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Against oneself

Message To Malangs And Shirazis

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it is stupid to openly curse and abuse and use foul words on sunni sahabah leaders (the big ones). use tact u brainless wahabis.

imam sadiq curses u people like yassir habib and mujtaba shirazi and u foolish malang. fools!

shaikh saduq:

THE BELIEF CONCERNING DISSIMULATION (taqiya)

Says the Shaykh, may the mercy of Allah be on him: Our belief concerning taqiya (permissible dissimulation) is that it is obligatory, and he who forsakes it is in the same position as he who forsakes prayer. Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq was told: 0 son of the Messenger of Allah, verily we see in the mosque one who openly abuses your enemies, calling out their names. And he said: May Allah curse him! Why does he refer to us? He, Who is Exalted above all, says: "Revile not those who invoke (deities) other than Allah, lest wrongfully they revile Allah through ignorance" [6, 108] And Imam Ja'far in explaining this verse has said: So do not revile them, lest they revile your 'Ali. And he also said: He who reviles the friend (wali) of Allah (i.e. All) has reviled Allah. And the Prophet said: He who reviles thee, 0 'Ali, has verily reviled me; and he, who reviles me, has verily reviled Allah.

Now until the Imam al-Qa'im appears, taqiya is obligatory and it is not permissible to dispense with it. He, who abandons it before the appearance of the Qa'im, has verily gone out of the religion of Allah, Exalted is He, and the religion of the Imams, and disobeys Allah and His Messenger and the Imams. Imam Ja'far was asked concerning the Word of Allah, Mighty and Glorious is He: "Verily the noblest among you, in the sight of Allah, is the most pious" [49, 13]. He said: (It means) he who adheres most scrupulously to the practice of taqiya.

And Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, has described the showing of friendship to unbelievers as being (possible only) in the state of taqiya. And He the Mighty and Glorious says: "Let not believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, for fear of being killed" [3, 28]. And Allah the Mighty and Glorious says: "Allah doth not forbid you to deal with kindness and fairness toward those who have not made war upon you on account of your religion, or driven you forth from your homes: for Allah loveth those who act with fairness [60, 8]." "Only Allah doth forbid you to make friends of those who, on account of your religion, have warred against you, and have driven you forth from your homes, and have aided those who drove you forth: and whoever maketh friends of them are wrong-doers" [ibid., 9].

And Imam Ja'far said: Verily, I hear a man abusing me in the mosque; and I hide myself behind a pillar so that he may not see me. And he (Imam Ja'far) said: Mix with the people (enemies) outwardly, but oppose them inwardly, so long as the Amirate (imratun) is a matter of opinion. And he also said: Verily diplomacy (arri'a') with a true believer is a form of shirk (polytheism); but with a hypocrite (munafiq) in his own house, it is worship. And he also said: He who prays with them (hypocrites) standing in the first row, it is as though he prayed with the Prophet in the first row. And he also said: Visit their sick and attend their funerals and pray in their mosques. And he also said: (You should) become an ornament for us, and not a disgrace. And he said: May Allah have mercy on a person who inculcates friendship towards us among men, and does not provoke ill-will among them.

The storytellers (qassasun) were mentioned before Imam Ja'far, and he said: May Allah curse them, for they speak ill of us. And he was asked concerning the storytellers, whether it is permissible to hear what they say, and he said: No. And Imam Ja'far said: He, who gives ear to a speaker, has verily rendered himself submissive to him; if the speaker (discourses) concerning Allah, then the listener has verily worshipped Allah, and if he speaks of the devil, then the listener has worshipped the devil.

And Imam Ja'far was asked concerning the Word of Allah, Exalted is He above all: "As for the poets, the erring follow them" [26, 224]. He said: These are the storytellers.

And the Prophet said: He, who goes to an innovator (dhu bid'a) and gives him respect, strives towards the destruction of Islam. And our belief, concerning him who opposes us in a single injunction of religion, is the like of our belief concerning him who disobeys us in all the injunctions of religion.

http://www.sicm.org.uk/index.php?page=suduk/Suduk39

Edited by Basim Ali
Sorry, no insanely gigantic fonts.

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it is stupid to openly curse and abuse and use foul words on sunni sahabah leaders (the big ones). use tact u brainless wahabis.

imam sadiq curses u people like yassir habib and mujtaba shirazi and u foolish malang. fools!

have you heard of ayatollah khoei? well he said this about your precious sunnis and their peers:

ÃÞæá : ÇáãÑÇÏ ãä ÇáãÄãä åäÇ ãä Âãä ÈÇááå æÈÑÓæáå æÈÇáãÚÇÏ æÈÇáÃÆãøÉ ÇáÇËäí ÚÔÑ (Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã) Ãæøáåã Úáí Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) æÂÎÑåã ÇáÞÇÆã ÇáÍÌøÉ ÇáãäÊÙÑ ÚÌøá Çááå ÝÑÌå ¡ æÌÚáäÇ ãä ÃÚæÇäå æÃäÕÇÑå . æãä ÃäßÑ æÇÍÏÇð ãäåã ÌÇÒÊ ÛíÈÊå ¡ áæÌæå :

I say: The meaning of the mu’min here is whoever believes in Allah and His Messenger, in the resurrection, and in the twelve Imams Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã, the first of them being `Ali b. Abi Talib Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã and the last of them being the Qa’im, the awaited Hujjat, may Allah hasten his relief and make us to be from his helpers and supporters. And whoever denies any of them, gheebat against him is permitted, due to a (number of) aspects:

Ç

áæÌå ÇáÃæá : Ãäå ËÈÊ Ýí ÇáÑæÇíÇÊ æÇáÃÏÚíÉ æÇáÒíÇÑÇÊ ÌæÇÒ áÚä ÇáãÎÇáÝíä ¡ ææÌæÈ ÇáÈÑÇÁÉ ãäåã ¡ æÅßËÇÑ ÇáÓÈø Úáíåã ¡ æÇÊøåÇãåã ¡ æÇáæÞíÚÉ Ýíåã Ü Ãí ÛíÈÊåã Ü áÃäøåã ãä Ãåá ÇáÈÏÚ æÇáÑíÈ. Èá áÇ ÔÈåÉ Ýí ßÝÑåã ¡ áÃäø ÅäßÇÑ ÇáæáÇíÉ æÇáÃÆãøÉ ÍÊøì ÇáæÇÍÏ ãäåã ¡ æÇáÇÚÊÞÇÏ ÈÎáÇÝÉ ÛíÑåã ¡ æÈÇáÚÞÇÆÏ ÇáÎÑÇÝíÉ ßÇáÌÈÑ æäÍæå íæÌÈ ÇáßÝÑ æÇáÒäÏÞÉ ¡ æÊÏáø Úáíå ÇáÃÎÈÇÑ ÇáãÊæÇÊÑÉ ÇáÙÇåÑÉ Ýí ßÝÑ ãäßÑ ÇáæáÇíÉ ¡ æßÝÑ ÇáãÚÊÞÏ ÈÇáÚÞÇÆÏ ÇáãÐßæÑÉ æãÇ íÔÈååÇ ãä ÇáÖáÇáÇÊ.

The first aspect: Verily established in the riwayat, du`as, and ziyarat, is the permissibility of cursing (la`n) the opponents (al-mukhalifeen), and the obligation to do bara’at from them, to do much insulting against them, to accuse them, and to encounter (or, battle) them – that is to do gheebat against them – because they are the people of innovation and doubt (ahl al-bid` wa ‘r-rayb). Rather, there is no doubt in regards to their kufr, for verily the denial of walayat and the Imams, even a single one of them, and the belief in the khilafat of anyone other than them, and the belief in nonsense such as jabr and its like, necessitate kufr and heresy (az-zindaqa). And the apparent mutawatir Akhbar indicate upon the kufr of the denier of walaya, and the kufr of the one who believes in the aforementioned beliefs, and what is similar to it from the deviations.

æíÏáø Úáíå ÃíÖÇð Þæáå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) Ýí ÇáÒíÇÑÉ ÇáÌÇãÚÉ : « æãä ÌÍÏßã ßÇÝÑ » æÞæáå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÝíåÇ ÃíÖÇð : « æãä æÍøÏå ÞÈá Úäßã » ÝÅäøå íäÊÌ ÈÚßÓ ÇáäÞíÖ Ãäø ãä áã íÞÈá Úäßã áã íæÍøÏå ¡ Èá åæ ãÔÑß ÈÇááå ÇáÚÙíã .

And indicating upon it also is his Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã saying in the Ziyarat al-Jami`a “and whoever denies you is a kafir”, and his Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã saying in it also “And whoever professes tawhid accepts from you”, for it generates by the opposite reversal that whoever does not accept from them does not profess tawhid, rather he is a mushrik by Allah al-`Azhim.

æÝí ÌãáÉ ãä ÇáÑæÇíÇÊ ÇáäÇÕÈ áäÇ Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ ÔÑø ãä ÇáíåæÏ æÇáäÕÇÑì æÃåæä ãä ÇáßáÈ ¡ æÃäå ÊÚÇáì áã íÎáÞ ÎáÞÇð ÃäÌÓ ãä ÇáßáÈ ¡ æÃäø ÇáäÇÕÈ áäÇ Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ áÃäÌÓ ãäå . æãä ÇáÈÏíåí Ãäø ÌæÇÒ ÛíÈÊåã Ãåæä ãä ÇáÇõãæÑ ÇáãÐßæÑÉ . Èá ÞÏ ÚÑÝÊ ÌæÇÒ ÇáæÞíÚÉ Ýí Ãåá ÇáÈÏÚ æÇáÖáÇá ¡ æÇáæÞíÚÉ åí ÇáÛíÈÉ . äÚã ÞÏ ËÈÊ Íßã ÇáÅÓáÇã Úáì ÈÚÖåã Ýí ÈÚÖ ÇáÃÍßÇã ÝÞØ ÊÓåíáÇ ááÃãÑ ¡ æÍÞäÇð ááÏãÇÁ .

And in the sum of the narrations (there is that) the Nasib to us, the Ahl al-Bayt, is worse than the Jew and the Christian, and more contemptible than the dog, and that He, be He Exalted, did not create a creation more najis than the dog and that the Nasib to us, the Ahl al-Bayt, is more najis than it. And it is self-evident that the permissibility of gheeba against them is lighter than the aforementioned affairs. Rather, you have known the permissibility of encountering (or, battling) in regards to the people of innovation and misguidance, and encountering (means) gheeba.Yes, the ruling of Islam (i.e. being Muslim) has been established upon some of them in regards to some rules, (but) only in order to facilitate the affair (or, command), and in retention of the bloods (i.e. in protection of lives, and preventing bloodshed)

am i allowed to name the source of this info?

may allahs curse be upon the nawasib, and the passionate defenders and supporters of the nawasib

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(bismillah)

You know, all of that being said about Sayyied Khu'i ÑÍãå Çááå isn't to be done out in the open. He isn't saying go out there and just do la`an all over the place regardless of who's watching or listening. Your need to do la`an openly is getting a lot mu'mineen killed. Yes, many would still do it regardless, but we seriously need to stop underestimating how much fervor the mukhaalifeen seeing things get and how angry they become. The Imams (as) employed taqiyya so we must as well.

And no I don't think you should cite where you copy-pasted this information from :P it's called a refuge for a reason.

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Salaam,

It seems people have changed religion into politics. Just like the Democrats and Republicans taking opposing views but working for the same cause (to deceive). Can the same be said about the higher levels of Shiah scholarship? I do not know. I am just putting this out there as a possibility. Personally, I do think it has a high probability. For example: you have the Democratic stance of Waliyat al-Faqih, and then you have the Republican stance of the rejectors of today's system of Waliyat al-Faqih. One side plays liberal, and the other conservative. This way you get both words out.

Any solutions to the above problem? Perhaps a middle line, or independent party? Is this the middle course the Masoomeen talked about? I think so. That is the only way we will have change, I think. Especially if these two apparently opposing sides are working together, we all lose. What if both sides were products of the elite? You better realize that the elite know how many of the followers of Ahlul Bayt 'put on shades' and just take advice like a robot. What better way is there to deceive you? I do not know, but it seems plausible to me.

Edited by gogiison2

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And no I don't think you should cite where you copy-pasted this information from :P it's called a refuge for a reason.

:Hijabi: i thought as much!

if i know i am in no risk whatsoever of any reprecussions if i do lanat in front of salafis faces, must i still employ taqiyyah?

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(bismillah)

:Hijabi: i thought as much!

if i know i am in no risk whatsoever of any reprecussions if i do lanat in front of salafis faces, must i still employ taqiyyah?

(bismillah)

You may not be in any direct danger, but the Mu'mineen in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bahrain, etc etc are in danger. The internet isn't really a private place you know... Also doing it in front of people personally will only make them go tell other people. The hadith of the topic opener still stands by the way. The Imams (as) do not love those who openly do this. Some people couldn't keep their mouth shut during the Imams' (as) lives and there were repercussions for it cause word traveled around. One of the reason for the ghaybah and we being distanced from our Imam ÚÌá Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÝÑÌå ÇáÔÑíÝ, If I am remembering correctly, is because their "shi`ah" couldn't keep their mouth shut and divulging information that would get traced back to them.

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bro no one is going to get killed cos some spastic salafi read my comments on a web forum, there will always be *some* reason that they use to justify the killing of shiane haider karar. our shia have been massacred from the times of the imams until now, until his (atf) zahoor. lanat or no lanat they will be killed.

do you truly believe that if every single shia stopped doing any form of lanat, they would stop killing us? what else should we stop for them to kill us anyway?

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(salam)

There is no need to be so confrontational about this. If you “socialize” with Salafis/Wahabis, then you already have plenty of interesting conversation topics…(Salafi’s God having a corporeal body, hatred shown to Ahlul Bayt, them praising the killers of Ahlul Bayt, them engaging in other seemingly un-Islamic activities and etc).

Don’t get yourself dismissed quickly by being ill-mannered, rude and belligerent.

Learn to control yourself. You can easily send your lanat offline and in the privacy of your bedroom or better yet, do it in your heart.

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(bismillah)

(bismillah)

You may not be in any direct danger, but the Mu'mineen in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bahrain, etc etc are in danger. The internet isn't really a private place you know... Also doing it in front of people personally will only make them go tell other people. The hadith of the topic opener still stands by the way. The Imams (as) do not love those who openly do this. Some people couldn't keep their mouth shut during the Imams' (as) lives and there were repercussions for it cause word traveled around. One of the reason for the ghaybah and we being distanced from our Imam ÚÌá Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÝÑÌå ÇáÔÑíÝ, If I am remembering correctly, is because their "shi`ah" couldn't keep their mouth shut and divulging information that would get traced back to them.

it's funny, but those who use this argument always forget.....Seyyeda AlBatoul, Fatima-Zahra (as). You forgot that she (as) criticized in public Abu Bakr and Omar....^^

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(bismillah)

bro no one is going to get killed cos some spastic salafi read my comments on a web forum, there will always be *some* reason that they use to justify the killing of shiane haider karar. our shia have been massacred from the times of the imams until now, until his (atf) zahoor. lanat or no lanat they will be killed.

Videos go up of these zakirs who do these things on the mimbar and it gets Shi'ahs in Pakistan and other places killed. Yes, they will find some excuse over all anyway. But that doesn't justify what would make the numbers larger or the killings happen faster. Besides, direct command of the Imam [as] to not do this.

do you truly believe that if every single shia stopped doing any form of lanat, they would stop killing us? what else should we stop for them to kill us anyway?

I don't understand the relevance to this question. Who said to stop la`an? I'm just saying keep it where it should be.

it's funny, but those who use this argument always forget.....Seyyeda AlBatoul, Fatima-Zahra (as). You forgot that she (as) criticized in public Abu Bakr and Omar....^^

Criticism and la`an are two different things. She سلام عليها also had a reason and place that it was very necessary to make this known. Be academic and stuff, but public la`an just isn't that.

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam

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do you truly believe that if every single shia stopped doing any form of lanat, they would stop killing us? what else should we stop for them to kill us anyway?

Probably wouldn't eliminate elements of extremism but we will atleast be seen as the oppressed by history and sane people. Isn't that how Imam Hussain a.s revived Islam? Don't the Pakistani Malangs recite, "Islam zinda hota hay her karbala kay baad" (Islam's spirit becomes alive after every karbala)?

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Criticism and la`an are two different things. She سلام عليها also had a reason and place that it was very necessary to make this known. Be academic and stuff, but public la`an just isn't that.

Asalamou 'aleykoum,

Abu Bakr said: "I seek protection against the wrath of Allah and thy wrath (of the Prophet). Abu Abdullah Muhammad ibn Qutayba reported in AI-Imam wa's-Siyasa that Fatima said: "Allah is my witness that you both offended me. In every prayer I curse you and continue to curse you until I see my father and I pity you. "(Al Imam wa al Siyasa, pages 18-30, Dhikr Bayya Abu Bakr).

PS : sorry for the translation, I have the hadith in French.

Edited by Jihad-Fadak

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Sunnis have produced too much hatred against themselves. You cant expect emotional angry 'malangs' to suddenly become tactful rational people. You just have to keep advising them constantly and over time they will change.

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Probably wouldn't eliminate elements of extremism but we will atleast be seen as the oppressed by history and sane people. Isn't that how Imam Hussain a.s revived Islam? Don't the Pakistani Malangs recite, "Islam zinda hota hay her karbala kay baad" (Islam's spirit becomes alive after every karbala)?

bro anyone with any intelligence knows we are the opressed of history. even without lanat, they hate us for wilayat, they hate us for rejecting their caliphs, they hate us for not respecting sahaba...how many things do they have to hate us?

pakistan is a perfect example - our brothers and sisters do nothing, and yet they are butchered. are they being butchered because they do lanat? are they being butchered because i do lanat? no...they are being butchered because they are shia.

lanat is a source of thawaab for us.

Sunnis have produced too much hatred against themselves. You cant expect emotional angry 'malangs' to suddenly become tactful rational people. You just have to keep advising them constantly and over time they will change.

with extreme love comes extreme hate,

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Maybe not so true for other countries with Shi'ah populations but in Pakistan the problems for Shia e Ali (as) are noticeably increased during Muharram. If the issue was lana'at surely commemoration of Kerbala shouldn't bring out the hatred? Supposedly that's one thing ALL Muslims agree was the Supreme Sacrifice for Islam?

Shi'ah are more visible (read: vulnerable) during Muharram but in every city, town or village people know where the Shi'ah Mosques/Imambargahs/Centres are and there are plenty of other major gatherings throughout the year.

Also, Anjuman Sipah Sahaba (ASS for short) target Shi'ah professionals and, although this is a generalisation, I imagine Doctors and Professors etc. don't spend all day publically sending lana'at on people because of the nature of their work amongst other reasons.

I think lana'at is a smokescreen for sunni (read: nasibi) mullahs. Much easier to whip up a frenzy in jahil masses by keeping it simple (THEY CURSED THE CALIPH! THEY INSULTED THE WIFE!) rather than explain the schism and theological differences.

ALI

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bro anyone with any intelligence knows we are the opressed of history. even without lanat, they hate us for wilayat, they hate us for rejecting their caliphs, they hate us for not respecting sahaba...how many things do they have to hate us?

pakistan is a perfect example - our brothers and sisters do nothing, and yet they are butchered. are they being butchered because they do lanat? are they being butchered because i do lanat? no...they are being butchered because they are shia.

lanat is a source of thawaab for us.

I agree that it's a source of thawab for us, provided that we (shias) understand what the concept (of tabarra) actually means. But you and I know very well that the "lanat" we openly express/promote nowadays is also considered/used as a swear word (cuss) in certain societies or countries (E.g Pakistan). So as Shias of the Divine Authorities of Allah, shouldn't we use some common sense to figure that the subject matter has certain sensitivities to it and that we should be mindful of our tone/language?

In regards to your opionion that we are hated anyways, whether we cuss/curse or not, i kind of disagree. Islamic history as well as the study of human nature itself clearly suggests that mannerism (akhlaq) has a profound affect/influence on us (Human beings). So why not use akhlaq (as did our Prophet P.b.u.H and Imams a.s) to convince those Muslims (non-shias) or non-muslims who sincerely seek the truth but have no clue of the concepts/ideologies of the Shia school of thought?

Fi-Amanillah

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am i allowed to name the source of this info?

may allahs curse be upon the nawasib, and the passionate defenders and supporters of the nawasib

how dares you! u accuse me of supportin nawasib! u liar!

i give hadith of imam and u ignore it. u dont even speak about the hadith! wht do u think of theses hadith?

forget about the shia killing logic. how do u greet sunnis? "lanat on you nasabi my name is maula dha malang and i hate u nasabi and ur umar leader". u think this is good manner and u urine on muawiyah grave and thn tell us? u shame us. u act like wahabi

not all sunni are bad. some dont know truth , read u ilogical malang this hadith. read liar.

imam jaffar disagree with u again!

Also in al-Kāfī, Kulaynī narrates that Hāshim Ibn al-Barīd (Ŝāhib al-Barīd) said: “Muhammad Ibn Muslim, Abul Khaťťāb, and I were together in one place. Abul Khaťťāb asked, “What is your belief regarding one who doesn’t know the affair of Imāmate?” I said, “In my view he or she is a unbeliever.” Abul Khaťťāb said, “As long as the evidence is not complete for him or her, he or she is not a unbeliever; if the evidence is complete and still he or she doesn’t recognize it, then he or she is a unbeliever.” Muhammad Ibn Muslim said, “Glory be to God! If he or she doesn’t recognize the Imām and doesn’t show obstinacy or denial, how can he or she be considered an unbeliever? No, one who doesn’t know, if he doesn’t show denial, is not an unbeliever.” Thus, the three of us had three opposing beliefs.

“When the Ĥajj season came, I went for Ĥajj and went to Imām as-Ŝādiq (as). I told him of the discussion between the three of us and asked the Imam his view. The Imām replied, “I will reply to this question when the other two are also present. I and the three of you shall meet tonight in Minā near the middle Jamarah.”

“That night, the three of us went there.

The Imām, leaning on a cushion, began questioning us.”

“What do you say about the servants, womenfolk, and members of your own families? Do they not bear witness to the unity of God?”

I replied, “Yes.”

“Do they not bear witness to the prophecy of the Messenger?”

“Yes.”

“Do they recognize the Imāmate and wilāyah (Divinely-appointed authority) like yourselves?”

“No.”

“So what is their position in your view?”

“My view is that whoever does not recognize the Imām is an unbeliever.”

“Glory be to God! Haven’t you seen the people of the streets and markets? Haven’t you seen the water-bearers?”

“Yes, I have seen and I see them.”

“Do they not pray? Do they not fast? Do they not perform Ĥajj? Do they not bear witness to the unity of God and the prophethood of the Messenger?”

“Yes.”

“Well, do they recognize the Imām as you do?”

“No.”

“So what is their condition?”

“My view is that whoever doesn’t recognize the Imām is a unbeliever.”

“Glory be to God! Do you not see the state of the Ka’bah and the circumambulation of these people? Don’t you see how the people of Yemen cling to the curtains of the Ka’bah?”

“Yes.”

“Don’t they profess monotheism and believe in the Messenger? Don’t they pray, fast, and perform Ĥajj?”

“Yes.”

“Well, do they recognize the Imām as you do?”

“No.”

“What is your belief about them?”

“In my view, whoever doesn’t recognize the Imām is an unbeliever.”

“Glory be to God! This belief is the belief of the Khārijites.”

At that point the Imām said, “Now, do you wish me to inform you of the truth?”

Hāshim, who in the words of the late Faydh al-Kāshānī , knew that the Imām’s view was in opposition to his own belief, said, “No.”

The Imām said, “It is very bad for you to say something of your own accord that you have not heard from us.”

Hāshim later said to the others: “I presumed that the Imām affirmed the view of Muhammad Ibn Muslim and wished to bring us to his view.”[90]

http://www.al-islam.org/religiouspluralism/

Edited by Against oneself

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i really shouldnt tell you guys what i did to muawiyyahs grave then :unsure:

You already did on another thread and now you are reminding everyone of it. Clever boy aren't you. and probably as a result of people like you and others, his grave is now a mausoleum. Geo malang. hmmm.

Edited by A true Sunni

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Maybe not so true for other countries with Shi'ah populations but in Pakistan the problems for Shia e Ali (as) are noticeably increased during Muharram. If the issue was lana'at surely commemoration of Kerbala shouldn't bring out the hatred? Supposedly that's one thing ALL Muslims agree was the Supreme Sacrifice for Islam?

Shi'ah are more visible (read: vulnerable) during Muharram but in every city, town or village people know where the Shi'ah Mosques/Imambargahs/Centres are and there are plenty of other major gatherings throughout the year.

Also, Anjuman Sipah Sahaba (ASS for short) target Shi'ah professionals and, although this is a generalisation, I imagine Doctors and Professors etc. don't spend all day publically sending lana'at on people because of the nature of their work amongst other reasons.

I think lana'at is a smokescreen for sunni (read: nasibi) mullahs. Much easier to whip up a frenzy in jahil masses by keeping it simple (THEY CURSED THE CALIPH! THEY INSULTED THE WIFE!) rather than explain the schism and theological differences.

ALI

I second this post in toto.

Cursing publicly isn't much of a reason (though it is made out to be) Shia get killed by the lashkar of nawasib; they are killed for being what they are. In the previous years in Pakistan there was a deliberate attempt to obliterate Shia "cream", so to speak. As you mention, doctors, politicians, other professionals and people in influential positions were target-killed.

If today all Shia stop doing la`an publicly, the whipping up of hate would still go on, and Shia would still be killed just as they are killed now.

Having said that, I view public cursing with distaste; I don't do it.

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with extreme love comes extreme hate,

Moderation is necessary in all things. Diplomacy, polite debate and tact is the tradition of our Imams. We should emulate them instead of following our emotions.

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how do we educate shirazis to stop saying bakri instead of sunni?

Sunnis do follow abu bakr after all....please don't take it upon yourself to 'educate shirazis'. We are all Shia so don't refer to anyone in these labels. Did you know that some sunnis call Shias rafidhi? Maybe sunnis need to be educated first...

Edited by Hawraa29

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(bismillah)

Sunnis do follow abu bakr after all....please don't take it upon yourself to 'educate shirazis'. We are all Shia so don't refer to anyone in these labels. Did you know that some sunnis call Shias rafidhi? Maybe sunnis need to be educated first...

Except we embrace the title of being Rawaafidh. Our Imams said they were.

From him from Ya`qub b. Yazid from Safwan b. Yahya from Abu Usama Zayd ash-Shahham from Abu ‘l-Jarud (that) he said (that) may Allah deafen his ears as he had blinded his eyes (Abu ‘l-Jarud was blind) if he did not hear Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã saying (when told that) verily so-and-so has called us a name. He said: And what is that name? He said: He has called us the Rafida. So Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said with his hand to his chest: And I am from the Rafida and he is from me. He said it thrice. (Kitab al-Mahasin of al-Barqi)

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Sunnis do follow abu bakr after all....please don't take it upon yourself to 'educate shirazis'. We are all Shia so don't refer to anyone in these labels. Did you know that some sunnis call Shias rafidhi? Maybe sunnis need to be educated first...

education starts at home. if some sunis have bad akhlaq then shia of ali have higher standarrds. ur dum u contradict urself "We are all Shia so don't refer to anyone in these labels." u dont want me to call u shirazi but u callin sunnis bakri. we should call u takfiri cause u do takfir on other shias.

how do u greet sunni? do u say bakri to their face?

Edited by Against oneself

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Thank you for posting the Hadtih Dar'ul_Islam, I'm proud to be a rafidhi.

education starts at home. if some sunis have bad akhlaq then shia of ali have higher standarrds. ur dum u contradict urself "We are all Shia so don't refer to anyone in these labels." u dont want me to call u shirazi but u callin sunnis bakri. we should call u takfiri cause u do takfir on other shias.

how do u greet sunni? do u say bakri to their face?

You're right. We should have good akhlaq and if we say something which offends sunnis we should present our argument with logic. At the end of the day there is a big difference between Shias and Sunnis so we shouldn't be making out that there isn't. Thanks for pointing out that I'm dumb! I meant labels amongst Shias...i in no way made tafkir upon any Shia :wacko:

When one usually greets another person they don't say ' Hi Shia' or ' Hi Sunni' lol. When I speak with a sunni off course I don't say bakri to their face...

Edited by Hawraa29

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Thank you for posting the Hadtih Dar'ul_Islam, I'm proud to be a rafidhi.

You're right. We should have good akhlaq and if we say something which offends sunnis we should present our argument with logic. At the end of the day there is a big difference between Shias and Sunnis so we shouldn't be making out that there isn't. Thanks for pointing out that I'm dumb! I meant labels amongst Shias...i in no way made tafkir upon any Shia :wacko:

When one usually greets another person they don't say ' Hi Shia' or ' Hi Sunni' lol. When I speak with a sunni off course I don't say bakri to their face...

do u condemn mujtaba shirazi for doing takfir on sahikh bahjat?

if u dont say bakri to their face y u come on internet and use that word so much when sunnis read it?

Edited by Against oneself

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do u condemn mujtaba shirazi for doing takfir on sahikh bahjat?

if u dont say bakri to their face y u come on internet and use that word so much when sunnis read it?

I don't know the reason why he made tafkir on ayt. bahjat so I'm not going to condemn him until I do my own research. Secondly, I have never used the term bakri on this forum. For instance say that I did use that term, what is going to happen? Is this going to put Sunnis off Shias?

Do not seek the truth by means of men; find first the truth and then you will recognise those who follow it - Imam Ali (as)

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(salam)

(bismillah)

Except we embrace the title of being Rawaafidh. Our Imams said they were.

From him from Ya`qub b. Yazid from Safwan b. Yahya from Abu Usama Zayd ash-Shahham from Abu ‘l-Jarud (that) he said (that) may Allah deafen his ears as he had blinded his eyes (Abu ‘l-Jarud was blind) if he did not hear Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã saying (when told that) verily so-and-so has called us a name. He said: And what is that name? He said: He has called us the Rafida. So Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said with his hand to his chest: And I am from the Rafida and he is from me. He said it thrice. (Kitab al-Mahasin of al-Barqi)

Thank you for posting the hadeeth. Yes. We do embrace the title Rafidah because we reject batil/falsehood.

But also remember that to non-Shia, they are using an extremely derogatory and offensive label. And according to them, this is an ultimate insult because to them Rafidi==Kafir. They are also calling us majusi/fire-worshiper and followers of Ibn Saba. I don't believe in being magnanimous when our sect is attacked.

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how do we educate shirazis to stop saying bakri instead of sunni?

Ya Jahil! Give me a dalil (fi Al-Quran wa Sunna), to justify the term Sunni!

Ya Jahil! You know the meaning of the word sunni? Sunni= follow Sunnatou RasoulouAllah sawas....Ya Jahil, why you do not become sunni!

Ya Jahil! You know how the Imams designate the non-shia? Al-moukhalifyyne!

Ya Jahil! Why you do not follow the Imams (as), and therefore, use the term "Al-moukhalifyyne"!

Wa salam!

May Allah swt resurrects me with a-Rawafidh (ridouanouAllah ta'ala 'aleyhim)!

Edited by Jihad-Fadak

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Sunnis do follow abu bakr after all....please don't take it upon yourself to 'educate shirazis'. We are all Shia so don't refer to anyone in these labels. Did you know that some sunnis call Shias rafidhi? Maybe sunnis need to be educated first...

For somebody who adamantly denies she is Shirazi, you seem to quickly jump on the defensive.

"I'm not Shirazi, I'm Shia" you say. Are you ashamed of it? Or do you realize it just might make you look foolish after all?

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Ya Jahil! Give me a dalil (fi Al-Quran wa Sunna), to justify the term Sunni!

Ya Jahil! You know the meaning of the word sunni? Sunni= follow Sunnatou RasoulouAllah sawas....Ya Jahil, why you do not become sunni!

Ya Jahil! You know how the Imams designate the non-shia? Al-moukhalifyyne!

Ya Jahil! Why you do not follow the Imams (as), and therefore, use the term "Al-moukhalifyyne"!

Wa salam!

May Allah swt resurrects me with a-Rawafidh (ridouanouAllah ta'ala 'aleyhim)!

this is not how imams address sunis. be polite whn speakin to ordinary people. dont embaress us.

u have wahabi akhlaq. they say majusi/ sons of muta u say bakri/nasabi. u are both bad akhlaqi.

shirazis need lessons in ahklaq.

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(bismillah)

this is not how imams address sunis. be polite whn speakin to ordinary people. dont embaress us.

u have wahabi akhlaq. they say majusi/ sons of muta u say bakri/nasabi. u are both bad akhlaqi.

shirazis need lessons in ahklaq.

Yes I agree with this. The Imams (as) did address them with certain terms, as did our scholars, but we don't utilize these terms when talking to them or one something public where anyone can read (it may be Shiachat but it is far from a sanctuary of privacy). Akhlaq akhlaq akhlaq! This is what will be the da`wah tool to tashayyu`. I believe one of the biggest reasons a lot of people reject our beliefs and practices is by the horrible akhlaq our co-religionists have towards them. If we truly do tabarrah of the Wahabis and the oppressors, we should not emulate their akhlaq - we must emulate the akhlaq of Ahlulbayt (as)

Ýí ÃãÇä Çááå

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For somebody who adamantly denies she is Shirazi, you seem to quickly jump on the defensive.

"I'm not Shirazi, I'm Shia" you say. Are you ashamed of it? Or do you realize it just might make you look foolish after all?

I am Shia! We shouldn't put ourselves in labels like saying 'I'm shirazi' or 'I'm sistani' etc. Off course I'm not ashamed that I have the same ideologies as the Shirazi family. The only foolish person is the one who compromises our religion all for the sake of 'unity'.

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