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Against oneself

Shirazi Say Ok To 3rd Shahada In Prayers

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http://imamshirazi.com/salaat-prayers.html#third

Question: Third Shahadah in Tashahhud

I would like to ask whether we can declare the third Shahadah, "ASH HADU ANNA AMEER AL MUMEENNA ALI YAN WALI ULLAH", in the Tashahhud of the Salaat, is it allowed or not? Does it make the Salaat – the obligatory daily prayers – null and void or is it OK? Please write back to inform us of this matter.

Answer

Bismillah al-Rahmaan al-Raheem

You can say the third SHAHADAH in the Tashahhud in the Salaat - Namaz - the obligatory daily prayers.

Saying the third SHAHADAT in the Salaat - Namaz - does NOT make the Salaat BATIL, but it is not Wajib to say it in the Tashahhud.

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i cant belive it you call yourself shia of imam ali and ur asking wether you should read the shahdat of imam ali being the wali of Allah infront of the almight Allah in salat.

do you people not understand what your saying. just think about it for a second what makes you a shia one of the main reasons are that you belive imam ali being the wali of Allah so why cant you say it infront off Allah.

its like being a hypocrite.

sorry for being negative and all but its getting anoying now. just tryinh to help

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i cant belive it you call yourself shia of imam ali and ur asking wether you should read the shahdat of imam ali being the wali of Allah infront of the almight Allah in salat.

do you people not understand what your saying. just think about it for a second what makes you a shia one of the main reasons are that you belive imam ali being the wali of Allah so why cant you say it infront off Allah.

its like being a hypocrite.

sorry for being negative and all but its getting anoying now. just tryinh to help

Emotional rant.

Followers of Ali, do what Ali did - not what they "think" or "feel" they should based on over-zealous arguments. As far as I know, no credible hadith validates this nor does any other marja` permit it.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/salat/tashahhud/method-of-tashahhud

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/salat/tashahhud/obligatoriness-of-the-two-testimonies

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Emotional rant.

Followers of Ali, do what Ali did - not what they "think" or "feel" they should based on over-zealous arguments. As far as I know, no credible hadith validates this nor does any other marja` permit it.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/salat/tashahhud/method-of-tashahhud

exactly,

@ Mousavi...nobody said they didn't want to do it, in fact I would love to say this but we are checking permissability as we don't want to do bid'a..thats all. If Syed Sistani says yes than absolutely I will include it in my salat...why not?

Why did you have the view that ppl were against it? We just wanted confirmation.

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actually there a verses in the quran which supposrt the waliyat of ali in tahashu. i didnt say that just because you feel like it or think it is right you should.

and for ur information scholars cant become scholor without reading certain book whihc they are then tested on. and one book by ayahtullah seyed taqi modressi its say why you should read tahashud in prayer. and the verses in the quran which support it. without reading this book you cant become a scholar.

i was trying to say it in a nice way im only a teenager for goodness sake. i was just fustarted that all it may of sounded like i was beeing negative about it . =]

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actually there a verses in the quran which supposrt the waliyat of ali in tahashu. i didnt say that just because you feel like it or think it is right you should.

and for ur information scholars cant become scholor without reading certain book whihc they are then tested on. and one book by ayahtullah seyed taqi modressi its say why you should read tahashud in prayer. and the verses in the quran which support it. without reading this book you cant become a scholar.

i was trying to say it in a nice way im only a teenager for goodness sake. i was just fustarted that all it may of sounded like i was beeing negative about it . =]

Brother, You want to see how we love and defend Ali ibn Abi Talib (as)???

Check out my post on this thread:

We will defend him to the death!!!!!

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i cant belive it you call yourself shia of imam ali and ur asking wether you should read the shahdat of imam ali being the wali of Allah infront of the almight Allah in salat.

do you people not understand what your saying. just think about it for a second what makes you a shia one of the main reasons are that you belive imam ali being the wali of Allah so why cant you say it infront off Allah.

its like being a hypocrite.

sorry for being negative and all but its getting anoying now. just tryinh to help

Give me sahih hadith where the Prophet or the imams took Emam Ali in their prayers and azhan.

For me it is still strange that some of Marja says it is mustahab, when none of our Imams have done it.

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(salam)

This question was asked to Syed Sistani before,

§ Question : Is it allowed to recite ali un vali Allah in Tashahhud?

§ Answer : Although it is desirable to witness on the guardianship (wilayat) of Imam Ali after witnessing on the prophethood of the Prophet but as a measure of obligatory precaution, one should not witness on the guardianship of Imam Ali in prayer. Meaning, the obligatory precaution is that ‘Ashhadul ann alian waliullah’ should not be said in tashahhud.

Hope that helps.

(wasalam)

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im not a guy im a girl !

give me 2 weeks after my exams i will prove to you from the quran and hadith where it says that ali yun wali Allah sould be included in tahshud.

even after that if you dont belive me. then

then just think if you love imam ali so much how can you be reciting his waliyat in front of almighty Allah make your namaz batil.

just give me 2 weeks ill prove it to you.

salams

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Yes Haidar, u are correct

Here is the response from Najaf.org

Question: Third Shahadah in Tashahhud

I would like to ask whether we can declare the third Shahadah, "ASH HADU

ANNA AMEER AL MUMEENNA ALI YAN WALI ULLAH", in the Tashahhud of the Salaat,

is it allowed or not? Does it make the Salaat - the obligatory daily prayers

- null and void or is it OK? Is it Sunnah...ie. is there more reward in

saying this???

So basically, the tashahhud would go like this:

"Ashhaduan laila ha illallahu wahdahu laa sharikalah wa ashhaduanna

Muhmmadan Abduho wa rasuluh wa ASH HADU ANNA AMEER AL MUMEENNA ALI YAN WALI

ULLAH...Allahummasaliala Muhammadiw wa ali Muhammad" and then the salam.

Would this invalidate the prayer? Is it recommended???

ANSWER

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

"Ashhadhu anna aliyan waliyullah" is not part of the tashahud therefore; you

must not say it in your prayer. It is recommended although to recite it in

the "Athan" and the "Iqamah".

Wassalamu Alaykum

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For me it is still strange that some of Marja says it is mustahab, when none of our Imams have done it.

Do you mean in tashahhud or adhaan/iqamah? Very few, if any but a number of extreme fringe scholars (Shirazi and co), have declared it permissible (let alone mustahhab) in the tashahhud. However, as for the adhaan/iqamah most maraji` deem it mustahhab. There is actually an interesting explanation of this I read in some fiqh al-istidlali. The reason it is mustahab appears that it is based on the following premises:

1) It is permissible to speak (any speech) within the adhaan and iqamaah and it would remain vaild so long as the interrupting speech was not long enough to be break up the adhaan/iqamah completely.

2) Testifying to the third shahadah is generally mustahhab.

- Therefore, testifying to the third shahadah in adhaan/iqamah is mustahhab

That is, it appears to have little to do with it "becoming" specifically mustahab for the adhan/iqamah. It is generally a good thing, and since there is no problem in mentioning it during that it is a good thing (but then, so is reciting any random verse from the Qur`an?). Note that if at any time someone says it with the intention of actually being part of the adhaan/iqamah - their adhaan/iqamah is not valid. Some scholars even mentioned that one should recite it in a different tone, or in a different manner (say once, instead of twice) to stress the point that it is _not_ part of the adhaan/iqamah.

Earlier scholars were very heavy handed on this. Shaykh Saduq (iirc?) heavily curses a group who tried to create this innovation (introducing the third shahadah). The tide mainly changed amongst later scholars generally in the post-Safavid era, where the dynamics of the Shi`a identity pretty much inverted, I think it was at that time the consensus became that it was "mustahab" (if you can call it that) based on the explanation I gave above.

i think the reason none of the Imams did it, was maybe because they were being persecuted and also in order that they may keep together the Umma and not cause separation in public

But this is only extreme conjecture (i.e. saying it was simply due to taqiyyah). It does not explain why there is not a _single_ time, a _single_ narration that mentions _any_ of the Infallibles [AS] saying it, or even permitting it.

actually there a verses in the quran which supposrt the waliyat of ali in tahashu. i didnt say that just because you feel like it or think it is right you should.

and for ur information scholars cant become scholor without reading certain book whihc they are then tested on. and one book by ayahtullah seyed taqi modressi its say why you should read tahashud in prayer. and the verses in the quran which support it. without reading this book you cant become a scholar.

i was trying to say it in a nice way im only a teenager for goodness sake. i was just fustarted that all it may of sounded like i was beeing negative about it . =]

May Allah increase you in knowledge.

PS. Look forward to seeing that proof from the Qur`an.

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Do you mean in tashahhud or adhaan/iqamah? Very few, if any but a number of extreme fringe scholars (Shirazi and co), have declared it permissible (let alone mustahhab) in the tashahhud. However, as for the adhaan/iqamah most maraji` deem it mustahhab. There is actually an interesting explanation of this I read in some fiqh al-istidlali. The reason it is mustahab appears that it is based on the following premises:

1) It is permissible to speak (any speech) within the adhaan and iqamaah and it would remain vaild so long as the interrupting speech was not long enough to be break up the adhaan/iqamah completely.

2) Testifying to the third shahadah is generally mustahhab.

- Therefore, testifying to the third shahadah in adhaan/iqamah is mustahhab

That is, it appears to have little to do with it "becoming" specifically mustahab for the adhan/iqamah. It is generally a good thing, and since there is no problem in mentioning it during that it is a good thing (but then, so is reciting any random verse from the Qur`an?). Note that if at any time someone says it with the intention of actually being part of the adhaan/iqamah - their adhaan/iqamah is not valid. Some scholars even mentioned that one should recite it in a different tone, or in a different manner (say once, instead of twice) to stress the point that it is _not_ part of the adhaan/iqamah.

Earlier scholars were very heavy handed on this. Shaykh Saduq (iirc?) heavily curses a group who tried to create this innovation (introducing the third shahadah). The tide mainly changed amongst later scholars generally in the post-Safavid era, where the dynamics of the Shi`a identity pretty much inverted, I think it was at that time the consensus became that it was "mustahab" (if you can call it that) based on the explanation I gave above.

But this is only extreme conjecture (i.e. saying it was simply due to taqiyyah). It does not explain why there is not a _single_ time, a _single_ narration that mentions _any_ of the Infallibles [AS] saying it, or even permitting it.

May Allah increase you in knowledge.

PS. Look forward to seeing that proof from the Qur`an.

Nice one LOL, you should address your bias first before inserting it in unnecessary places.

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Nice one LOL, you should address your bias first before inserting it in unnecessary places.

If there are any inaccuracies, go ahead and point them out..

You should educate yourself first before you present ad hominem hot air as a defense. Corrobate whatever I said with co-akhbari mac if you like..

Edited by The Persian Shah

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Where does shirazi say that saying "Ahshadu ana Aliyun Waliyullah" in prayers is correct? As for adhaan/iqamah, most if not all scholars deem it mustahab to say it without the niyya of it being part of it of course, but I've never heard any marja3 say it in prayers

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read it carefully and with the love of imam ali in ur heart

AL IHTIJAJ AL TABARSI – VOL 1 P230[/b

]فقد جاء الأمر من الإمام جعفر الصادق (علیھ السلام) أن من قال: لا إلھ إلاّ الله محمد رسول الله، فلیقل: علي أمیر المؤمنین

So came the order from the Imam Ja’far Al Sadiq (a.s.): ‘Whoever says – There is no God but

Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah must immediately say Ali is the Commander

of the Faithful’.

As you can clearly see that this is an all encompassing Hadeeth where NO

restrictions are mentioned. The third testimony simply has to be borne, Period!

WASAAIL US SHIA – VOL 6 CH 19 H 7997

قَالَ الصَّادِقُ ع كُلُّ شَ يْءٍ مُطْلَقٌ حَتَّى یَرِدَ فِیھِ نَھْيٌ

So said the Holy Imam Al Sadiq (a.s.): ‘Everything is permissible unless there is a

prohibition order for it.’18

TASHAHHUD (BEARING TESTIMONIES)

And this is what the Mujtahids have concluded for the bearing of testimonies.

TAWZEEH UL MASAAIL – SYED ALI AL SISTANI – RULE 1109

In the second unit of all obligatory prayers, and in the third unit of Maghrib prayers and in the

fourth unit of Zuhr, Asr and Isha prayers, one should sit after the second prostration with a

tranquil body, and recite tashahhud thus: "Ash hadu an la ilaha illal lahu wahdahu la sharika

lah, wa ash hadu anna Muhammadan 'Abduhu wa Rasuluh, Alla humma salli 'ala

Muhammadin wa Ali Muhammad". And it will be sufficient if one recited the tashahhud this

way: Ash hadu an la ilaha illal lahu was ash hadu anna Muhammadan Sallal lahu Alayhi Wa

Aalihi Abduhu Wa rasuluh.

Two testimonies everywhere! Well! Well! Well!

Now, it is proven from the Book of Allah (s.w.t.) When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most

surely Allah's Messenger; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Messenger, and

Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.

that the hypocrites are on two

testimonies.

إِذَا جَاءكَ الْمُنَافِقُونَ قَالُوا نَشْھَدُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُ اللَّھِ وَاللَّھُ یَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُھُ وَاللَّھُ یَشْھَدُ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِینَ لَكَاذِبُونَ

[shakir 63:1] When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most

surely Allah's Messenger; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Messenger, and

Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars.

It is also proven from the Book of Allah (s.w.t.) that the believers are on more than

two testimonies.

وَالَّذِینَ ھُم بِشَھَادَاتِھِمْ قَائِمُونَ وَالَّذِینَ ھُمْ عَلَى صَلَاتِھِمْ یُحَافِظُونَ

[shakir 70:33-4] And those who are upright in their testimonies; and those who keep a guard

on their prayer,

The term used here is ‘Shahadaat’ (Plural). There is no Shahadatain (Dual) here.

Is this the reason why Allah (s.w.t.) has lamented on the people who do pray

Namaaz?

19

وََیْلٌ لِّلْمُصَلِّینَ الَّذِینَ ھُمْ عَن صَلَاتِھِمْ سَاھُونَ

[shakir 107:4-5] So woe to the praying ones, who are unmindful of their prayers,

Should not woe be on those who do not pray Namaaz?

What kind of Namaaz are these people praying that there should be woe unto them?

The point to ponder over is that, since the hypocrites are on two testimonies and the

believers are on at least three, we now have to look at our own Namaaz to see which

Namaaz we are reciting, the woeful one of the hypocrites or the honourable one of

the believers?

On top of the woe on the praying ones we have this Hadeeth where curses are being

sent on them.

ILLUL AL SHARAIE – VOL 2 P602

و بھذا الإسناد عن محمد بن أحمد عن محمد بن عیسى عن الفضل بن كثیر المدائني عن سعید بن أبي سعید البلخي

قال سمعت أبا الحسن ع یقول إن لله تعالى في وقت كل صلاة یصلیھا ھذا الخلق لعنة قال قلت جعلت فداك و لم ذاك قال

لجحودھم حقنا و تكذیبھم إیانا

It is related from the above chain of narrators that the Holy Imam Ali (a.s.) said: ‘Surely

Allah (s.w.t.), at the time of every Prayer that this creation (these people) prays, sends

curses on them’. So I asked: ‘May I be your sacrifice, How comes?’ He (a.s.) said: ‘They

fought against our right and falsified us.’

The worth of their Namaaz has been evaluated in this Hadeeth.

AL KAFI – VOL 8 – H 162

عدة من أصحابنا، عن سھل بن زیاد، عن ابن فضال، عن حنان، عن أبي عبد الله (علیھ السلام) أنھ قال: لا یبالي

الناصب صلى أم زنى

It is narrated from a number of narrators from Suhail Ibn Ziyad, from Ibn Fadhaal from Ibn

Hannan, from the Holy Imam Ja’far Al Sadiq (a.s.) said: ‘It makes no difference whether

the Nasibi prays Namaaz or commits adultery.’

Can you clearly see the value of the Namaaz which is prayed without the Wilayah of

the Holy Ahl Ul Bayt (a.s.)?

20

Let us see what the Holy Imam (a.s.) has said about this matter.

AL KAFI - H 1115, CH. 108, H 38

علي بن محمد، عن سھل بن زیاد، عن إسماعیل بن مھران، عن الحسن القمي، عن إدریس بن عبدالله، عن أبي

عبدالله علیھ السلام قال: سألتھ عن تفسیر ھذه الآیة " ما سلككم في سقر * قالوا لم نك من المصلین " قال: عنى بھا

لم نك من أتباع الائمة الذین قال الله تبارك وتعالى فیھم: " والسابقون السابقون اولئك المقربون " أما ترى الناس

یسمون الذي یلي السابق في الحلبة " مصلي، فذلك الذي عنى حیث قال: " لم نك من المصلین ": لم نك من أتباع

السابقین

Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from ’Isma‘il ibn Mihran from al-

Hassan al-Qummi from Idris ibn ‘Abd Allah who has said the following: “Once I asked abu

‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, about the interpretation of this verse of the

Holy Quran, ‘What has led you to Saqar’ (a place in hell)? They will reply, ‘We did not

pray.’ (74:43) “The Imam said, ‘Such people will be those who did not believe in

'A'immah (Leaders with Divine Authority) about whom Allah, the Most Holy, the Most

High, has said, “The foremost ones will be the nearest ones to Allah.” (56:11) Have you not

noticed that people call the one second to the lead in horseracing ‘Al-Musalli’ (also means the

praying)? This is what is meant therein. “We did not pray” (74:43), means ‘We did not

follow the lead.’”

As you can see without the Wilayah of the Holy Infallibles (a.s.), all actions are futile.

One thing is for certain. If any of the Holy Infallibles (a.s.) used to pray with bearing

of the third testimony, then that should put an end to all arguments.

TASHAHHUD OF THE HOLY PROPHET (S.A.W.)

قُلِ ادْعُواْ اللّھَ أَوِ ادْعُواْ الرَّحْمَنَ أَیا مَّا تَدْعُواْ فَلَھُ الأَسْمَاء الْحُسْنَى وَلاَ تَجْھَرْ بِصَلاَتِكَ وَلاَ تُخَافِتْ بِھَا وَابْتَغِ بَیْنَ ذَلِكَ

سَبِیلاً

[shakir 17:110] Say: Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent Allah; whichever you call

upon, He has the best names; and do not utter your prayer with a raised voice nor be

silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these.

[تفسیر العیاشي ] عَنْ أَبِي حَمْزَةَ الثُّمَالِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ ع قَالَ سَأَلْتُھُ عَنْ قَوْلِ اللَّھِ وَ لا تَجْھَرْ بِصَلاتِكَ وَ

لا تُخافِتْ بِھا وَ ابْتَغِ بَیْنَ ذلِكَ سَبِیلًا قَالَ تَفْسِیرُھَا وَ لَا تَجْھَرْ بِوَلَایَةِ عَلِيٍّ ع وَ لَا بِمَا أَكْرَمْتُھُ بِھِ حَتَّى

آمُرَكَ بِذَلِكَ وَ لا تُخافِتْ بِھا یَعْنِي وَ لَا تَكْتُمْھَا عَلِیّاً وَ أَعْلِمْھُ مَا أَكْرَمْتُھُ بِھِ

It is written in Tafseer Ayyashi that Abu Hamza Al Thumali has narrated from the Holy Imam

Muhammad Al Baqir (a.s.) that the words, ‘and do not utter your prayer with a raised voice

nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these’, the Tafseer (explanation) of

this is that ‘Do not say the Wilayah of Ali (a.s) with a raised voice until an Order comes

21

to you regarding it; and do not be silent with regard to it, meaning, do not conceal it,

and I Know about its honourable status.’

This has also been quoted in many other thousand year old commentaries like

Tafseer Al Safi, Burhan, Noor Us Thaqalayn, Basaair U Darajaat etc.

A congregational Prayer took place in the Heavens above by the Prophets led by

their Master the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.).

AL YAQEEN – SYED IBN TAWOOS – 589 TO 684 AH

ویحدّث الإمام أمیر المؤمنین (علیھ السلام) أن رسول الله (صلى الله علیھ وآلھ) لمّا صلّى بالنبیّین لیلة المعراج أمره

الله أن یسألھم: بم تشھدون؟ فالتفت إلیھم وقال: (بم تشھدون؟ قالوا: نشھد أن لا إلھ إلا الله وحده لا شریك لھ، وأنك

رسول الله، وأن علیاً أمیر المؤمنین وصیّك على ذلك، أخذت مواثیقنا لكما بالشھادة

Imam Ali the Commander of the Faithful (a.s.) has related that the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.)

prayed with the prophets of the night of the Ascension (Me’raaj) by the Order of Allah

(s.w.t.). They asked him: ‘How shall we bear the testimonies?’ He (s.a.w.) turned towards

them and said: ‘How shall you bear the testimonies? Say – ‘We testify that there is no God

but Allah the One without any partner, and you are the Messenger of Allah and Ali is the

Commander of the faithful and your Trustee. These testimonies were taken as covenant

from them’.

TASHAHHUD OF THE HOLY IMAM JA’FAR AL SADIQ (A.S.)

القطرة من بحار مناقب النبي والعترة الجزء الأول الباب الثامن

نقلھ أبو بصیر عن الصادق (علیھ السلام) وھو: بسم الله وبالله والحمد لله وخیر الأسماء كلھا لله، أشھد

أن لا إلھ إلاّ الله وحده لا شریك لھ، وأشھد أن محمداً عبده ورسولھ، أرسلھ بالحق بشیراً ونذیراً بین ید

الساعة، وأشھد أن ربي نعم الربّ، وأنّ محمداً نعم الرسول، وأن علیاً نعم الوصيّ ونعم الإمام، اللھم

صل على محمد وآل محمد وتقبل شفاعتھ في أمتھ وارفع درجتھ، الحمد لله رب العالمین

Abu Baseer has narrated from the Holy Imam Al Sadiq (a.s.) (tashahhud) – ‘In the Name of

Allah (s.w.t.) and with Allah (s.w.t.) and (All) Praise is for Allah (s.w.t.) and all of His (s.w.t.)

Names as Good; I bear witness that there is no God except Allah (s.w.t.) Who is One without

any partner; and I bear witness that Muhammad (s.a.w.) is His (s.w.t.) Servant and His (s.w.t.)

Messenger (s.a.w.); He (s.w.t.) sent him (s.a.w.) with the Truth as a Bearer of good news and

as a Warner; and I bear witness that my Nourisher (s.w.t.) is the best Nourisher (s.w.t.), and

Muhammad (s.a.w.) is the best Messenger and Ali (a.s.) is the best Trustee and the best

Imam; O Allah (s.w.t.) send blessings on Muhammad (s.a.w.) and his progeny (a.s.) and

accept his (s.a.w.) intercession in the Ummah and elevate his (s.a.w.) station; All Praise is for

Allah (s.w.t.).

22

TASHAHHUD OF THE HOLY IMAM ALI AL RIDHA (A.S.)

MUSTADRAK AL WASSAIL – VOL 2 H5

It is in Fiqh Al Ridha (a.s.) that in the fourth cycle of the prayer he (a.s.) used to recite

the following as well in Tashahhud

أَشْھَدُ أَنَّكَ نِعْمَ الرَّبُّ وَ أَنَّ مُحَمَّداً نِعْمَ الرَّسُولُ وَ أَنَّ عَلِيَّ بْنَ أَبِي طَالِبٍ نِعْمَ الْوَلِيُّ

I bear witness that You (s.w.t.) are the best Nourisher and Muhammad (s.a.w.) is the best

Messenger and Ali Ibn Abi Talib (a.s.) is the best Trustee.

Surely, for the Shia, one statement of any one of the Holy Infallibles (a.s.) would

prove to be sufficient. There is no need to give proof upon proof for the Shia. The

others would rather act upon the instruction of the Imams other than the twelve

Divine Imams of the Holy Ahl Ul Bayt (a.s.).

SO WHY HAVE THEY TOLD US TO RECITE ONLY TWO TESTIMONIES?

Okay so I consider that, surely there must be some evidence to suggest that the

Namaaz that we have been taught to us, with only two testimonies, is correct. Yes

there is, but it has been misconstrued.

AL KAFI VOL 2 P 547

قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ ع عَنْ أَدْنَى مَا یُجْزِئُ مِنَ التَّشَھُّدِ فَقَالَ الشَّھَادَتَانِ

(The narrator) said: ‘I asked Abu Ja’far (a.s.): ‘What is the minimum acceptable in

Tashahhud?’ He (a.s.) replied: ‘Two testimonies’.

As you can clearly see, in this Hadeeth, which is being used to justify the recitation of

two testimonies in preference to three, the question is quite clear - What is the

MINIMUM that is acceptable? The answer is also quite clear – TWO.

So, what is the maximum?

23

AL KAFI VOL 3 P 337

وَ فِي رِوَایَةٍ أُخْرَى عَنْ صَفْوَانَ عَنْ مَنْصُورٍ عَنْ بَكْرِ بْنِ حَبِیبٍ قَالَ قُلْتُ لِأَبِي جَعْفَرٍ ع أَيَّ شَ يْءٍ أَقُولُ فِي

التَّشَھُّدِ وَ الْقُنُوتِ قَالَ قُلْ بِأَحْسَنِ مَا عَلِمْتَ فَإِنَّھُ لَوْ كَانَ مُوَقَّتاً لَھَلَكَ النَّاسُ

And in another narration from Safwan from Mansoor from Bakr Bin Habib says that I said to

Abu Ja’far (a.s.): ‘What shall I say in Tashahhud and in Qunoot?’ He (a.s.) replied: ‘Say the

best of what you have learnt. If it had been fixed, the people would have perished!’

Tashahhud is clearly not fixed, for had it been so, we would have perished.

Is this because if it had been fixed at three, then the oppressive governments of the

adversaries would have put us to death for this? We, the Shiites have been killed for

things even less that this, in history.

Is this because if it had been fixed at two, the value of our Namaaz would have not

been worthy of mention on the Day of Judgment?

And so what is the best - two or three?

Why are they forcing us to fix it at two? Who are they to fix it when the Holy

Infallibles (a.s.) have clearly left it unfixed?

CONCLUSION

Let us now look at these three Hadeeth once again for the conclusion.

AL IHTIJAJ AL TABARSI – VOL 1 P230

فقد جاء الأمر من الإمام جعفر الصادق (علیھ السلام) أن من قال: لا إلھ إلاّ الله محمد رسول الله، فلیقل:

علي أمیر المؤمنین

So came the order from the Imam Ja’far Al Sadiq (a.s.): ‘Whoever says – There is no God but

Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah must immediately say Ali is the Commander

of the Faithful’.

BASHARAT AL MUSTAFA LI SHI’AT AL MURTAZA – 511 AH

إني لا أقبل عمل عامل إلا بالإقرار بنبوتك وولایة علي، فمن قال: لا إلھ إلاّ الله محمد رسول الله وتمسّك بولایة علي دخل الجنة

I do not accept the deeds of any doer until he bears witness to your (s.a.w.) Prophethood

and the Mastership of Ali (a.s.). Whoever says – There is no God but Allah and Muhammad

is the messenger of Allah and attaches himself to the Mastership of Ali will enter Paradise.

24

AL YAQEEN – SYED IBN TAWOOS 589 - 664 AH

یتجلّى للواقف على أحادیث الرسول وأبنائھ المعصومین (علیھم السلام) ھتافھ في مواطن عدیدة بما منح الله تعالى علیاً (علیھ

السلام) بالولایة التي ھي شرط في قبول الشھادتین، وان الفطرة التي فطر علیھا الناس: التوحید لله وأن محمداً رسول الله وعلیاً

أمیر المؤمنین

It is reflected in the sayings of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) and his infallible sons (a.s.) in many

of the chants of Allah (s.w.t.) that Wilayah (Mastership) is a precondition to the

acceptability of the two testimonies and it is in the nature of the people - The Oneness of

Allah (s.w.t.), the Prophethood of Muhammad (s.a.w.) and Ali the Commander of the Faithful

(a.s.).

prove from the holy quran and from the holy imams

well then tell me who is right the word of Allah and the translantions of masumeen or ali sistani ?

i hope u r enlightened by the words of Allah

nd may Allah increase ur knowledge

may Allah guide all those who want to be guided. ws

Edited by mousavi

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^^

Who is more experienced in Ijtihad, you or Sistani?

Lets clear this up one and for all. Whoever claims that Aliyun Waliyullah or anything similar can be said in the TASHAHUD is wrong and it makes your salat Batil, end of story.

If Shirazi is your marja, then by all means follow his fatwa. But majority claim it is not part of Tashahud. Watch this for more info:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4LylAbbJq4

Edited by Immy_110

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Wow, big claim. What if the Imams(as) allowed it?

It is allowed and there is no problem in reciting it or some dua etc after the shahadatan (the 2 minimum required testimonies).

Read link: Reciting third testimony (aliun waliullah) in tashahhud, allowed?

What is actually problematic is the reciting of the third testimony in adhan and iqama (EVEN with the intention of it being NOT part of adhan and iqama) since there is no hadith which recommends it and we can not make up something to be mustahab out of nowhere. And the way maraji have made it to be recited in a particular manner, i.e. 2 times after "ashhadu anna Muhammadur Rasool Allah" and declared this practice to be mustahab, that makes it a bidah and HARAM.

Don't know why maraji' are so keen to do the opposite of ahadith. :unsure:

This is the problem with many today. It is so easy to pick and mix ahadith, then make a claim out of it. To ignore the marja/scholars is indeed a sign of Jahiliyyah and one of the signs of the end times.

If the Aimmah (as) were here with us now, then we would obviously refer to them. However, they are not, so we refer to our Maraja.

'Aliyun Waliyullah' in Adhaan and Iqamah is fine according to majority of Maraja, as long as you claim its not wajib, and plus the evidences are countless for this opinion. But just not in TASHAHUD. Have a read through: http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=4967

Though I'm pretty sure that if you ask the Ulama they would give you a much more indepth and concise answer which would probably cover volumes.

Our Deen is based on authentic daleel, not fairy tale claims.

Edited by Immy_110

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^^

Who is more experienced in Ijtihad, you or Sistani?

Lets clear this up one and for all. Whoever claims that Aliyun Waliyullah or anything similar can be said in the TASHAHUD is wrong and it makes your salat Batil, end of story.

If Shirazi is your marja, then by all means follow his fatwa. But majority claim it is not part of Tashahud. Watch this for more info:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4LylAbbJq4

im comparing the words of Allah nd masumeen with wt sistanis's says

did u nt read the 24 proves to wiliyat of imam ali a.s in tashahud.

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Salam

Ya Ali Madad

You people really need to look at what your reading... you are actually saying that the namaaz is BATIL if you read Aliyun Waliullah in Tashahud????? :S

forget Imam Shirazi and Ayatullah Sistani and all these other marjas.. just think with your heart for once.. you are actually saying, that the namaaz will become baatil if we take one of the most Paak and pure names in there???

in my opinion, whoever reads Aliyun Waliullah in Tashahud is right.. and whoever doesnt read in is also right.. Neither methods are wrong, if your intention is right, with the love of Prophet Muhammed and his Ahlebait (as) then how can it be wrong.

for those of you who say its baatil.. dont read Aliyun Waliullah in tashahud, read abubakr, umar usmaan instead. because what you are saying is what they would say

ya ali madad

wsalam

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Salam tauqeer786x

I have a question for you.. in my Namaz can I recite 'Aliyun Waliullah' before i recite the first Surah of Namaz?

How about saying Ya Ali madad while i stand up instead of what is normally said?

Brother Tauqeer After i recite my Qanoot can i start doing Matam (Latam) for imam Hussain before i go into Rakoo?

Before you answer my question please don’t forget your statement

"...you are actually saying, that the namaaz will become baatil if we take one of the most Paak and pure names in there??? ...."

Edited by 1 Needs 2 Read

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Indeed it is, since the institution of marjaiyyah didn't even exist much earlier.

Sorry, but it is the other way round. And I read the article you gave, unfortunately it is just another polemical article trying to refute the sunnis and "prove" the third testimony in adhan and iqama through sunni sources. We shias are forbidden from taking religious knowledge from non shi'ite sources so all those "proofs" are void.

Rijal Kashi

حمدويه وابراهيم ابنا نصير، قالا حدثنا محمد بن اسماعيل الرازي قال حدثني علي بن حبيب المدايني، عن علي بن سويد النسائي، قال كتب الي أبو الحسن الاول وهو في السجن، وأما ما ذكرت يا علي ممن تأخذ معالم دينك: لا تأخذون معالم دينك عن غير شيعتنا فانك ان تعديتهم أخذت دينك عن الخائنين

...........................Imam al Kadhim(as) said: Don't take knowledge of your religion from non shias for then you will be taking your religion from deceivers.

http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m020/23/no2321.html (page 7)

Fair enough, yes it is an article aimed at refuting Sunnis. And no I don't take my knowledge from non-shia sources. If I find something in sunni sources, I always make sure it is something our own sources confirm.

But mind you, its SUNNI sources. They don't even believe in Wilayah of Imam Ali (as) and yet by the grace of Allah, if we want to prove something to them, then we can find numerous references to prove our point.

I agree, that is why I quoted authentic shia ahadith for daleel, not a fairy tale polemical article written to "refute" sunnis (which ended up trying to refute classical shia scholarship).

One hadith? Refer to the links that brother 'The Persian Shah' posted for real daleel then; which go hand-in-hand what the majority Maraja say. Even if I hadn't come across those, I trust my own Maraja than anyone (or my ownself) when it comes to Jurisprudence, so I think I'll stay on the safe side.

Wassalam

Edited by Immy_110

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One simple question to all why did prophet organize prayer and made it wajib??? Was it for Allah??? Or for his follower to fight over issues . Why can't we just reserve few things just and just for Allah the almighty

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people are always wanting to do things their own way, they always want to be unique and want to lead others into their "sunnah" they want to dictate and change things, if people are truly interested in saying the shahad , then say it a million or billion times after prayers

dont forget that the Shaitan was thrown out of Heaven because he wanted to worship God his own way, people are so silly and just ridiculous in their reasoning, always complicating things

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Can we just say bismiali and inshali already? We already do shirk with our ya ali madads's even though Allah swt tells us to call upon him alone, and Allah swt's names are the most beautiful.

I am being sarcastic. I knew ya ali madad was shirk from when i was a child. Being brought up by family members who have said it, and people at mosque saying it, i have convinced them not to=p

It really was not rocket science once they read Imam Ali's 31st letter/sermon and what the Quran explicitly says.

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