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Layla40

Is Insanity Freewill Or Destiny?

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Salam,

Insanity in terms of freewill and destiny - is it destiny? It can't be freewill because people don't choose to be insane. If it's destiny, then that defeats the purpose of freewill.

Can you please explain this?

Ws

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Its not a matter of understanding, Allah is beyond the comprehension of feeble human minds. If Allah intends something it is. There is no need to question it, for it does not change the reality of it. If the person succeeds in the test, they will be rewarded with a great compensation, if not, they had failed in this world and the next, and Allah never burdens a soul which can not take such burden.

Forgive me if this sounds rude, but there are some places where people are not meant to dwell, Allah did not create us to question his characteristics, as if we are scientists and Allah our test subject which we must understand before we make some stand. Allahu Alim

Edited by yukapuka

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Also one more important fact. Allah tested each soul before Allah ordained its fate. Then again it does not mean that the soul is defected, Allahu Alim, only Allah knows why he did what he did, its knowledge is with Allah alone. Also People with such positions are promised paradise. And if we knew the tests which await us in Barzakh for those of us 'sane' we would have choosen that over the horrors of the grave anyday. Here is one example:

Imam Ali said "O servant of Allah! The state in the grave of a person whose sins are not forgiven

is more horrifying than death itself.Fear its (the grave's) narrowness, its squeezing, its imprisonment

and its loneliness. Verily the grave calls out daily: 'I am the house of loneliness, the house of terror and worms.'

The grave is like a garden of Paradise for a good-doer, while it is like a dungeon of hell for the evil-doer. Allah tells

His enemies He will send ninety nine serpents in their graves that will tear their flesh and smash their bones, and this punishment

will continue till the Day of Judgement. If one such serpent exhales towards this earth, all the plants and trees will be destroyed.

O servent of Allah! Your souls are tender, and your bodies delicate; you cannot confront any oridnary serpent of this world,

how then will you face them?"

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Insanity is the exact opposite of sanity. You cannot wilfully choose to be in an insane state of mind, unless there are some major genetical modifications taking place in your system. Also it is a known fact that an average human uses 6 to 7 percent of the grey matter in his or brain. Einstein used more than this. So if ure using 6 to 7 percent of ur brain how on earth are u going to fathom even questioning the existence of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

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Sis Layla, I have also been wondering, do insane people still have a freewill?

Like if they were having delusions could they not listen to them by their freewill?

Of course I'm not doubting Allah's justice, I just wanna know how things work.

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Salam,

Insanity in terms of freewill and destiny - is it destiny? It can't be freewill because people don't choose to be insane. If it's destiny, then that defeats the purpose of freewill.

Can you please explain this?

Ws

Insanity is a group of mental illnesses ,like any other illnesses ,the mental illness is not by freewell unless you choose to try the drugs or the alcohol , if the mental illness reached teh insanity level wher a person has no insight of what he do or say r even think ,where he cant make distinction between reality and imagination ,where he almost loose the meaning of freewill , at that point he is considered to be like children Sinless , you can not punish him , you can not reward him untill he backs to his sanity

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salam.gif

Insanity could fall into either category. Some actions hold consequences and hence insanity could also be a byproduct of such actions. For example a person could choose to be an oppressor, commit crimes and the guilt at some point in time could drive a person mad. On the other hand it could be due to divine decree and fate like someone being born with an abnormality. In the latter situation you wont be able to find an answer as even Imam Ali(a.s) says about divine decree and fate that it is a deep ocean; you should not enter it(as‑Sadiq; op. cit., chp. 7, p. 59; al‑Majlisi,Biharu'l‑Anwar, vol. 5, p).

The best a person can do is try and follow the path set out by Islam and hope for the best. If even then something like this befalls, no one can provide an answer except AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

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salam.gif

Insanity could fall into either category. Some actions hold consequences and hence insanity could also be a byproduct of such actions. For example a person could choose to be an oppressor, commit crimes and the guilt at some point in time could drive a person mad. On the other hand it could be due to divine decree and fate like someone being born with an abnormality. In the latter situation you wont be able to find an answer as even Imam Ali(a.s) says about divine decree and fate that it is a deep ocean; you should not enter it(as‑Sadiq; op. cit., chp. 7, p. 59; al‑Majlisi,Biharu'l‑Anwar, vol. 5, p).

The best a person can do is try and follow the path set out by Islam and hope for the best. If even then something like this befalls, no one can provide an answer except AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

can i disagree with you ?

i think insanity in islamic laws would be applied on Psychosis branch of psychopathology not on the other branch the neurosis

Insanity, craziness or madness is a spectrum of behaviors characterized by certain abnormal mental or behavioral patterns. Insanity may manifest as violations of societal norms, including becoming a danger to themselves and others, though not all such acts are considered insanity. In modern usage insanity is most commonly encountered as an informal unscientific term denoting mental instability, or in the narrow legal context of the insanity defense. In the medical profession the term is now avoided in favor of diagnoses of specific mental illness such as schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders.[1] When discussing mental illness in general terms, "psychopathology" is considered a preferred descripto

from wiki

i prefer too to use specific scientific terms rather a loose one like Insanity when talking about islamic laws

generally , almost all of our actions are fate , almost all of our actions are free will , the psychopathologies are mis understood sometimes cause they manifest as behaviors , and one would assume that all behaviors are voluntary ie with free will

the schizophrenic for example is not aware of his -madness- and he didnt choose to go unaware , which is not the case of teh drunk or the drug addicts who know that they will go unaware of what will they say or do after taking he drugs

some mental illnesses , like minor depression , the patient will still be aware of his condition , his words and acts , his feeling and his depression unlike the case of teh major -clinical depression

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Salam,

Insanity in terms of freewill and destiny - is it destiny? It can't be freewill because people don't choose to be insane. If it's destiny, then that defeats the purpose of freewill.

Can you please explain this?

Ws

salaam aliakum,

I know about four people who are insane. I wondered about this a lot. the first case is that this person from Shia converted to Salafi and after started to promote Salafi'sm.. he would ask salafi questions to a shia.. whenever the shias answered him.. he would ignore the answer and repeat the question again. I was a child when i got to see this shia convert to salafi trying to debate the shias. at that time i was a sunni and i converted to shia just witnesses these debates. I realized that this salafi man keeps asking the same things.. its just that he does not want to listen to the answer due to narrowmindedness, prejidice, and little knowledge. When he was a Shia.. he had little knowledge and with that little knowledge he would go around debating the sunnis. the sunni salafis converted him over.. slowly afterwards he started growing a beard with no mostache .. but with in a few months of turning to salafi.. he started having serious paraniod delutions. before the mental attack.. he got himself into a bad car accident which got his back broken.... lost his job.. and lost his life time savings (he got duped by his business partner) and then after the mental attack happened.. his wife gave him the divorce. he went into some big time mess.. all he could think was that somebody is trying to kill him, or poison him, and he would not change his clothes for many days.. he would run away from home for days..

I clearly saw this as a curse .. after i grew up, i met him and tried to convince him.. whenever i tried to show proof from Sahih bukhari, Sahih Muslim.. he would just say its not fake.. and just look away.. and then talk about the mental delusions in regards to water being contaminated to drink.. etc. I had no choice but to give up..

another person i know is this lady who was having a hard time in life.. so she would look up in the sky and accuse God of being cruel.. Cruel GOD!!! she would keep on repeating whenever she heard of clamity, financial loss, or in problems.. she would just blame God Almighty. then slowly she went mentally sick.. she talks about delusions and that she hears vioces etc. this also sounds like a cursed case. medicines only help control them going out wild..

another case i know was that his lady was a disobediant to her parents, very wild type of a person.. she would beat her mom, disobey her father, wear very sexy modern objectionable clothes, steal money from people, then she got married, she would slap her father in law, disobediant to her husband, and everyone around him were sick of her and hated her.. well she went mental after having her first child.. first she went into post pregnancy depression.. then it went deeper.. and deeper.. she just stopped communicating with people.. always scratching her head.. would not change her clothes.. would speak.. appear very dumb.. lost in her deep thoughts, smile and laugh to herself.. and ran away from home a few times.. finally she is still a missing person since a few months. from what i really noticed this is also a curse case,.

another case is just a normal teenage boy who wanted to be an artist painter and had high goals.. high dreams in life.. when he was not able to achieve those goals.. his father was also very pushy... the father wanted him to become a doctor.. but he wented to become a painter artist.. he in his later teenage years went mental.. all he does all day is sing songs to himself .. does not even wash himself after going to the tiolet.. his old age mom helps him wash him after tiolet. he looks a lot at the roof and just sings songs and picks out from the garbage cigarrette buds and tries to smoke them.. i don't know if this is a curse case.. its purely a depression case..

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can i disagree with you ?

Lol...sure you can...smile.gif. If we agreed all the time... wouldn't life become so boring...wink.gif?!

I rather meant that sometimes schizophrenia, depression can result because of some actions and thats why it could be termed as free will. For example people might involve themselves in haram relationships and when things wouldnt work out fall in some kind of depression. Or sometimes when parents need to give up their kids for adoption due to their actions etc. Stuff like this leads to mental instability. Obviously when one is in the state of insanity they dont know what they are doing. But i think this discussion is about the phase before that.

Edited by -SeeKeR-

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Lol...sure you can...smile.gif. If we agreed all the time... wouldn't life become so boring...wink.gif?!

I rather meant that sometimes schizophrenia, depression can result because of some actions and thats why it could be termed as free will. For example people might involve themselves in haram relationships and when things wouldnt work out fall in some kind of depression. Or sometimes when parents need to give up their kids for adoption due to their actions etc. Stuff like this leads to mental instability. Obviously when one is in the state of insanity they dont know what they are doing. But i think this discussion is about the phase before that.

mental adaptation to psychological stressors , social and family environment and sometimes IQ all do affect the probability to have mental illness

saying that , one must not always think of mental illness as a curse , it is just an illness , like any illness can affect the good people and the bad people and the common people who dont belong to too good or to too bad

a man who studied in Hawza , a good father and husband who ended up with schizophrenia , a 19 year old student who was doing generally good in school away from substance abuse and with acceptable family conditions who end up with schizophrenia

it is unfair , hard and generally wrong to judge people with what we dont know or sure , better to treat an illness as an illness

you can though argue that non believers who dont hold a moral value in Patience and those who have no faith in the reward in afterlife might find it harder to cope to psychological traumas

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mental adaptation to psychological stressors , social and family environment and sometimes IQ all do affect the probability to have mental illness

saying that , one must not always think of mental illness as a curse , it is just an illness , like any illness can affect the good people and the bad people and the common people who dont belong to too good or to too bad

a man who studied in Hawza , a good father and husband who ended up with schizophrenia , a 19 year old student who was doing generally good in school away from substance abuse and with acceptable family conditions who end up with schizophrenia

it is unfair , hard and generally wrong to judge people with what we dont know or sure , better to treat an illness as an illness

you can though argue that non believers who dont hold a moral value in Patience and those who have no faith in the reward in afterlife might find it harder to cope to psychological traumas

I have to agree with you on this one. but sometimes its a curse. there is a prayer.. O God, keep me away from white spots on face/body desease, (cord) keep me away from lepresy (juzaami) and away from being mentally ill ( junooni).

sometimes its definitely a curse... sometimes it may not be a curse.. but its not our right to make a judgement on them..

Zanadine.

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AOA

basically what seperates us from animals is aql and if thats missing then whats left? maybe they serve as examples for us. for example when we come across someone who is blind or mentally challenged or someone who is handicapped, first thing which comes to our mind is alhamdullilah + astaghfirullah. we then sincerely become thankful to Allah (SWT) and ask for his forgiveness.

and these special needs people can also be a trial for their parents, because if He (SWT) Wills, He (SWT) can test us with 3 things health wealth and children.

WS

AOA

sorry i forgot to mention, im only talking about them who were born this way.

WS

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