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In the Name of God بسم الله

God's Justice

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(bismillah)

Allahuma Salli 'ala Muhammadin Wa Ali-Muhammad.

(salam)

I was in a discussion the other day with a friend, and we got into the topic of God's Justice.

Me being a shia told her that God is Just. She stopped me right there and asked "Why does God have to be just??".

Now, from a religious perspective, if God wasn't just, he wouldn't have sent messengers and books, God wouldn't have introduced the principle of Reward for Good deeds and punishment for evil deeds etc..

But, how do you explain God's justice to an atheist who doesn't even believe in God's existence, let alone God's messengers and books?

I remember I was in a Fiqh class ages ago, and the Sheikh was explaining God's Justice in our usool.. The problem is when a long period of time passes without ever revisitng or reflecting upon stuff that you've learned in the past, you tend to forget them and just take them for granted. That was my mistake in this situation. I coud not answer her question adequately.

Anyway, I guess the main philosophical/Fiqhi question is, how can we assertain that, if there is a creator, then it automatically means that he also has to be Just? Or rather, does God HAVE TO BE Just? Is it connected directly with The Creator's nature? Or is it something that The Creator Of All has decreed upon himself to be?

(wasalam)

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(bismillah)

Allahuma Salli 'ala Muhammadin Wa Ali-Muhammad.

(salam)

I was in a discussion the other day with a friend, and we got into the topic of God's Justice.

Me being a shia told her that God is Just. She stopped me right there and asked "Why does God have to be just??".

Now, from a religious perspective, if God wasn't just, he wouldn't have sent messengers and books, God wouldn't have introduced the principle of Reward for Good deeds and punishment for evil deeds etc..

But, how do you explain God's justice to an atheist who doesn't even believe in God's existence, let alone God's messengers and books?

I remember I was in a Fiqh class ages ago, and the Sheikh was explaining God's Justice in our usool.. The problem is when a long period of time passes without ever revisitng or reflecting upon stuff that you've learned in the past, you tend to forget them and just take them for granted. That was my mistake in this situation. I coud not answer her question adequately.

Anyway, I guess the main philosophical/Fiqhi question is, how can we assertain that, if there is a creator, then it automatically means that he also has to be Just? Or rather, does God HAVE TO BE Just? Is it connected directly with The Creator's nature? Or is it something that The Creator Of All has decreed upon himself to be?

(wasalam)

Well, im not quite sure how to answer your specific question, but i will say this. As a former non believer and still a non believer with respect to certain Gods, when you mention things like "a just God", the problem of evil immediately comes to mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

Then beyond that, often people refer to Shaitan and how he was defiant toward Adam and Eve in the story of how sin came to be, which would explain how God can be just while still having created shaitan.

But then, when this happens, you dwelve into biology talking about Adam and Eve, and by that time, most people have left their realm of understanding.

So, i would recommend that, if you want to discuss "justice" and "God", i would recommend looking into things like the problem of evil, and evolution, and figure out ways of tackling the discussion.

You should check out http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/forum/6-philosophy-atheismtheism-other-interfaith-dialogue/

There are a few discussions on justice, as well as my own topic on evolution, and there is much talk of how the two are related etc etc. The discussion of a "Just God", goes a bit beyond the scope of what scripture alone works with.

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(bismillah)

Allahuma Salli 'ala Muhammadin Wa Ali-Muhammad.

(salam)

(wasalam)

In order to properly respond and defeat atheists in debates and discussions, you need to fully understand the atheists positions. This means, you need to entertain their ideas and see if they make sense to you. It doesnt matter how many islamic books you read, it wont matter unless youre certain that you understand the ins and outs of the opposition.

If you cant properly respond to a question of "is God just", and you cant respond to the discussion, it demonstrates that you cant adequatly support your own belief, and if this is true, then for this particular topic, you should be on the side of the non believer, so instead of saying

"But, how do you explain God's justice to an atheist who doesn't even believe in God's existence, let alone God's messengers and books?"

You should be saying

How can I explain Gods justice to myself?

Which means then, you would most likely want to look into proofs for "Gods messengers and books", and thus in tern you could discuss "Justice and God" after you establish your prior proofs.

In summary of this post and my last, this question of yours cant simply be answered in a post or 2, nor can it be answered in any single book. If you want to properly be able to work with the subject, youre going to need to break the concept down into various fields of understanding, and you will have to analyse each field independently of your own opinions. Which means you should look into things like Hume and the problem of evil, evolutionary studies, scripture of the Quran and hadith, the credibility and origins of Gods messengers and their books, and you should look into all of these subjects through the perspective of various kinds of believers and non believers. and ultimately the subject of a "Just God" should be clear.

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Greatness has an absolute objective source to be real and true.

All level of greatness must have a basis.

Ultimate greatness thus must exist.

Being perfectly just is greater then being unjust.

Thus Ultimate Greatness must be ultimately just.

this is a weak and shafty version of what is being discussed in another topic ive created and already mentioned above, and its just not that simple

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