them to show love, worship or gratitude even within their own revered texts.

Therefor, they are telling God how he needs to be worshiped, how to show love to him and how to show gratitude to him instead of following what God, there prophet and there revered predecessors did. (AKA those who new the faith BEST) did.

I can just as easily tell someone to run 12 laps around the field, do 20 push ups do 5 jumping jacks and hold your breathe for 10 seconds and that God loves this and this is how to show love to God.

Try and understand this. These people are worshipping the way they believe God wants them to just like you and there is absolutely no different between them and you. Now you can either grasp this or not, if not it is your loss.

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You still are not getting the point.

And before I spoon feed the concept to you....again, read the post before making any satirical attacks on me. You are either clearly not reading the posts or are clearly not able to understand the concept.

If you love God, you obey what he has sent forth and you worship him according to how he has told you to worship him. Not according to how you FEEL god should be worshiped.

This act of worship was INNOVATED within the Christian religion. This is not how they were instructed to show gratitude to God even within there own holy texts. Their highly regarded predecessors or those they hold in high esteem did not show gratitude, love or worshiped like this and their Prophet DEFINITELY did not show gratitude or love or worship like this.

This means this act of worship is INNOVATED.

And what is the nature of the any innovation? To bring something new.

Meaning, this act of worship was INVENTED by people. It was not what/how God asked them to show love, worship or gratitude even within their own revered texts.

Therefor, they are telling God how he needs to be worshiped, how to show love to him and how to show gratitude to him instead of following what God, there prophet and there revered predecessors did. (AKA those who new the faith BEST) did.

I can just as easily tell someone to run 12 laps around the field, do 20 push ups do 5 jumping jacks and hold your breathe for 10 seconds and that God loves this and this is how to show love to God.

Actually this form of worship has more to do with cultural backgrounds that have infiltrated the Christian Church. Much of Christianity has been influenced by the cultures that have adopted it.

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High Red Water Cup,

You were quite courageous to post the video from Youtube, not knowing what reaction you would get.

Yes, this is worship. --- Before we let it go or have it overshadowed by something that will take away from it, I would like to have us examine it to see if it is Scriptural, and 'in order, ' or, 'out of order.'

While there is no indication of the name and location of the Church displayed, we can observe a few things,

There is no American flag, or other country flag visible, which may indicate it is not from the Continental US.

--- Let's look at the building, it is very plain and has a solid floor (doesn't look like carpet), it has a reasonably high ceiling,with florescent light panels in the ceiling.

It was obviously not built to be a Church. The pulpit and platform are not necessarily part of the building, and the pulpit is in the center, which indicates it is an Evangelical Church.

--- And there are some crutches on the one side wall. What does that tell us?

The suggestion that it might have been a party, or the result of a party is possible, but it would likely be more of a convention, or special Church gathering.

--- What might suggest that it was some special meeting could be indicated by how well dressed the people are. --- The men are wearing suits.

--- And the women are well dresses in long skirts and very modest clothing, by world standards.

Notice too, that there was no inappropriate contact or touching of men and women, and there was only one momentary embrace by two women.

--- Everybody was rejoicing in their own expressive way, however, --- there were also many members sitting quietly, some smiling, some clapping, perhaps some praying.

Of the men standing at the back (perhaps ushers or deacons), one waved, --- and a dear old grandmother dancing slightly in the isle.

These Church meetings are usually identified with the Apostolic or Pentecostal groups, which we can look at later.

This is not our style of worship as our Church is more reserved, but that is not meant to take away from this freedom of worship.

--- I am well aquainted with this type of service because I have worked with many Pentecostals and have been invited to their Churches, --- both the 'reserved kind' and the 'expressive kind.'

The fact that they were being filmed,did not bother them, so the person would have permission to film. Some even waved when it came on them.

--- The 'main man' perhaps wanted to perform because they were being recorded.

Rather than put too much in this first post, I will just mention one more thing.

I watched it a few times to observe the details, and timed it to indicate intervals when the praising could have ended, and the worship service could begin.

If you time it, you will find that at one minute into the video, --- I believe I heard the pastor say "Alright, you all take your seats now", --- is that not right?

--- But the 'main man' kept dancing ---.

Placid

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Hi,

To continue with some observations:

The people had perhaps been rejoicing for a few minutes before the video started because they were already at the front of the building.

During the first few seconds, the Pastor is walking across the platform, and, --- if you are timing it you will notice that at 1 minute there is a pause where the Pastor says, "Alright, you all take your seats now."

Usually, when the Pastor speaks, they will listen, --- the drum beat stopped from 1 minute to 1:20, --- but the 'main man' kept dancing.

--- It is almost like the Pastor concedes to allow a little more time, so the drum starts again, --- and the Pastor starts dancing briefly on the platform.

The second pause was about 1:50, when the drum stops and at 2:00 the organ can be heard briefly, --- but the 'main man' keeps dancing.

--- The drum starts again at about 2:20 --- (had he stopped drumming and the organ had started, it would have changed the tempo and led into the next part of the meeting.)

However, when we say :"freedom of expression," --- how better to show it than by rejoicing before the Lord.

--- The drum stops and starts again about 2:45, --- because the Main man' and others kept dancing.

The Pastor sits down on the platform, and the man gets a micriophone and they begin to say, "Halleluia and Praise Him," --- and the 'main man' keeps dancing.

--- At 4:05 the 'main man' wipes his brow --- though others are still in motion. --- End of video.

To check some history of rejoicing, we find that the Children of Israel were told to rejoice, as in Lev 23:

39 ‘Also on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep the feast of the LORD for seven days; on the first day there shall be a sabbath-rest, and on the eighth day a sabbath-rest.

40. And you shall take for yourselves on the first day the fruit of beautiful trees, branches of palm trees, the boughs of leafy trees, and willows of the brook; and you shall rejoice before the LORD your God for seven days.

Deut 12:

7. And there you shall eat before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice in all to which you have put your hand, you and your households, in which the LORD your God has blessed you.

12. And you shall rejoice before the LORD your God, you and your sons and your daughters, your male and female servants, and the Levite who is within your gates,

18. And you shall rejoice before the LORD your God in all to which you put your hands.

Note: --- In some cultures the people rejoice and sing while they are working together or walking or travelling. It is an indication of a 'happy heart' which is not too common in our culture.

The Psalms were the songs of the Israelites, and I believe it mentions in the Quran that "God gave the Psalms to David." --- Rejoice and rejoicing is mentioned some 60 times in Psalms,

In the NT there is much rejoicing, as in Phillipians 3:

1. Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord.

4:4. Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice!

5. Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.

6. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;

7. and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Also, rejoicing is taught over and over, as in these verses in1 Thes 5:

14. Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all.

15. See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.

16. Rejoice always,

17. pray without ceasing,

18. in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

19. Do not quench the Spirit.

20. Do not despise prophecies.

21. Test all things; hold fast what is good.

22. Abstain from every form of evil.

--- Finally for now, these verses, that are to be our temperment as Christians, in Ephesians 5:

18. --- but be filled with the Spirit,

19. speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,

20. giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,

21. submitting to one another in the fear of God.

(There is more, and perhaps you have observed other things, or have questions.)

Placid

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Hi,

To continue:

There are certain elements in this style of worship which are missing in much that is “caIled” worship, so that the glass is pretty clouded by our image of worship.

--- There is joy, they call each other ‘brother’ and ‘sister,’ --- there is a family atmosphere, as well as a party atmosphere. --- And there is love, --- however, love is not sensual as the world has portrayed it, but it is the inner love that comes (vertically) from God, and that expresses itself (horizontally) to others.

The women who were dancing with their heads down seemingly were bowing in their expression of worship to God.

There are three important aspects that people don’t understand very well and they are:

The Love of God, --- the Spirit of God, --- and the adversary, or enemy of God.

First, the Love of God:

The Jews were to be the loving nation that showed other nations what a loving God was like. Deut 6:

4. “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!

5. You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

6.. “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.

7. You shall teach them diligently to your children.”

Another verse says, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself --- The Jews started well, but eventually got away from loving and worshiping God and were taken captive by other nations. --- Eventually they returned to their own land of Israel and gained freedom from foreign domination under Judas Maccabeus.

The Romans then came to power and eventually dominated Israel, so, while the Jews had their religion, it was not a ‘loving faith’ that attracted others, but a religion of the rules of the OT, without the Love that God had instructed. --- So they had become a legalistic and unloving people.

--- When Jesus came, one of the first messages He gave to the public was, “The Sermon on the Mount,” Matthew 5, 6, and 7, --- where he updated many of the commandments to what they should be, rather than how the Pharisees were interpreting them.

Matthew 5:

43. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

44. But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you

--- Jesus said, “You have HEARD THAT IT WAS SAID, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy,’” --- This was one of the wrong things taught, ‘that you should hate your enemies.’ --- This is not in the commandments, and it would give you permission to hate, --- which is the very opposite of love.

So, Jesus said, “But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you.

What Jesus was doing was restating the law that was given in Deuteronomy, but had been ignored, --- so He called it a New Commandment, as in John 13:

34. A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

35. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

So, Jesus taught the Love of God, --- and He lived a life of loving, caring, and giving, --- and so the Christians were known for their love.

--- And in this video they are expressing this type of love in their worship to God.

--- When the ‘main man’ wouldn’t stop dancing, the pastor was patient to allow a few more minutes, actually 3 more minutes from the first pause, at 1 minute.

Placid

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To continue with, --- The history of: --- The Spirit of God.

In Genesis 1:2, it says, “And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters,” ---and this started life in the sea, which is where scientists agree that it began.

The Spirit of God was breathed into Adam.

The Spirit of God accompanied Moses and all of the Prophets. --- The idea of

‘Prophecy’ is ‘to predict beforehand’ as only God’s wisdom could do, and since the Spirit of God is the Vehicle that God uses to communicate with the Prophets, --- they could foretell the future, but not necessarily understand what they were saying, as it was for a future generation.

The term Holy Ghost was used in the King James Bible and some Churches still use it, as well as the Scriptural terms from it.

--- The caption of this video says, “The Holy Ghost got me,” --- so this is what it is referring to, --- being “filled with” or “under the Power of” the Spirit of God.

All the newer versions use “the Holy Spirit” so that is the common term today.

It says in Luke, and in Surah 3 and 19, that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she became pregnant and gave birth to Jesus, who had no earthly father.

He taught the disciples to believe in God and to follow Him. --- Jesus performed miracles and gave prophecies, and before He left this earth He said to them, “And greater works than these shall you do because I go to My Father.” --- The ‘Greater works’ would refer to the Apostles each being filled with this same Holy Spirit that was in Jesus, and they would go differend directions preaching and teaching the Gospel.

.

He said in John 14:

15. If you love Me, keep my commandments,

16. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, or Helper, that He may abide with you forever.

17. Even the Spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive because it neither sees Him nor knows Him --- but you know Him for He dwells with you, and will be in you.”

Jesus was referring to the Holy Spirit that was in Him, and which He would give to the disciples after His death. --- This happened in Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit fell on them and they were “filled with the Holy Spirit," and began to speak in the languages of the many Jews who were observing them.

From then on, Christians who were true believers could invite the Holy Spirit to come into their lives and give them the assurance of salvation, --- accompanied by a feeling of love and joy, and a desire to rejoice and praise God, and worship Him.

Now, back to the video:

There is much more to be added about the Holy Spirit, but it is important to know that this was the Holy Spirit of God that was giving this Church group their joy, and a desire to express it in praising the Lord.

Again, I say that in the video there was nothing indecent, immoral, or suggestive in their expression of worship, was there? --- So, these 4 minutes, taken out of the middle of a meeting, --- were really 4 minutes of their worship service.

Placid

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--- I want to continue with the Wonders of the Holy Spirit, who gives ‘love, joy, and peace, in the midst of our chaotic world.

In John 14 Jesus said:

15. “If you love Me, keep My commandments.

16. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—

17. The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

--- (The Holy Spirit dwelt ‘with them’ in the Person of Jesus, and would be ‘in them’ after the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2.)

25. These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.

26. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

Some mention in the Quran:

Surah 2:87: And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy Spirit.

2:253. Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the Holy Spirit.

Also:

42:52. And thus have We inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. Thou knewest not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it a light whereby We guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a right path,

--- (And Muhammad was given certain gifts of the Holy Spirit.)

The natural man, without the Spirit of God, does not have the understanding that comes with the ‘enlightening,’ and ‘teaching’ of the Holy Spirit.

--- Without going into much detail, these are the Gifts of the Holy Spirit that God gives to men, as listed in 1 Corinthians 12:

4. There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.

6. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.

7. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

8. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,

9. To another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,

10. To another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

11. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

--- So, God grants these Spiritual gifts to believers for the work that God calls them to do. Some believersmay only have 1 of the 9 gifts.

Muhammad was given two Gifts, verse 52, “You knew not what the Scripture was, nor what the Faith,” --- So, Muhammad was given the Gift of Knowledge (8), and the Gift of Faith (9).

So this is why Muhammad was a superior leader, --- because he was given the Gifts of Knowledge of the Scriptures, and Faith, to be God’s servant. --- And, “We have made IT (Knowledge and Faith) a Light," --- whereby God guided him in delivering the people from idolatry, --- to the return to worshiping God only.

--- Also, God gives personal blessings through the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide us, and these are called “The fruit of the Spirit.” Galatians 5:

22. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering (patience), kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23. Gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

--- So, these people in the video were showing Love, Joy, and Peace, --- and the Pastor was showing Patience in allowing a few more minutes.

And though, they were acting strange to some of us, they still had Self-control.

--- I am sorry this is a little long but the Spiritual life of Christians is not very well understood by others.

Placid

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Hi Red Water Cup,

You may think I had deviated from the video by speaking of the Holy Spirit, but not so.

I had asked earlier, “What was the meaning of the crutches hanging on the wall?

--- So it was necessary to show what it meant.

We noticed that the room didn’t appear to be a Church building, however, it was no doubt used regularly as there were Church pews, rather than just chairs set up.

Now the crutches on the wall would not just be somebody’s idea of decorative art, --- but the evidence that people had been healed,

Notice that two of the Spiritual gifts were Healing and Miracles?

--- Well, this would be a Church group that would pray for the sick, and they would be healed.

In the video I didn’t notice any sick people or those in wheelchairs, so these were people that REEJOICED IN THE LORD FOR ALL OF HIS GOODNESS, --- and this included the healing of the Body.

When you are one that has felt the touch of God’s Spirit in your body, as I have, then you continue to thank Him and praise Him.

--- There is more that could be said, but unless there are questions or comments, this will be all.

Placid

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Can you spot the difference:

between this:

and this:

The path to God is straight, people have perverted the truth.

and ofcourse christianity got one more to show :easter crucifixions re-enacting the alleged "crucifixion" of Jesus(as)!

_36652809_crucifixionap300.jpg

_36652808_womanap300.jpg

_36652814_nailsap300.jpg

photo_1303448842893-1-0.jpg

http://www.france24.com/en/20110422-good-friday-crucifixions-begin-philippines#

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God is very specific in how He desires His people to worship Him. In my understanding, this is not worship as God intends. However, I am not going to automatically doubt the sincerity of those in the video. Thank God for His mercy in dealing with humanity.

You still are not getting the point.

And before I spoon feed the concept to you....again, read the post before making any satirical attacks on me. You are either clearly not reading the posts or are clearly not able to understand the concept.

If you love God, you obey what he has sent forth and you worship him according to how he has told you to worship him. Not according to how you FEEL god should be worshiped.

This act of worship was INNOVATED within the Christian religion. This is not how they were instructed to show gratitude to God even within there own holy texts. Their highly regarded predecessors or those they hold in high esteem did not show gratitude, love or worshiped like this and their Prophet DEFINITELY did not show gratitude or love or worship like this.

This means this act of worship is INNOVATED.

And what is the nature of the any innovation? To bring something new.

Meaning, this act of worship was INVENTED by people. It was not what/how God asked them to show love, worship or gratitude even within their own revered texts.

Therefor, they are telling God how he needs to be worshiped, how to show love to him and how to show gratitude to him instead of following what God, there prophet and there revered predecessors did. (AKA those who new the faith BEST) did.

I can just as easily tell someone to run 12 laps around the field, do 20 push ups do 5 jumping jacks and hold your breathe for 10 seconds and that God loves this and this is how to show love to God.

As a Christian, I do agree with you. Much deception has entered into Christianity when it comes to worship. God is HOLY and so we should be so careful in our worship of Him.

Some of the worship seen in certain Christian churches was not only innovated within Christianity but to some degree in non-Christian faiths (one example being the orisha faiths in West/Central Africa). In the Scriptures, worship means to bow down, to reverence, to homage. Without going into plenty detail, the Scriptures have many examples inside and outside of the sanctuary (there is a difference) which give us principles to follow and honestly, there is no sanction for much of what can be seen in Christianity today.

Edited by iere
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It's their business.I dont think its like they reject normal worship. I think they do this because it feels fulfilling to them. Its not about how things look, its more about how they feel.

The other day a colleague of mine was arguing with me about Ashura and flagellation, saying why do you do it. I first told him its not a required religious practice in Shiism, the ulema advise against it, the people do it because they want to. Its a powerful ritual. He said you injure yourself, thats wrong and not allowed in Islam. I told him about Uwais al-Qarni (ra) who when he heard that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had lost two teeth in the battle of Uhd, took a rock and broke all his teeth, and when the prophet heard of this he said "Uwais is our dear friend". He said then if you believe this as true then you ALL must consider flagellation obligatory but many of you dont do it, i told him because its upto the people's choice whether they flagellate themselves or not. He said people could die so its wrong, if a man dies while flagellating it would be suicide. I said i though its would be an accident. He was like "no no its suicide, people have died, it should be stopped". I was like only a handful have died, that no real reason. He was like dont you have any concern for human life. I was like "Oh sure, when it comes to this issue you all become so concerned for Human life, all your concern for human life and misery is dedicated to his issue only". He said its irrational, like the Hindu Yogis who stand on one foot for decades, i told him that that Hindu may be feeling better standing on his one leg than you are sitting here. Who are you to judge him. Its a spiritual, thing and emotional thing, not a rational thing. You people have removed love and passion from religion, what would you know. He was like bro Im not convinced by your arguments, and I was like, you will never be because you are biased from the start.

Edited by JimJam
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It's their business.I dont think its like they reject normal worship. I think they do this because it feels fulfilling to them. Its not about how things look, its more about how they feel.

The other day a colleague of mine was arguing with me about Ashura and flagellation, saying why do you do it. I first told him its not a required religious practice in Shiism, the ulema advise against it, the people do it because they want to. Its a powerful ritual. He said you injure yourself, thats wrong and not allowed in Islam. I told him about Uwais al-Qarni (ra) who when he heard that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had lost two teeth in the battle of Uhd, took a rock and broke all his teeth, and when the prophet heard of this he said "Uwais is our dear friend". He said then if you believe this as true then you ALL must consider flagellation obligatory but many of you dont do it, i told him because its upto the people's choice whether they flagellate themselves or not. He said people could die so its wrong, if a man dies while flagellating it would be suicide. I said i though its would be an accident. He was like "no no its suicide, people have died, it should be stopped". I was like only a handful have died, that no real reason. He was like dont you have any concern for human life. I was like "Oh sure, when it comes to this issue you all become so concerned for Human life, all your concern for human life and misery is dedicated to his issue only". He said its irrational, like the Hindu Yogis who stand on one foot for decades, i told him that that Hindu may be feeling better standing on his one leg than you are sitting here. Who are you to judge him. Its a spiritual, thing and emotional thing, not a rational thing. You people have removed love and passion from religion, what would you know. He was like bro Im not convinced by your arguments, and I was like, you will never be because you are biased from the start.

It seems like you are viewing the disagreement with the "worship style" as an attack on the individuals. Not so, at least in my case. The question to me is whether or not such actions within the sanctuary fall within God's desire for worship. Should we allow our emotions to take us outside of bounds of God's definition of acceptable worship? Often charismatic Christians will say that when the "spirit" comes on them, they feel a certain way and they lose control. Yet the Bible states that one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control...

But that's really moving into another discussion...

Edited by iere
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