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In the Name of God بسم الله

Marrying More Than One Woman.

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  • Advanced Member

wasalam.gif

According to many lectures I have listened to and to most scholars, marriage is allowed four times based on the following conditions:

  • If your wife cannot have children
  • If you cannot have sexual intercourse with your wife because she has an infection
  • If your wife does not let you have sexual intercourse without a reason

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wasalam.gif

According to many lectures I have listened to and to most scholars, marriage is allowed four times based on the following conditions:

  • If your wife cannot have children
  • If you cannot have sexual intercourse with your wife because she has an infection
  • If your wife does not let you have sexual intercourse without a reason

All of that is nonsense, and no scholar worth his turban would claim such a thing.

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I'm not sure if he actually said all this or you're as usual again putting words in his mouth (I don't have the time to go through hour long lectures, sorry), but if he did, then it's obvious that people need to stop listening to him. Period.

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Guest Mushu

wasalam.gif

According to many lectures I have listened to and to most scholars, marriage is allowed four times based on the following conditions:

  • If your wife cannot have children
  • If you cannot have sexual intercourse with your wife because she has an infection
  • If your wife does not let you have sexual intercourse without a reason

Actually, you're wife has to have sex with you no matter what (unless shes on her period). Its wajib on her to have sex with her husband if he asks her to.

And as far as i know, there are no conditions. If you want to marry more wives, you can. The max is 4 though.

Also, you cant marry more tgan one wife if its against the laws of the country you reside in, eg, the UK.

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Give me one reason why a man would need to marry more than one wife excluding the reasons I listed.

During the war of ??? (forgot which one), a large army was targeting the Muslims so the Prophet ordered his companions to stay in the village and only ordered a few to go with him because he feared that they would attack their village. The companions didn't listen and decided to go with the Prophet. And so, the other army killed many Muslim men. There were many widows and orphan females left without any guardians and were threatened with rape by the other army so the verse on polygamy was revealed. This asked the men that could afford it, to look after other women by getting married to them. Just listen to the lectures I posted, explains everything.

Besides, many things mentioned in the Quran are conditional.

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2. Need of Having More Than One Wife

The first category of people who opt for having more than one wife are those whose first wife is ill and is unable to satisfy their sexual desires and is also physically incapable of performing the household chores. In such a situation the husband is forced to marry a second wife. The institution of marriage is considered to be very important and necessary in Islam. Christianity strictly enforces monogamy, hence its followers are facing a lot of problems. The second category is that of people whose wives are physiologically incapable of bearing children. In such cases both husband and wife desire a child. But it is very rare that such wives agree to the husband bringing home another wife to mother a child. I appeal to such women to arrange a second marriage for their husbands. They can look for a suitable girl to adjust with the family and live amicably.

3. Marriage For Carnal Satisfaction

Some men opt for polygamy to satisfy their lust. They think that more than one wife will provide a variety to them. Despite having a wife at home, they marry a second wife, and then a third. If possible they make a haremfor themselves. This attitude arises from a very serious moral problem. The pursuit of these desires pushes a person into a dangerous valley because such desires can never be fulfilled; the person always wants more and more. There is no end to it. If you try to fulfil your desire, you will never be fully satisfied.

Imam Jafar al-Sadiqsays that even if a person has a quantity of gold and silver equal to that of a river, he will not be satisfied. Similar is the case of the sexual instinct, the more you try to satisfy it, the more you will crave for it. Thus we find that the caliphs of the Ummayad and Abbasid clans had made special dens of vice, with hundreds of women, but they always wanted to add more. The more they tried to satisfy their carnal lust, the more they craved for it. But, what is the source of this craving? Psychologists say that when men stare at women, chase them, when women move around without hijab, boldly look at and talk with namahram men, then the sexual lust is aroused. Once this happens, a man who has a beautiful and young wife, marries a second and a third; and even then continues to stare at young girls, and is still not satisfied! He dreams of setting up a harem like that of Haroun al Rashid.Similarly, those inappropriately dressed women who talk and laugh with and pay attention tonamahram men are, according to the psychologists, in a very dangerous situation. Once a woman lands in this condition, she is not shy of exposing even her sensitive body parts like the hair, bosom and the arms to namahram men. For example, we often find young women going to shops wearing sleeveless shirts, so that the shopkeeper can see her bare arms.. Similarly some women sit out in the streets without covering themselves with achador.

Psychologists say that the cause of all these conditions is the craving of the sex instinct in the human race. We also come across some old men, who are sexually weak, but stare at young girls with lustful eyes. If such a person is a shop keeper, he stares at more than a hundred young girls a day and glances at women with lustful eyes. Islam considers this to be a very dangerous situation. For a man and especially for a woman to be lounging in the street is a wrong act, especially when she is without proper hijab. Such a woman has no character. A respectable woman would not be out in the streets without proper hijab. She would be in her house, caring for her children, and her home. If she has some free time, she would read a good book, or listen to a religious cassette. Another problem is that when two or three women get together they must backbite, and accuse others falsely. Such women should know that Hadhrat Fatima Zahra (s.a) is not pleased with them. If such women claim to be the slaves of Hadhrat Zahra (s.a), they are lying because Hadhrat Zahra (s.a) has nothing to do with such women.

Going back to our topic, the basis of the second type of polygamy is a craving for sex. When a person practices polygamy only for sexual lust, he is not only cheating others but is also cheating himself. He says that he is remarrying for reward. In fact he only exposes himself to retribution because he wants to attain a reward by lying. He is really marrying only to satisfy his lust. The moralists condemn such marriages. Beware and don't make yourselves the slaves of your desires. Don't become engrossed in satisfying your hearts desires. Don't fill your stomachs to the full, do not sleep too much, do not be lazy, and do not become talkative. Keep to the path of moderation; know that marrying for lust is wrong; the educators of ethics condemn such marriages.

http://www.al-islam.org/islamicfamily-life/16.htm

:)

Edited by El Peace
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Guest Mushu

2. Need of Having More Than One Wife

The first category of people who opt for having more than one wife are those whose first wife is ill and is unable to satisfy their sexual desires and is also physically incapable of performing the household chores. In such a situation the husband is forced to marry a second wife. The institution of marriage is considered to be very important and necessary in Islam. Christianity strictly enforces monogamy, hence its followers are facing a lot of problems. The second category is that of people whose wives are physiologically incapable of bearing children. In such cases both husband and wife desire a child. But it is very rare that such wives agree to the husband bringing home another wife to mother a child. I appeal to such women to arrange a second marriage for their husbands. They can look for a suitable girl to adjust with the family and live amicably.

3. Marriage For Carnal Satisfaction

Some men opt for polygamy to satisfy their lust. They think that more than one wife will provide a variety to them. Despite having a wife at home, they marry a second wife, and then a third. If possible they make a haremfor themselves. This attitude arises from a very serious moral problem. The pursuit of these desires pushes a person into a dangerous valley because such desires can never be fulfilled; the person always wants more and more. There is no end to it. If you try to fulfil your desire, you will never be fully satisfied.

Imam Jafar al-Sadiqsays that even if a person has a quantity of gold and silver equal to that of a river, he will not be satisfied. Similar is the case of the sexual instinct, the more you try to satisfy it, the more you will crave for it. Thus we find that the caliphs of the Ummayad and Abbasid clans had made special dens of vice, with hundreds of women, but they always wanted to add more. The more they tried to satisfy their carnal lust, the more they craved for it. But, what is the source of this craving? Psychologists say that when men stare at women, chase them, when women move around without hijab, boldly look at and talk with namahram men, then the sexual lust is aroused. Once this happens, a man who has a beautiful and young wife, marries a second and a third; and even then continues to stare at young girls, and is still not satisfied! He dreams of setting up a harem like that of Haroun al Rashid.Similarly, those inappropriately dressed women who talk and laugh with and pay attention tonamahram men are, according to the psychologists, in a very dangerous situation. Once a woman lands in this condition, she is not shy of exposing even her sensitive body parts like the hair, bosom and the arms to namahram men. For example, we often find young women going to shops wearing sleeveless shirts, so that the shopkeeper can see her bare arms.. Similarly some women sit out in the streets without covering themselves with achador.

Psychologists say that the cause of all these conditions is the craving of the sex instinct in the human race. We also come across some old men, who are sexually weak, but stare at young girls with lustful eyes. If such a person is a shop keeper, he stares at more than a hundred young girls a day and glances at women with lustful eyes. Islam considers this to be a very dangerous situation. For a man and especially for a woman to be lounging in the street is a wrong act, especially when she is without proper hijab. Such a woman has no character. A respectable woman would not be out in the streets without proper hijab. She would be in her house, caring for her children, and her home. If she has some free time, she would read a good book, or listen to a religious cassette. Another problem is that when two or three women get together they must backbite, and accuse others falsely. Such women should know that Hadhrat Fatima Zahra (s.a) is not pleased with them. If such women claim to be the slaves of Hadhrat Zahra (s.a), they are lying because Hadhrat Zahra (s.a) has nothing to do with such women.

Going back to our topic, the basis of the second type of polygamy is a craving for sex. When a person practices polygamy only for sexual lust, he is not only cheating others but is also cheating himself. He says that he is remarrying for reward. In fact he only exposes himself to retribution because he wants to attain a reward by lying. He is really marrying only to satisfy his lust. The moralists condemn such marriages. Beware and don't make yourselves the slaves of your desires. Don't become engrossed in satisfying your hearts desires. Don't fill your stomachs to the full, do not sleep too much, do not be lazy, and do not become talkative. Keep to the path of moderation; know that marrying for lust is wrong; the educators of ethics condemn such marriages.

http://www.al-islam.org/islamicfamily-life/16.htm

:)

Hmmmmmm....

Very interesting. Perhaps you're right :lol:

Ill have to do some more research!

Btw, out of interest, which marja3 do you qalid?

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(salam),

Give me one reason why a man would need to marry more than one wife excluding the reasons I listed.

Because the Qur'an allows it in very clear words, without putting any conditions (not any of the conditions you put, anyway).

æóÅöäú ÎöÝúÊõãú ÃóáóøÇ ÊõÞúÓöØõæÇ Ýöí ÇáúíóÊóÇãóìٰ ÝóÇäúßöÍõæÇ ãóÇ ØóÇÈó áóßõãú ãöäó ÇáäöøÓóÇÁö ãóËúäóìٰ æóËõáóÇËó æóÑõÈóÇÚó ۖ ...{3}

And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four;... (4:3)

This is the law for permanent marriage. For temporary marriage, you are allowed more than four women, according to ahadith.

wa (salam)

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I'm not sure if he actually said all this or you're as usual again putting words in his mouth (I don't have the time to go through hour long lectures, sorry), but if he did, then it's obvious that people need to stop listening to him. Period.

That really is the impression Sayed Ammar gives in the first lecture (I don't have time to listen to the second, which I assume is similar anyway). Just skip forward to around 55% of the lecture to the part where he lists the conditions.

In general, I like Sayed Ammar's lectures, but this was not one of his best. He wasted far too much time with irrelevant discussions, and there were also what seemed to me to be several mistakes in the lecture (aside from the misleading conditions he gives for polygyny) :

- He said that the Church of the Later Day Saints is an offshoot of the Mormon school of Christianity, when the Church of the LDS is the official name of Mormonism (what he should have said was that the Fundamentalist Church of the LDS is an offshoot of Mormonism). Mormonism is also not recognised as part of Christianity by any Christian Church that I know of.

- He mispronounced the word 'polygyny' (making it sound like polygamy with an 'n').

- Gives the impression that the Prophet (pbuh) wanted to abolish polygamy, but couldn't do it in one go due to the social norms of the time.

- Says that polygamy not the norm, and gives as proof the marriages of the Prophet (pbuh) to Bibi Khadija (as) and Imam Ali to Bibi Fatima (as). I think it is obvious why these are not the marriages that should have been used. Instead, why not give the marriages of the other Imams?

- Says that when you take a second wife, everything you do with them has to be exactly the same: if you give $1000 to one wife, you have to give $1000 to another, if you spend one night with one wife, you have to spend a night with the other. I'm fairly sure this isn't the case, especially with regard to the number of nights you spend with them.

(Shaykh Saduq narrates: ) My father, Allah have mercy on him, said: Ahmad b. Idris narrated to us. He said: Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from his father from Safwan b. Yahya from `Abdullah b. Miskan from al-Hasan b. Ziyad. He said: I asked Abu `Abdillah (as) about the man who has two women, one of them who is more beloved to him than the other. Is it for him that he give preference to her with something? He said: Yes, it is for him that he give her three nights and the other a (single) night, for it is for him that he marry four women. So he is to put his night where he wants.

And by this isnad from al-Hasan b. Ziyad from Abu `Abdillah (as). He said: It is for the man that he give preference to some of his women over some, so long as his women are not four.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/marriage/adalat-in-polygyny

I've also heard/read that it is not necessary to maintain strict material equality either, although I can't back this up right now.

Unfortunately, I have noticed that Sayed Ammar has a tendency to be very politically correct in his lectures (or the recorded ones anyway) when dealing with certain topics. Look at his lecture on Aisha's age at the time of her marriage to the Prophet (pbuh) for example. He basically repeats word for word the discredited modern Sunni arguments for the age being much older than 9. Or how he deals with muta (http://sayedammar.com/RAMA%202009%20POP%20OUT/ramadhan2009popf.html). Just yesterday I was watching an interview he gave to brother Zeshan Zaveri, and even there he came across as a bit apologetic. The first reason he mentioned for wanting to do muta was as a form of engagement. :huh:

By the way, has anyone else seen the video on the homepage of his website? A bit worrying if you ask me.

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I don't think we have the right to judge. Sayed Ammar talks with logic and gives reasoning to what he says. It is up to you whether you want to believe him or not.

I follow Sayed Ali Sistani.

The Quran did not put conditions as such, but the scholars who interpret the Quran have because one must look at context and situation before interpreting a Quranic verse in their own.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't think we have the right to judge. Sayed Ammar talks with logic and gives reasoning to what he says. It is up to you whether you want to believe him or not.

I follow Sayed Ali Sistani.

The Quran did not put conditions as such, but the scholars who interpret the Quran have because one must look at context and situation before interpreting a Quranic verse in their own.

the conditions you mentioned are false

polygyny is mustahab (recoemded) based on many scholars and at least allowed based on all scholars

whatever that god allows no creature has the right to disallow otherwise that creature will be fuel for hell fire for challenging god.

majority of the prophets and imams have practiced it and their wives were not ill or any of the nonsense that you mentioned in those made up conditions.

alot of these conditions arose to apologize to the west and to apologize to jealous and egocentric feminists.

real muslims only apologize to god almighty

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the conditions you mentioned are false

polygyny is mustahab (recoemded) based on many scholars and at least allowed based on all scholars

whatever that god allows no creature has the right to disallow otherwise that creature will be fuel for hell fire for challenging god.

majority of the prophets and imams have practiced it and their wives were not ill or any of the nonsense that you mentioned in those made up conditions.

alot of these conditions arose to apologize to the west and to apologize to jealous and egocentric feminists.

real muslims only apologize to god almighty

salam.gif

Why would they be false? Majority of scholars agree on this. These aren't my own words.

The Prophet pbuh.gifand the Imams as.gif married many to look after widows or orphans who needed a man in their life to be able to live. They did out of piety and sincerity. Not because they "felt" like it or they got sick of their other wives. And the Prophet pbuh.gif only married other women after the death of Khadija as.gif which proved that he loved her. And he married the others after her death because they were a command from Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. And last time I checked, the Prophet pbuh.gif only married widows and women whose situation was poor. He didn't marry out of his own will.

So if you believe a woman has no right to be jealous of the wife her husband marries than you are wrong. Because if he does unconditionally, it obviously proves he doesn't love her because the Prophet pbuh.gif never married another women in the presence of Khadija as.gif.

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salam.gif

Why would they be false? Majority of scholars agree on this. These aren't my own words.

The Prophet pbuh.gifand the Imams as.gif married many to look after widows or orphans who needed a man in their life to be able to live. They did out of piety and sincerity. Not because they "felt" like it or they got sick of their other wives. And the Prophet pbuh.gif only married other women after the death of Khadija as.gif which proved that he loved her. And he married the others after her death because they were a command from Allah سبحانه وتعالى. And last time I checked, the Prophet pbuh.gif only married widows and women whose situation was poor. He didn't marry out of his own will.

Aisha was neither a widow nor poor. And what about Safiyya bint Huyayy and Maria al-Qibtiyya?

So if you believe a woman has no right to be jealous of the wife her husband marries than you are wrong. Because if he does unconditionally, it obviously proves he doesn't love her because the Prophet pbuh.gif never married another women in the presence of Khadija as.gif.

So you think the Prophet (pbuh) didn't love any of his other wives? What about the Imams (as) that married multiple wives (). They didn't love their wives either?

And how exactly do the marriages of the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) fit in with your three conditions?

* If your wife cannot have children

* If you cannot have sexual intercourse with your wife because she has an infection

* If your wife does not let you have sexual intercourse without a reason

As for the jealousy of a woman:

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub (in al-Kafi) from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Khalid from Muhammad b. `Ali from Muhammad b. al-Fudayl from Sa`d al-Jalab from Abu `Abdillah (عليه السلام). He said: Verily Allah `azza wa jalla has not made jealousy for women, only the infidel women(al-munkirat) are jealous. As to the believing women, then no. Allah has only made jealousy for the men because four (wives) and what their right hand owns are permitted to the men and He has not made for the woman but her husband. So if she wants someone else with him, she is according to Allah an adulteress.

2 – And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father, and from Muhammad b. Isma`il from al-Fadl b. Shadhan, all from Ibn Abi `Umayr from `Abd ar-Rahman b. al-Hajjaj going up to him. He said: While the Messenger of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله) was sitting, a naked woman came until she was standing before him. So she said: O Messenger of Allah, I have fornicated, so purify me. He said: A man came racing after her, and he put upon her a piece of clothing. So he said: Who is she [in relation to you]? So he said: My companion (i.e. wife), O Messenger of Allah. I was alone with my slave-girl, so she did what you see. He said: Take (lit. add) her with you. Then he said: Verily jealousy does not see the uppermost of the valley from its lowermost.

3 – And from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Abi `Abdillah from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from Yusuf b. Hammad from the one whom he mentioned from Jabir from Abu Ja`far (عليه السلام). He said: Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Verily, when women are jealous they are angry, and when they are angry they do kufr except for the Muslimat from them.

4 – And from them from Ahmad from his father from Muhammad b. Sinan from Khalid al-Qalanisi. He said: A man mentioned his wife to Abu `Abdillah (عليه السلام) praised her much. So Abu `Abdillah (عليه السلام) said to him: Have you made her jealous (i.e. by another woman)? He said: No. He said: Then make her jealous. So he made her jealous and she remained (steady, firm). So he said to Abu `Abdillah (عليه السلام): I have made her jealous and she remained. So he said: She is as you say.

8 – Muhammad b. al-Husayn ar-Radi in Nahj al-Balagha. He said: Amir al-Mu’mineen (عليه السلام) said: The jealous of the woman is kufr, and the jealousy of the man is iman.

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/marriage/preliminaries/jealousy-in-women

Edited by Haider Husayn
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  • Advanced Member

Yeh I wasn't sure about the Prophet marrying widows or not hence I wrote "the last time I checked...". But thanks for clearing it up. :)

The Imams are infallible, they did it to help other women and spread Islam seeing as to the fact that they are infallible. They didn't do it out of desire. That is what I was trying to say.

The Prophet did love his other wives, but not the way he loved Khadija. This is mentioned in various ahadeeth.

The jealousy thing...not quite what I meant. Maybe jealousy was the wrong word...never mind. But thanks for those saying anyway. :)

salam.gif

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Yeh I wasn't sure about the Prophet marrying widows or not hence I wrote "the last time I checked...". But thanks for clearing it up. :)

The Imams are infallible, they did it to help other women and spread Islam seeing as to the fact that they are infallible. They didn't do it out of desire. That is what I was trying to say.

There were many reasons for why the Prophet (pbuh) married several wives, but I don't see a reason to think desire wasn't one of them. And by desire I mean it in the same sense as the reasons you take a first wife.

The Prophet did love his other wives, but not the way he loved Khadija. This is mentioned in various ahadeeth.

I agree with you that he loved Khadija (as) the most, but you implied that if someone takes a second wife, then that means he doesn't love his first. Clearly this can't be true, or else the Prophet (pbuh) would only have remarried once after the death of Khadija (as), or at least wouldn't have married any more after finding a wife he did love.

The jealousy thing...not quite what I meant. Maybe jealousy was the wrong word...never mind. But thanks for those saying anyway. :)

What did you mean then? It seems you were saying a wife has a right to be jealous if her husband takes another wife, which is directly contradicted by the ahadith I quoted.

salam.gif

(wasalam)

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I agree with you that he loved Khadija (as) the most, but you implied that if someone takes a second wife, then that means he doesn't love his first. Clearly this can't be true, or else the Prophet (pbuh) would only have remarried once after the death of Khadija (as), or at least wouldn't have married any more after finding a wife he did love

Because it was a command from Allah سبحانه وتعالى. From the lectures I've heard, they say that the Prophet only married because it was a command from Allah سبحانه وتعالى. And they also say that it wasn't out of desire. Same with the Imams, it wasn't simply out of desire.

But you implied that if someone takes a second wife, then that means he doesn't love his first. Clearly this can't be true, or else the Prophet pbuh.gif would have remarried in the presence of Khadija as.gif. No?

I can't explain what I meant in words. Lol, when I can I'll let you know.

Edited by El Peace
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Because it was a command from Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. From the lectures I've heard, they say that the Prophet only married because it was a command from Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. And they also say that it wasn't out of desire. Same with the Imams, it wasn't simply out of desire.

I don't trust anything these lecturers say about these 'controversial' subjects. Almost all of them try to be too politically correct. If someone brings forward a hadith stating that the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) only married out of a command from Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, then we can talk.

The fact is Allah (swt) has allowed men to marry up to four wives, so why should excuses be made when this is done. I don't see people making excuses for first marriages, so why for the second, third, and fourth?

But you implied that if someone takes a second wife, then that means he doesn't love his first. Clearly this can't be true, or else the Prophet pbuh.gif would have remarried in the presence of Khadija as.gif. No?

Perhaps the reason the Prophet (pbuh) and Imam Ali (as) didn't take other wives while married to Bibi Khadija and Bibi Fatima (as) is that they were married to two of the 4 leaders of the women of Paradise. What other woman could compete with that? More interesting would be the example of the other Imams (as).

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I don't trust anything these lecturers say about these 'controversial' subjects. Almost all of them try to be too politically correct. If someone brings forward a hadith stating that the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) only married out of a command from Allah سبحانه وتعالى, then we can talk.

The fact is Allah (swt) has allowed men to marry up to four wives, so why should excuses be made when this is done. I don't see people making excuses for first marriages, so why for the second, third, and fourth?

Lol. Maybe the "excuse" if that's what you like to call it for the first marriage would be sexual desires or companionship or to settle...or all of these together. Who knows. But to marry again for sexual desires? That would be wrong because you can fulfill your sexual desires with your first wife, unless otherwise (which was one of the conditions). To marry again for companionship would also be the same. And to marry again to settle down...well you've already settled down brother. I don't see how it works if there are no conditions to polygamy.

And that is the reason the scholars have put these rules. I quoted a few paragraphs from al-islam.org in this thread. This website is very trustworthy and applies Qur'an, Hadith and logic into every thing it mentions.

Good point about Khadija and Fatima as.gif being Holy women. But that doesn't defeat the purpose of the Prophet marrying many wives later on because it was a command from Allah سبحانه وتعالى. If you don'y trust anybody on these topics, that is entirely up to you brother.

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Lol. Maybe the "excuse" if that's what you like to call it for the first marriage would be sexual desires or companionship or to settle...or all of these together. Who knows. But to marry again for sexual desires? That would be wrong because you can fulfill your sexual desires with your first wife, unless otherwise (which was one of the conditions). To marry again for companionship would also be the same. And to marry again to settle down...well you've already settled down brother. I don't see how it works if there are no conditions to polygamy.

The only purpose for marriage isn't sexual desires and companionship. Maybe you want to marry a wife who is more religious than the wives you already have, and can help draw you closer to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. Maybe you want more children and your current wives are too old, or don't want any more children. There are lots of reasons to get married, and they might not all be fullfilled by the women you are currently married to.

And that is the reason the scholars have put these rules. I quoted a few paragraphs from al-islam.org in this thread. This website is very trustworthy and applies Qur'an, Hadith and logic into every thing it mentions.

Too bad what you quoted didn't reference much of the Qur'an, ahadith, or examples from the lives of the Masumeen (as). Not everything on al-islam.org is of the same quality, and I think everything should always be backed up with reference to primary sources.

Good point about Khadija and Fatima as.gif being Holy women. But that doesn't defeat the purpose of the Prophet marrying many wives later on because it was a command from Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. If you don'y trust anybody on these topics, that is entirely up to you brother.

I trust people that make constant reference to the words of Allah (swt) and the Ahlulbayt (as), not people that try to make excuses for the aspects of Islam not accepted by non-Muslims, or Muslims have have fallen under the influence of non-Islamic culture.

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The only purpose for marriage isn't sexual desires and companionship. Maybe you want to marry a wife who is more religious than the wives you already have, and can help draw you closer to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. Maybe you want more children and your current wives are too old, or don't want any more children. There are lots of reasons to get married, and they might not all be fullfilled by the women you are currently married to.

That's exactly my point. They were mentioned in the conditions.

Too bad what you quoted didn't reference much of the Qur'an, ahadith, or examples from the lives of the Masumeen (as). Not everything on al-islam.org is of the same quality, and I think everything should always be backed up with reference to primary sources.

Well follow up the link and read more. I'm sure you'll find Quran and ahadith to justify their reasoning.

I trust people that make constant reference to the words of Allah (swt) and the Ahlulbayt (as), not people that try to make excuses for the aspects of Islam not accepted by non-Muslims, or Muslims have have fallen under the influence of non-Islamic culture.

Why do you keep thinking they are "excuses"? They are justification from the Quran, hadith and history of Islam. Noone agrees with changing religion for a certain type of people. Besides, if a non-Muslim was to approach you and ask you about polygamy are you going to say "yep, a man can marry four wives if he wishes and noone can stop him" or would you provide them with a justification to why and when it is okay. When someone tells you something is halal you cannot just believe it. You must always ask why. It's the same with polygamy. One may ask themselves what is the reason polygamy is allowed in Islam? What purpose does it serve? Why is it implemented? If it is on no purpose then you would reject it. But alhamdullilah, Islam has none of that.

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I don't think we have the right to judge. Sayed Ammar talks with logic and gives reasoning to what he says. It is up to you whether you want to believe him or not.

I follow Sayed Ali Sistani.

The Quran did not put conditions as such, but the scholars who interpret the Quran have because one must look at context and situation before interpreting a Quranic verse in their own.

Lying is a sin in Islam, and to speak with out knowledge of some thing or with out ever actually having rsearched it is a sin.

Sayed Seestani does not state the "conditions" that you gave for taking a second wife, if you can find these conditions any where please share it with us, however you will not find them.... as they are non existent.

The article that you posted only lists reasons why some people may enter in to polygamy, not legally binding conditions.

Here is some thing for you to read that will (inshaAllah) educate you further on this matter:

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/marriage/mahr/invalid-conditions-in-the-marriage-contract

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That's exactly my point. They were mentioned in the conditions.

As brother Al-Mufeed pointed out, there is a difference between reasons and conditions. The only condition on taking several wives is that you treat them fairly. The reasons you may have for taking them are many, and go way beyond the few you mentioned.

Well follow up the link and read more. I'm sure you'll find Quran and ahadith to justify their reasoning.

I doubt it, but I'll look anyway.

Why do you keep thinking they are "excuses"? They are justification from the Quran, hadith and history of Islam. Noone agrees with changing religion for a certain type of people.

Because they are excuses. Whenever I hear a speaker talk about muta and polygamy, most of what they say is very apologetic, trying to use extreme examples of why they are justified. And bear in mind that I am talking about lectures to Muslims here. All you hear is "Well, your wife might be barren", or "Muta can be used as a halal engagement". Quite frankly, such an attitude is pathetic. Just quote the ahadith, the examples from the ahlulbayt (as), say it like it is, and be done with it. These kind of spineless lectures simply reinforce the attitudes of the Shia masses who follow non-Islamic cultures.

Besides, if a non-Muslim was to approach you and ask you about polygamy are you going to say "yep, a man can marry four wives if he wishes and noone can stop him" or would you provide them with a justification to why and when it is okay.

We aren't talking about explaining things to non-Muslims, and neither should that be our concern at all when discussing these issues. If I was explaining it to non-Muslims, as I have in the past (and to born Muslims sadly), I would explain to them the benefits of it, and use logic. When people came up to Imam Ali (as) and asked him why a man could marry four wives, but not the other way around, he didn't say "Well, you know, we have to deal with Arab culture, etc", or "Men get jealous". Instead, he gave a staight-forward logical explanation, with no hint of an apology.

What I don't understand is why all this discussion is neccessary among Muslims.

When someone tells you something is halal you cannot just believe it. You must always ask why. It's the same with polygamy. One may ask themselves what is the reason polygamy is allowed in Islam? What purpose does it serve? Why is it implemented? If it is on no purpose then you would reject it. But alhamdullilah, Islam has none of that.

Actually, I don't agree. If you are a Muslim, you submitt to the will of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. If He, or the Prophet (pbuh), tells us something is halal or haraam, then it is. We don't need to question why. Do you need an explanation of why we shouldn't eat pork before you refrain from it? That's not to say that if we can't discuss possible reasons for things being halal or haraam, but we shouldn't use that the justification of why we accept it or reject it.

As Muslim, the question shouldn't be "why is polygamy allowed?", as if it is weird. Instead, we should wonder why others placed restrictions on themselves.

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  • 1 month later...

(bismillah)

(salam)

i wanted to know what is the law regarding marriage?

can you marry more than once?

if yes....

what are the conditions, and is there any limit?

(wasalam)

Shia islam is the best. So go on marry as many as you like. JUst remember any child frm mutah will be ur responsibility. So be safe and enjoy the fruit of life. :) roar!!!!!!!!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Salaam

Because they are excuses. Whenever I hear a speaker talk about muta and polygamy, most of what they say is very apologetic, trying to use extreme examples of why they are justified. And bear in mind that I am talking about lectures to Muslims here. All you hear is "Well, your wife might be barren", or "Muta can be used as a halal engagement". Quite frankly, such an attitude is pathetic. Just quote the ahadith, the examples from the ahlulbayt (as), say it like it is, and be done with it. These kind of spineless lectures simply reinforce the attitudes of the Shia masses who follow non-Islamic cultures.

I related so much to this quotation . I had a situation in a lecture,, me and my wife and others. I was saying that I want a second wife then a girl from the audience started attacking me.

"YOU HAVE NO RIGHT "

"YOU HAVE A BEAUTIFUL WIFE"

" ITS NOT A FARDH"

"YOU USE RELIGION FOR YOUR DESIRE"

I tried to respond and in my mind i wanted to say the following:

1) It is my right

2) yes its not a Fardh on me to do it but its a Fardh on you to accept it if i do it because its my god given right.

3) there are cases where it becomes Fardh namely if the man needs it or if the society needs "Fardh kefaie" or if the second wife needs.

amr bilmaroof and washing the dead and ijtihad and the Eid prayer are all "Fardh kefie" which means if others don't do them it becomes obligatory on you to do them. In our society people rejected polygyny and god has sanctioned it and no one is defending it so its Fardh kefie on people to do amr bilmaroof and defend it... Now what are the three different ways of amr bilmaroof and nahi an almunkar and whats the best way amongst those three??? The prophet prescribed this when he said " whoever sees a negative then let him change it with his hand and if he can not then with his tongue and if he can not then with his heart and that's the lowest level of faith"

so the best way of doing the wajib kefaie if to actually practice polygyny and go public with it to break the evil tradition against it...

the lecturer didnt allow me to say these things but he stopped me and i stopped because I thought he will take lead and defend that right... he went in circles and then he started giving extreme examples and asking her if she would agree with it .

he said " if you are in an island and he was the last man on earth and ....."

and so what if she said yes to that extreme case she might say no to many other legitimate cases

many people make up their own conditions like

1) your wife must be barren

2) you must be traveling

3) your wife must be sick

4) you must be the last man on earth

5) you have to be masoom otherwise you can not achieve the compulsory equality which god requested

6) second wife must be ugly and old or disabled

7) it must not be for desires

8) she must be a widow in need

9) it can only be in time of war

10) second wife must have orphans

11) if second wife christian she must not be religious because a true religious christian is not allowed to marry a muslim

12) she must not be a non religious christian because the verse says chaste women.

If any one noticed combining condition 11 and 12 will completely prohibit the marriage to christians ignoring a whole verse that was revealed to sanction the marriage to ahlulkitab in sourah almaeda

condition 5 also eliminates the verse that sanctions polygyny because if it was only sanctioned for masoomeen then the verse would be irrelevant and misleading if addressed to the public however we all know that the quran is addressed to the public and the Islamic laws applies across masoomeen and non masoomeen.

in reality none of the above conditions could be backed up and fadhallah and al khoie both made this very clear

abulqasim alkhoie said that " polygyny is mustahab even if you don't have the need for it and just you desire it "

and fadhallah was asked a question in alnadwa :

does the man have to have a reason to marry again?? he said " No he does not need to have any reason more than the fact that he desires to.

in reality a man can simply desire and the wife could be younger and he could be a non traveler and not the last man on earth and he still would be completely justified and legitimate to marry up to four but the hypocrites will invent a million excuse to prohibit the lawful of god.

Edited by alimohamad40
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the conditions you mentioned are false

polygyny is mustahab (recoemded) based on many scholars and at least allowed based on all scholars

whatever that god allows no creature has the right to disallow otherwise that creature will be fuel for hell fire for challenging god.

majority of the prophets and imams have practiced it and their wives were not ill or any of the nonsense that you mentioned in those made up conditions.

alot of these conditions arose to apologize to the west and to apologize to jealous and egocentric feminists.

real muslims only apologize to god almighty

LOL. Not a shred of truth in this anywhere. Alimohamad40, you continue to amuse me.

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(salam)

Can someone please provide me with a reference to just 1 marja` who has stated that polygamy can be practiced ONLY under certain conditions, such as the ones mentioned in this thread. I don't mean a website or a speaker, but a marja`.

thanks wassalam

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  • 1 year later...
  • Basic Members

I dont know much about any of this, but ive spent the past few days (without sleep) going through everything I can find on anything to so with islam wether it be from shia side or sunni side... which I still dont understand much about cept that they are 2 diff sides of same religion with few veriations.. Im a non mulsem women in canada.. and the man I met is a now "muslem revert" (his own words)

Im trying to understand all of this and make sence of something I know little about.. He wats to marry me - I have a 10 month old son and the possibility of not being able to bear anymore children for the fact that it could kill me.. however my organs for reprooduction still work.. I need to find a friend or someone who I can talk to who can teach me what I need to know.. I hate being ignorant about any subject.. to some ignorance is bliss.. not to me. I dont wish to be blind.. Ive always been the kind of person who wants to understand everyone or everything so I can treat everyone with the level of respect they deserve regardless of belifes or situations or backgrounds.

we were both born and grew up in the same town, In the country of canada .. there is 9 years difference between us.. he moved away long ago and married a japanese woman for 9 years, he tood me thier devorce was almost finalized they were not married by islam ways but by the courts (justice of the peace) in Japan. I found out that ontop of his plans to marry me, he has beensending money to his "ex wife"and a women I found out who lives in indonesia. He told em he was going there in spring and fall this year to "study" to be a scholar, I found out hes going to marry her in march and that hes staying married to his "ex wife" as well aswanting to marry me... he does not know that i know these things and that he has lied to me... he also stole a necklace I made my son when my son was born... i dont Know what to do or think... he told me if we marry I would be the only wife for the rest of our lives ect.. and to think hes getting married in march breaks my heart. its not out of jelousy or rage or resentment.. its out of the fact that I in my heart of hearts with all that I am belive that if you truly love someone you will be with that person and only that person and that does not stem from other religions ect just what feels right to me. Can someone help me to understand all this.. Im not sure what to do or belive.. I do love him :(

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