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In the Name of God بسم الله

Tears In Prayers

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-SeeKeR-

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salam.gif

Tears for personal reasons make prayers invalid but how does that figure when one says dua for personal affairs in qunnot or namaz-e-ghufaila. Its generally mentioned that if dua is said with tears it has greater chances of being fulfilled.

Does the same rule apply or not?

Thanks.

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I am unaware of the opinions you are referring to, but this must refer to the difference between salat and dua.

During salat, one ought not to be gushing tears over one's personal sorrows. One should put that aside, and attend to prayers, praising HIM for HIS glory. Crying all the time during salat would make it impossible to make the correct words and gestures.

For dua, one might shed tears of emotion, especially when contemplating the sufferings of the martyrs and Imams. Then, ones tears are of devotion. Dua is a state of offering ones own devotions, ones own feelings and requests. Salat is adherence to a ritual, with rules exterior to oneself, and a designated way of behaviour.

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^ What opinions you mean?

Within Salat there are some parts in which personal duas could be mentioned like at the time of qunoot. Technically that is part of the salat so i wanted to know that does the ruling of not crying hold for that as well. Similarly in namaz-e ghufyala in qunoot one has a special part after the dua to pray for personal affairs.

Hope you get what i am trying to ask.

Thanks.

Edited by -SeeKeR-
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(salam)

I have often wondered this myself so if anyone has a fiqhi answer it would be very much appreciated. Also aside from during qunoot when personal duas are expressly allowed, I am wondering if tears for personal reasons within the context of asking Allah (swt) for help with them is allowed or if it also invalidates the prayer. So for example, your mother is in hospital and during your prayer you are mentally begging Allah (swt) to cure her and are crying in the process, as opposed to crying simply because you are thinking about her plight (in isolation from asking Allah (swt) to help the situation). Obviously during prayers we are not really supposed to be thinking about personal affairs in the first place, but I'd like to know whether tears within that sort of context actually operate to invalidate the prayer. I am guessing that it still might, but I'd like to get a definitive answer.

wasalaam

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Interesting Question,

Sayyid Sistani says:

* As an obligatory precaution, if one intentionally weeps, silently or loudly, over some worldly matters, his namaz will be void. But, if he weeps silently or loudly due to fear of Allah, or for the Hereafter, there is no harm in it. In fact, it is among the best acts.

Sayyid Kho'i elaborated slightly more:

* One who intentionally weeps loudly in connection with worldly affairs, his prayers will be nullified. and the obligatory precaution is that he should not weep for worldly affairs even without voice. However, if he weeps with or without voice, on account of fear of Allah or for the Hereafter there is no harm in it and in fact it is one of the best acts which a person performs.

So it seems it comes down to niyyah and fair judgment.

e.g. Money

You could want money for buying a ferrari to drive around and have fun (Niyya is dunya) :- or

You could want money for a ferrari that you want to hire out to raise money for orphans. (Niyya is akhira)

A con artist rips you off, and you cry in salah. You ask yourself, is your crying coz you don't get to have fun, or coz now the orphans will lose out?

Trouble is where something's of dual-nature (maybe has some dunya, and some akhira) or as Sis Ruqayah mentioned, mother in hospital (Nabi Ya'qoub cried for Yusuf (as), dunya or akhira?), it's a tough one hmm.

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^ well the problem is that when some parts of namaz are specifically for dua then doesnt the whole idea create a conflict?

Like when one is reciting ayahs in other sections of the salah, it makes sense to only think about Allah(swt) as the ayahs translate to that. But when for example in namaz-e-ghufayala in qunoot we are supposed to say the following:

Alla humma inni as aluka bi mafatihli ghaybil lati la ya 'lamuha illa anta an tusalliya 'ala Muhammadin wa Ali Muhammad wa an taf'al bi........... (here one should mention his wishes).

And we mention our wishes...it means that we could be expected to ask for some worldly stuff as well...so then even if the intention is purely for the world and we cry for that how would it be wrong? Secondly one alim told me that if i say duas for needs in qunoot of wajib salat it would be very beneficial. And i supposed keeping in line with human psychology when someone asks for something desperately tears automatically come out.

I see two principles overlapping...unsure.gif.

Edited by -SeeKeR-
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^ well it could be a lotta stuff like someone wanted to get admission in a specific major and didnt, or someone wanted a job, or someone was ill...you know stuff like that. People face difficulties day in and day out.

ok yup.

So let's look at each one separately:

admission to a major

job

health

So we know Rasool (pbuh) says "He who seeks knowledge in order to divert peoples attention towards himself will surely not smell the fragrance of Paradise."

We also know that a person could seek knowledge for religious reasons, or to attain a job for which they can sustain their family (which actually are religious reasons).

So why do you want to get admission to a major, dunya or akhira?

Same with health

Be healthy so you can be attractive for the ladies? :- or

Be healthy so you can do your duties better and easier?

You can even go as so far as sleeping and breathing, with some uluma' saying "your niyya for sleep should be so you can get some rest so that when you wake up you have the ability to attend to the affairs that prepare you for the akhira", which is backed up by Imam Ali (as) in du'a kumail "يا رَبِّ ، أَسْأَلُكَ بِحَقِّكَ وَ قُدْسِكَ ، وَ اَعْظَمِ صِفاتِكَ وَ اَسْمائِكَ ، أنْ تَجْعَلَ اَوْقاتي مِنَ اللَّيْلِ وَ النَّهارِ بِذِكْرِكَ مَعْمُورَةً ، وَ بِخِدْمَتِكَ مَوْصُولَةً ، وَ اَعْمالي عِنْدَكَ مَقْبُولَةً ، حَتّى تَكُونَ أعْمالي وَ أوْرادي كُلُّها وِرْداً واحِداً ، وَ حالي في خِدْمَتِكَ سَرْمَداً ."

"O' Lord! I beseech Thee by Thy glory and Thy honour, by Thy supremely high attributes and by Thy names to cause me to utilise my time, day and night, in Thy remembrance, by engaging myself in serving Thee (Thy cause) and to let my deeds be such as to be acceptable to Thee, so much so that all my actions and offerings (prayers) may be transformed into one continuous and sustained effort and my life may take the form of constant and perpetual service to Thee."

Virtually every action therefore can have an implication of being a worldy intention (even salah, e.g. riyaa') or an akhira intention.

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Ok i get what you are trying to say. But its kind of interpretive i think...unsure.gif. And my main concern is why allow dua in the salah if one cant cry?

And than what you are saying means that in every dua we need to have akhira in mind? Technically i suppose akhira should always be in mind while asking for a dua. Its kind of confusing though.

thanks for explaining.

Same with health

Be healthy so you can be attractive for the ladies? :- or

Be healthy so you can do your duties better and easier?

Lol...off topic bro but i am a sister.

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This is the hadith that the scholars use for this ruling:

[ 9243 ] 4 ـ محمد بن الحسن بإسناده ، عن محمد بن علي بن محبوب ، عن علي بن محمد ، عن القاسم بن محمد ، عن سليمان بن داود ، عن النعمان بن عبد السلام ، عن أبي حنيفة قال : سألت أبا عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) عن البكاء في الصلاة ، أيقطع الصلاة ؟ فقال : إن بكى لذكر جنة أو نار فذلك هو أفضل الأعمال في الصلاة ، وإن كان ذكر ميتاً له فصلاته فاسدة .

4 – Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from Muhammad b. `Ali b. Mahbub from `Ali b. Muhammad from al-Qasim b. Muhammad from Sulayman b. Dawud from an-Nu`man b. `Abd as-Salam from Abu Hanifa. He said: I asked Abu `Abdillah about crying in salat, does it break the salat? So he said: If he cried due to a remembrance of Garden or Fire, then that is the best of acts in the salat. And if it was a remembrance of a deceased person of his, then his salat is ruined.

The isnad is da`if, but they rule based on it anyway because the Shi`a have acted upon it.

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(salam)

^Hmm I am surprised at that answer because based on the fatwas and hadith that ya aba and mac posted (assuming that the english translations are accurate) it would seem that crying during salah is only allowed exclusively out of fear of Allah or of remembrance of the hereafter. The fatwas/hadith are not couched in general terms (ie. it doesn't say that you can cry out of remembrance of Allah generally, which would potentially broaden the scope of what constitute valid tears very widely to include the types of examples given in this thread)....instead it specifically mentions crying out of fear/reward, thus the dual natured wordly-akhirah examples given in this thread (including my own) would seem to be excluded. I think it'd be good to get a direct fatwa.

wasalaam

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^ wasalam.gif

Hmmm well the latter part of the rep's answer was inline with the ahdiths the brothers posted as in if the intention of the dua is for akhira then crying could be ok. I see what you mean about the first part of his answer but the thing is sistani.org replies too late...sometimes it takes them months to answer. The other option is najaf.org BUT i have stopped trusting them since an incident with my cousin. He asked something about khums and they replied by saying its ok to wear silk ties...wacko.gif.

Edited by -SeeKeR-
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^^(salam)

Perhaps because prayer is the one time that the average person will (should) not be dwelling on his worldly concerns, and should get into a state of total devotion cut off from this world. When the personal problems/wish list comes in.. well, it brings you back to the dunya, and all its attachments.

This somehow reminded me of when imam Khumayni's (qas) son died, and he did not shed a tear at the funeral majlis, and when asked, he said: I feared that if I cry, it would be for other than Allah.

[sorry for bringing a layman opinion into the topic]

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