Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Ace Abbas

Ayatollah, Marja, Sayed, Imam?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Guest Mushu

No.

Imam only refers to the Infallable 12 Imams, starting with Imam Ali bin Abu Talib, ending with Imam Al-Mahdi.

Syed is merely a title assigned to people who are from the same bloodline as the Prophet (as).

Ayatollah is a level of piety. Scholars are given that title when they reach a level of knowledge and Iman.

Marjah is a scholar who feels that he has mastered all the laws of Islam, and feels that he is the most knowledgable. For that reason, people, if they agree that he is as knowledgable as he says, may follow his rulings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No.

Imam only refers to the Infallable 12 Imams, starting with Imam Ali bin Abu Talib, ending with Imam Al-Mahdi.

Syed is merely a title assigned to people who are from the same bloodline as the Prophet (as).

Ayatollah is a level of piety. Scholars are given that title when they reach a level of knowledge and Iman.

Marjah is a scholar who feels that he has mastered all the laws of Islam, and feels that he is the most knowledgable. For that reason, people, if they agree that he is as knowledgable as he says, may follow his rulings.

Note Ayatullah Khomeini is also sometimes called Imam, which I think is only due to the fact that the introduced a system (Wilayatul Faqih) whereby politics and religion were merged and as he took charge of the entire shia nation .. for these reasons he was called Imam Khomeini .. but of course, he is NOT an Imam in the sense give above that the Imam are the 12 Hujjat after the Holy Prophet (s).

Note 2: another title is "Allamah" .. given to Ayatullah Tabatabai for example (the author of Al-Mizan) .. this title is given to someone who has mastered numerous sciences, not only religion! .. so great title to have!

(I think that's all accurate, feel free to comment!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why don't we call every fallible leader an imam then.

Imam bush

imam Obama

imam nejad

..

..

These titles are not child's play. When u say the prayer leader u specify his role as "imam jamaat". The rest has become a fashion but involves retribution

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Mushu

I agree with Sirat. We should reserve the title of Imam for the 12 Inallables alone.

Also, generally, in Shi'ism, we do not refer to the leader of the prayer as Imam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, at the end of the day it's just a title, and they don't necessary reveal who a person is.. it's not because you call a person an Imam that makes him more knowledgeable or closer to Allah (swt) ..

Imam litt means one who leads .. either the humanity, or the nation, or the salaat in mosque!

Anyways, you can't say lets reserve the title Imam for the Hujjat of Allah after the prophet, because the Quran calls the leaders of the evil-doers as Imam:

9:12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders (Imam) of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.

But obviously at the same time, He (swt) called Ibrahim (s) and Imam over mankind:

2:124: “And (remember) when his Lord tried Ibrahim with (His) commands, and he fulfilled them, He said: ‘Lo! I have appointed you a leader (imam) for mankind.’ (Ibrahim) said: ‘And of my offspring (will there be leaders)?’ He said: ‘My covenant includes not Zalimoon (wrong-doers).’”

So, Imam is just a title ..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As-Salamu Alaykum.

Is ayatollah the same as marja, sayed and imam?

Is there any other names for the rulers or for the ones who are religious?

(bismillah)

Hujjat ul-Islam

A high level scholar who has not reached the level of Ijtehad.

Ayatolalh = Mujtahid.

It is what we call an scholar who has reached the level of Ijtehad. This means he could deduce Islamic rulings himself without the need to follow any other scholar.

e.g Ayatullah Aqil al-Gharavi

Grand Ayatollah = Marja i.e. Marja Taqleed (or Ayatullah al-Udhma)

These are Mujtahids who allow others to follow their verdicts (fatwas). In other words others follow them in Taqleed.

e.g. Ayatullah al-Udhma Sistani or Grand Ayatullah Nasir Makarim Sherazi.

Sayed = respectable person or Scholar.

Used for people from the lineage of the Prophet (pbuh). This terms is also used for any Scholar who is from the lineage of the Prophet(S).

e.g. one may say "Sayyed Sistani".

Sheikh = any Scholar who is not a Sayed

e.g. Sheikh Bhaijat.

Imam = Leader like The 12 Infallible Holy Imams (as) from Ahlul Bait.

e.g. Imam Ali (as) or Imam Hussain (as).

This term "Imam" is also used for leaders other than the 12 Holy Imams Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.

E.g. Imam Khomeini or Imam Khoie.

Similarly prayer leader is called "Imam Jammat".

(Note that these non-Infallible Imams do not have the same status as the 12 Holy Imams (as).)

Other terms used are Maulana, Allamah, Faqih, Agha, Ustad, etc.

e.g. Allamah Majlisi, Allamah Tabatabi, Agha Khoei

Note these are not degrees or titles awarded by any person, body or institute. These are words used to show respect and also identify the educational accomplishments of a scholar. These are words used by others and not the scholars for themselves. Similarly sometimes people may use different words for the same person to show respect.

WS

Edited by Orion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest, at the end of the day it's just a title, and they don't necessary reveal who a person is.. it's not because you call a person an Imam that makes him more knowledgeable or closer to Allah (swt) ..

Imam litt means one who leads .. either the humanity, or the nation, or the salaat in mosque!

Anyways, you can't say lets reserve the title Imam for the Hujjat of Allah after the prophet, because the Quran calls the leaders of the evil-doers as Imam:

9:12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders (Imam) of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.

But obviously at the same time, He (swt) called Ibrahim (s) and Imam over mankind:

2:124: “And (remember) when his Lord tried Ibrahim with (His) commands, and he fulfilled them, He said: ‘Lo! I have appointed you a leader (imam) for mankind.’ (Ibrahim) said: ‘And of my offspring (will there be leaders)?’ He said: ‘My covenant includes not Zalimoon (wrong-doers).’”

So, Imam is just a title ..

so u agreed that this is just a title however Allah azwj has either used it for a hujjat or a shaytaan. It's ur wish now, whom u want to call imam. Don't fall in to the trap of the title game, it's a deep pit.

Edited by siraatoaliyinhaqqun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Mushu

By calling respected scholars such as Khomaini an Imam, youre implying that he is on the same level as the 12 Infallables.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By calling respected scholars such as Khomaini an Imam, youre implying that he is on the same level as the 12 Infallables.

No, not at all. No one can even comprehand the level of the 12 Infallibles, let alone reach it.

Prophet of God is called a "Messenger" and than there is Yahoo "Messenger"!!!!

People are smart. They can differentiate between a Masoom Imam and others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, not at all. No one can even comprehand the level of the 12 Infallibles, let alone reach it.

Prophet of God is called a "Messenger" and than there is Yahoo "Messenger"!!!!

People are smart. They can differentiate between a Masoom Imam and others.

Not really. During my Sunni period, there were people who thought that Ayatullah Khomeini was a Shi`i Imam since people called him Imam.

While I can't say that calling someone "Imam" other than aimmah is forbidden, I prefer to reserve the title to the aimmah & call Khomeini as Ayatullah instead.

I don't want to create further misunderstanding to people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really. During my Sunni period, there were people who thought that Ayatullah Khomeini was a Shi`i Imam since people called him Imam.

Sunnis are very confused people.

While I can't say that calling someone "Imam" other than aimmah is forbidden, I prefer to reserve the title to the aimmah & call Khomeini as Ayatullah instead.

I don't want to create further misunderstanding to people.

^^ Thats your choice. You can call him Ayatullah, Sayyed or even Agha.

When I pray in congregation. I make a Niyya't (intention) that I am praying behind the Imam of this Sala't.

And by Imam I mean simply the person who is leading the prayers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so u agreed that this is just a title however Allah azwj has either used it for a hujjat or a shaytaan. It's ur wish now, whom u want to call imam. Don't fall in to the trap of the title game, it's a deep pit.

What about Sayyid and Sayyida, what's the khabar say about that to refer to non-ma'soumeen? And what about Hajji? If you have shak, you can't use those titles either right? What about Shaikh, was the term Shaikh used in the khabar?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about Sayyid and Sayyida, what's the khabar say about that to refer to non-ma'soumeen? And what about Hajji? If you have shak, you can't use those titles either right? What about Shaikh, was the term Shaikh used in the khabar?

your tone suggests how much u care akhbaar e masoomeen a.s.

Rasool Allah saww said: if the shiekh speaks about the traditions of jahaliyya on Fridays; Hit his head atleast with a pebble.

Unfortunately today is Youm al Ahad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

your tone suggests how much u care akhbaar e masoomeen a.s.

Rasool Allah saww said: if the shiekh speaks about the traditions of jahaliyya on Fridays; Hit his head atleast with a pebble.

Unfortunately today is Youm al Ahad

You didn't answer any of the questions. Nor did you provide the reference to your quote. In fact this could be really fun, if the hadith is authentic, i'm gonna make sure to have a pebble in my hand every time i go to the masjid on Friday, and as soon as the Sheikh says the word jahiliyya ... POWWWWWWWWWWWW

What about if they're a 'Sayyid', not a Shekh, can i still hit them?

WATCH OUTTTTTT, INCOMINGGGGGGGG

Also, am I allowed to use a sling shot? Or does does it have to be with my hand?

Also, do I say "Allahu Akbar" like i would when i'm throwing pebbles in Mina at the jamaraat during hajj?

Also, what if i miss his head, can i keep going till i hit the bulls-eye?!?!?!

Please provide references of the khabar to the answer of these questions.

JazakAllah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ lol

u r a real usooli. The right of the interpretation belongs to the one who said it. I read about the shiekh thing and I said it. I am not a sayyid and I do not know why they call themselves sayyid or Mir(some subcontinent sayyids) however u are intelligent enough to understand that certain titles mentioned in Quran and ahadees are specific and cannot be used. They belong to our aimma a.s and we have protested against such claims for centuries.

And don't u know the title of ameer ul momineen also belongs to imam Ali a.s but u were mute when khamenei was called ameer ul momineen in the other thread by baradar Jackson.

Anyway, I suggest u do a thorough research on many titles that are being used today.

Ya Ali Madad

Edited by siraatoaliyinhaqqun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And don't u know the title of ameer ul momineen also belongs to imam Ali a.s but u were mute when khamenei was called ameer ul momineen in the other thread by baradar Jackson.

"Ameer al-Momeneen" is not used for any of our scholars. We use it for Imam Ali (as) only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You didn't answer any of the questions.

These people are trained to propagate lies about ijtehad and taqlid. And to disrespect our scholars.

They are incapable of answering questions.

:unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ only a mad person has answers for everything and not having answers wouldn't make a person wrong and having wrong answers wouldn't make person right

We don't expect you to answer everything. But at least provide answers to common problems or questions. Unfortunately you have failed in that too.

All we get from you is your "ratta" (repeated parrot talk)......ijtehad is qiyas, ijtehad is personal opinion, shia got it from sunnis, scholars deceive, taqlid of masoom only, blah, blah, blah. Just like those Wahabis who lecture us that Mutah is prostitution, taqayyah is lying and shia have a separate quran. A million times you tell them its not, but they still insist.

If you are serious about any discussion. Tell us about your creed. Show us solution to present-day problems and answer common questions from your prespective. And for the love of shiachat, stop lecturing us about our beliefs and methods. If I wanted to learn about Usooli beliefs, I would ask from an Usooli scholar. Why would I ask you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't expect you to answer everything. But at least provide answers to common problems or questions. Unfortunately you have failed in that too.

All we get from you is your "ratta" (repeated parrot talk)......ijtehad is qiyas, ijtehad is personal opinion, shia got it from sunnis, scholars deceive, taqlid of masoom only, blah, blah, blah. Just like those Wahabis who lecture us that Mutah is prostitution, taqayyah is lying and shia have a separate quran. A million times you tell them its not, but they still insist.

If you are serious about any discussion. Tell us about your creed. Show us solution to present-day problems and answer common questions from your prespective. And for the love of shiachat, stop lecturing us about our beliefs and methods. If I wanted to learn about Usooli beliefs, I would ask from an Usooli scholar. Why would I ask you?

Listen and try to understand the aspect of these discussions. When any one claims to be belonging to a group he is Supposed to know beforehand what the objective of the group is. Keeping that in mind; I, mac and Nader showed u the principles of usoolism and how akhbaris refuted it. A further acceptance from Ayatollah Khoi was given that there is no proof for taqleed e mujtahid in Quran and ahadees. And if u want it in Urdu from the mouth of an ayatollah that ijtehaad is jahalat then please listen to this ayatollah. Part 1F to end where he says that ijtehad is jahalat; to make it easy for u if not listen to the whole majlis..

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=AU#/watch?v=RjDcepCjUak

you have asked a very good question: "solutions to present-day problems?"

let's analyse

Do we have every knowledge mentioned in Al Quran and ahadees?

If your answer is "NO" then you would be denying Allah azwj, His hujjats asws and His Book. And if you say YES then you should have answers for those questions with proofs from Quran and Ahadees only.

But u do not want to admit that ijtehad and ijma are also independent sources of law apart from Quran and Ahadees. The mujtahids admit to it and that's when all those great akhbari scholars came forward and denied such usage and did compile some wonderful ahadees books. So, the answer is to read the books urself whenever u come accross an issue. And if u are unable find it yourself ask a brother momin to help u find it. If he knows the hadees to it, u have an answer and if u can't find an answer to it u are not obligated to act on it. Allah azwj wants to see ur niyyat in His itaat and the amal should be what Allah azwj has ordered not human inventions.

You may not find answers to many questions but would u provide Allah azwj with this excuse for inventions of new laws? But u won't be able to do that, bcos there are many in this world who act according to what Allah azwj ordered and refrain from baseless beliefs(ones which have no basis in Quran and ahadees).

Do u think Allah azwj is zaalim (Maaz Allah) to have left us with unanswered questions from His 14 hujjats and will question about it and do u think that is it not a majusi belief to strip Allah azwj from His right to punish abd reward by saying that the perpretator of wrong only would be punished but it's supporters are forgiven?

And don't u think you are too rude towards me by slandering me and blaming me of conspiracy? And don't you think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing and not for learning?

I hope Allah azwj guides you to urwathil wuthqa ajf in the midst of this test.

Ya Ali Madad

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Listen and try to understand the aspect of these discussions. When any one claims to be belonging to a group he is Supposed to know beforehand what the objective of the group is. Keeping that in mind; I, mac and Nader showed u the principles of usoolism and how akhbaris refuted it. A further acceptance from Ayatollah Khoi was given that there is no proof for taqleed e mujtahid in Quran and ahadees. And if u want it in Urdu from the mouth of an ayatollah that ijtehaad is jahalat then please listen to this ayatollah. Part 1F to end where he says that ijtehad is jahalat; to make it easy for u if not listen to the whole majlis..

AstaghfarAllah, so according to you Ijtehad is jehalat and all Marjas are jahil. :mad:

Here you continue your propaganda, disrespect and lies about Ijtehad and Taqlid and now you are trying to drag a dead Marja who cannot explain or defend himself. I have already told you that Aqali dalil are enough for me. Furthermore, Naqali dalail have already been presented here many many times. I even gave you the link....but as they say its like talking to a brick wall.

you have asked a very good question: "solutions to present-day problems?"

let's analyse

Do we have every knowledge mentioned in Al Quran and ahadees?

If your answer is "NO" then you would be denying Allah azwj, His hujjats asws and His Book. And if you say YES then you should have answers for those questions with proofs from Quran and Ahadees only.

But u do not want to admit that ijtehad and ijma are also independent sources of law apart from Quran and Ahadees. The mujtahids admit to it and that's when all those great akhbari scholars came forward and denied such usage and did compile some wonderful ahadees books. So, the answer is to read the books urself whenever u come accross an issue. And if u are unable find it yourself ask a brother momin to help u find it. If he knows the hadees to it, u have an answer and if u can't find an answer to it u are not obligated to act on it. Allah azwj wants to see ur niyyat in His itaat and the amal should be what Allah azwj has ordered not human inventions.

You may not find answers to many questions but would u provide Allah azwj with this excuse for inventions of new laws? But u won't be able to do that, bcos there are many in this world who act according to what Allah azwj ordered and refrain from baseless beliefs(ones which have no basis in Quran and ahadees).

Do u think Allah azwj is zaalim (Maaz Allah) to have left us with unanswered questions from His 14 hujjats and will question about it and do u think that is it not a majusi belief to strip Allah azwj from His right to punish abd reward by saying that the perpretator of wrong only would be punished but it's supporters are forgiven?

And don't u think you are too rude towards me by slandering me and blaming me of conspiracy? And don't you think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing and not for learning?

I hope Allah azwj guides you to urwathil wuthqa ajf in the midst of this test.

Ya Ali Madad

.

What you have said above ^^ is contradictory. First you say that Allah has not left us with any unanswered questions. Than you say that we cannot find answers.

The problem is that you need ILM (knowledge) to be able to find answers, which layman (like you and me) dont have. This is why we need learned men like Mujtahids and Marjas to find answers for us and that is why we need them and follow them. The whole institution of Ijtehad and taqlid is for this purpose. The institution that you are against.

When we asked you questions, you had no answers..... why because your theory of bypassing learned scholars is a flop. And not because there are no answers in the book of Allah or hadith.

And no, we dont ask just any "momin brother" to find answers, we find a learned scholar (called Mujtahid or Marja). They find answers for us (called fatwas) and explain their findings during lectures (called dars e kharij).

So my dear friend, as you can see, you have proved your own theory (of finding answers yourself and asking any momin brother) wrong. There is no escape from Ijtehad and Taqlid. No bypass.

Got it!

Edited by Orion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The concept of Ijtihad is so logical, I wonder how one cannot see it..

Why is it that in matters of health one goes to the doctor, in matters of maths and chemistry one goes to a teacher, in matters of money one goes to a financial expert, etc.. but when one is ignorant in terms of religious duties he should not inquire from a specialst in the field (or the most knowledgeable, 'marja')..

And if you question the issue of trusting him, then I ask how come you don't question the doctor when he gives you a medication of which you have no knowledge, or the financial expert gives you an advice on the stock market, etc.. similarly, my knowledge of deducing ahkam from Quran and Hadith is very poor, so when the best person in the field, one who has studied the matters for 20+ years, tells me something, I think its only logically for me to listen to him and follow him in my religious duties! (Fiqh)

+ you come accross as one who follows Ameerul Momeneen and the Holy Imam (s)? Did you know that not only was Ijtihad practiced during the times of the Imams (s) but it was approved AND instructed by the Holy personalities.

Just to share some Hadith:

'Abd al‑'Aziz ibn Muhtadi said: "I asked Aba al‑Hasan al‑Rida عليه السلام, 'I am unable to meet you every time, so from whom should I take my religious instruction?” 'Take if from Yunus ibn 'Abd al‑Rahman,' said the Imam عليه السلام." (Wasa'il al‑Shi'ah, vol. 18,eleventh of the chapters on sifatal‑qadi, hadith 34)

Shu'ayb says: "I said to al‑'Imam al‑Sadiq عليه السلام, `Often we have to ask about something; whom should we ask? 'The Imam said, `Ask al‑'Asadi (Abu Basir)."' (Ibid.)

In Usd al­-ghabah (vol. 4, p.197) it is reported that Imam `Ali عليه السلام, while appoint­ing his cousin Qutham ibn al‑'Abbas as governor of Makkah, said to him:

"Give fatwa to the initiated and teach the ignorant"

Al‑'Imam al‑Sadiq (A) is reported to have said to Aban ibn Taghlib (Jami' al‑ruwat, vol. I, p.9):

"Sit in the Mosque of Madinah and give fatwas to the people, for I love the like of you to be seen amongst my Shi'ah."

Do we have every knowledge mentioned in Al Quran and ahadees?

And IF you're really interested, here's some good reads:

http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/ijtihad/1.htm#5

http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/ijtihad/4.htm#5

Edited by When will you be back?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AstaghfarAllah, so according to you Ijtehad is jehalat and all Marjas are jahil. :mad:

Here you continue your propaganda, disrespect and lies about Ijtehad and Taqlid and now you are trying to drag a dead Marja who cannot explain or defend himself. I have already told you that Aqali dalil are enough for me. Furthermore, Naqali dalail have already been presented here many many times. I even gave you the link....but as they say its like talking to a brick wall.

.

What you have said above ^^ is contradictory. First you say that Allah has not left us with any unanswered questions. Than you say that we cannot find answers.

The problem is that you need ILM (knowledge) to be able to find answers, which layman (like you and me) dont have. This is why we need learned men like Mujtahids and Marjas to find answers for us and that is why we need them and follow them. The whole institution of Ijtehad and taqlid is for this purpose. The institution that you are against.

When we asked you questions, you had no answers..... why because your theory of bypassing learned scholars is a flop. And not because there are no answers in the book of Allah or hadith.

And no, we dont ask just any "momin brother" to find answers, we find a learned scholar (called Mujtahid or Marja). They find answers for us (called fatwas) and explain their findings during lectures (called dars e kharij).

So my dear friend, as you can see, you have proved your own theory (of finding answers yourself and asking any momin brother) wrong. There is no escape from Ijtehad and Taqlid. No bypass.

Got it!

May Allah azwj keep you ignorant. Is the narrator of ahadees not a Momin brother. Did you see the video; ijtehad is a Jahal according to ayatollah aqeel ul gharavi

The concept of Ijtihad is so logical, I wonder how one cannot see it..

Why is it that in matters of health one goes to the doctor, in matters of maths and chemistry one goes to a teacher, in matters of money one goes to a financial expert, etc.. but when one is ignorant in terms of religious duties he should not inquire from a specialst in the field (or the most knowledgeable, 'marja')..

And if you question the issue of trusting him, then I ask how come you don't question the doctor when he gives you a medication of which you have no knowledge, or the financial expert gives you an advice on the stock market, etc.. similarly, my knowledge of deducing ahkam from Quran and Hadith is very poor, so when the best person in the field, one who has studied the matters for 20+ years, tells me something, I think its only logically for me to listen to him and follow him in my religious duties! (Fiqh)

+ you come accross as one who follows Ameerul Momeneen and the Holy Imam (s)? Did you know that not only was Ijtihad practiced during the times of the Imams (s) but it was approved AND instructed by the Holy personalities.

Just to share some Hadith:

'Abd al‑'Aziz ibn Muhtadi said: "I asked Aba al‑Hasan al‑Rida Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, 'I am unable to meet you every time, so from whom should I take my religious instruction?” 'Take if from Yunus ibn 'Abd al‑Rahman,' said the Imam Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã." (Wasa'il al‑Shi'ah, vol. 18,eleventh of the chapters on sifatal‑qadi, hadith 34)

Shu'ayb says: "I said to al‑'Imam al‑Sadiq Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, `Often we have to ask about something; whom should we ask? 'The Imam said, `Ask al‑'Asadi (Abu Basir)."' (Ibid.)

In Usd al­-ghabah (vol. 4, p.197) it is reported that Imam `Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, while appoint­ing his cousin Qutham ibn al‑'Abbas as governor of Makkah, said to him:

"Give fatwa to the initiated and teach the ignorant"

Al‑'Imam al‑Sadiq (A) is reported to have said to Aban ibn Taghlib (Jami' al‑ruwat, vol. I, p.9):

"Sit in the Mosque of Madinah and give fatwas to the people, for I love the like of you to be seen amongst my Shi'ah."

And IF you're really interested, here's some good reads:

http://www.al-islam....ijtihad/1.htm#5

http://www.al-islam....ijtihad/4.htm#5

Do you think Ijtehad means giving fatwas? You are new here, so welcome and keep learning.

Read this http://www.*******.org/hadiths/judgement

Ijtehaad means Qiyas in other words which is Haraam in making new laws which are not made by Allah azwj. And I have also replied to the ahadees you quoted in your mail. But, I would like to present few ahadees first on Issuing fatwas.

Imam Jafar as Sadiq a.s.said : Giving judgement is not permissible for someone who has not been endowed by Allah (SWT) with the qualities of inner purity, sincerity in both his hidden and visible actions, and a proof from his Lord in every state. This is because whoever has judged has decreed, and decree is only valid by the permission of Allah (SWT) and by His proof. Whoever is liberal in his judgement, without having made a proper examination, is ignorant and will be taken to task for his ignorance and will be burdened with his judgement as the tradition indicates. Knowledge is a light, which Allah (SWT) casts into the heart of whomsoever He wills.

The Holy Prophet (peace be upon him and his family) said,

1. ‘Whoever is boldest among you in judging is also the most insolent to Allah (SWT)’.

2. Does not the judge know that he is the one who has come between Allah (SWT) and His bondsmen, and that he is wavering between the Garden and the Fire?

Sufyan ibn ‘Uyaynah said, ‘How can anyone else benefit from my knowledge if I have denied myself its benefit?’

It is inappropriate for anyone to judge on what is permissible (halal) and what is forbidden (haram) among creation,

a.) Except for one who causes the people of his time, his village, and his city to follow the truth through obedience to the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him and his family).

Who recognizes what is applicable of his judgement.

The Holy Prophet (peace be upon him and his family) said, ‘It is because giving judgement is such a tremendous affair, in which there is no place for “hopefully”, “perhaps” or “may be”.’

The Commander of the Faithful said to a judge,

“Do you know the difference between those verses of the Quran which abrogate and those which are abrogated?”

Sufyan Ibn Uyanah said: ‘No’.

‘Do you have a command of the intentions of Allah (SWT) in the parables of the Quran?’

Sufyan Ibn Uyanah said: ‘No’.

‘Then you have perished and caused others to perish,’ the Commander of the Faithful replied.

A judge needs to know the various meanings of the Quran, the truth of the Holy Prophet’s (peace be upon him and his family) way, the inward indications, courtesies, consensus and disagreements, and to be familiar with the bases of what they agree upon and disagree about. Then he must have acute discrimination, sound action, wisdom, and precaution. If he has these things, then let him judge.

It is related that Tha’labah al-Asadi asked the Messenger of Allah about this verse: íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇú Úóáóíúßõãú ÃóäÝõÓóßõãú áÇó íóÖõÑøõßõã ãøóä Öóáøó ÅöÐóÇ ÇåúÊóÏóíúÊõãú O you who believe! Take care of your souls; he who errs cannot hurt you when you are on the right way. (Q. 5:105)

The Messenger of Allah said, ‘Enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and be forbearing in whatever afflicts you, until such time when you see meanness obeyed and passions followed, and when everyone will have conceit about their own opinion, then you should concern yourself only with yourself, and ignore the affairs of the common people.’

A person who enjoins what is good

a) Needs to be knowledgeable about what is permissible and what is forbidden.

He must be free from his personal inclinations regarding what he enjoins and forbids.

c) Give good counsel to people.

d) Be merciful and compassionate to them, and call them with gentleness in a very clear manner, while recognizing their different characters so that he can put each in his proper place.

e) He must see the intrigues of the self and the machinations of Satan.

f) He must be patient in whatever befalls him, and must not seek compensation from people for that which he instructs them in, nor complain about them.

g) He should not make use of vehemence or passion.

h) He should not become angry for his own sake.

I) He should make his intention purely for Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, and seek His help and desire Him.

j) But if people oppose him and are harsh to him, he must be patient; and if they agree with him and accept his verdict, he must be thankful, entrusting his affair to Allah (SWT) and looking to his own faults.

Taken from Misbah us Sharia.

There are many ahadis in Man la Yazharul Faqih about not issuing fatwas.

However this is given as proof of giving fatwas

RIJAAL IBN DAWOOD – 4 / 10

The Holy Imam Muhammad Al Baqir (a.s.) said to Aban ibn tuglab: ‘Sit yourself in the mosque of Kufa and give Fatwas to the people. I love to see people like you among my Shiites.’

RIJAAL ALLAMAH HILLI (1 / 21) & RIJAAL AL NAJJASHI (7 / 10) & AL FIHRIST AL TOOSI (51 / 17

The Holy Imam Muhammad Al Baqir (a.s.) said to Aban: ‘Sit yourself in the mosque of Medina and give Fatwas to people. I love to see people like you among my Shiites.’

1. The first obvious difference is the mention of the mosque. Was it kufa or was it Medina?

2. Secondly, did you notice that NONE of these sources ever mention ANY narrators whatsoever?

3. How on earth did the anyone accept these Ahadeeth when there are no narrators mentioned anywhere when the Mujtahids consider themselves to be experts in the science of Ilm Ul Rijaal (The knowledge of the narrators)?

WASAAIL US SHIA – VOL 27 H 33294

So, let us see what the Holy Imam (a.s.) has said about Aban Bin Tablugh.

Muhammad Bin Ali Bin Al Husayn has narrated from Aban Bin Uthman quoting the Holy Imam Ja’far Al Sadiq (a.s.) that: ‘Surely Aban Bin Taghlub has narrated from me numerous narrations, so tell me what he has narrated to you from me.’

RIJAAL AL NAJJASHI – (7 / 11)

In the compilation of Muhammad Bin Abdul Rahman Bin Fanti between the book of the commentary of Aban and the book of Abu Rouk Atiya Bin Al Harith and Muhammad Bin Al Sa’ib and made it one book and said that Abul Hassan Ali Bin Ahmad said that Muhammad Bin Al Hassan narrated to him from Al Hassan Bin Mateel from Muhammad Bin Al Husayn Al Ziyaat from Safwan Bin Yahya and others from Aban Bin Uthman from Abu Abdillah (a.s.): ‘Surely Aban Bin Tablugh was a narrator of thirty thousand Ahadeeth.

So the Imams ordered them to issue fatawa based on ahadees not based on Ijtehaad.

Ya Ali Madad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^

You are stuck with the idea that Ijtehad means qiyas and personal opinion. Yes, that it what it means in sunni school and it is prohibited.

Ijtehad in Shia school means doing research and issuing fatwas based on Quran and hadith according to the teachings of Masoomeen (as). This is what our pious Marjas do.

But you want to live in an state of delusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no doubt that Qiyas is not permitted in Shi'i Islam...

But Ijtehad doesn't mean Qiyas, I'm afraid.

Ijtehad according to the lexicographers, is derived from `juhd', which means employment of effort or endeavour in performing a cer­tain activity.

Hence we can say that: Ijtehad is to put effort in deriving and determining ahkam from the sources, by a capable individual

i.e. in my words, its to use the quran and hadith to bring to light the shari'a in a way that people who haven't got the capacity can benefit/apply and be lead to the right path.

It's a world different with Qiyas which really is to pass judgement. Ijtehad is to take something and make it easy for others.

My humble opinion anyway...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^ Akhi, no matter what you say he wont listen.

He will listen only to his bosses who have programmed him to keep repeating that Ijtehad means qiyas. His agenda is to enter different threads and change the subject to attack Ijtehad and taqlid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

Ya Ali Madad

An Imam (leader) is the title given to our 12 Imams as they are the Leaders of Islam after the Prophet Muhammed (saw).

A Sayyid is a decendant of the prophet through these Imams.

An Ayatullah is a highly respected, educated and knowledgable person who has devoted his life to Islam. He is given this title after he has reached a certain level in the teachings of Islam.

A Marja is an Ayatullah people choose to help them make decisions in life.

Just to make it clear that noone has to do Taqleed (following a Marja). If u dont do Taqleed it doesnt mean ur going to hell. People can choose to do Taqleed if they feel that they are not able to make certain decisions in there own lives through their own research.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to make it clear that noone has to do Taqleed (following a Marja). If u dont do Taqleed it doesnt mean ur going to hell. People can choose to do Taqleed if they feel that they are not able to make certain decisions in there own lives through their own research.

I don't think I would agree with that.

Taqlid is not following someone in as you say "decision in their lives" .. Marj'a are not people who sit there and make decision on what you should do with your life!

Taqlid is to follow someone in matters of shari'ah, i.e. specific rulings and regulation in the subject of fiqh. For instance the rules on salaat, zakaat, Hajj, fasting, marriage, etc.. They just bring to you the regulation that Allah (swt) has specified in the Quran and from the AhlulBayt (s).

So you don't follow a marja for mundane life decision, nor for aqaid and beliefs.. Only in terms of sharia' and only because you can't do it. Hence, once someone is able to derive rulings from Quran and hadith he is not allowed to do taqlid anymore!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...