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In the Name of God بسم الله

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7 hours ago, Wared said:

In Islam we believe that there were more than one Adam, by that It means Allah created more humans than you can count, we aren't the first humans in the Earth. 

Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى knows that very well!

Where does the Quran say so?

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Questions such as: What is the point of theory of Evolution? Are neglected and are not encouraged. For the answer proves that it is pointless. Academic Scholars and Scientist are i

I guess, ill make this here. My previous topic on morals condones the theory of evolution, and im sure there are many people here who would automatically reject my concepts just because i use evoluti

How is Prophet Adam’s (A.S.) creation (about 5,764 years ago) make sense when fossils found from human beings are almost 25 million years old? question From the beginning

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28 minutes ago, andres said:

Where does the Quran say so?

I don't know if there is something in Quran about it, haven't read it completely yet. But I will, inshallah.

The quran is perfect, but Allah could also involve many things in it, but that would make the book way too big, and no one would read it, and he knows that.

But I know for a fact that the Swines were people and the apes as well, I can't find the reference, but I know It would be odd for serval books to say that swine is prohibited, I mean If a man sent message, why would he make a meat haram? Did they know that pigs were unhealthy at the time? Like 3000 years ago? 

We believe it was the same Allah who sent all religions similar to Islam, aka christianity and Judaism. Islam is just the perfect version of all the religons sent before him, cause he sent the best messanger and gave Prophet Mohammed's family the Chalipha, but Abu bakr and Omar took it from them.

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Heres something anyone can try at home

http://timetree.org/

You can go to this website, search whatever two taxon you would like, find out where, genetically they are predicted to have existed and diverged, then go and just google the fossil record of said taxon.

You will find that genetically, life on earth presents itself in a way which matches the fossil succession. Which only really makes sense when you consider that life today has descended from a series of common ancestors.

For example, you can search ursidae and felidae and you will find common ancestry predicted in the early Cenozoic.

or varanidae and iguanadae and you will pickup ancestry in the late jurassic

Then you can go look up the fossil succession, and you will find mammals like ursidae and felidae dominating in the Cenozoic, while reptiles like iguanadae and varanidae dominating in the Mesozoic.

Which only makes sense, if these groups of animals shared common ancestry.

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20 minutes ago, iCambrian said:

Is my post confusing @hasanhh?

That one does. l went to the site and couldn't figure out how to actually use it or how to understand what l was reading. Us old analogues do do better with B&W graphs and charts because that is how we were educated.

Another component is that l am fascinated with 'origins' -like the ice producing guanine in the 1950s- and branch-beginnings into separate genus/species, plus mutations.

l saw an article on diet-affecting-genetic-mutations either Thursday or Friday an forgot to post the link here. Sorry.

What constitutes 'biology' has changed 5, 6 or more times in my life time. What l had in school was very little different that what my parents had in the 20s and 30s.

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How is Prophet Adam’s (A.S.) creation (about 5,764 years ago) make sense when fossils found from human beings are almost 25 million years old?
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From the beginning of Prophet Adam’s life till this day about 5,764 years have passed. The oldest human fossil that has been found up to today is from 25 million years ago! Please answer using evidence.
Concise answer

http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa3297

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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Inadequate, @Ashvazdanghe

The 5,764 years ago comes from Jewish mysticism (actually unbelievers in Jewish clothing changing the Revelation of the God of Noah-s.w.t. to conform with their Babylonian masters' historical myths) transmitted into the western church by St. Jerome. This became 'permanent' during the Maccabean era.

Creation in Bible and Quran have the same observation: we have the "how" but not the 'when'.

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On 1/14/2018 at 6:23 PM, hasanhh said:

Inadequate, @Ashvazdanghe

The 5,764 years ago comes from Jewish mysticism (actually unbelievers in Jewish clothing changing the Revelation of the God of Noah-s.w.t. to conform with their Babylonian masters' historical myths) transmitted into the western church by St. Jerome. This became 'permanent' during the Maccabean era.

Creation in Bible and Quran have the same observation: we have the "how" but not the 'when'.

Can't be that long ago though; right?

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I posted this in another thread, figured I would share it here.

 

Its about a pretty popular experiment. 

Basically, 12 populations are observed over 68 thousand generations and nearly 30 years.  Mutations are observed to occur, substitutions, duplications, inversions, point mutations, deletions etc.

The mutations are observed to accumulate over time, and every 500 generations, the populations are frozen and preserved. Throughout the experiment, the ancestral frozen strains are competed against modern strains to measure increases in fitness.  Their genomes are examined for mutations that have been fixed by natural selection. 

And basically, they're just watching the e.coli evolve. The bacteria is increasing in fitness as time passes, and they're experiencing phenotypic changes as a result of these mutations that are giving them advantages over their ancestors.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature24287?sf123636869=1

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And yes, I understand that the e.coli are not growing limbs and teeth and battling eachother. Evolution doesn't predict that in a mere 30 years, the bacteria would somehow transform into dinosaurs.

But what it does show, is that mutations transform phenotypic and genotypic properties of life, and natural selection drives increases in fitness, and drives genomic and phenotypic variation of life. Which is all evolution has ever proposed.

 

Throw in something like accumulated substitutions of cytochrome c, or immunilogical proteins, as well as phylogenetic trees of things like ERVs and our genome at large, and what we end up with are, the locations of fossils being predicted by measurement of accumulated changes in DNA and subsequent changes in proteins.

If evolution were not true, why would such a correlation exist? Only the theory of evolution and common descent can really explain such a correlation of data.

http://tolweb.org/tree/

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/416c/cdac1d9344ca415a8b79ca24591eb943e056.pdf

 

Image result for cytochrome c evolution

Image result for ERV phylogenetic tree

Image result for whale evolution fossils

 

 

sarich.png

 

 

These are 5+ independent fields of research, all giving the same results and deriving the same phylogenies, indicating descent with modification resulting in evolution and common descent. The E.coli experiment is just a piece discussing the observed mechanics on a small scale.

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On 5/17/2011 at 2:57 PM, iSilurian said:

It is not possible for such animals like...birds to morphologically evolve over the course of one season and then back. Im not sure where u have gotten this impression. The final paragraph states...

 You are confusing eidonomy with transmutation.

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Which supposition works best?

Then you have this contrived, even hokey, story: (ln my humbled opinion)

http://www.newsweek.com/only-handful-birds-survived-dinosaur-killing-asteroid-now-scientists-have-944381 

Because they "lost their perches" ?  :hahaha:

:ranting:"How dare they believe l am so dumb as to entertain this hokem?"

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On 9/20/2018 at 11:24 PM, hasanhh said:

@iCambrian

l believe you'll Iike this and the video.

Chimp-Hominid Branch pushed back.

Pre-Cambrian life forms.

https://www.dw.com/en/fat-traces-show-strange-fossils-made-by-earliest-animals/a-45586002 

Thanks,

 

Yea I was actually reading about this when it first came out.  I've always loved reading about early invertebrates. I think they makeup the most interesting part of the fossil succession. Burgess shale fauna and those of the ediacaran have so much variety and...oddity.

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Telling lie for the sake of evolution

Do People Have 'Gill Slits' in the Womb?

 

German zoologist Ernst Haeckel is perhaps most famous for defending evolution with the argument that creatures replay their evolutionary past when developing in the womb. Since Darwin's time, textbooks have reiterated that early embryos of many vertebrates, including humans, have tiny pouches that reflect an evolutionary fish stage. More recently, embryologists thoroughly refuted that concept, and others have shown that Haeckel's drawings were partially faked. And a new online video taken from 3-D scans of a developing baby's face should bury Haeckel's old and uninformed argument.

Embryologist and evolutionist Michael Richardson and colleagues dropped a bomb on Haeckel's long-held concept known as "embryonic recapitulation." He compared Haeckel's old drawings with actual photographs of the same embryos in a 1997 technical paper.1 The comparison showed that Haeckel's drawings were frauds.

 

However, textbooks have not yet reflected these findings. For example, the 2007 edition of a popular college biology textbook by Sylvia Mader features a Haeckel-like illustration and an explanation about embryo pouches—sometimes called "gill slits" by evolutionists—and how their presence supposedly supports evolution

 

But how does Mader know that the pouches "lost original function?" She doesn't—she makes the statement on the basis of evolutionary belief, not on scientific observation. She even lists the pouches' critical functions for human development. Since the pouches are tissues organized into folds and have known functions, then there is no scientific reason to even suspect that they reflect any evolutionary past.

 

In his zeal to promote evolution, Haeckel foisted faulty embryo sketches onto his readers, and the zeal of his followers has perpetuated those falsehoods for over a century. Now, not only is his sketch work on embryos "one of the most famous fakes in biology," but every pouch and fold of the human embryo itself is now known to be fully functional, precisely timed, and intricately arranged.

 

https://www.icr.org/article/6926/

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On 11/23/2018 at 8:08 AM, hasanhh said:

Opine: l wonder why so many species had "parrot like" beaks?

Anyway, https://www.dw.com/en/scientists-find-elephant-sized-creature-that-lived-with-dinosaurs/a-46414559 

@iCambrian

Well, if they're beneficial to the fitness of the animals, be it a dinosaur or a bird, then there is a likely hood that convergent evolution would occur.

 

I'm always up for a good read on reptile like mammals, thanks for the share.

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7 hours ago, shadow_of_light said:

Which institute? Other websites say the same.

There are "Creationist" groups that slant or make-up 'information' to conform to their superstition that the World began in ~6000 B.C..

As you know Persian and China's histories go back farther than 8,000 years ago.

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9 hours ago, hasanhh said:

There are "Creationist" groups that slant or make-up 'information' to conform to their superstition that the World began in ~6000 B.C..

As you know Persian and China's histories go back farther than 8,000 years ago.

The world apparently began about 13-17 billion years ago but it is quite possible that Adam and Eve lived around 6000-8000 years ago and of course before them, other species similar to human being existed.

The report which I posted seems very scientific. There is no proof that human fetus has gills.

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We have observed evolution taking place in a scientific study over the course of twenty five years.

 

Look up Dr. Richard Lenski and his long term e.coli experiment, I'd link but I can't use Android as well as Windows.

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On 12/11/2018 at 1:21 PM, GD41586 said:

We have observed evolution taking place in a scientific study over the course of twenty five years.

 

Look up Dr. Richard Lenski and his long term e.coli experiment, I'd link but I can't use Android as well as Windows.

I actually referenced lenskis research here:

 

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Im just pulling more old discussions out from the grave here.

 

I just wanted to jump back into the discussion of the polish tetrapod tracks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_tetrapod_trackways#Holy_Cross_Mountains,_Poland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik

 

The boundaries of precisely when tetrapods evolved to walk on land is still being worked on (and will continue to be). But I thought the above wiki page was interesting.

We have late devonian (360-375ish) tetrapodomorph tracks, in which there is confidence in terrestrial locomotion. This is how it is in most late devonian strata that is fossil bearing. You find regular tetrapod tracks from animals walking on land.

Middle Devonian, 375-390 you have things like tiktaalik

" The trackways are late Middle Devonian in age based on a palynological assemblage from the Valentia Slate Formation and the U-Pb radioisotopic dating of an interstratified air-fall tuff bed to ca. 385 Ma,[3] making these tetrapod trackways some of the earliest recorded, along with traces of early Middle Devonian (Eifelian) age from Poland.[4]The most extensive of the Valentia Island trackways is preserved in a fine-grained sandstone and records some 145 imprints in a parallel orientation of the left and right impressions. The systematic variation in size of the impressions affords distinction between tracks left by the manus and pes of the animal, but the trackway does not preserve any finer details. Other trackways at the same site preserve tail and body drag impressions; the nature of the impressions and that of the sandstone led to the interpretation that the setting was not saturated in water. Consequently, these tracks are interpreted as evidence of fully terrestrial locomotion."

"In 2004, three fossilized Tiktaalik skeletons were discovered in rock formed from late Devonian river sediments on Ellesmere Island, Nunavut, in northern Canada.[50][51]Estimated ages reported at 375 MYA, 379 MYA, and 383 MYA."

So you have these really early tetrapod tracks and the first skeleton of a tetrapod/fish hybrid.

Then in the early devonian (390-410ish) you get things like the polish tracks being dated at 395

A collection of trackways and impressions is reported from the Wojciechowice Formation of the Holy Cross Mountains located in south-eastern Poland.[4] The Wojciechowice Formation is a shallow marine-fed tidal or lagoonal unit that dates to the Eifelian Stage of the Middle Devonian, approximately 395 million years ago based on conodont fossils and previous biostratigraphy on bounding units. The preservation of the track assemblage varies with some clearer tracks preserving finer morphology such as digitation while others are more vague, preserving only an outline. Showing consistency with the aforementioned tracks, these fall into two parallel rows of impressions and show no evidence of body or tail drag.

Then of course we have fish dominating really dominating the early devonian.

So we have clear fish domination in the early devonian (400) and prior, then tetrapod and terrestrial locomotion by the late devonian (385). Tiktaalik around 380 and the polish tracks around 395. So in this middle period, we have entered this discussion of, exactly where or when is the very first tetrapod? We are pulling these fish/tetrapod hybrids out of this gray area in the middle. Im curious to see what comes out of Antarctica here in the next few years. Research is ongoing. People area really working open this 20 million year window to figure out the most feasible explanation, within. Which in geologic time, 20 million years, really is...we are talking about back to back formations in a pretty brief window of time, of a much larger succession spanning billions of years of rock.

 

I think part of why I wanted to make this post was just to point out that, the polish tracks and tiktaalik do not really conflict with one another in the sense that they both support the theory of evolution via the fossils succession. But rather, both the polish trace fossils and tiktaalik among the succession of other fossils, are pulling us into a discussion of fine tuned precision of when and how the fish to tetrapod transition occurred.

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