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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Can't Muslim Women Marry People Of The Book?

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Well dear

What is plain wrong is your naivety.

You mean to tell me that jewish teachings don't say that the jews are a blessed race above all humans.

That because of their past sufferings at the hands of rulers that they are a forgiven race destined for heaven as long as they don't go against a few commandments.

That they do not consider anyone but jews to be protected and qualifying under the laws of those commandments.

Isn't it true that you can only be born a jew.

If a person is taught such things can you imagine what kind of irresponsibility this breeds towards others.

These very beliefs of the jews are condemed in the Quran.

Im sure that jews are also people just like you and me. But I'll really belive it when THEY say it.

You say my words are bigoted. Perhaps. Does not retain from the fact that its true.

Are they out to get me. Well religions have been warring for centuries, they still are. Do we need a reminder of Bush's speeches.

Do I hate all Jews. Absolutely not, in this post I have only stated their beliefs not mine.

Salam

It is always better to read the Qur'an in context. As you quite rightly mention, Allah SWT has condemned many of the beliefs and practices of the Jewish people in the Qur'an. That, however, remains HIS exclusive prerogative. Believers are not required to point out the failings, faults and flaws of the Jewish people. Rather, they are called upon to "pardon" Ahl-Al-Kitaab - Q:109 - and to address them in the "best way" - Q29:46

Further, Allah SWT States in Surah 2 Al-Baqarah, Verse 62, that all those who believe in HIM, the Last Day and perform good deeds "need have no fear, and neither shall they grieve". Specific mention is made of the Jewish, Christian and Sabian communities. This Statement is repeated in Q5:69, a clear emphasis upon the importance of the principles which underpin it.

Thus, all those - whether of the Muslim, Jewish or Christian communities - who adhere to the Law, follow the guidance which flows from their Books, and thereby fulfill the conditions of Faith in Allah SWT, are destined for HIS Acceptance. Wa Llahu 'Alam.

The concept of the Jewish people having been elected as "the chosen ones" by Allah SWT is much misunderstood. As mentioned in the preceding passage, the Jewish peoples are obliged to adhere to the Law - as contained in the Torah. In respect of the Torah, they were required to preach and teach the Revelations to other communities, but many of them failed in this regard. Many of the followers of Jesus (pbuh) also failed. In many instances, Muslims too have failed in the task assigned to them. Here we might bear in mind that Allah SWT categorically condemns hypocrites and has promised them - not Jewish peoples, idol-worshippers or whoever - the "lowest abyss of the Fire" Q4:145.

In this way, Allah SWT "chose" each of the Abrahamic communities by conferring upon them Revelation. All 3 have signally failed to honour the trust reposed in them - except for a few. Now, we have people from these communities claiming exclusive rights to Allah SWT, whilst asserting ownership of Paradise. Those who disagree with them - even if they belong to the same communities - are consigned to the oblivion of Hell.

The purpose of Faith is to serve Allah SWT with humility and dignity. There are Orthodox Torah-true Jews who do fulfil that purpose, just as there are sincere Christians and Muslims. With especial reference to the latter: they are assigned the task of being "witnesses" before humankind - Q2:143. In order to excel as witnesses, Muslims ought to convey the Truth with respect, courtesy, compassion, generosity and above all else, with humility.

To reiterate: it is essential to read the Qur'an in context. Only in this way is the narrative concerning all communities and peoples properly understood.

Allah SWT is the Judge - so let HIM Judge: do not either pre-empt HIS Judgement or presume to know it. Wa Llahu 'Alam

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

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Honestly, I don't know what to think. I've looked into this and both sides have some pretty compelling arguments for evidence from the sources (Quran and ahadith). If one were to side with precautio

As an addendum to the above, even if the Christian woman is of the religious sort, that doesn't at all solve the real issues that will be between them. (Not to mention what is the value of her adhere

Hello kingpomba, The husband's role in Islam, in his household, is of great ascendancy and part of a woman's duties as a wife are submission to her husband's will (with the only exception being when

  • Advanced Member

Couldn't of said it better myself.

I am extremely impressed with your post and commend your tolerance as opposed to the other person who posted such misguided things.

I'm still reading this thread as well, so if anyone who hasn't posted yet has something new to contribute please do so.

-kingpomba

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Couldn't of said it better myself.

I am extremely impressed with your post and commend your tolerance as opposed to the other person who posted such misguided things.

I'm still reading this thread as well, so if anyone who hasn't posted yet has something new to contribute please do so.

-kingpomba

I was looking around a bit earlier. and i noticed an interesting comparison. Back in the early colonial days of the US, whites used to make rules such as, whites could sleep with black women while black men could not sleep with white women. Needless to say, this law was made by average men with this ethnocentric mindset who ever so slightly objectified women.

I suppose we can make of it what we wish. But its just something interesting to take note of.

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It is always better to read the Qur'an in context. As you quite rightly mention, Allah SWT has condemned many of the beliefs and practices of the Jewish people in the Qur'an. That, however, remains HIS exclusive prerogative. Believers are not required to point out the failings, faults and flaws of the Jewish people. Rather, they are called upon to "pardon" Ahl-Al-Kitaab - Q:109 - and to address them in the "best way" - Q29:46

Further, Allah SWT States in Surah 2 Al-Baqarah, Verse 62, that all those who believe in HIM, the Last Day and perform good deeds "need have no fear, and neither shall they grieve". Specific mention is made of the Jewish, Christian and Sabian communities. This Statement is repeated in Q5:69, a clear emphasis upon the importance of the principles which underpin it.

Thus, all those - whether of the Muslim, Jewish or Christian communities - who adhere to the Law, follow the guidance which flows from their Books, and thereby fulfill the conditions of Faith in Allah SWT, are destined for HIS Acceptance. Wa Llahu 'Alam.

The concept of the Jewish people having been elected as "the chosen ones" by Allah SWT is much misunderstood. As mentioned in the preceding passage, the Jewish peoples are obliged to adhere to the Law - as contained in the Torah. In respect of the Torah, they were required to preach and teach the Revelations to other communities, but many of them failed in this regard. Many of the followers of Jesus (pbuh) also failed. In many instances, Muslims too have failed in the task assigned to them. Here we might bear in mind that Allah SWT categorically condemns hypocrites and has promised them - not Jewish peoples, idol-worshippers or whoever - the "lowest abyss of the Fire" Q4:145.

In this way, Allah SWT "chose" each of the Abrahamic communities by conferring upon them Revelation. All 3 have signally failed to honour the trust reposed in them - except for a few. Now, we have people from these communities claiming exclusive rights to Allah SWT, whilst asserting ownership of Paradise. Those who disagree with them - even if they belong to the same communities - are consigned to the oblivion of Hell.

The purpose of Faith is to serve Allah SWT with humility and dignity. There are Orthodox Torah-true Jews who do fulfil that purpose, just as there are sincere Christians and Muslims. With especial reference to the latter: they are assigned the task of being "witnesses" before humankind - Q2:143. In order to excel as witnesses, Muslims ought to convey the Truth with respect, courtesy, compassion, generosity and above all else, with humility.

To reiterate: it is essential to read the Qur'an in context. Only in this way is the narrative concerning all communities and peoples properly understood.

Allah SWT is the Judge - so let HIM Judge: do not either pre-empt HIS Judgement or presume to know it. Wa Llahu 'Alam

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

Salam

Indeed the book of truth is just.

You argument is also sound

I also spoke about people with a specific mindset, if you did indeed read my previous posts.

Was Salam

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well, from what i was told, muslim women cannot marry outside the religion because they usually adopt the husbands lifestyle and habits such as drinking alcohol and eating pork which is haraam, and so the children will be brought up in the same fashion. Even if the muslim women sticks to her faith after marriage, her children may be more inclined to follow the life of their father because in some cases it may have less rules then Islam. However there are different opinions to this and this is just one of them.

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with the name of Allah... THE MOST BENEFICENT...THE MOST MERCIFUL...

slam...

Allah Almighty says in Holy Quran...

" Proclaim! (or Read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created― Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood. (al-Alaq 1,2) (3).

" He has created man from a sperm― drop " (an-Nahl 4).

so it explains that... the offspring are purely related to men...

and i think... kingpomba is the most genius person i observed until now...(i hope) YOU CAN NOW FIGURE IT OUT... that why islam prohibited women to marry ehlul kitab.... ( by relating... 'the influence' point)

see ya... :)

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For example, say, do you think that a female boss would marry to her male employer? I don't think so, because the female boss has a higher status compared to the male employer.

Here, where I live, this is common. Women choose their husbands exactly the same way the men do. Being a boss gives the woman a bigger chance to choose a good partner (in her point of view). Maybe you've heard of Alpha http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_%28ethology%29.

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The most important point is that islam is the religion of Allah and as muslims we submit to what prophet of islam and our imams have commanded u to do. Any agnostic, scientist, philosopher or thinker cannot even come close to understanding the millions of reasons why each law of sharia is a gift to mankind as its above human intelligence to understand the brilliance of Allah. As good muslims we submit completely to Allah. Muslim women who do not agree with submission to sharia will go to the same place in after life as do men and women from among the unbelievers.

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a million points were raised but to the OP in summary:

Both the woman and man Effect and influence eachother and their children to certain extent related to their level of authority and leadership.

the man has a manager and leadership role in the family so it makes his influence bigger and thats why you see in all societies its the girl that gets influenced and changes after marriage not the man. This is the human nature and distribution of roles.

now for Islam the main concern is reserving your religion and abiding by the laws of your lord so the ruling revolves around that aspect.

thats why in shia islam which pute the people in the following priority:

1) sunnies and other islamic sects

2) ahlulkitab and specially christians , jews and sabies

3) polythists and kuffar

for the first category shia Islam allows their woman to be married by a sunnie man but thats as far as it goes for the woman because going beyond that point is too dangerous for her ideology

But for a man he is allowed to marry a sunnie woman, ahlulkitab but not polytheists and kuffar and that represents where the line is drawn for the man, This shows that even the man can be influenced but to a lesser extend which allows him a further bracket up to the ahlulkitab

this is consistent with the reality and how men usually get influenced.

Mac ishac: the claim about the naskh (abrogation) of the verse s doubtful for me. there are alot of wild claims of naskh by many people who wanted to change the religion... in reality naskh is not a game where every two days a rule changes for no reason....

the way i understand naskh is not the actual laws changing but the situation would change due to time lapse or other factors where different laws apply

for example:

at this time using automobile is Hallal and good for optimization of travel and effeminacy but lets say we discover methods of Tay al Ardh (folding earth) and we can travel without the hassel or the pollution or the waste of the fuel and resources.... then in tihs scenario using the automobiles would becomes haraam and abrogated because it would fall under wasting and corruption .

but i read many claims in sunnie books like sayooti that abrogation was used like a method of politics and hypocrisy by the prophet , when he was weak he said the versus about being peaceful and respecting the nonmuslims and protecting them then when he became powerful the verse of the sword was revealed and abrogated 100s of versus about keeping peace with non muslims and not initiating aggression!!!!!

to me this stuff smells fishy and makes it look like the prophet used hypocrisy and this is against his famous attribute of truthfulness and trustworthiness

I think this abrogation slogan was used by many liars to white wash their crimes or to justify crimes of specific kings or to dodge the bullet when a claim of tahreef is shot at them

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This will totally sound blasphemous-- don't jump all over me for saying this-- but sometimes I wonder if it's a coincidence that most of our scholars have been men, and we have rules such as this one. We need more female scholars to get rid of any and all bias that may exist.

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I don't see why the Muslim man would be allowed to marry Christians and Jews and the Muslim woman not. I don't think the granting of the right to men over women to choose a spouse from among the People of the Book is very fair or Islamic. Because I believe it is permissible for men, I believe it is permissible for women. However, I think it is only natural for woman's family, Muslim or non-Muslim to be more discerning than the male's family because the woman's safety and freedom must be taken into account. So I think the marrying of a Muslim woman to a non-Muslim men should be approached more cautiously because it is the responsibility of whatever side the woman belongs to ensure that their female adherent is safe and protected more so than their males, who generally are able to protect themselves more easily.

If one doesn't believe that Muslim women should get married non-Muslim men, then they should also say it is impermissible for Muslim men to marry non-Muslims because if they fear for the woman from among their own's faith as much as they do, then they shouldn't put the People of the Book's women through the same ordeal that they aren't willing to put their own women through. Why would you say "Oh I do not want this Muslim woman to be tempted to become a non-Muslim by her husband," but then think it is perfectly permissible to have the Christians and Jews who don't follow Islam put their daughters through the same situation? That's cheating if you ask me. So I say let the women marry non-Muslims just as you do the men or don't let any non-Muslims marry any male or female Muslims at all.

I don't know the exact reason, only Allah(s.w.a) knows that. Remember what Islam means, that we submit our ideas and speculation and defer them to the Almighty when our ideas are different from His(s.w.a). This is the essence of religion. Having said that, I can still come up with a pretty good ideas as to why it might no be allowed (for muslim women to marry ahl al kitab men).

1. In Islam, it is the responsibility of the father to educate his children, in general, and see to their religious education in particular. The first part wouldn't cause much problems if he was ahl al kitab, since most kids in the West at least get their general education thru the public school system. The second part is the problem. Since the father is responsible for the childrens religious education, which religion do you think he would teach them ? If the women was a sincere muslima and wanted her children to learn about their religion from a good source, then she would be put in a position to choose between her children being misguided or divorce. This is not a position that any women should be in. Now you could say that they could agree before the marriage to send their children to a saturday school or something to teach them Islam outside the home. But these lessons need to be managed and reinforced by the father in order for the kids to be sucessful and obviously he wouldn't be willing to do it or would do it half-heartedly and with hypocrisy since he doesn't believe in what he is teaching them. So the four possibilities are only that either 1) The children wouldn't learn about religion at all 2) They would learn Christianity or Judaism 3) The parents would divorce or 4) They would learn hypocrisy from the father. None of these possibilites are good or acceptable Islamically.

2) In cases of Divorce, Islamic law is very clear that the father gets custody of children who are beyond the age of breastfeeding (older than 2 or 3 years old) in case their is a dispute over custody between the parents. So since mixed religion marriages have a high occurance of divorce, you would have a very good possibility of muslim kids being raised by a father who wasn't muslim. In case they live in the West, and the courts here most often give custody to the mother, then the mother would keep the children but she would be going against Islamic law. So you have two possibilities in the case of divorce, father getting the children and them being raised by a non muslim or the mother keeping them and then she is violating Islamic law. Neither of these two possibilities are good or acceptable Islamically.

So in the case the father is a muslim and mother is ahl al kitab, neither one of these presents a major problem whereas with the mother being muslim and father being ahl al kitab both these would present a major problem and would result in severe harm to the deen (religion) of the children and / or force violations of Islamic law.

It is possible that it is haram for muslim men to get married to ahl al kitab permenantly, as many prominent early alims stated in their books and this point has been addressed by br. macissac in his post. In addition to the reasons he stated, i will also say that most of the time, children spend alot more time with their mother vs. their father and so in terms of percentage, usually the mother has a very big effect on the childs beleifs and personality. This might be another reason and I would advise any brother who is thinking about marrying a ahl al kitab lady to think one, two, three times about it and consider all that br. macissac has said and also the above point before doing this.

In addition, I would also say that the main reason why muslim brothers even consider ahl al kitab is because of mahr inflation and the unreasonable demands of families these days when it comes to their daughters. I have yet to meet a muslim man who would prefer an ahl al kitab over a muslima. They do it out of necessity, usually after being rejected by muslimas or families of muslimas for non islamic reasons.

Edited by Abu Hadi
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please "saintly_jinn23"

do not let the fact that you're living in the west blind you from reality.

with all due respect,whoever you regard as "sheikh" that allows a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man should use his turban for firewood.i mean he should take off his turban and burn it.

as for stressing the question why it is not allowed,it is enough to even ask.i do not even think answers are required to answer the obvious.does the Quran allow it?the answer is no.

it is not true that a man would force his wife to become muslim than a woman would force a man

you cant force anybody into believing

it is nonsense

you can force someone into blind obedience but not into believing

besides, in non muslim countries where women are free and make their own choices a woman could easily stop her husband and tell him plainly: "no, i am not going to believe in islam which is illogical and degrades women and dehumanizes people and deprives the of their free will"

in fact, women are more persuasive and effective in talking men into doing something that men can

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That makes a lot more sense to me. Because one of the things I found online somehow implied that if a Muslim woman marries a Christian man somehow magically, the man will have much more influence over what his children believe, even when they are teenagers and can think entirely on their own!. That did not make sense to me at all.<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

Unless one parent makes a conscious effort to really push their religion on the kids there is no reason to assume the father *or* the mother would hold more influence. After all, there is no compulsion in religion and I think it is a much better and spiritually rewarding thing if you tell the children about other religions and they still come to Islam. It is why I have such great respect for converts, they looked at all the other options and Islam is the one they found. They followed a similar path to me, they looked at all the world's religions but they reached a different conclusion. Which is fine, different things for different people but i find it brilliant that they did that!

Maybe people might be afraid of what the above quote said in this situation but i do not think it is a good idea to just shut your kids off from the rest of the world and knowledge to ensure they definitely believe. I have seen many people baptized as Christians and raised as Christians, it was not something they ever wanted. It is just their parents chose their religion for them when they were born. These kind of people 99% of the time do not turn out to be very good Christians. The strongest Christians I have seen are people who make a commitment later on in their teenage life and think about it, "Yes! I do believe this". Maybe, even people who have some revelation later in their lives or think about it as adults.

Many of the religious people in the world (not only Muslims of course, many Christians i see doing this) simply believe in a religion because that is what they were brought up in. That is not very spiritually rewarding, if you actually think about other religions and come to Islam still, I think that is a much greater thing. I'm sure all the true Muslims in the community would rather have a smaller community of true believes than 1 billion people who believe it because that's all they've been told, if i was a true believing Muslim, I know which I'd choose.

Just out of interest, what hadith is this from? I would like to read some of the rest of that book.

Salam- I was raised Catholic, studied the Mormon faith, studied Christianity in general, studied Native American religions, and BRIEFLY looked into Islam (without any guidance-simply bought a Quran and started reading)etc...And came up at a loss:( It wasnt untill I met my husband through mutah and became exposed to Shia Islam and was given GUIDANCE about it and how to understand it, and what its REALLY about, that I decided to embrace Islam as my religion:) I am happy and confident with my choice:)
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The reason Muslim women are not permitted to marry men from amongst Ahl-Al-Kitaab (whereas Muslim men are given permission to marry from amongst believing Jewish and Christian women, Q5:5), is because women have well-defined rights under Islamic Law. For instance, upon marriage,

a) the husband is required to give dower; Q4:4

cool.gif he is obligated to provide for her financially,

c) is her protector and guardian; Q4:34

d) where marital difficulties arise, trusted mediators from both parties to the dispute must be appointed - in order to find acceptable settlements to them; Q4:35

e) where resolution cannot be found, dissolution of the marriage may take place - at the request of the wife; Q2:229

f) she is entitled to keep her own name, property, and so on.

Judaic and Christian marital laws are different: it is extremely difficult for a Jewish woman to obtain a divorce from her husband, though she is fully entitled to seek one. As for Christian women: Protestants now permit divorce, whereas the Catholic Church remains firmly against the "liberalising" of marriage laws, and thus, do not allow divorce. This is a matter which requires further research - hopefully, our Jewish and Christian brethren may give us the benefit of their knowledge in regard to these matters.

It is also possible that recourse to secular courts would become an inevitablity, if both parties to the marriage required mediation for settlement of disputes, or for divorce. In any case, since Allah SWT is exceedingly Protective of women, and has clearly laid down the parameters of just treatment of them, I do not think it is necessary to delve too deeply into the hows and whys about this particular prohibition or injunction. That Muslims trust in HIS Judgment and Wisdom is a given. Wa Llahu 'Alam

As I am a late-comer to this journal, I have not had time to read through the - doubtless - interesting and informative preceding posts. So if anything I have written here is a repetition of what has already been stated, then I ask the moderators to kindly refrain from posting this - thankyou.

As Salaamu 'Alaykum

Salam-This was an awesome post you made-I never thought to look at it from the angle you provided-well said!
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  • Advanced Member

with the name of Allah... THE MOST BENEFICENT...THE MOST MERCIFUL...

slam...

Allah Almighty says in Holy Quran...

" Proclaim! (or Read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created― Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood. (al-Alaq 1,2) (3).

" He has created man from a sperm― drop " (an-Nahl 4).

so it explains that... the offspring are purely related to men...

and i think... kingpomba is the most genius person i observed until now...(i hope) YOU CAN NOW FIGURE IT OUT... that why islam prohibited women to marry ehlul kitab.... ( by relating... 'the influence' point)

see ya... :)

Uh obviously you didn't do your research very well. You posted the translations of these verses that are originally written in Arabic. The word being translated here as "man" is naas äÇÓ which is a gender neutral term also commonly translated as "mankind." so don't try to make anything sound sexist here without knowing what is actually written down.

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Salam

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has give one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the Righteous women are devoutly obedient..." (4:34) - Holy Quran

Making the status of Men and Women clear over here...

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Couldn't of said it better myself.

I am extremely impressed with your post and commend your tolerance as opposed to the other person who posted such misguided things.

I'm still reading this thread as well, so if anyone who hasn't posted yet has something new to contribute please do so.

-kingpomba

the discussion started based on the assumption that quran forbids muslim women marring "people of the book" without quoting any relevant verse(s) from it.

1.The Qur'an (2:221) forbids believers from marrying the unbelievers.

2.The Qur'an (2:62),(3:110),(3:113-116),(5:69) states "People of the Book" consist of both believers and unbelievers.

3.The Qur'an (5:5) permits believing men to marry believing women from "People of the Book" while does not provide further guidance on whether believing women can marry believing men from "People of the Book".

this implies one of the two things

a. Believing women are allowed to marry believing men from "People of the Book" because everything is allowed except what explicitly stated to be prohibited and also taking 2:62 and 5:69 into cosideration.

b. Believing women are forbiden to marry believing men from "People of the Book" because if believing men are expressly given permission to marry believing women from "People of the Book", then believing women must also be given express permission in order to do the same.

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the discussion started based on the assumption that quran forbids muslim women marring "people of the book" without quoting any relevant verse(s) from it.

1.The Qur'an (2:221) forbids believers from marrying the unbelievers.

2.The Qur'an (2:62),(3:110),(3:113-116),(5:69) states "People of the Book" consist of both believers and unbelievers.

3.The Qur'an (5:5) permits believing men to marry believing women from "People of the Book" while does not provide further guidance on whether believing women can marry believing men from "People of the Book".

this implies one of the two things

a. Believing women are allowed to marry believing men from "People of the Book" because everything is allowed except what explicitly stated to be prohibited and also taking 2:62 and 5:69 into cosideration.

b. Believing women are forbiden to marry believing men from "People of the Book" because if believing men are expressly given permission to marry believing women from "People of the Book", then believing women must also be given express permission in order to do the same.

Is there more material, maybe Hadith that clarify between a and b?

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the discussion started based on the assumption that quran forbids muslim women marring "people of the book" without quoting any relevant verse(s) from it.

1.The Qur'an (2:221) forbids believers from marrying the unbelievers.

2.The Qur'an (2:62),(3:110),(3:113-116),(5:69) states "People of the Book" consist of both believers and unbelievers.

3.The Qur'an (5:5) permits believing men to marry believing women from "People of the Book" while does not provide further guidance on whether believing women can marry believing men from "People of the Book".

this implies one of the two things

a. Believing women are allowed to marry believing men from "People of the Book" because everything is allowed except what explicitly stated to be prohibited and also taking 2:62 and 5:69 into cosideration.

b. Believing women are forbiden to marry believing men from "People of the Book" because if believing men are expressly given permission to marry believing women from "People of the Book", then believing women must also be given express permission in order to do the same.

By and large, its a human nature thing.

A girl who is not really a Muslim will not particularly care all that much if a child of the womaan in marriage grows to be a good Muslim or dicides on being a good Baptist or a good Catholic or a good Methodist or a good Presbyterian.

And it is imperative that the woman produce a child who is to be a good Muslim throughout life, not "a good Baptist or a good Catholic or a good Methodist or a good Presbyterian" as eqally acceptable as good Muslim.

The influence of the mother is so all important. A mother has such an influence on which one the child later in life marries, not only as a 'forced' or arranged marriage, but just as things are here in our United States of America in the person agrown adult more or less tends toward. The Muslim mother of a child would put greater importance on the child finding themself as a Muslim, and on their finding themself with a Muslim spouse.

In our United States of America the "christian" community has so much influence all around us throughout all our lives: it is left to Muslims to be not so tolearant of the influence that surrounds us.

Islam is better than being "a good Baptist or being a good Catholic or a good Methodist or a good Presbyterian," better in God's Eyes and better in the wishes of a mother for her Muslim son or daughter in America or in Europe.

In this, a father's presence in the lives of the children at home may not be on a such an equal footing as the presence of the child's mother at home.

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. . . . of course, the woman who doesn't care all that much herself if she marries a good Muslim husband or not is not going to be as likely to raise in her home the very best of Muslim offspring to that home, and again, this, is the most important consideration. The wellbeing of the child.

The father can force the issue if he feels it is all wrong with the upbringing while women only work in more subtle ways. The best guidance for a child would not be a woman who cares very little about her own spirituality.

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Hey guys, this question has always been something that has puzzled me and i always wondered the answer, now that i found this place i think it is a good time to ask.

I understand that Muslim men can marry people of the book (christians, jews). I also know that it is frowned apon if they are outside a Muslim majority country but it is still allowed for them to marry Christians and Jews in certain circumstances.

As an outsider, it seems rather strange to me that the converse isn't true. I thought surely it'd be the same for women as well, Muslim women could marry people of the book under the same circumstances men could but i found this to not be the case.

I googled online to find some answers but most of the answers somehow implied women were less equal, less powerful or would have less control over their children than a man would in the relationship. I believe in equality very much and those answers didn't do it for me at all.

So, this is why i ask here, why can not muslim women marry people of the book, whilst muslim men can?

Just a couple things i'd like to point out before you give your response:

*I will not accept any answer that somehow implies women are less equal or powerful in a relationship than men. There may of been a time when this was true before the advent of womens rights but the Qu'ran and Islam is meant to be a book and religion for all time. So, any answers that somehow imply a man will have more sway over the religion his children decide to follow than his mother is unacceptable to me, also anything that says he can somehow frighten the woman or prevent her from following her faith. That might happen on the odd occasion but in the modern west where i live it would be a rarity.

It just seems strange to me that men can do this and women can't...

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*The evidence/sources/scriptures/reasoning i prefer you to use, in order of preference:

*Two most preffered*

1) Q'uran - Obviously this being an islamic problem, this should of course be the number one source. Also, every muslim sect also believes in the quran and theres no chance of it being falsified like the hadiths, so i hope you can understand why i prefer this the most.

2) Logic - I'm an agnostic, whenever someone has a question about what i believe, i don't have any faith or holy book to back it up on. I just present my arguments or what i believe using logic and reasoning.

*Hadiths are OK*

3) Hadiths - I'd prefer it if you didn't use any hadiths in your answer but i understand this is a Shi'a site and hadiths are important. Try draw them for the more reliable books (i don't know the word for this sorry).

*Try not to use these..*

4) I'd really prefer it if you guys didn't use the rulings of modern islamic scholars, because they are human and falible. Also, sometimes opinions can differ wildy between scholars. If you have to use someone that is a recent or modern scholar i'd prefer if they were a westerner. I don't really want anyone to just link me to a website with a pre-written ruling on it. These are the same rulings that didn't make sense to me. I want you guys to think about it and see what you have to say smile.gif .

Thanks for helping to answer my question,

-kingpomba

Look at it another way as well. some contemporary Sunni jurists, (Khaled Abu Al-Fadhl comes to mind), have allowed muslim women to marry People of the Book.

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Look at it another way as well. some contemporary Sunni jurists, (Khaled Abu Al-Fadhl comes to mind), have allowed muslim women to marry People of the Book.

Just a point here: Khalid Aboul Fadl isn't taken seriously by any sunnis I know.

It took me a fair while, as a convert, to get married but I still cannot understand why a Muslim man wouldn't want to marry a Muslim woman.

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Well brother i think the same thing, but once a molvi gave me the answer which fulfills the thirst of mine

He said, thats the same question WHY DOGS ARE NAJIS TO touch ?

the answer is simply HE (Allah) created and HE (Allah) gave me the order that Dog is najis. so HE is creator and ordered us that Dog is najis .............

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  • 2 weeks later...
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I live in a very diverse religious society so let me explain. Men are the ones that determine their children's religion. So if he is a christian and marries a muslim woman his kids will be christians. On the other hand if a muslim man marries a christian woman the kids will turn out muslims. Idk about other countries but this is mine. Its logical really, but i don't advice mixing because the kids would always he close to the mother and she'd raise them to be christians.

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the discussion started based on the assumption that quran forbids muslim women marring "people of the book" without quoting any relevant verse(s) from it.

1.The Qur'an (2:221) forbids believers from marrying the unbelievers.

2.The Qur'an (2:62),(3:110),(3:113-116),(5:69) states "People of the Book" consist of both believers and unbelievers.

3.The Qur'an (5:5) permits believing men to marry believing women from "People of the Book" while does not provide further guidance on whether believing women can marry believing men from "People of the Book".

this implies one of the two things

a. Believing women are allowed to marry believing men from "People of the Book" because everything is allowed except what explicitly stated to be prohibited and also taking 2:62 and 5:69 into cosideration.

b. Believing women are forbiden to marry believing men from "People of the Book" because if believing men are expressly given permission to marry believing women from "People of the Book", then believing women must also be given express permission in order to do the same.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَارَى أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ

5:51

In order to understand the Holy Quran, you cannot take verses in isolation, nor can you understand (fully) without going to the original Arabic.

In this verse, the highlighted part makes it haram for muslims to take Jews or Christians as their 'awliyah' (plural of wali).

The word wali in Arabic means someone who looks out for your interests, supports you, and protects you against enemies. It is someone who you rely on and someone you can trust with your secretes and your wealth. Obviously, when you marry someone, you take that person as your wali. This is especially so with the women, since the husband is the one who is obligated to support and protect her and the family. So if you looked at this verse in isolation, it would seem that all marriage to Jews and Christians is forbidden. Then if you look at the ayat quoted above, you will see that a man is allowed to marry a Jew or Christian women.

So the logic of the Quran with regards to this issue is, 'Marriage to Jews and Christians is not allowed at all' (5:51) except ' A muslim man to marry a Jewish or Christian women' (5:5).

BTW. this ayat (5:51) is the reason why many marjaa' do not allow men to marry Christians or Jews permenantly (zawaj tul nikah).

Edited by Abu Hadi
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  • 5 weeks later...
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The reason Muslim women are not permitted to marry men from amongst Ahl-Al-Kitaab (whereas Muslim men are given permission to marry from amongst believing Jewish and Christian women, Q5:5), is because women have well-defined rights under Islamic Law. For instance, upon marriage,

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يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَارَى أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ

5:51

In order to understand the Holy Quran, you cannot take verses in isolation, nor can you understand (fully) without going to the original Arabic.

In this verse, the highlighted part makes it haram for muslims to take Jews or Christians as their 'awliyah' (plural of wali).

The word wali in Arabic means someone who looks out for your interests, supports you, and protects you against enemies. It is someone who you rely on and someone you can trust with your secretes and your wealth. Obviously, when you marry someone, you take that person as your wali. This is especially so with the women, since the husband is the one who is obligated to support and protect her and the family. So if you looked at this verse in isolation, it would seem that all marriage to Jews and Christians is forbidden. Then if you look at the ayat quoted above, you will see that a man is allowed to marry a Jew or Christian women.

That is a political verse not a personal verse. That is for Muslims to have a muslim leader that adhers to Quran and Sunna of prophet and Walayt of Imams.

Here in west my boss is Christian so by your interpretation he is my wali and that just kicked me and many other Muslims out of Islam!

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يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَارَى أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُم مِّنكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ

Hm. Ya Ayyaha Allatheena, Amattooala Thaththakheethooy aLyahooydha Alyahooda waAlnasaurray AwooLeeya hamza...Baayoodauhoom awooLeeYa baaudauwaman yathawalaham meenkoom faena weird letter minoohoomeena Allaha La Yahhdeey ALquawooma AlthauALeemeeynah

Alright, sorry, just had to prove that I could. The convert can speak arabic, its official.

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