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SalamSalam

What Do The 12 Imams Have Control Over?

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Guest Mushu

The question doesn't really make sense though. It's like me asking 'What does the Prophet (as) have control over'.

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The question doesn't really make sense though. It's like me asking 'What does the Prophet (as) have control over'.

The person asking said to me that he went to some lectures by Shia Scholars, and they said the Imams are infallible, they control the sun the sky the moon and every atom and they control destiny.

And the Person asking said these are things that Allah has control over and not Imams.

I didn't really know how to answer him, that is why I asked here

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Guest Mushu

I see.

Well, like all of the 124,000 Prophet's miracles, it is Allah (SWT) who causes them, the Prophet or Imam used is merely a medium.

Yes, the 12 Imams are infallable - just like all the Prophets of Allah.

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I see.

Well, like all of the 124,000 Prophet's miracles, it is Allah (SWT) who causes them, the Prophet or Imam used is merely a medium.

Yes, the 12 Imams are infallable - just like all the Prophets of Allah.

He said that Prophet Yunus made a mistake, and so was swallowed by the whale and he repented and was forgiven.

Also the Prophet Muhammad made a mistake, according to the following passage from the Quran

(Surah Abasa

1. (The Prophet) frowned and turned away,

2. Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting).

3. But what could tell thee but that perchance he might grow (in spiritual understanding)?-

4. Or that he might receive admonition, and the teaching might profit him?

5. As to one who regards Himself as self-sufficient,

6. To him dost thou attend;

7. Though it is no blame to thee if he grow not (in spiritual understanding).

8. But as to him who came to thee striving earnestly,

9. And with fear (in his heart),

10. Of him wast thou unmindful.

11. By no means (should it be so)! For it is indeed a Message of instruction:

12. Therefore let whoso will, keep it in remembrance. )

He said the Prophets make mistakes but to a lesser extent than us; and Allah has forgiven all of their sins. But they were not infallible, so how can the Imams be?

(THIS IS ALSO WHAT HE TOLD ME, THAT IS WHY I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER, HE POSED LOTS OF QUESTIONS TO ME BUT I JUST PUT THEM IN SUMMARY WHEN I ASKED TO SAVE TIME FROM TYPING EVERYTHING HE SAID, BUT HE ALSO SAID THIS, SO IF ANYONE COULD CLARIFY THAT WOULD BE GOOD)

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The person asking said to me that he went to some lectures by Shia Scholars, and they said the Imams are infallible, they control the sun the sky the moon and every atom and they control destiny.

And the Person asking said these are things that Allah has control over and not Imams.

I didn't really know how to answer him, that is why I asked here

Sort of like your "Christian friend" who just happened to ask a bunch of questions that a Wahhabi would pose?

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Sort of like your "Christian friend" who just happened to ask a bunch of questions that a Wahhabi would pose?

I try to do dawah amongst my friends, but they have questions that sometimes I find hard to answer, that is why I posted them on here, not to get insulted by you, should I stop giving them dawah?

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Guest Mushu

I try to do dawah amongst my friends, but they have questions that sometimes I find hard to answer, that is why I posted them on here, not to get insulted by you, should I stop giving them dawah?

If these are the questions you find 'hard' to answer, then what do you find easy to answer? :huh:

Besides, why would a Christian mock his own beliefs?

Im sorry, but YOU my friend are the most pathetic attempt at an undercover Nassibi ive seen yet.

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the Imams have control over EVERYTHING.. simple

Even over Allah?

If these are the questions you find 'hard' to answer, then what do you find easy to answer? :huh:

Besides, why would a Christian mock his own beliefs?

Im sorry, but YOU my friend are the most pathetic attempt at an undercover Nassibi ive seen yet.

The Person is a Christian and looking at other religions and sees similarities between Shi'ism and Christianity, so he thinks why convert to it if it is already so much similar. But I am trying to show that it isn't similar in those matters. He told me the questions by mouth and I just tried to put them down here for you guys to answer, but instead of answering all I am getting insults from you guys, is that using Hikma?

If these are the questions you find 'hard' to answer, then what do you find easy to answer? :huh:

Besides, why would a Christian mock his own beliefs?

Im sorry, but YOU my friend are the most pathetic attempt at an undercover Nassibi ive seen yet.

The Person is a Christian and looking at other religions and sees similarities between Shi'ism and Christianity, so he thinks why convert to it if it is already so much similar. But I am trying to show that it isn't similar in those matters. He told me the questions by mouth and I just tried to put them down here for you guys to answer, but instead of answering all I am getting insults from you guys, is that using Hikma?

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(bismillah)

The replies in the this topic are really bad. I'm sorry, SalamSalam. However, sometimes your questions are just so basic they require way too much explanation...

Looking into uber details with these kinds of issues are really unnecessary.

As to the Imams (as), they are Allah (swt) representatives on this earth, successors of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and inheritors of his knowledge and authority. Like with the Prophets (as), the Imams (as) they can perform miracles. And like what is believed about Nabi Jesus [as], it is all with the permission of Allah سبحانه وتعالى. The Imam [as] is the head of creation in his time.

The Prophet (pbuh) was not the one to turn away from the blind many. Our tafsir narrate that it was a man from Bani Umayya who did so when the Prophet (pbuh) was giving Da`wah. How can the man who is Khulq al-`Adheem do such a thing?

There's a lot of material out there to explain the infallibility (`isma) of the Prophets, Imams, etc. I would suggest you go read those materials and look up lectures regarding them so you can get a better and more comprehensive understanding. We can't explain everything to you in great detail.

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam

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the Imams have control over EVERYTHING.. simple

Not according to Shaykh Mufid (ra) :

And I say that the messengers from humanity of Allah, be He exalted, and His prophets and the Imams from his khulafa are contingent created beings, afflictions are attached to them and pleasures occur for them, their bodies are made to grow by food and decreased by the passing of time, death is put (?) for them, and passing away is permitted upon them. And the consensus of the people of tawhid is upon this doctrine. And those belonging to (the heresy of) tafwid (those who believe Allah created the Imams and then delegated the ruling of creation and giving sustenance to the universe to them) and the categories of the ghulat (the exaggerators of the status of the Imams) have opposed us in it.

http://www.*******.org/kalam/awail-al-maqalat/state-of-the-messengers-prophets-and-imams-after-death

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Guest Mushu

Sort of like your "Christian friend" who just happened to ask a bunch of questions that a Wahhabi would pose?

Mac, please ban him. Hes a blatant troll. What the hell kind of Shia asks 'even over Allah' when somone tells him that the Imams have control over everything.

His posts are starting to irritate me.

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(bismillah)

If you are really a Shi`ah, change your intention to learn your dean for yourself, and not to give da`wah because you do not know much yourself to teach anything to others. Then, go to your local Shi'i masjid, center, husainiya,etc and ask the `Alim or Shaykh questions.

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Mac, please ban him. Hes a blatant troll. What the hell kind of Shia asks 'even over Allah' when somone tells him that the Imams have control over everything.

His posts are starting to irritate me.

Yup.

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Bismillarahman Rahim

Allahuma Saali Ala Muhammad Wa Aly Muhammad

Asalam Alaykum Brothers and Sisters.

This question is really not clear.

But in reply to this question, the Imams have no control over nothing with out the will of AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

Just like Jesus (as) raised the dead or Musa (as) changed a staff to a snake, or when Solomon (as) had the ability to control wind or Jinns.

All prophets had miracles, but it was not them who made the miracle happen, of course they prayed for such things and Allah (swt) responded to these prophets.

Just like Allah (swt) made these prophets miracles happen why would he not be able to respond to the prayers of the family of the Prophet Muhammad (saw).

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اطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَ أَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ

"Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you" [Quran 4:59]

The question that this verses poses is “Authority over what matter?” What is the ‘Amr’ in this verse? The below Hadees answers this question.

و فيه و قد ذكر عليه السلام الحجج قال السائل: من هؤلاء الحجج؟ قال: هم الرسول الله و من حل محله من أصفياء الله و هم ولاة الأمر الذين قال الله فيهم: «أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَ أَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ» و قال فيهم: «وَ لَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَ إِلى‏ أُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنْبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ» قال السائل، ما ذاك الأمر؟ قال على عليه السلام، الذي به تنزل الملئكة في الليلة التي يفرق فيها كل امر حكيم من خلق أو رزق و أجل و عمل و حيوة و موت، و علم غيب السموات و الأرض، و المعجزات التي لا ينبغي الا الله له و أصفيائه و السفرة بينه و بين خلقه

The person said, "Who are these Hujjaj?"

Imam Ali (as) said, "They are Prophet of Allah (saww) and those who succeeded him who are selected by Allah (swt) and they are the Wali-Amr (gaurdians) regarding them Allah (swt) says,

"Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you" [Quran 4:59]

And says,

"If they had only referred it to the Messenger, or to those charged with authority among them, the proper investigators would have Tested it from them" [Quran 4:83]

The person said, "What is that Amr?"

Imam Ali (as) said, "That (Amr) is with which the angels descend in the night in which all the wise matters (Amr) are distinguished, from creation (Khalq), livelihood (Rizq) and life and death and the unseen knowledge of the heavens and the earth and the Miracles that is not for any one but Allah and his selected ones and he means between Him and this creations."

[source: Tafseer Noor Al-Saqlain Vol.1 Pg. 507, Al-Ehtejaaj Vol. 1 Pg. 252]

Read more here: http://www.marefatea...ilayat-of-Allah

Edited by muhibb-ali

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