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In the Name of God بسم الله

An Urgent Call For Help From A Sister

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Salam everyone.

Dearest Sister Angel Eyes,

Have you done istikharah?

This is more important than your father's disapproval and anger.

I see your father's view although the way you paint him as an arrogant man who thinks that he knows things better than everyone else in the community and is the most knowledgeable person in society. It seemed that in religion, none other is better than him.

You know, I think you should not marry an unknown from Pakistan. But it is not necessary for you to marry this young man you just met either. Broaden your horizon, expand your mind. And as a child, you must always put yourself in your father's shoes. Would you not want the best person to marry your own child?

How much do you know of this young man whom you like? Does he complete his prayers on time, how loyal is he to the the Ahlul Bait of the prophet AS? Are his parents lenient with the practices of religion? Is he willing to learn to improve himself in religion? Most importantly, does he like Allah? Is he for real? Is the face he is showing you genuine?

Judge him, how would you like if your son or daughter is like him? Can you handle him or her?

When you marry a person, not only you are living with him, you are in fact living with his ideas, habits, practices, parents and family.

People forgot this. You and this boy comes from different background. Yours are full of rules, his seemed to be easy going and nice. There is always a chance that you may in the future view this boy as undisciplined and nonreligious. It has happened to others before you.

Maybe your father saw all this in this boy. Or has infatuation you have for this boy blinded you to his faults?

Just another point of view.

Remember, whatever your decision you would have to live with it. It may be a life worse than death that you had wished before.

Almost everybody here knows how difficult it is to be objective. And nothing seemed able to help you. Now is Rejab. In a few days it would be the 15th. Since you are suffering, why not prepare yourself to do the Ammal Umm Dawood? The best person to help you is Allah..

Your father is harsh. Maybe because he is very, very, very scared of what you might do should he relent and be soft on you. Just your thoughts as displayed here shown that you like this boy earnestly and there is no saying "NO" to you. Do you not think that your father does not see that?

Good luck.

Wassalam.

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As Salaam Alaikum , I have read your concerns and also some amazing suggestions from different people. But honestly speaking i dont see any action from the Boys side. I mean i am sure he knows that

I'm always amazed how people mindlessly repeat the mantra that 'parents want what's best for you', as if there are no exceptions, or that they might want what's best but don't actually know what is be

ask the guy to send his parents to your home for 'rishta' as soon as possible no matter what. if he loves you he will send. if your father rejects him first time, he will send them 2nd time too.

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As Salaam Alaikum ,

I have read your concerns and also some amazing suggestions from different people. But honestly speaking i dont see any action from the Boys side.

I mean i am sure he knows that you are so much worried and wants to make things work. Please put some questions on your mind for him

1). If he knows the nature of your father, then he should have ask his family to visit your parents and discuss whatever his concerns are.

2). All fathers want well being and a peaceful life for their daughters, i am sure he must have thought a lot about it and maybe he must have experience some few things which he doesnt want you to encounter.

3). Please dont insult the another guy whom you feel is less educated from the guy you love.Who knows he must be a lion-hearted. (My Mom never studied in her life , but for every opinion i take her advice,as i am qualified and working as an IT Analyst).

4). Think practical , what can he offer you since as you told he also studying with you. (Most fathers think about it)

5). Do you ever knew why he was so angry with you, its not because of him , its beacuse of you. You betray his trust by not informing him well in advance about your relationshiop with him. If you had , this would not have happen. ( alteast you should tell your mom)

6). You need to decide , who you want to choos you 20 months love or 20 years love of your father

See, there is lots of ifs and buts to it, put yourself in your fathers shoes and see that he loves you so much that he is so much concern about your future.

The Moral....

Tell your father, whatever he feels right do it... and leave it to Allah.

a).If your guy loves you truly, you will never loose him.

B). Till the day of judgement , who will recieve blessing of your parents ....

Please revert back if you have any queries or suggestions

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(bismillah)

(wasalam)

How would your father get suspicious of the phone bill? Wasn't the boy calling you and it would show up on his bill? Your father is a sheikh and so many people look up to him for guidance. If they learn that his own daughter doesn't listen to him, the gossip and backbiting will sully his name. Beg your father to forgive you and if he doesn't, remind him to have mercy on you because Allah SWT is Merciful. Ask your mother to convince him. Seek his forgiveness no matter what the cost. Yes, he seems to be out of control by his reaction to your predicament, but you have to remember that his whole reputation is at stake and there are those in the community who would be happy about his status being diminished.

Edited by Hameedeh
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I'm always amazed how people mindlessly repeat the mantra that 'parents want what's best for you', as if there are no exceptions, or that they might want what's best but don't actually know what is best for their children. Parents aren't infallible, and can make mistakes.

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I'm always amazed how people mindlessly repeat the mantra that 'parents want what's best for you', as if there are no exceptions, or that they might want what's best but don't actually know what is best for their children. Parents aren't infallible, and can make mistakes.

I am sure .. haider you still didnt understood her father's reason... , think practical , Her father is a Sheikh... she understands what he is asking for and its justify... , he will get upset that her daughter didnt follow her rules, one top of that his daughter never told until he caught him by the phone bills...Good, he caught her otherwise where it would have ended ... and now she is crying a loud.. Please don't get in to any sob story...

And your last statement ... regardig "parents arent infallible". i am feeling sorry about however they have treated you, wether bad or good ... you cannot speak ill about them... Please take back your statement.

Edited by AliAsgharBusheri
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Salam,

Thank you all for your very valid points.

I've been thinking about this issue long and hard from every angle since this all began. I was pretty certain that I would stand by my decision but then when things were at their worst, I often questioned whether it was worth this turmoil for me and my parents, and I asked myself all the questions above. I've reached the point now where I truly can't make a decision because there are advantages and disadvantages in both situations, and that's why I began this post.

I did istikhara when my father stopped talking me, and it came out positive at the time. For now, I have decided to present my case to the mujtahideen, discuss the fatwa I am given with my father, and go with whatever their decision....hence I leave it with Allah and I ask you all for your prayers.

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Salam un Alaikum,

I write this in a state of complete and utter confusion, in the hope that someone will guide me to the best way out of this predicament.

I am a Shia Muslima from a reputable family, and have been brought up with strict religious values, which I too firmly believe in. I had never had any contact with any male, not even via email. I had always anticipated a fully arranged marriage i.e. not seeing/speaking to the guy before i was married, and to someone educated to the highest of religious standards, just as my father is. I had no problem with this, until 18 months ago, when during my course at university, I happened to meet a guy. He is Shia, 2 years older than me, who holds 2 degrees and a stable job, from a respected family, same cultural background and language etc. Straight away, I felt that he had everything I would be looking for in a potential husband. I was certain of this after a few meetings, and we maintained contact via phone, with the intention of arranging a meeting between parents, and always trying to remain within the bounds of shariah and not to fall into gunah. It was at this point that my father, suspicious of my phone bill, began to investigate and asked me what was going on. I decided to tell him the truth honestly and I did so - upon which all hell broke loose.

My father did not ask me a single question about the guy or what he does etc, intead he told me that I had dishonoured him, that I had no shame and was not worthy of being called his daughter etc, and that he wished that I had never been born etc. This went on for some weeks, in which I was unable to use my phone or leave the house unescorted etc. My father tried to throw me out of the house and when I refused to leave - I was faced with threats and actual physical violence.

My health has suffered, and my studies have been greatly affected. I tried to rationalise with my father, and I pleaded with him to at least meet with the guy, but he refused and his 3 main points were that firstly I had chosen this boy myself, secondly that my meeting him was haram no matter if it was in public etc and a marriage based on haram will never work, and thirdly I will set a bad example to my younger sisters. For 6 months, my father refused to be in the same room with me, to touch food that I had cooked or to let me eat at the same table as family. My mother was unhappy with me too, but is trying to allay the tension between my father and I.

My father and I are now talking, but he says that if I wish to go ahead with this or to maintain contact with this boy, he will have my nikah done literally the next day, in which none of my family will be present, he will go and humiliate the boy and his family publicly and I will never again have any contact with my family, extended family and the community.

The guy's family are happy with me as a choice but obviously they couldn't consider the above situation.

The alternative is to marry someone from pakistan, who will have next to no academic education and i will not speak to or see till the wedding. Although I might have accepted that before, now that I know what it is like to be with someone who is like-minded and understands you to the core, I couldn't face that idea. But the thought of hurting and leaving everyone I know, and also bringing humiliation onto my inlaws which won't exactly make life easy for me after the wedding, is an impossible one.

I am so completely overwhelmed that I have resorted to praying for death.

If anyone out there has any suggestions, I will be most glad to consider them, as I need all the help and prayers I can get.

Wassalam and thanks for your time.

Salam Alekum,

First, the practice of the parents arranging the marriage and the bride not speaking to the groom until the wedding day is a cultural practice and not an Islamic one. That doesn't mean that it is haram, it just means that it is not wajib to do it that way. You say that your father is a sheik, then challenge him to bring one authentic ahadith (you can post it here if he has one and I'm sure our members will scrutinize it for authenticity) that states that it is wajib for parents to arrange the marriage and that it is haram or makruh for a women to speak to her potential husband before the wedding day. If he can't bring one, then you should know that he is only recycling a cultural practice and making this the criteria for judging you rather than what Islam says. If we say that we are muslims, we must use Islam as the basis of our decisions and our actions based on those decisions and nothing else.

In fact, we have many authentic ahadith that show that Rasoulallah knew Lady Khadija(a.s) and talked with her and in fact he was an employee of hers before they got married so he obviously knew her and talked to her in the course of his work, while, of course, staying within the Islamic guidelines for decency and modesty. By the time they got married, he already knew her and knew about her character and personality. So does your father think that you are more pure than Lady Khadija(a.s), the mother of Fatima Zahra(a.s) and the grandmother of 11 of our Imams of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) ?

Also, he says that the relationship is based on haram and so it will never succeed. It is true that men and women (non mahram) are not allowed to have any familiar type of contact with each other, and this is a practice of our Prophet(a.s) and Imams(a.s) except in the case where the intention of both is getting to know each other for halal marriage. Even if they are intending to marry, there are also stipulations and guidelines, such as they cannot have physical contact with each other and cannot be alone together in a closed room or space and cannot talk about things that only a husband and a wife would talk about. If you stuck to those guidelines, then there is nothing haram in your relationship. If you were ignorant about some of the guidelines, then you both should do istighfar (ask Allah(s.w.a) to forgive you) and follow the guidelines in the future while you are still non mahram.

If your relationship went outside the halal, then you should sincerely ask Allah(s.w.a) to forgive you for that and resolve to follow all the Islamic guidelines in the future and also carry thru with that promise. At the same time, as long as you are not doing haram openly, your father has no right whatsover to abuse you or threaten you or cut relations with you. This is a big haram and since he is a sheik, he should already know that. I hope your situation turns out well. Salams,

Edited by Abu Hadi
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(bismillah)

(wasalam)

How would your father get suspicious of the phone bill? Wasn't the boy calling you and it would show up on his bill? Your father is a sheikh and so many people look up to him for guidance. If they learn that his own daughter doesn't listen to him, the gossip and backbiting will sully his name. Beg your father to forgive you and if he doesn't, remind him to have mercy on you because Allah SWT is Merciful. Ask your mother to convince him. Seek his forgiveness no matter what the cost. Yes, he seems to be out of control by his reaction to your predicament, but you have to remember that his whole reputation is at stake and there are those in the community who would be happy about his status being diminished.

This particular aspect I had considered, and it was this among other things that lead me to suggest settling the issue privately by appeal to a Marja. A sheikh from his culture would undoubtedly be disgraced by being seen to submit to his daughter or to have no influence over her. He need not be disgraced by appealing a difficult choice to an Ayatollah however, and by framing the issue in this way it could be settled without shaming him. This is ideal for quite a number of reasons which I daresay are obvious.

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Salam un Alaikum,

wt i think regarding ur prblm is tht firstly askd tht guy wt he said is he realy ready to marry with u and make comitment wd him tht he will gv u full support even after marige as well and wt i thnik is tht see ur future wt u think is gud for u but one thng for sure if u ll nt take the step thn u hv to be in hell with tht pakistani guy who doesnt hv any education or so on whc u saying go with tht guy by folowing full rules of islam and ask tht gut tht to persue his family members to maary u withuot ur parents and once the marige has done after few yrx ur parentx will forgive u bcz god has made thm with diferent sand :)but make sure do all inquiries regarding tht guty u like thnkx

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Salam,

Thank you all for your very valid points.

I've been thinking about this issue long and hard from every angle since this all began. I was pretty certain that I would stand by my decision but then when things were at their worst, I often questioned whether it was worth this turmoil for me and my parents, and I asked myself all the questions above. I've reached the point now where I truly can't make a decision because there are advantages and disadvantages in both situations, and that's why I began this post.

I did istikhara when my father stopped talking me, and it came out positive at the time. For now, I have decided to present my case to the mujtahideen, discuss the fatwa I am given with my father, and go with whatever their decision....hence I leave it with Allah and I ask you all for your prayers.

All i can say ... all the best.... and may Allah provide you with the right path....but onething i will end with a message .. Take care of your parents.. they need you now the most... make them feel proud of you... You are right now in an adolscent age .. i have been in the same situtation .. and i do regret some of my decisions...but all went well after that.,,

Take care..

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Salam un Alaikum,

I write this in a state of complete and utter confusion, in the hope that someone will guide me to the best way out of this predicament.

I am a Shia Muslima from a reputable family, and have been brought up with strict religious values, which I too firmly believe in. I had never had any contact with any male, not even via email. I had always anticipated a fully arranged marriage i.e. not seeing/speaking to the guy before i was married, and to someone educated to the highest of religious standards, just as my father is. I had no problem with this, until 18 months ago, when during my course at university, I happened to meet a guy. He is Shia, 2 years older than me, who holds 2 degrees and a stable job, from a respected family, same cultural background and language etc. Straight away, I felt that he had everything I would be looking for in a potential husband. I was certain of this after a few meetings, and we maintained contact via phone, with the intention of arranging a meeting between parents, and always trying to remain within the bounds of shariah and not to fall into gunah. It was at this point that my father, suspicious of my phone bill, began to investigate and asked me what was going on. I decided to tell him the truth honestly and I did so - upon which all hell broke loose.

My father did not ask me a single question about the guy or what he does etc, intead he told me that I had dishonoured him, that I had no shame and was not worthy of being called his daughter etc, and that he wished that I had never been born etc. This went on for some weeks, in which I was unable to use my phone or leave the house unescorted etc. My father tried to throw me out of the house and when I refused to leave - I was faced with threats and actual physical violence.

My health has suffered, and my studies have been greatly affected. I tried to rationalise with my father, and I pleaded with him to at least meet with the guy, but he refused and his 3 main points were that firstly I had chosen this boy myself, secondly that my meeting him was haram no matter if it was in public etc and a marriage based on haram will never work, and thirdly I will set a bad example to my younger sisters. For 6 months, my father refused to be in the same room with me, to touch food that I had cooked or to let me eat at the same table as family. My mother was unhappy with me too, but is trying to allay the tension between my father and I.

My father and I are now talking, but he says that if I wish to go ahead with this or to maintain contact with this boy, he will have my nikah done literally the next day, in which none of my family will be present, he will go and humiliate the boy and his family publicly and I will never again have any contact with my family, extended family and the community.

The guy's family are happy with me as a choice but obviously they couldn't consider the above situation.

The alternative is to marry someone from pakistan, who will have next to no academic education and i will not speak to or see till the wedding. Although I might have accepted that before, now that I know what it is like to be with someone who is like-minded and understands you to the core, I couldn't face that idea. But the thought of hurting and leaving everyone I know, and also bringing humiliation onto my inlaws which won't exactly make life easy for me after the wedding, is an impossible one.

I am so completely overwhelmed that I have resorted to praying for death.

If anyone out there has any suggestions, I will be most glad to consider them, as I need all the help and prayers I can get.

Wassalam and thanks for your time.

Salaam Sister,

One of the most saddest things our Muslim people (shias as well as sunnis) suffer is from Extremism. another problem is when they become too easy going.. both are dangerous..

one of the faults of your father was that he should have gotten you married at the age of 12 to 14.. its a critical age for girls.. No point in holding the marriage of the daughter to a nice young boy of 15 to 18. A sensible boy whose father is also a Maulana.. (scholar) and the boy is well mannered at that young age.. why not? at that age the girl does not have much mind of her own.. slowly she becomes independant type.. both do... girl and the boy.. when they are young.. you see potential both of them.. simply hook both of them up .. even if God forbid they don't like each other.. they are still young and can part ways respecting each other..

One of the best thing my wife did was that since the first day i was introduced to her.. she right away introduced me to her father .. i mean straight away.. I got interested in her with the permission of her father.. that made things a lot easier and smoother.. the father and mother had approved of me.. which with the help of Allah i had met.. and i also gave a lot of respect to them and even when i was a bit critized by them at times.. I took the critisim positively and accepted it without ego. They had put certain conditions which i had to meet before our marriage.. I had swallowed all my pride and ego because accepted all the conditions because the girl was worth it.

When i was younger about 10 years ago.. I messed up due to ego. The girl i liked.. her father was not accepting me and it was very frustrating.. they were not religious and were materialistic type.. things were not working out.. but I had yelled at the father and did not let him put me down.. and acted with ego.. I had lost the girl who i loved at that time unfortunately... due to recklessness in my personality at that time. I had learned a lot due to experience and after reading Nahjulbalagha and Quran.. I learned how to behave better and got myself self improved. So i don't mess up next time when the opportunity arises.

First of all.. if you knew that your father is so extremely careful about the social status of the family and very cautious and protective of you from the start.. you should have told the boy to meet up with your father once you noticed yourself that you like him...before you had exchanged phone numbers with... .. the boy also would have brought his family to meet your parents... behind the scenes you should always tell the boy that i cannot get to know you because i do not have permission from my father yet.. therefore, if you want my hand in marriage.. Win my fathers heart first. if your unable to do that.. then there is no point in getting to know each other and pointless continuing to talk to each other.

the fathers fault is that.. he let her daughter go out to get educated at a mix gathering college.. its totally natural to get friendly and say HI or HELLO.. to a brother who appears to be a good boy/ sister who belongs to the same religion and is potential for marriage..

One advice to you sister is that.. ITS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.. When we meet a certain boy or a girl... we think this is it!!!! this is the person for me.. just because he/ she is charming and has helped you opened up to him in a few phone conversations or meeting over coffee. Don't be gullable and naive. there is a lot of things which get involved for permanent marriage.

It seems that you have been raised in a sheltered away.. in an egg shell type of way.. I mean in an very extra ultra conservative society.. where you had not entertained yourself with friendships or mingling with males.. so it might be the first male who came along.. you thought this is it.. he is the best. when it might not be so..

when we want to marry.. (permanent marriage not muta) they are a lot of things come into consideration .. earnings of the boy.. can be prove it by showing income checks? can he show his criminal record? how is his family? if your family is sayed having a family linage connecting it to the holy Imams of the Prophet .. sometimes it means a lot to certain families.. they want to give their daughters hand to a Sayed only and reject non Sayed proposals regardless how good the proposal may be...

Sometimes they want to have give their daughters hand to a man who does not have much age difference and reject 10 years older guy.. regardless of how good he is.. thats what the fathers want sometimes.. sometimes they are fine with age difference if the boy is well settled and has a very good name in the society etc.

I know a few conmans out there who lie about everything.. one said he is a DOCTOR.. just because the girls father wanted a doctor.. and lied about his income, age, and got himself married to this young girl.. there are con artists out there as well who think to themselves that they are faithfuls but they are unfaithful believer hypocrites... must watch out for them as well... but these girls are not able to detect easily.. they even provide false references.. the fathers are alert about these things as well. but these con-artists even fool the father sometimes.. so got to be careful..

I highly recommend for all men and women to check the blood test report politely. I know personally a young lady who is Shia, who wears hejab and who pretends to be religious (due to family is religious).. but she is infected with dangerous blood related desease.. its not due to immoral behavior.. she got infected not through immoral behavior.... thats all.

be extra careful and enqire if the guy or girl gets themselves involved in Zanjeer Zani Ka Matam during Azadari (indo pak culture) and Qama ka matam (hitting themselves with swords on their heads) if he does so.. You must ask for a blood test report verification. the blood test report is a must these days. Aids, hepatitis and other blood related deseases are in the rise everywhere. this is for all youth..both girls and boys.

I highly recommend checking income proofs, property ownership papers, criminal records, blood test reports, education certificates, family background check, (Munafiq or sincere momin). atleast 10 or more references etc.

No matter how much the charming guy is.. sweet and religious and good.. If he had AIDS due to Zanjeer Zani ka matam during Azadari.. or any other reason.. no point in establishing and taking the relationship forward.

many concerns come into the issue when getting married into permanent (nikah). and its highly recommended i believe that the family is involved from the start in making this decision.. if your divorced by the husband.. at least its them to blame and everybody understands that you were not in Haraam .. it was a halaal marriage and divorce is also halaal.

there is a strong possibility that the guy your father chooses.. might be a sweet Pakistani guy and his father may know your father and your father may not his father.. and there might be a very nice bonding between the family in the future.. (you just never know.. Don't dismiss it before it begans). which helps a lot in the future.. if from the start the relationship began due to ill feelings.. and anger.. and grudge.. or hatred.. then it might not be a good idea to keep move the relationship forward.. (might be a better idea to take it easy and stick to your fathers plans). unless he is simply not interested in getting you married and making you wait for years and years and getting you old.. then that would be a different case..

If you like him a lot.. or he likes you A LOT.. HE HAS TO BE A MAN.. he has to bring his family immediately to meet your father and mother and work hard on it.. bring some gifts.... be extremely respectful.. and impress the father a lot.. the daughter is his baby.. they have a hard time letting go and they are very possessive... He has to meet your father.. take some beatings in the rings.. (without ego). win his heart.. please him.. maybe even resort to beg him after getting rejected.... he has to chase your father.. more then chasing you.. he has to try harder.. be aggressive.. find out if the father has financial issues.. he should offer.. its no problem if we spend all the money to get the marriage ceremony done in a very humble manner.. he must say that i will be extremely lucky and grateful to you if you give your daughters hand into my hand.. I will never forget the biggest thing you have done for me is by giving your daughters hand into mine.. always be grateful to the father.. always show high respect and love for the father in law.. and be at your best behavior.. (even thou some things you may not like about the father in law.. but still.. nobody is perfect.. you must understand that the daughter is his flesh and blood.. he raised her from a tiny baby and brought her up.. He must understand what it means to give away the daughter .. If he is still unable to win the fathers heart..he must understand the reasons for the rejection. but he can still try some other ways... if nothing works for him.. then, he should not have any grudge.. and he should not say.. O THE GRAPES WERE SOUR ANYWAYS... he should be like maybe i did not deserve such a nice girl after all. you and him should leave things up to Allah and RESPECTFULLY MOVE ON and KEEP HIS HEAD UP AND SWALLOW UP HIS EGO.. Allah may have a better plan for him and for you.. rejections are ego devastating.. there might be nothing wrong with him.. he just did not fit the criteria ..

the big mistake was that you should have from the first day told him to meet with your father once you have noticed the keen interest of his in yours.. or yours in him before getting yourself emotionally involved.... the interest for the holy union (marriage). Fathers sometimes get suspicious.. they think that why did they hide it from me.. why did not the boy come to me from the start? the answer is that these two just wanted to get to know each other through talking and then after confirmation of their feelings .. then introduce him to your father.. thats probably what was on your mind.. which can be accepted.. but, sometimes it is not accepted .. the parents get paranoid and alarmed.. (especially the ultra conservative ones).

the extreme conservative ones over react sometimes.. and go into a shock unnecessarily and paranoia. Its your fathers fault for sending you to the university (which probably you insisted upon) in a mix gathering where Shia boys and girls run into each other at the university.. a lot of religious people do not see any harm in this and are open minded.. how else the Shia youth going to get to get married.. unless they get to see each other right? I used to ask this question when i was younger.. it was very frustrating..

Don't prefer yourself that death would have been better. When Prophet Yousuf was getting attacked by a beautiful married lady.. he said, Jail is better then this sin. it is said that Allah asked him why did you say Jail? you could have wished for Prosperity.. Hence Prophet yousuf was jailed for a few years.. Be careful what you wish for.. =-) its all going to be alright inshallah sister.

Zanadine.

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Bismillah

Salaam 'Alaykum sister,

I'm terribly sorry to hear about your predicament. May Allah (swt) give you sabr and strength to endure through this.

You sounds like a practicing Muslimah, masha'Allah. Just know that in your life and in your marriage, you will be given several tests that test your emaan in extremely difficult situations, and it sounds like you are being severely tested right now. As someone who's been recently married (10 months) and had similar, severe tests both before and during my marriage, my humble advice would be this:

1) Consult scholars - speak to other ulema whose knowledge and character you trust, and explain the ENTIRE situation to them, and ask them what you should do. I believe this is preferable to just getting a fatwa from a mujtahid (although that could be of some value as well) and preferable to getting advice on this forum (although again, this can be of some utility). A local or national aalim that you have access to can guide you in your specific situation more so than one single fatwa can. If you don't know any such aalim, please consult with friends or community members who may be able to put you in touch with one. If you live in North America, please let me know, as I know of the trustworthy and knowledgeable ulema who can help people in these family crises.

more importantly...

2) Rely on Allah سبحانه وتعالى. Put your faith in God that God will resolve this matter for you in the Best way. Complain to Allah (swt) about your problem, not creatures. A brother recommended reciting Du'a Yastasheer to me in my difficulties, and recommended reciting it before sleeping - try this, it has helped me a lot.

Insha'Allah, all the best. Please keep us updated.

Edited by ash-shaheed
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I know you probably don't want to hear this, but it seems to me your father has a point. isn't a person's religiousness supposed to be the most important criteria when picking a spouse? if your dad does not think he makes the cut, then you should listen to your dad. there is a reason why Allah has made it compulsory (according to majority of scholars) to get your father's approval. sometimes girls get caught up...actually, a lot of times, they do.

Salams,

He would only have a point if, and only if, he could demonstrate how this boy has done haram and has not repented to Allah(s.w.a) for it. A boy or man approaching a girl or women with the intention of halal marriage AND without breaking any of the well know guidelines (listed in my previous post) is not haram. I agree, it is better to approach the father first,

but if the father is unreasonable and will not consider anything except what he already has in his own mind, do you blame him for not approaching him first ? If the father would have said 'NO' flat out with no consideration as to the boys or his daughters feeling and situation (as this is usually the case, except if the boy happens to be the one who the father had pre-planned her to marry) then what is the point of asking him.

Here is some information from the website of Sayyid Al Sistani(ha)

Question: What are the limits of obeying one’s parents?

Answer : The duty of a child towards his parents is of two kinds: The First: To be kind towards them by providing for them, if they are in need. To provide for their day-to-day needs. To respond to their requests that are related to their daily lives at a level that is normal and usual for a human being, in the sense that if he refuses to fulfill them, it would be regarded as “not being good to them” — and that would differ depending on whether they are healthy and strong or ill and weak. The Second: To behave towards them kindly, by not offending them in word or action, even if they are unjust to him. In some religious text, it says, “And if they hit you, do not shun them; instead say, ‘May Allah forgive you.’” This is as far as it relates to the parents’ situation. As for those issues concerning the affairs of the child himself by which he could offend one of the parents, these are of two kinds: The First: If the parent’s distress results from his concern for the child, it is forbidden for the child to do something that would distress his parent, irrespective of whether or not the parent has prevented him from it. The Second: If the parent’s distress results from of his own evil characteristics (for example, dislike for the good of this world or the hereafter for his child), this kind of distress has no bearing on the child, thus, it is not obligatory on the child to submit to this kind of desires. It becomes clear from this that, on its own, obeying the parents in their personal commands is not obligatory. And Allah knows the best.

http://www.najaf.org/all/index.php?l=ENG&c=q_a&keyword=&type=&to=QUE&page=9

* There is the problem, that has been created by some some families of would-be brides who make it difficult for prospective husbands. They spoil the chances of their daughters getting married by setting unatainable targets. They seek to appraise the suitability of the bridegroom against certain criterion that they deem befitting to their daughters. The result is that many a woman are left unmarried. This attitude, however, is not new.

- It has been narrated that Imam Mohammad al-Baqir (a.s.) received a letter from Ali bin Asbat, in which he asked him for advice on how best he could give his daughters in marriage, because he could not find the right men for them. This was the Imam’s reply, “I took note of your letter regarding the situation of your daughters. Do not dwell on your idea, May Allah have mercy on you, because the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) said: Whoever approached you with the intention of marrying, you should look at their character and piety. If these were acceptable, go ahead and give your women in marriage to them. Should you refrain from that, there shall be discord in the land and great immorality”.

http://www.najaf.org/english/book/4/inside/25.htm

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To the OP:

You think, that if u brought a fatwa from the marja, that your father would all of sudden say, "ok, its all good, go ahead with the marriage"?????

You sunk urself hard by not tellig ur parents the first time around.

Unless it was Imam (atfs) himself, then maybe ur father would budge. A Marja fatwa aint gonna do nothing as im sure ur father feels he has 'ownership' over you.

I really hope it works out.

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Salam un Alaikum,

I write this in a state of complete and utter confusion, in the hope that someone will guide me to the best way out of this predicament.

I am a Shia Muslima from a reputable family, and have been brought up with strict religious values, which I too firmly believe in. I had never had any contact with any male, not even via email. I had always anticipated a fully arranged marriage i.e. not seeing/speaking to the guy before i was married, and to someone educated to the highest of religious standards, just as my father is. I had no problem with this, until 18 months ago, when during my course at university, I happened to meet a guy. He is Shia, 2 years older than me, who holds 2 degrees and a stable job, from a respected family, same cultural background and language etc. Straight away, I felt that he had everything I would be looking for in a potential husband. I was certain of this after a few meetings, and we maintained contact via phone, with the intention of arranging a meeting between parents, and always trying to remain within the bounds of shariah and not to fall into gunah. It was at this point that my father, suspicious of my phone bill, began to investigate and asked me what was going on. I decided to tell him the truth honestly and I did so - upon which all hell broke loose.

My father did not ask me a single question about the guy or what he does etc, intead he told me that I had dishonoured him, that I had no shame and was not worthy of being called his daughter etc, and that he wished that I had never been born etc. This went on for some weeks, in which I was unable to use my phone or leave the house unescorted etc. My father tried to throw me out of the house and when I refused to leave - I was faced with threats and actual physical violence.

My health has suffered, and my studies have been greatly affected. I tried to rationalise with my father, and I pleaded with him to at least meet with the guy, but he refused and his 3 main points were that firstly I had chosen this boy myself, secondly that my meeting him was haram no matter if it was in public etc and a marriage based on haram will never work, and thirdly I will set a bad example to my younger sisters. For 6 months, my father refused to be in the same room with me, to touch food that I had cooked or to let me eat at the same table as family. My mother was unhappy with me too, but is trying to allay the tension between my father and I.

My father and I are now talking, but he says that if I wish to go ahead with this or to maintain contact with this boy, he will have my nikah done literally the next day, in which none of my family will be present, he will go and humiliate the boy and his family publicly and I will never again have any contact with my family, extended family and the community.

The guy's family are happy with me as a choice but obviously they couldn't consider the above situation.

The alternative is to marry someone from pakistan, who will have next to no academic education and i will not speak to or see till the wedding. Although I might have accepted that before, now that I know what it is like to be with someone who is like-minded and understands you to the core, I couldn't face that idea. But the thought of hurting and leaving everyone I know, and also bringing humiliation onto my inlaws which won't exactly make life easy for me after the wedding, is an impossible one.

I am so completely overwhelmed that I have resorted to praying for death.

If anyone out there has any suggestions, I will be most glad to consider them, as I need all the help and prayers I can get.

Wassalam and thanks for your time.

(salam)

praying for death is haram .. but understand what you mean .. often i also wanted to die

i think your father is wrong .. and may Allah be with you

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(bismillah)

(salam)

It is proper not to reject the proposition of a man who is religious and of good character. The Prophet (s.a.w) said: “When a man whose piety and character satisfies you proposes, then give her in marriage to him; unless you do this, there will be persecution in the land and great corruption.” [Reference: Minhaj al-Saliheen]

ينبغى ان لا يرد الخاطب اذا كان ممن يرضي خلقه ودينه ، فعن رسول الله (ص) : اذا جاءكم من ترضون خلقه ودينه فزوجوه ، الا تفعلوه تكن فتنة في الارض وفساد كبير .

( منهاج الصالحين )

Edited by Mahdavist
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salaams sister,

i am sorry that you have had to deal with this. My suggestion is to talk to your father calmly and explain the situation, emphasizing that you haven't done anything haraam because you wanted to uphold your families honor. Tell your father that you have been thinking of what you would like in a husband and you found a boy which you think might have what yo are looking for. Islamically, its the girl who chooses a husband and not the other way around, and the parents cant force someone on her, its a form of oppression. Recite Ziyarat Ashura because its helped me in many difficult situations. InshAllah things will work out for you and your family.

Also sister, please dont pray for death, Allah (swt) gives life and takes it away when He wants to. By prayng for it you are saying that you dont appreciate His gift to you, please be patient and seek guidance from Allah (swt) and His Ahlul Bayt (a.s) also speak to a religious scholar about this for further guidance, InshAllah things will work out.

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Bismillah

Salamunalaikum sister!

I am very sorry that this happened to you. Through my research i found out that your father is not exactly following what he should follow. The following text tell us how we should do in case selecting a spouse.

SELECTION OF SPOUSE CHAPTER 4.

http://www.al-islam.org/marriage-handbook/

The Shariah permits the intended spouses to see each other for the purpose of selection and also permits asking and giving opinions if asked (without it being considered as gheebat under certain conditions.)

We should never resort to deceive the opposite party or conceal a defect during the selection process. Such things can have serious ramifications if exposed after marriage

The school of Ahle-Bait (a.s.) has not left us to follow our whims and fancies. We have been taught the best method of selecting a suitable spouse. The most important criterion is piety or religiousness.

SOURCE: http://www.al-islam.org/marriage-handbook/

May Allah swt help you to come to solution.. This is a test for you. Dont loose hope and be strong. Inshallah you will come to solution soon. Please Recite AL AWALU (the first) as many times you can to get a successful conclusion in different cases. Those who recite this regularly encounter kindness and cooperation in their daily contacts. Inshallah. you will inshallah se The weight of praising God.

Fi Amanillah

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Salam, an update on my post above:

I tried every suggestion in this thread and received nothing but threats and insults from my father

Yesterday, the man I would like to marry met me and said that we have not left a stone unturned but it's like fighting a brick wall - and we can now no longer think of any other way. He says he would never like me to run away and leave my family as that would not give me any respect in his family or the community.

So I am helpless but yet I cannot let him go just like that, because we know we could have such a beautiful life together.

I can't give up but I don't know what more to do.

My heart hurts.

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Salam, an update on my post above:

I tried every suggestion in this thread and received nothing but threats and insults from my father

Yesterday, the man I would like to marry met me and said that we have not left a stone unturned but it's like fighting a brick wall - and we can now no longer think of any other way. He says he would never like me to run away and leave my family as that would not give me any respect in his family or the community.

So I am helpless but yet I cannot let him go just like that, because we know we could have such a beautiful life together.

I can't give up but I don't know what more to do.

My heart hurts.

Before I read the update I hoped there was some good news. It was not to be. I am sorry for the situation you are in.

Take a cue from what the guy said to you. He apparently isn't going to take the drastic step for reasons he mentioned. Either you understand this and let him go since nothing has worked with your father. Either that or you have to burn all your ships, colloquially speaking, if you two want to get married. It's a huge step and life won't ever be the same again.

It is for you two to decide what you are willing to let go in exchange for a life together. But whatever you two do, you must be on the same wavelength and take a decision together.

Edited by Marbles
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Salam

First of all keep 1 thing in mind that if Allah s.w.t is with you I mean he wants you to marry that guy then nobody can seperate you from him but if not then whatever you will try the result will be fail.

Try istikhara

Any how convince your father to have isthikara about you people see what comes in that.

Give your 100 % in prayers ask for help from Allah s.w.t surely he will help you.

If you can't convince your father atleast confuse him

Try to show the good attributes of that guy to your father make him understand that you are mature and know the difference between wrong and right

Tell him that you won't marry untill and unless you will not give permission and blessings.

Obviously your parents are more important then him.

try to show your father that tell him if you want I will leave him but atleast talk to him once

Meet to him once.

Atlast if Allah s.w.t wish you will suceed and if you are not then definately you will get the better 1 from Allah s.w.t at the right time.

Don't forget he is the beneficial the merciful.

Imam ali a.s

Jab dua aur koshish se kaam ne bane to faisla Allah pe chord do

Beshak wo tumhare haq me behtar faisla karnewala hai.

Edited by aly reza
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Salam, an update on my post above:

I tried every suggestion in this thread and received nothing but threats and insults from my father

Yesterday, the man I would like to marry met me and said that we have not left a stone unturned but it's like fighting a brick wall - and we can now no longer think of any other way. He says he would never like me to run away and leave my family as that would not give me any respect in his family or the community.

So I am helpless but yet I cannot let him go just like that, because we know we could have such a beautiful life together.

I can't give up but I don't know what more to do.

My heart hurts.

I am sorry to hear your recent update.

When you are fighting a family that are not very supportive and would not listen to any reasons then you are essentially trapped. He is right that if you run away you will lose the respect of the community and your family.

There is nothing much you can do here.

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Salam

First of all keep 1 thing in mind that if Allah s.w.t is with you I mean he wants you to marry that guy then nobody can seperate you from him but if not then whatever you will try the result will be fail.

Try istikhara

Any how convince your father to have isthikara about you people see what comes in that.

Give your 100 % in prayers ask for help from Allah s.w.t surely he will help you.

If you can't convince your father atleast confuse him

Try to show the good attributes of that guy to your father make him understand that you are mature and know the difference between wrong and right

Tell him that you won't marry untill and unless you will not give permission and blessings.

Obviously your parents are more important then him.

try to show your father that tell him if you want I will leave him but atleast talk to him once

Meet to him once.

Atlast if Allah s.w.t wish you will suceed and if you are not then definately you will get the better 1 from Allah s.w.t at the right time.

Don't forget he is the beneficial the merciful.

Imam ali a.s

Jab dua aur koshish se kaam ne bane to faisla Allah pe chord do

Beshak wo tumhare haq me behtar faisla karnewala hai.

Salam, my dearest sis

The above suggestion sound good to me, try it out

The situation is indeed very challenging, but you can go through it with Patience and Prayer!

Allah is The Best of Helper!

Oh my, almost every day I pray to Allah, O Allah! please help all the single muslim men and women to get married early!

So that they may protect their chastity easily and attain the highest level of spiritual perfection....

My heart bleeds to hear that so-called religious parents make marriage difficult for their children...So Sad... :cry:

While i'm trying my best to make marriage easy for them and trying to change the mindset of parents nowadays..

My dearest sis,

I believe that you are not a small kid who doesn't know what is right and what is wrong

I see you as somebody who is matured enough to think what is best for you

I trust you and pray that Allah will help you to make the best of decision

And yes, your father may have the reasons why he acted in that way, but truly it is not islamic at all, and i can see the reason why you don't approach your father at first, it's because you can predict what will be his reaction later on..

Yet, we do acknowledge that without family support in marriage, it's extremely difficult,

what can we do now is to pray that Allah will soften your father's heart,

And yes, i can see that your friend is a good friend coz he seems to be willing to give up you because he doesn't want you to face difficulty in the future though within his heart truly appreciates you

Sorry for my bad advice or recommendation i just quite upset to see the way parents behave nowadays....while we are struggling to save our youth from spiritual corruption by advocating them to get married, the parents seems to be oblivious of this and acting selfishly, thinking of reputation etc, :cry:

Even though you wish the best for your daughter, but at least consider their feeling and accept the reality that they are human being too, has feeling and wish to be respected too

Keep praying my dearest sis, and May Allah help you

As for me i will keep praying that Allah help and ease your difficulty and gives the best for you!

Salam

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Salam,

Fight the sheriff with mayor on your back :), I just coined this silly term.

I have not read the full thread, but here is the quick advice. It may work, it may not, but it has worked for me on multiple occasions.

Send an urgent, immediate, red flagged note to your marja', tell the whole situation in detail, tell the Marja about your dad's behavior, and ask your marja' to help you out and also ask your marja' for his dua'.

Trust me, I have melted mountains with this trick, our marajae' are more than alim, they are also arif and have lots of intuition to reach to the right conclusions. They will also quickly point out if your dad is imposing culture on you in the name of Islam and stuff.

Good luck but definitely go to that extreme, after all it is your life and you firmly believe that you are right so go for the rightest solution here.

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I am sorry to hear your recent update.

When you are fighting a family that are not very supportive and would not listen to any reasons then you are essentially trapped. He is right that if you run away you will lose the respect of the community and your family.

There is nothing much you can do here.

If we stop caring about the community and unjust family, people will start respecting us finally. I have always maintained that in these situations, the onus is squarely upon the family and not the individual wanting to get married. If I were in her position, I would go the last mile.

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Salam,

Fight the sheriff with mayor on your back :), I just coined this silly term.

I have not read the full thread, but here is the quick advice. It may work, it may not, but it has worked for me on multiple occasions.

Send an urgent, immediate, red flagged note to your marja', tell the whole situation in detail, tell the Marja about your dad's behavior, and ask your marja' to help you out and also ask your marja' for his dua'.

Trust me, I have melted mountains with this trick, our marajae' are more than alim, they are also arif and have lots of intuition to reach to the right conclusions. They will also quickly point out if your dad is imposing culture on you in the name of Islam and stuff.

Good luck but definitely go to that extreme, after all it is your life and you firmly believe that you are right so go for the rightest solution here.

I know this is irrelevant but wow, whose your marja and what means of communication do you use. I mean i get an answer after weeks through email and i am not entirely sure even reps would be willing to send an immed message. You are one lucky person.

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how are you so emotionally attached to this man if you (and some others in this forum) believe you haven't strayed into the wrong in the nature of your contact with this non-mahram? i sense a stubbornness here, as if you came here wanting justification for your actions. you would not be so adamant about him if you had remained on the side of halal in your past interactions. It is a fine line, and no one knows the situation better than you. remember even if your father has wronged you, it does not affect any wrong you have done.

...now how did you react to the above criticism? that will tell you if your mind is clouded with emotions.

remember you cannot achieve good through evil means.

you need to acknowledge whether you have gone wrong somewhere, so that you can ask for forgiveness before asking Him for help and guidance. the ability to repent is a blessing in itself especially when we are blind to our mistakes and our desires overcome our reasoning

forget everyone else and base any decision on what would please God. Its funny how we tell others how hazrat Fatima (a.s.) and hazrat Zainab (a.s.) are our role models and we name our daughters after them in the hope of emulation, yet in our own matters we treat them as mere historical figures.

if you are helpless to do anything and he is ready to give up in your difficult situation, why prolong it? you should be the one to back off if he is not respectful/strong enough to do so.

(regarding the future, maybe your father will respect you more and now understand that his plans for you are not acceptable to you)

know that Allah is the best of planners, we think we know whats best for us but only He knows. It is a beautifully liberating feeling to rely on Him alone for your affairs. Do you think He will not deliver if you do that? Don't despair, your Lord is the Most Kind!

may Allah grant us the tawfiq and strength to fight our own nafs. However this story ends, inshaAllah it is for the best for both of you whether together or not.

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I am Shia myself but I can't say that I am very religious so I am not sure how you will respond to my suggestions. I truly feel for you as I am in a similar, yet altogether a different situation. I agree that your parents are important but I think in the matter of marriage the guy and the girl have a greater say than our parents. I believe if parents' consent was so important in marriage, Allah SWT would have made it obligatory for the parents to say 'kabool hai' as well during nikkah.

I don't think you have done anything wrong here. From what I have read, it appears as if your father is more concerned about his reputation than your future or your well-being. I think you should tell your father that if he doesn't agree to the boy you have chosen for yourself, you won't marry anyone else either.

One more thing I should mention, you said you did istakfarah and that it was a yes. As far as I know when you do an istakfarah you MUST follow it - no ifs or buts. If it is a yes, you should marry the guy because I have heard that when people do istakfarah's and don't follow them they always have regrets.

What do the boy's parents say? Are they willing do their son's nikkah without the presence of your family?

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Salams.

I know that it is a sin to despair but I find myself constantly overwhelmed with thoughts of suicide despite taking antidepressants etc. I am frightened that one day I won't be able to stop myself.

I was in hospital last week as i am constantly ill. I have my final uni exams in a few weeks but my mind is a mess.

It hurts me that my family, who I have worked so hard to please, would rather I was dead than for me to be truly happy, just for the sake of what people might say. I coped with it for 2 year but now that the guy and his family are faltering I feel so helpless.

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