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Bhooka_Bhairiya

Female Mods/admins, Acceptable?

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Why are you hating on Yusif (as) ?

Demonstration of Usooli hatred for noble prophets (as).

You put long titles for priests but do not even recognize the Prophethood of Nabi Yusif (as).

You are outside the fold of akhbari Islaam.

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Guest Mushu

The bird said it was glorious, not God! And please do keep in mind the fact that Queen of Shiba was proud of her throne, so when later on she was invited to Sulayman's court, and when she looked at how magnificient the floor was, she humbled herself and became his consort, thus proving the superior status of Man over woman. From a queen to a consort in a matter of days.

No, she humbled herself to Allah (swt) not Sulayman (as).

Superiority of man over women? Then why are the Ahlul-Kisa' described as 'Fatima wa abiha, we ba'luha, we beniha' - 'Fatima and her father, and her husband, and her sons'. She is the central figure.

Demonstration of Usooli hatred for noble prophets (as).

You put long titles for priests but do not even recognize the Prophethood of Nabi Yusif (as).

You are outside the fold of akhbari Islaam.

I said (as). Which priests? :huh:

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No, she humbled herself to Allah (swt) not Sulayman (as).

was her throne glorious or the court of Sulayman? Your whole argument of a woman's throne being superior to that of a man is rendered invalid.

Superiority of man over women? Then why are the Ahlul-Kisa' described as 'Fatima wa abiha, we ba'luha, we beniha' - 'Fatima and her father, and her husband, and her sons'. She is the central figure.

I don't see it anywhere in Quran. Last Prophet had 4 daughters.

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Guest Jebreil

(bismillah)

(salam)

Clearly, anyone who transmits anything from an Infallible is representing the Infallible at that very moment and is an extension of their Proof and Authority. Fiqhi or non-Fiqhi. Man or Woman.

So, if a Forum Admin distinguishes between Ethical posts and unEthical posts using Hadith and Qur'an, without applying their own opinion, then that Forum Admin is at that moment an extension of the Infallible's Proof and Authority over us.

Here is a question: If a Woman quotes an authentic Hadith to apply in a given situation, would you reject her quote?

In that case, you would be rejecting the many Women who historically narrated from the Ahlulbayt.

Conclusion:

Admins must base all of their instructions on Hadith - and then what they will say would be authoritative, because it comes from the Infallible.

It is unimportant if the narrator, the spokesperson, (the means to an end), is a woman - it is the speech, the narration which is important - and that comes from the Infallible.

(wasalam)

Edited by Jebreil

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I said (as). Which priests? :huh:

You denied the Prophethood of Nabi Yusuf (as), because you only called him by his name and without a title!

See the titles you use for cardinals:

Original Master Khomeinee

Supreme Master Khameneyy

Grand Master Khooiee

Silent Master Seestaanee

Strict Master Khorasanee

Ex Master Saanei

Head Master Sheerazee

Disputed Master Fadlallah

Liberal Master Jannati

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You denied the Prophethood of Nabi Yusuf (as), because you only called him by his name and without a title!

See the titles you use for cardinals:

Original Master Khomeinee

Supreme Master Khameneyy

Grand Master Khooiee

Silent Master Seestaanee

Strict Master Khorasanee

Ex Master Saanei

Head Master Sheerazee

Disputed Master Fadlallah

Liberal Master Jannati

and what's your title - filthy foul mouth dog?

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Why is it so hard for Muslims to discuss without insulting, attacking, and bashing each other? Seriously, realize that in this very big world consisting of many many people there will be those who differ with you on matters, yes even matters of religion, so you better get use to it instead of just being angry about it. It will destroy yourself quicker than it will them.

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Instead of discussing this useless topic (which lets face it isn't all that relevant anyway - behind the screen it doesn't really matter whether the admin is a man or a woman, and in real life positions, despite all the feminist ranting and womens rights issues, there are still relatively very few women in positions of real authority) - weshould be focusing on the important issue of inappropriate interactions between men and women (especially the younger ones) for which both are responsible and just because a woman has a cloth over her head and a man has a beard on his face doesn't absolve them of their duties and the limits that Islam has set for them. I was shocked to see the way some young men and women were behaving with each other on a recent ziyarat trip as if hijab was merely limited to dresscode and not to speech and body language.

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It also makes no indication that it would not be, a person could possibly argue because the believer is asking the Imam (as) in that time period where there is their guidance present the man could only be asking in the context of that time (as there is no indication in any of the hadith so far that he was asking pertaining to future circumstances). So based on this logic that hadith would not be substantial in the claim that we cannot use logic in reasoning in applying law based on Al-Quran and the general rulings of the Imams (as).

You're just clutching on to straws here, holding on to "what ifs", "maybes" etc. Neither does the hadith make any indication of being limited in context, I even presented a hadith in my previous post to further prove it's not (while you've provided no ahadith to backup your claims). In fact, the Imams(as) themselves told us to refer to the ahadith we already have during ghayba

Kamal ad din wa tamam an ni'ma

ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏÈä ãæÓì Èä ÇáãÊæßá ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏÇááå Èä - ÌÚÝÑ ÇáÍãíÑí¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì¡ æãÍãÏÈä ÚíÓì Èä ÚÈíÏ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä ÇÈä ãÍÈæÈ¡ Úä íæäÓ Èä íÚÞæÈ¡ Úãä ÃËÈÊå¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Ãäå ÞÇá: ßíÝ ÃäÊã ÅÐÇ ÈÞíÊã ÏåÑÇ ãä ÚãÑßã áÇÊÚÑÝæä ÅãÇãßã¿ Þíá áå: ÝÅÐÇ ßÇä Ðáß ÝßíÝ äÕäÚ¿ ÞÇá: ÊãÓßæÇ ÈÇáÇãÑ ÇáÇæá ÍÊì íÓÊÈíä áßã

Told us Muhammad b. Musa b. al Mutawakkil (ra) said: Told us Abdullah b. Ja'far al Humairi, from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Isa, and Muhammad b. Isa b. Ubaid, from al Hasan b. Mahboob, from Yunus b. Ya'qoob, someone from him, from Abi Abdullah(as) that he(as) said: "How will you people be when a period from your age would be left nor know your Imam(as)?" said to him(Imam(as)): "So when is (like) that then how do we make out(what to do)?" (Imam(as)) said: "Hold on to the first affair till shown/made apparent to you people."

http://realtashayyu.blogspot.com/2011/03/how-to-deal-with-modern-issues-in-terms.html

As for applying general ruling of Imams(as) for modern issues, again for the gazillionth time, I or other non usoolis do not have any problem with that. But so far you have not produced a single such hadith which would contain a general rule that would negate the ahadith I presented. So I seriously don't know what you're arguing about, unless you're making up your own rules despite claiming not to.

For example if somebody has a child with cancer and they invent a cure, should we then not concern ourselves with such matters because 'Allah remained silent on the issue of cancer' as you quoted a hadith in your article stating? Or stem cell research? Or driving automobiles and the manner in which a Muslim should?

I'm not sure what you're talking about because I never wrote an article against these things. Sorry to say but it seems you're just assuming things, thrusting them on non usoolis, and then destroying those false assumptions to convince yourself that non usoolis are so backwards. It's hard to discuss when you're basing your points on false assumptions.

Let's bring this from another direction. Let's take this quoted principle of the specific evidence overcoming the general principle. Let's be generous and suppose that warnings against females were NOT simply relics of a more backward time when leaders needed to be physically strong and able to fight with other strong men. Let's suppose in general, on average, women are relatively lacking in what is need for leadership compared to men. The minority of women in that case that do have the required skills are the specific cases which qualify the general rule.

That principle was about detailed ahadith qualifying the general ones, so bring some specific/detailed ahadith to prove your point please.

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Salamalaikum all

I thought of putting together ahadees related to women. Most of them are about married women, so check it out if you guys could add up more to increase my understanding on the issue.

Prophet (SA) stated: 'Whoever obeys his wife, Allah would cast himinto the fire on his face'."

"The Prophet (SA) was asked: 'What sort of obedience is meant here'? TheProphet (SA) of Allah replied: 'It is when the husband permits a woman who asksher husband to allow her to go to the public bath, weddings, celebrations, andcondolence gatherings while wearing delicate and thin clothes'."

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 228

"The Prophet (SA) stated: 'If I were tobestow all the good of both worlds upon a Muslim person, I would endow him witha humble heart, a tongue which continuously utters his praises, a body patientenough to withstand all calamities; and I would give him a pious spouse who,when she sees him, becomes happy ,and protects his property and her own honourin his absence'."

Wasa 'il al Shiah,vol 14, p 23

"One person went to the Prophet (SA) andsaid: 'I have a wife who always welcomes me when I come home, and escorts me tothe door when I leave. When she finds me sad and unhappy, she then, byconsoling me says: 'If you are thinking of sustenance, then do not despair,because Allah provides sustenance; and if you are thinking about the next life,then may Allah increase your intellect and efforts. Then the Prophet (SA)stated: ' Allah surely has functionaries and agents in this world and your wifeis one of those. Such a woman would be rewarded half as much as a martyr'

Wasa 'il al Shiah, vol14, p 17

"The Prophet (SA) of Islam stated: ' Anywoman who dies while her husband is pleased with her, enters Paradise'

Mahajjat al-Bayda, vol 2, p 70.

The Holy Prophet also stated: "If a womandoes not perform her duty as a spouse, she has not done her duty toAllah."

Mustadrak, vol 2, p 552.

"Imam Rida (as) stated: 'Some women areblessings for their husbands who express their love and affection'.

Mustadrak, vol 2, p532.

The Holy Prophet (SA)stated: 'The best of you among women are those who possess love and affection'.

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 103,p 235

"The Holy Prophet (SA) stated: 'The duty of a woman is toanswer the call at the door and welcome her husband'."'

Mustadrak, vol 3, p 551.

"Imam Sadiq (as) stated: 'A woman who respects her husbandand does not harass him, will be fortunate and prosperous'."

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 103, p 253.

"The Holy Prophet (SA) stated: 'A wife is duty-bound toarrange for a basin and towel to wash her husband's hands'."

Mustadrak, vol 3, p 551.

"The Prophet (SA) of Islam stated: 'The prayers of a womanwho teases her husband with her tongue, are not accepted (by Allah) even thoughshe fasts everyday, gets up for the acts of worship every night, sets free afew slaves and donates her wealth in the way of Allah. A bad-tongue woman whohurts her husband in this way, is the first person who enters hell'."

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 76, p 363.

"The Holy Prophet (SA) also stated: 'The women of Paradisesay to those women who abuse their husbands in this way: 'May Allah kill you.Do not misbehave with your husband. This man (the husband) is not yours, andyou do not deserve him. Soon he will leave you and come towards us'

Mahajjat al-Bayda, vol2, p 72.

"Imam Sadiq (AS)stated: 'Any woman who bothers her husband and distresses him is distant fromthe blessings of Allah and any woman who respects her husband, is obedient anddoes not cause him sorrow, is blessed and prosperous'

Bihar al-Anwar vol103, p 253.

"There is a tradition reported that the Holy Prophet (SA) was informed ofa good woman who fasted everyday and worshipped Allah every night, but she hadan ill-disposed character and would hurt her neighbours with her sharp tongue.'The Holy Prophet (SA) stated: 'There is no good in her and she is an inhabitantof hell'

Bihar al-Anwar vol103, p 253

"In atradition, the Holy Prophet (SA) stated: 'Any woman who is not compatible withher husband and persuades him to act beyond his capacity, then her deeds wouldnot be accepted by Allah. She would taste the wrath of Allah on the Day ofResurrection'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 71, p 244.

In another Tradition,the Holy Prophet (SA) stated:

"Any woman who isnot compatible with her husband, is not content with what Allah has blessedthem with, and treats her husband harshly by demanding him to give more than heis able, then her acts (or worship) are not acceptable by Allah and He will beangry with her'

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 76. p 367.

In other tradition, the Holy Prophet(SA) stated: After having faith in Allah, there is not any greater blessingthan to have a compatible spouse'.

Mustadrak, vol 3, p 532.

"In a tradition, Imam Rida (AS)stated: 'There are a group of women who raise many children. They are kind andsympathetic. They support their husbands in times of difficulty and in theaffairs of this world and the next. These women do not commit any acts whichwould incur a loss upon their husbands nor multiply their difficulties.

Mustadrak, vol 2, p 534.

"In a tradition, Imam Sadiq (AS)stated: 'There is nothing better in the world than a good wife. And a good wifeis the one whose husband, becomes glad upon seeing her'."

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 103, p 217.

"Imam Sadiq (as) stated: 'The best womenamong your women are those who show appreciation when their husbands bring homesomething and are not discontented if nothing is brought home'."

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 239.

"ImamSadiq (as) also stated: ' Any woman who says to her husband that she has notseen any good things from him then she has fallen in her credibility and hasvoided her acts of worship

Shafi, vol2, p 139

"TheHoly Prophet (SA) stated: 'Any married woman who looks at other men, would besubject to the vehement wrath of Allah'

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 104,p 39.

"TheProphet (SA) of Allah stated: 'A bad woman does not forgive her husband'smistake and does not accept his apology'

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 103,p 235.

"ImamAli (as) stated: ' Act moderately with the women in every instance. Speak tothem nicely in order that their deeds become good'."

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 123.

"ImamSajjad (as) stated: 'One of the rights of a woman upon her husband is that heshould forgive her ignorance and foolishness'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 74, p 5.

"TheProphet (SA) of Allah stated: ' Any man who copes with his incompetent wife,the Almighty Allah, upon his patience (towards his wife) on every occasion,would grant him the reward of patience of Hadrat Ayyub (as)'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 76, p 367

The Prophet (SA) of Allah stated: 'The best of your women is onewho gives birth to many children, is loving and chaste, who does not submit tothe will of her relatives but is obedient towards her husband, adorns herselfonly for her husband and protects herself from strangers, listens to herhusband and obeys him, accedes to his wishes in privacy and does not lose hermodesty in any case."

The Prophet (SA) then added: 'The worst of your women is she who obeysher relatives but does not submit to the wishes of her husband, is barren andvindictive, is not afraid of committing bad deeds, adorns herself in theabsence of her husband, would not accede to the wishes of her husband inprivacy, would not accept his excuses and would not forgive his mistakes.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 235

The Prophet(SA) of Islam stated: ' Any woman who perfumes herself and leaves the house, isdeprived from the blessings of the Almighty Allah until she returns home'

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 247.

"TheProphet (SA) also stated: 'The best of your women is one who is obedienttowards her husband, adorns herself for her husband but does not reveal heradornment to strangers; and the worst of your women is one who adorns herselfin the absence of her husband'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 235

Imam Baqir(AS) stated: 'It is incumbent upon a woman to perfume herself, to wear her bestclothes, to adorn herself in the best way, and to meet her husband in thisstate day and night'."

Shafi, vol2, p 138.

Imam Sadiq(AS) stated: 'Women should not give up adornment, be it only with a necklace.She should not have untinged hands, be it with a little henna. Even old womenshould not give up adornment'."

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 228.

"TheProphet (SA) of Allah stated: ' A good man would pay heed to her husband'swishes and would act according to his desires'."

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 235.

"Awoman asked the Prophet (SA) of Allah: 'What is the duty of a woman with regardto her husband?' The Prophet (SA) stated: 'She must obey him and must notviolate his orders'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 248

"TheProphet (SA) of Allah also stated: 'The worst of women is one who is stubbornand obstinate'.

Mustadrak, vol 2, p 532:

"TheProphet (SA) of Allah also stated: 'The worst of women is one who is barren,dirty, obstinate and disobedient'.

Shafi, vol2, p 129.

The Prophet(AS) of Allah stated: ' Any woman who tolerates her husband's bad temper, willbe rewarded by Allah in the same way that He rewarded Asiyah*, daughter ofMuzahim,

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 247

'TheProphet (SA) of Allah stated: 'The best of your women is one who, upon seeingher husband's anger, tells him: 'I submit to your will. Sleep will not passover my eyes unless you become content with me'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 239

The Prophet(SA) of Allah stated: 'The best of your women is one who perfumes herself,prepares food skillfully and would not overindulge in spending. Such a woman isone of the workforce of Allah and a person who works for Allah would never haveto face either regret or defeat'

Wasa'il al-Shiah, vol14, p 15.

The Prophet (SA) ofAllah stated: 'The duty of a woman towards her husband is to turn the lights onin the house and to prepare good and suitable food'."

Mustadrak,vol 2, p 551.

"A woman asked theProphet (SA) of Allah: 'What good (reward) is awaiting a woman who performs herduties in her husband's house?' The Prophet (SA) stated: 'For every activitythat she does concerning the household matters, Allah looks on her kindly, andwhoever enjoys the grace of Allah would not be tormented'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 251

"TheProphet (as) of Allah stated: 'A woman is the protector and trustee of herhusband's wealth and as such is responsible

Mustadrak, vol 2, p 550

"Awoman asked the Prophet (SA) of Allah: 'What are the rights of a husband overhis wife?' The Prophet (SA) stated: 'She must be obedient towards him, must notviolate his orders and should not give away anything without his permission'

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 248.<br style="mso-special-character:line-break"><br style="mso-special-character:line-break">

The Prophet(SA) of Allah also stated: 'The best of your women is one who spends less'

Mustadrak,vol 2, p 532.

"Umm-e-Salamahasked the Prophet (SA): 'How much reward is there for a woman's housework?' TheProphet (SA) replied: 'Any woman who, in the way of improving the order of thehouse, takes something from somewhere and places it somewhere else, would enjoythe grace of Allah, and whoever attracts the blessings of Allah, would not betormented by Allah's anger'. Umm-e-Salamah said: 'O Rasul-Allah (Messenger (SA)of Allah)! May my parents be sacrificed for you, please state other rewards forwomen'. The Prophet (SA) of Allah stated: 'When a woman becomes pregnant,Allah rewards her as much as He would to someone who goes for Jihad (holy war)with all his wealth and life. Then when she delivers her baby, a call wouldreach her stating 'all your sins are forgiven; start a new life again.' Eachtime she feeds her baby with her milk, Allah gives her reward equal to that offreeing a slave for each feeding'."

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 251

The Prophet(SA) of Allah stated: "Spinning (and weaving) is a good pastime for women.

Biharal-Anwar vol 103, p 258.

"TheProphet (SA) of Allah stated: 'The Paradise is under the feet of mothers'."

Majm'aal-Zawa'id, vol 8, p 138.

Imam Ali(AS) stated: 'Do not choose foolish women to feed (your children) with theirmilk, because the milk makes their base qualities penetrated into the child'.

Wasa'ilal-Shi'ah, vol 15, p 188.

"ImamBaqir (as) stated: 'Choose noble women to feed (your children) with their milk,because the base qualities of milk are passed from the feeding woman to thechild'.

Wasa'ilal-Shi'ah, vol 15, p 189.

"TheProphet (SA) of Allah stated: 'Man is the guardian of his family and everyguardian has responsibilities towards those under his guardianship'.

Mustadrak, vol 2, p 550.

Imam Sadiq (as) stated:'Whoever is our friend, expresses his kindness to his spouse more'."

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 227.

"The Prophet (SA)of Allah stated: 'The more one becomes faithful the more one expresses kindnessto his spouse'."

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 103, p 228

"Imam Sadiq (AS)stated: 'One of the characteristics of the prophets of Allah is that they are all kind towards their wives',

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 103, p 236.

"The Prophet (SA)of Allah stated: 'The words of a man who tells his wife, 'I love you truly',should never leave her heart'.

Shafi, vol 2, p 138.

Imam Sadiq (as), quoting his father,stated: 'Whoever marries, must respect his wife

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 103, p 224.

The Prophet (SA) of Allah also stated:'None would respect women except the magnanimous ones, and none would insultthem except the ignoble ones.' In addition, the Prophet (SA) of Allah stated:'Whoever insults his family, would lose happiness in his life'.

Mawa iz al-Adadiyyah, p 15

Hakeem Luqman a.s. stated: ' A sagacious man must actlike a child when with his family, and leave his manly behaviour for when outof his house'.

Mahajjatal-Bayda, vol 2, p 54.

Imam Ali(AS) stated: 'Cope with women under all circumstances and speak to them well;(and by doing so) it may make their actions correct'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 223.

"Imam Sajjad (AS)stated: 'It is a right of (your) wife that you treat her kindly, because she isunder your surety, and you should feed and dress her, and forgiveher ignorant deeds'.

Bihar al-Anwar, vol 74, p 5

"Imam Sadiq (AS)wasasked: 'What rights a woman has on her husband, for which, if he actedaccordingly, would be regarded as a good-doer?' The Imam replied: 'He mustprovide her with food and clothes and he should forgive her mistakes committedunknowingly'."

Shafi, vol2. p 139.

"TheProphet (SA) also stated: 'Order women to do good deeds before they make youcommit wrong ones'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 227.

"Imam Sadiq (AS)stated: 'The bliss of a man is that he becomes superviso<a name="n192">r and guardianof his family'.

Wasa.il al-Shi'ah, vol 15, p 251

"The Prophet (SA) of Islam stated: ' Any man who permits hiswife, who has adorned herself, to leave the house, is a mean-spirited person,and whoever calls him as such, would not have committed any sin. And any womanwhose husband permits her to leave the house adorned and perfumed, with eachstep that she takes, Allah would build a house for her husband in hell'.

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 249.

"Therevered Prophet (SA) banned the beating of women, unless in special circumstanceswhen punishment becomes wajib (obligatory)."

Mustadrak,vol 2, p 550.

The Prophet(SA) also stated: 'I am astonished at a man who beats his wife, whereas it ishe himself, more than his wife, who deserves a beating. O people, do not beatyour women with sticks because such an act has Qisas (reprisal).

Biharal-Anwar, vol 103, p 249

"ImamAli (as) stated: 'Women are entrusted to men, and as such are not owners oftheir fortunes and misfortunes. They are with you like a trust of Allah; so donot hurt them and do not make (the life) difficult for them'.

Mustadrak,vol 2, p 551.

The Prophet(SA) of Allah stated: 'O you (men)! How can any of you beat his wife and there-after embrace her'?"

Wasa.ilal-Shi'ah, vol 14, p 119.

A traditionhas been reported that the Prophet (SA) did not allow any woman to go out ofher house without her husband's permission. "He stated: 'Any woman whogoes out of her house without her husband's permission, would be subjected tothe curse of all the angels in the heavens and all those who see her, be theyjinn or human, until the time she returns (to her home)'.

Wasa.ilal-Shi'ah, vol 14, p 154

The Prophet(SA) of Allah stated: 'Whoever, falsely, accuses his wife of committingadultery would lose all the benefits from his good deeds just as a snake shedsits skin. And for each hair on his body, one thousand sins would be writtendown in his record (for the Day of Judgment)

Biharal-Anw'ar, vol 103, p 248.

Imam Ali(AS) stated to his son, Imam Hasan (as): 'Be careful not to act possessivelywhen you should not. Because this would incline the right people towardscorruption and the chaste people towards committing sin'

Biharal-Anw'ar, vol 103, p 252

"TheProphet (SA) of Allah stated: ' Allah would be greatly angry with a marriedwoman who fills her eyes with the looks of strangers'

Biharal-Anwar, vol 104, p 39.

"The Prophet (SA)of Allah stated: 'The fragrance of Paradise can be smelt at a distance of fivehundred years journey, but two groups of people are deprived from it; thosewhich are disowned by their parents and the cuckold ones'. It was asked: 'OProphet (SA) of Allah: 'Who is a cuckold'? The Prophet (SA) replied:'A man who knows his wife is an adulterer (and remains silent about it)'."

Wasa'ilal-Shiah, vo114, p 109.

The HolyProphet (SA) said: 'Invite your husbands to do good before they persuade you tocommit wrong deeds'.

Bihar al-Anwar,vol 103, p 227

Allah states in the HolyQuran: .."O you who believe! Save yourselves and your families from afire whose fuel is men and stones..." (66:6).

"Imam Sadiq (AS)stated: 'When the above Ayah (verse) was revealed, one of the Muslims wascrying and said: 'I am unable to save even myself from the Hellfire and I amsupposed to be responsible to save my family from Hell as well'! The Prophet(SA) stated to this man: 'It would suffice you only to order them to do thosethings that you have to do yourself and to forbid them from those deeds thatyou yourself should abstain from'.

Wasa'ilal-Shi'ah, vol 11, p 417

ya ali madad

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once again Prophet worked outside for her, and did all the work, while she served as an investor, prior to their marriage. After their marriage, Prophet was the one in control of everything, while she cooked him food and stayed in the kitchen, like every woman should.

I am amazed at where did you pull out of; the "she ( as) cooked him ( pbuh )food and stayed in the kitchen, like ..". I mean what on earth u r talking about!!

she (as ) was so rich that a number of camels would hide behind her gold and treasure, if piled up. She was the richest lady in the region. You r talking about sm 1 else or you r totally unaware of the greatness of this lady ( as). She ( as ) is the mother of her majesty bibi Fatima ( as ), in whose honor the prophet ( pbuh) would exhibit "respect" like he ( pbuh) knew the great status of his daughter. R u talking about her mother?! Wen she ( as ) passed away, she had by then spent each dollar worth of her wealth in the name of Islam. It would b greatly disappointing if you don't appreciate whom you r talking about.

Infact, simply by their existence; bibi Khatija ( as), bibi Fatima ( as ), bibi zainab (as ) r three ladies that break the neck of akhi bhooka's argument. And bhooka knows it!

Edited by Bukharisolo

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Salam,

bhooka Bhai, we are a minority in heaven too. lol.

Imam Jafar as Sadiq a.s said: The majority of the people of the heavens will be women. Allah knows their weaknesses and will forgive them.

Man La Yazher ul Faqih Third Edition Urdu pg 279 hadith 4628

I am amazed at where did you pull out of; the "she ( as) cooked him ( pbuh )food and stayed in the kitchen, like ..". I mean what on earth u r talking about!!

she (as ) was so rich that a number of camels would hide behind her (as ) gold and treasure, if piled up. She was the richest lady in the region. You r talking about sm 1 else or you r totally unaware of the greatness of this lady ( as). She ( as ) is the mother of her majesty bibi Fatima ( as ), in whose honor the prophet ( pbuh) would exhibit "respect" like he ( pbuh) knew the great status of his daughter. R u talking about her mother?! Wen she ( as ) passed away, she had by then spent each dollar worth of her wealth in the name of Islam. It would b greatly disappointing if you don't appreciate whom you r talking about.

Infact, simply by their existence; bibi Khatija ( as), bibi Fatima ( as ), bibi zainab (as ) r three ladies that break the neck of akhi bhooka's argument. And bhooka knows it!

There are different kind of women some are good, some are . I won't compare infallible with humans; it will be a bad idea.

The women of ahlulbayth asws are not like our women who range from Very good to Ayesha.

Ya Ali Madad

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That principle was about detailed ahadith qualifying the general ones, so bring some specific/detailed ahadith to prove your point please.

It's all the same. Literally, a hadith is a report of something that happened. Empirical evidence is a report from nature. Capable women leaders have existed and do exist. Therefore, you lose. QED.

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Actually Bibi Khadijah was definitely not his(pbuh) boss, he(pbuh) was acting more like a partner/independent worker in the trade. But anyhow, as I said earlier (with proof provided), we have to follow explicit ahadith instead of relying on not even ahadith but vague historical incidents whose details are not clearly known.

Beside, Imams(as) ordered us to follow the latest hadith, the hadith that comes from the latest Imam(as).

Kafi

وعنه، عن أبيه، عن إسماعيل بن مرار، عن يونس، عن داود بن فرقد عن المعلى بن خنيس قال: قلت لابي عبدالله (عليه السلام): إذا جاء حديث عن أولكم وحديث عن آخركم بأيهما نأخذ؟ فقال: خذوا به حتى يبلغكم عن الحي، فإن بلغكم عن الحي فخذوا قوله، قال: ثم قال أبوعبدالله (عليه السلام): إنا والله لا ندخلكم إلا فيما يسعكم، وفي حديث آخر خذوا بالاحدث

...................Imam (as) said: "...Take/follow the latest hadith."

http://www.al-shia.org/html/ara/books/lib-hadis/al-kafi-1/03.htm#04 (page 67, hadith 9)

The ahadith I presented were explicit and from the later Imams(as) so they get precedence over this vague incident of the Prophet(pbuh)'s life when he(pbuh) had not even publicly been made prophet.

Established historical facts cannot b challenged on any ground. He ( pbuh) was working under her ( as ), employment, it was her merchandise that he ( pbuh) set out to trade in. She ( as) didn't need partnership bec she was more than sufficiently rich.

All correctly recorded & reproduced Hadith r equal.

The prophet ( pbuh) was born as a masoom and his life was throughout a prophethood & the practical face of the Quran. His ( pbuh) life story is what should b our model, above all else.

Even though the Hadith you reproduced r correct, but r one liners without context, time, occasion, etc etc. Mayb these were guidance for the absolutely dumb.

Imams don't do injustice, ya?

There is a flaw in the way we r interpreting these Hadith.

Islam, which has rules on the rights for protection of plants and trees, during wartime, wouldn't treat women like goats, even worse. There is an error in the interpretation, why? Just thing about bibi khateeja ( as) bibi zainab ( as) and bibi Fatima ( as) and then read all the Hadith, doesn't fall into place, there is an error of interpretation here.

Edited by Bukharisolo

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Literally, a hadith is a report of something that happened.

No, we shia imamis refer to the sayings of Prophet(PBUH) and the Imams(as) as ahadith. I asked for those.

Even though the Hadith you reproduced r correct, but r one liners without context, time, occasion, etc etc. Mayb these were guidance for the absolutely dumb.

If that's the case, then that further proves my point that they're explicit instructions which even dumb people can understand (therefore no need for a 'scholar' to interpret them) and should be acted upon as it it.

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Salam,

bhooka Bhai, we are a minority in heaven too. lol.

Imam Jafar as Sadiq a.s said: The majority of the people of the heavens will be women. Allah knows their weaknesses and will forgive them.

Man La Yazher ul Faqih Third Edition Urdu pg 279 hadith 4628

There are different kind of women some are good, some are . I won't compare infallible with humans; it will be a bad idea.

The women of ahlulbayth asws are not like our women who range from Very good to Ayesha.

Ya Ali Madad

I would never dare to compare them to any 1, & it isn't about comparing individuals, its about the relationship bet two ppl. The lives of the masomeen r our rolemodels, in terms of how they acted, their sunnat. They r our standards and criteria for how all relations should b. Imam Hussan (a s ), Hussain ( as) & Abbas ( as) r our standard for how brothers should b. Likewise we learn abt friendship, relationship with sons & daughters, mothers, fathers, with slaves, business morals, we learn leadership etc etc we learn everything through them.

So it aint about the individuals, its about the relationship.. And its about the sunna of of our masoomeen.

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No, we shia imamis refer to the sayings of Prophet(PBUH) and the Imams(as) as ahadith. I asked for those.

Etymologically ignorant and logically absurd. If a hadith said that "all birds can fly," would you reject the evidence of your eyes if you saw a bird that couldn't? Another example of the bankruptcy of your "method."

Edited by kadhim

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If a hadith said that "all birds can fly," would you reject the evidence of your eyes if you saw a bird that couldn't? Another example of the bankruptcy of your "method."

Produce such a hadith from our primary sources to prove your point. Thank you.

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and backwards in the 21st century.

There have been many 21st centuries before (in various calenders), and there will be many 21st centuries again.

she (as ) was so rich that a number of camels would hide behind her gold and treasure, if piled up. She was the richest lady in the region. You r talking about sm 1 else or you r totally unaware of the greatness of this lady ( as). She ( as ) is the mother of her majesty bibi Fatima ( as ), in whose honor the prophet ( pbuh) would exhibit "respect" like he ( pbuh) knew the great status of his daughter. R u talking about her mother?! Wen she ( as ) passed away, she had by then spent each dollar worth of her wealth in the name of Islam. It would b greatly disappointing if you don't appreciate whom you r talking about.

Infact, simply by their existence; bibi Khatija ( as), bibi Fatima ( as ), bibi zainab (as ) r three ladies that break the neck of akhi bhooka's argument. And bhooka knows it!

Don't deify them as if they were gods of some kind. They weren't. Even before Khadija converted to islam, Muhammad did most of her work. She just happened to be rich.

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Guest Jebreil

^Wow...talk about respect for one of the greatest woman to have walked this earth... :o

(bismillah)

(salam)

And talk about respect for the greatest man to have existed.

(refer to the same post)

(wasalam)

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There have been many 21st centuries before (in various calenders), and there will be many 21st centuries again.

Don't deify them as if they were gods of some kind. They weren't. Even before Khadija converted to islam, Muhammad did most of her work. She just happened to be rich.

What does that have to to with the price of eggs? It remains wrongheaded, backward for anyone to think women are to be disqualified from any activity because they are women. I thought only throwbacks and knuckle draggers thought like that, do you fit in either of those categories?

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What does that have to to with the price of eggs? It remains wrongheaded, backward for anyone to think women are to be disqualified from any activity because they are women. I thought only throwbacks and knuckle draggers thought like that, do you fit in either of those categories?

look at what happened to sita, the wife of Rama, when she went out alone. She got kidnapped by Ravana. Thats what happens when you let women out alone.

Rig Veda, Book 8. HYMN XXXIII. Verse 17. Saci Paulomi.

—Indra himself hath said, The mind of woman brooks not discipline, Her intellect hath little weight.

you're beyond help

you are not even important.

Edited by robot9001

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(bismillah)

(salam)

You failed. Let's see how many people - even yourself - you will convince with that argument.

If you don't convince anyone, even yourself, then, dare I say it, but... Q.E.D.

(wasalam)

My argument is a sound argument used by muslim feminists, perhaps even the female admins of this particular forum, to justify female status in modern muslim society.

Some Muslim feminists laud this event as an example of political intervention by a woman, countering the more widespread view that the ill-fated battle demonstrates why women should not be allowed to lead. Traditions of the prophet appear to have surfaced after this event that are cited to deter or prevent women from exercising a leadership role.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Battle_of_the_Camel

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Guest Jebreil

My argument is a sound argument used by muslim feminists, perhaps even the female admins of this particular forum, to justify female status in modern muslim society.

Some Muslim feminists laud this event as an example of political intervention by a woman, countering the more widespread view that the ill-fated battle demonstrates why women should not be allowed to lead. Traditions of the prophet appear to have surfaced after this event that are cited to deter or prevent women from exercising a leadership role.

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Battle_of_the_Camel

(bismillah)

(salam)

Aisha was wrong. Asiyah, wife of Pharaoh, was right.

One advised to evil. One advised to good.

One should have been rejected. One should have been listened to.

One will face the wrong that she did. One will taste the Paradise as one of the 4 leading women.

They are both Women. One betrayed her faith - and one has faith greater than many men.

Q.E.D.

You cannot use an erring woman as proof against all women, nor an erring man as proof against all men.

(wasalam)

Edited by Jebreil

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Aisha was wrong. Asiyah, wife of Pharaoh, was right.

One advised to evil. One advised to good.

One should have been rejected. One should have been listened to.

One will face the wrong that she did. One will taste the Paradise as one of the 4 leading women.

They are both Women. One betrayed her faith - and one has faith greater than many men.

Q.E.D.

You cannot use an erring woman as proof against all women, nor an erring man as proof against all men.

(wasalam)

Aisha didn't betray her faith .

She evidently believed that Ali was wrong to occupy himself in other tasks before finding Uthman's murderer. She challenged Ali's caliphate under the claim that Ali had been unsuccessful in finding Uthman's murderer, calling for revenge, Qisas for Uthman. After Ali had been chosen as the fourth Caliph, Aisha instigated a rebellion against his rule, despite her earlier opposition to Uthman. She is said to have delivered a fiery speech calling for vengeance against Ali ibn Abi Talib in the mosque of Mecca.

since when is asking for Qisas betraying her faith?

I would have supported Aisha if i was a militant feminist like all of you here. But i am not. I am against women even coming out of their homes unless needed.

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I don't represent islam or muslims (even though i am a muslim). Happy now? And do you judge a religion by what its followers do? What kind of judgment is that?

Please. Keep your incoherent ramblings to yourself, or what semblance of speech you are trying to make here. I didn't even read most of it

First of all, Salam (its an Islamic greeting btw:)..and should be said to every believer..havent noticed it much in your posts..so just a reminder..)

I find your posts interesting... What I understood earlier, is that you didnt care that you were insulting him because hes a NonMuslim...which is what I was trying to explain to you isnt Islamic akhlaq..but as you said..it didnt matter to you anyway...

Do you mind telling me why you would talk to me (A Muslim btw) in a manner like that? coming and telling me that you did not even have enough DECENCY to READ my post, or as you said "incoherent ramblings"...well well...

Also...whether its true or not, most believers of any religion, are expected to be following the Prophets / leaders of the religion..so whether you say that you represent Islam or not..doesnt matter...if u claim to be a "Muslim" then you are representing the religion and following to rules of Allah swt, as well as the akhlaq of the Ahlulbayt...if we Muslims are not atleast bothering to TRY to follow these...then do we really even deserve to call ourselves "Muslims" ? I dont think so..if anyone isnt even trying to follow any of the above, dont you think they'd rather not tell the world that they are Muslims and ruin the image of their own religion unnecessarily?

And about judging a religion by its people..its a similar concept as above...its unfortunate, but most of the world judges religion by its people..because its people are EXPECTED to be following what the religion teaches..and should be a representation that shows what the religion stands for..thats why they say that a woman who walks out on the street in a hijab represents the entire Islam..every action she does...will represent Islam..because she wears the flag of ISlam...and dear brother, its only a woman who wears the hijab and carries that burden...again, coming back to the title of this thread...women are also capable of making or breaking the image of Islam without even communicating (men too..but that NORMALLY includes communication of some form to let others know that he's Muslim)...but women, just by walking out on the street...thats the responsibility a Mominah has in today's generation...

Unfortunately dear brother...Im not too sure what your view on this is....

Wasalam

Edited by IFK

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IFK and Jebreil

I want to thank you for the kind words you said for me. I have been a member of SC for a long time and have many posts and have rankled a few mod's feathers, hence I am on this review thing but it won't last forever. I have seen many young folks join SC who have a fire in their belly and it shows in their posts but that is what young people are bound to do until they mature, indeed I was like that as a young man. All isues were black and white with no gray or inbetween. It's kind of funny really I am a menber of another Shia site where I am called "Uncle" because of my age and 62 isn't that old.

Anyway to save you time from looking I call The Creator "Shiva" so others may know the school of my faith but other than that the names matters not because there is only one "Creator". Regarding Truth I believe no faith has a monopoly on it or that one is better than another. Again thank you for your posts.

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Aisha didn't betray her faith .

She evidently believed that Ali was wrong to occupy himself in other tasks before finding Uthman's murderer. She challenged Ali's caliphate under the claim that Ali had been unsuccessful in finding Uthman's murderer, calling for revenge, Qisas for Uthman. After Ali had been chosen as the fourth Caliph, Aisha instigated a rebellion against his rule, despite her earlier opposition to Uthman. She is said to have delivered a fiery speech calling for vengeance against Ali ibn Abi Talib in the mosque of Mecca.

since when is asking for Qisas betraying her faith?

I would have supported Aisha if i was a militant feminist like all of you here. But i am not. I am against women even coming out of their homes unless needed.

Salam,

I am not at all a feminist..I have mentioned this already in this thread..so please do not make assumptions like that..I do not think a woman should purposely come out of the house and display herself EVER...no way!!but to lock her up or imprison her like an animal, or unintelligent species...or an inferior gender....sorry..Islam has given women equality to men...and you can reply to my earlier long post (assuming you read it) incase you really want to prove your point..I would appreciate it..because Id like to understand what you and brother Bhooka think about it...brother Bhooka has been kind enough to inform me that he will inshaAllah reply in time..would like more views on it..Im honestly trying to understand why this oppression, force and inequality- clearly against the Quran..

People here are not all FEMINIST...they just look at women as human beings...and not objects or tools for reproduction who should not be taught anything else...thats the difference brother

Wasalam

Edited by IFK

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First of all, Salam (its an Islamic greeting btw:)..and should be said to every believer..havent noticed it much in your posts..so just a reminder..)

(wasalam)

Will you proceed to shake hand with a na mahram man like me? :Hijabi:

And about judging a religion by its people..its a similar concept as above...its unfortunate, but most of the world judges religion by its people.

So if majority of the world is wrong, you will follow them. See, majority of Americans watches the American Idol. Do you do the same?

.because its people are EXPECTED to be following what the religion teaches..and should be a representation that shows what the religion stands for..thats why they say that a woman who walks out on the street in a hijab represents the entire Islam..every action she does...will represent Islam..because she wears the flag of ISlam...and dear brother, its only a woman who wears the hijab and carries that burden...again, coming back to the title of this thread...women are also capable of making or breaking the image of Islam without even communicating (men too..but that NORMALLY includes communication of some form to let others know that he's Muslim)...but women, just by walking out on the street...thats the responsibility a Mominah has in today's generation...

Unfortunately dear brother...Im not too sure what your view on this is....

Wasalam

Do you support Aisha coming out in rebellion against Ali? If yes, then ok i am not a hardcore male chauvinist.

but to lock her up or imprison her like an animal, or unintelligent species...or an inferior gender....sorry..Islam has given women equality to men...and you can reply to my earlier long post (assuming you read it) incase you really want to prove your point..I would appreciate it..because Id like to understand what you and brother Bhooka think about it...brother Bhooka has been kind enough to inform me that he will inshaAllah reply in time..would like more views on it..Im honestly trying to understand why this oppression, force and inequality- clearly against the Quran..

People here are not all FEMINIST...they just look at women as human beings...and not objects...thats the difference brother

I don't agree with that either.

Edited by robot9001

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Guest Jebreil

Aisha didn't betray her faith .

She evidently believed that Ali was wrong to occupy himself in other tasks before finding Uthman's murderer. She challenged Ali's caliphate under the claim that Ali had been unsuccessful in finding Uthman's murderer, calling for revenge, Qisas for Uthman. After Ali had been chosen as the fourth Caliph, Aisha instigated a rebellion against his rule, despite her earlier opposition to Uthman. She is said to have delivered a fiery speech calling for vengeance against Ali ibn Abi Talib in the mosque of Mecca.

since when is asking for Qisas betraying her faith?

I would have supported Aisha if i was a militant feminist like all of you here. But i am not. I am against women even coming out of their homes unless needed.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Betraying her Imam was betraying Allah (swt)... was betraying her faith.

The sister here, IFK, quoted the Imam, affirming his Imamah, and showing her faith.

You know this and you pretend you don't. This is where Allah (swt) demands that we speak the Truth when we know it - the Sister here guided and instructed you according to the Hadith and the Teaching, which you had previously neglected. At that point, she advised you to good, and you knew that it was good. Why can't you bring yourself up to say that when a Woman gives good advice, based on Hadith, she should be listened to, even by men?

(wasalam)

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(wasalam)

Will you proceed to shake hand with a na mahram man like me? :Hijabi:

Salam...

Shaking hands is not the same as saying Salam..that too, while actually inbetween communicating online..so the answer is a clear cut NO..ofcourse I wont shake hands with namehrams given a choice.

So if majority of the world is wrong, you will follow them. See, majority of Americans watches the American Idol. Do you do the same?

I never said its right that the world judges a religion by its people..i clearly said "its unfortunate"...its a reality we cannot escape..and for the sake of Allah swt and the Ahlulbayt, I believe that we should be slightly sensitive to the image of Islam being ruined thanks to its people...if people associate the 2 (Which, for obvious reasons, actually makes sense)...then why not take that into consideration and maintain our actions and behavior?

Do you support Aisha coming out in rebellion against Ali? If yes, then ok i am not a hardcore male chauvinist.

I do not support women coming out and fighting wars..especially against the rightful Imam of their times..but leaving the house in full hijab for halal purposes (such as with family, for grocery, home/ clothes shopping which men often do not know how to do ever..esp desi men.. etc) is very different than going into jihad which is forbidden for women..

Actually, if I remember...wont women also be part of Imam Mahdi's (ajf) army inshaAllah? (not fighting ofcourse..but helping) And didnt they used to help nurse the wounded soldiers and provide them with water etc during the wars? Ive heard this somewhere, not 100% sure...but if someone can clarify the 2 points for me please? Wouldnt that be them getting out of the house?

I don't agree with that either.

Which part exactly do you not agree with? that they are more than objects and tools for reproduction? or the other way around?

Thankyou..

Wasalam

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