Conservative V. Liberal Historically Considered

[Guest Stefan]

titumir, please tell us where you live.

[FounderChurch 0]

The problem that faces Conservatives of all religions, is that we're too narrow-minded. Unfortunately, Conservative people of all religions are taught up to dislike the people of other faiths, if not openly, then covertly, by their religious parents, schools, etc, which is why Conservatives have a problem accepting people of other religions. Liberals, on the other hand, are brought up to be accepting of differences, so they have zero problems allying with Liberals of other backgrounds.

Conservatives have a big weakness -- they always tend to be in favour of keeping the status quo, which unfortunately sometimes mean having supported slavery (in America), and being against women's education (in Saudi Arabia), However, the problem is that Conservatives see these indefensible, evil things, as good, so defend them. In the end it often occurs that Conservatives manage to keep their society from accepting economic and social innovations that keep them backwards in relation to other, more open societies.

If Conservatives are to unite in any manner, they must first swear off the xenophobia, anti-US/anti-Muslim feelings (on both sides), and learn to tolerate other religions. But unfortunately, Conservatives often are so convinced that they, and only they, represent the Forces of Good , and that accepting other religions is like signing a deal with the devil. As long as this feeling persists, they cannot unite.

I don't much care about Liberalism posing a threat to Muslim countries, because I live in a "secular", democratic Muslim-majority country, and of course, all Muslims refrain from acts forbidden by Islam, even if it is totally legal. For that reason the negative effects of liberalism don't seem to affect us much. I don't think secularism/Liberalism will ever pose a threat to Muslim countries, like it has corrupted the West.

Life is about, you can't have it all. Being a Conservative Religious Believer has its plus sides and its downsides, that is the eternal contradiction of life itself. But, you make some good points, and I want to address them:

It is the nature of Conservatism and Religion to care for and "conserve" and when you do that you develop principles that are very firm, because that is what taking responsibility is all about. Therefore, Conservative Religious Believers are actually more pluralistic than Liberal Secularists. Difference being, Liberal "pluralism" is just for show, because Liberal Secularists don't really care about anything other than what feels good at the moment, so they are basically irresponsible. Being foot-loose and fancy free, they can afford to uh-huh everyones vices and proclivities and hence they are very non-judgmental because they don't judge, as they have no values to judge on. Of course, except, they are very judgmental about Conservative Religious Believers, as a general principle, because we are the only ones that have any principles that can attack their heathen ways.

Problems arise in organization and contesting with each other. Libs are broadly in agreement with each other all over the world, and so can muster a united front at any moment, whereas Conservatives are very hard to get to come together in any sort of coalition agreement to work together, but when they do, look out, they are ferocious because of the strength of their convictions.

There are many things of various sorts that Conservatives and Religious People will die for, so to speak, whereas there is nothing that a Secular Liberal Humanists will die for. Their "principles" are a mile wide and an inch deep of shallow water. It is just the opposite for Conservatives. Understand, these two sides have their strengths and weaknesses which need to well understood by our side in order to deal with them. Which is exactly why I do this thread and such.

Conservatives need to be morally armed, trained, disciplined, and intellectually prepared to work around and through their weaknesses and capitalize on their strengths. For these reasons it is all the more important for us to tend to getting ourselves together at every level including internationally and across all barriers. The hardest job is the one that cries out to be done. So, put your shoulder to the wheel and let's do it. I'm at FounnderChurch@Gmail.Com and looking to work on this with anyone who cares...

titumir, please tell us where you live.

USA near the Capital, which is the center of the earth at this particular time, for good or ill. But, I consider myself a citizen of the earth and beyond, and want to reach out to every sentient being that shares my views.

I have laid out here a substantial part of a plan to change world history. People can carp about this plan, but what plan do they have? I have a plan, not infallible plan, but a plan, and there are other components that I haven't gone into. I'm serious about my and our responsibility to God this earth and our and our brothers and sisters. This is serious stuff.

Why me? I don't know, but I do know I know what I am talking about and can provide good leadership on these matters. I'm willing to do so. Now it is up to your who read these posts. Read all of the posts, and think about what the whole thread has to say, and then pray as to whether it follows God's Will.

If, in your view, it conforms to what God has to say, then let's begin to act on it, and bring others to this cause. I personally need nothing of any material sort, but this cause needs millions if not billions of both money and believers.

I have laid out here a substantial part of a plan to change world history. People can carp about this plan, but what plan do they have? I have a plan, not infallible plan, but a plan, and there are other components that I haven't gone into. I'm serious about my and our responsibility to God this earth and our and our brothers and sisters. This is serious stuff.

Why me? I don't know, but I do know I know what I am talking about and can provide good leadership on these matters. I'm willing to do so. Now it is up to your who read these posts. Read all of the posts, and think about what the whole thread has to say, and then pray as to whether it follows God's Will.

If, in your view, it conforms to what God has to say, then let's begin to act on it, and bring others to this cause. I personally need nothing of any material sort, but this cause needs millions if not billions of both money and believers.

[Guest Stefan]

USA near the Capital,

In your previous post, you said you live in a Muslim-majority country.USA is not a Muslim-majority country.

So where do you live ?

[FounderChurch 0]

In your previous post, you said you live in a Muslim-majority country.USA is not a Muslim-majority country.

So where do you live ?

I don't believe I said that. You might be confusing me with another poster.

[beardedbaker 806]

Good and intelligent questions. I will do my best to answer:

I come at this subject with a World View, And this is the best start I can make in addressing what you have raised. I might add that everyone on earth has their own World View, which is the basic framework they bring to any discussion of every topic, and the basis for the acts they engage every day.

Many people's WV may not be as elaborate as others, but they all still have a WV. Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, Ghadafi, and Obama all have a WV for sure. Though everyone has one, most people, including many in high places, are very reticent about stating what it is publicly. I am not, for I have spent many, many years deciding exactly what mine is. I started out with no more knowledge than anyone else, but after thousands and thousands of hours studying and researching, this is what I have come up with:

There is such a thing as Good and Evil, and the world is divided between those who pursue evil and those who pursue good. All of the Holy Books of the entire world state this categorically, and repeatedly. They don't stutter and stammer about it, they forcefully take sides. Now, evil people hate this situation, and deny there is even such a thing as good and evil. It is their greatest fear that they will be evaluated and found to be evil. They walk in constant fear of this.

When I looked at history, where all this is put on display, I found it pretty easy to fish out the good from the evil, and found the Holy Books to be spot-on in diagnosing good and evil. Thus, everything I have found to be true, I have found to be echoed in the Holy Books. I was surprised that they all agreed with me. This made it easy for me to be a Believer in God. In short I found no error in the Holy Books.

Using that focus, when I looked at the most evil persons, and the most evil regimes, I found them to be very alike. There was little difference between Pharaoh, Herod, Nero, Lenin, Hitler and Stalin. I found them all to be Leftists for one thing.

I found that practically all of America's problem in her history were traceable to the influence, ideology and actions of her Democrat Party, composed of what I call, the Liberals. I took a long list of good things, and a long list of bad things, and I found that they neatly fit the two parties of the Right and Left .

In short, I found that every nation on earth throughout human history has had essentially these two parties who have fought for control of the nation. These parties are called by different names in different times and climes, but their public policies are remarkably the same across the spectrum. Slavery of all types was always, and is today, a feature of the Left, as well as immorality of every imaginable type. Central Government control is another constant, as well as a hostility to the family, and the authority of the family, and a constant bribery of the people through welfare of one sort and another. The Left has always been hostile to God, and has been consistently hostile to human life at every stage, before conception, after conception, after birth ,and continuing on to old age.

Now, this is just a beginning of an examination of what you have raised. I know that. And I have not begun to answer all you might want me to, but it is a beginning. Later...

if what you say is true you would never vote for either party.

you want to be a revultionary christian who loves his country? oppose the status-quo.

[FounderChurch 0]

if what you say is true you would never vote for either party.

you want to be a revultionary christian who loves his country? oppose the status-quo.

Sorry, but in America there can only be two political parties. It's what the Constitution specifies. All Thirds have been disasters throughout our history, so don't even think of going there. What must happen is to have our "interest" group inside one or both parties, and take one or both over. It is the hard work path to revolution in America, unless the electoral process is disbanded.

But, yes that is the case with me. The Status quo is the obstacle that needs to be moved aside. In general the Republican Party is the better choice as it stands now. The key is Conservative Believers having a worldwide alliance. The Liberals are at the throat of ALL religions, and therefore all religions must coalition together to stop them.

Freedom of religion allows all religions to compete producing the best product.

[Photi 11]

Is the Shaitan a conservative or a liberal? Is our nafs constrained by such trite categorizations? Our religion already tells us the origins of good and evil, your weltanschauung is useless.

Muslims have it pretty good in the US, why would we want to revolt?

Edited May 2, 2011 by Photi

[beardedbaker 806]

Sorry, but in America there can only be two political parties. It's what the Constitution specifies. All Thirds have been disasters throughout our history, so don't even think of going there. What must happen is to have our "interest" group inside one or both parties, and take one or both over. It is the hard work path to revolution in America, unless the electoral process is disbanded.

But, yes that is the case with me. The Status quo is the obstacle that needs to be moved aside. In general the Republican Party is the better choice as it stands now. The key is Conservative Believers having a worldwide alliance. The Liberals are at the throat of ALL religions, and therefore all religions must coalition together to stop them.

Freedom of religion allows all religions to compete producing the best product.

yeah, I think your constitution lost its value a while back bro, so I'm sure people won't mind updating some lines to accomodate the changing tides of time.

you will also find, if you sit down for a minute and contemplate, that you are your own obstacle. free your mind from this narrow world outlook.

liberals are at the throat of ALL religions?? next you'll tell me envangelical christians like Eric Prince are angels of peace and justice when they send their mercinaries to

shower bullets of love and compassion into iraqi girls and mothers.

the best product is already here bro, you just need to open your eyes and mind a bit more, and it doesn't need to compete with anything.

[FounderChurch 0]

yeah, I think your constitution lost its value a while back bro, so I'm sure people won't mind updating some lines to accomodate the changing tides of time.

you will also find, if you sit down for a minute and contemplate, that you are your own obstacle. free your mind from this narrow world outlook.

liberals are at the throat of ALL religions?? next you'll tell me envangelical christians like Eric Prince are angels of peace and justice when they send their mercinaries to

shower bullets of love and compassion into iraqi girls and mothers.

the best product is already here bro, you just need to open your eyes and mind a bit more, and it doesn't need to compete with anything.

Our Constitution lost it value, what it has lost, because Liberals have intentionally eroded it. The same Liberals you seem to support. I notice you use a Ghetto expression "Bro" which is a mark of ignorance in our society.

I have a problem with anyone who addresses me as "Bro" because that usually means the person is going to hit you up for some money with threats, or try to sell you some drugs. In any case it means the person is uneducated and uncivilized.

And yes, we do mind "updating some lines to accomodate the changing tides of time." I am not my own obstacle, you may be your own obstacle, but I am not my own obstacle. And I don't need to "free" my mind from any so-called "narrow world outlook. As far as I can tell you offer nothing and contribute nothing to this discussion.

[beardedbaker 806]

Our Constitution lost it value, what it has lost, because Liberals have intentionally eroded it. The same Liberals you seem to support. I notice you use a Ghetto expression "Bro" which is a mark of ignorance in our society.

I have a problem with anyone who addresses me as "Bro" because that usually means the person is going to hit you up for some money with threats, or try to sell you some drugs. In any case it means the person is uneducated and uncivilized.

And yes, we do mind "updating some lines to accomodate the changing tides of time." I am not my own obstacle, you may be your own obstacle, but I am not my own obstacle. And I don't need to "free" my mind from any so-called "narrow world outlook. As far as I can tell you offer nothing and contribute nothing to this discussion.

what discussion? there's nothing to contribute to BRO, on yer bike.

[Guest Stefan]

I don't believe I said that. You might be confusing me with another poster.

Yes, I'm sorry, I confused you with titumir.

But that's because you answered my question "where do you live?" which was addressed to titumir, not you :)

[FounderChurch 0]

Yes, I'm sorry, I confused you with titumir.

But that's because you answered my question "where do you live?" which was addressed to titumir, not you :)

Well, now on to the issue of how we create the worldwide Conservative Alliance to oppose the already existing worldwide Liberal alliance.

The problem with Osama, is that he never understood that you wage war not against your friends, (Conservatives everywhere) but your enemies, Liberals everywhere including inside Islam and every Islamic country. Drunks are drunks, whether they are so-called Christians, or so called Muslims, or so-called Jews.

All drinkers are, by definition, Liberals, as well, as all baby killers, and all who believe in divorce, and all who are anti-family, and all who hate religion, and all who favor Gay Marriage, and Contraception. And you can quote me on this.....

Edited May 10, 2011 by Haji 2003
I've shifted the quote marks, I don't think stefan said the material in bold onwards

[Photi 11]

God has told the Muslims that divorce is okay if necessary though it is discouraged. God has also told the Muslims that sex for pleasure within a marriage is okay, therefore non-permanent forms of contraception are permissible. FounderChurch, are you saying you know better than Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì?

[FounderChurch 0]

God has told the Muslims that divorce is okay if necessary though it is discouraged. God has also told the Muslims that sex for pleasure within a marriage is okay, therefore non-permanent forms of contraception are permissible. FounderChurch, are you saying you know better than Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì?

You twist the word of God. It does NOT say Contraception is OK. You twist God's law for your own selfish purposes and then blame God for your killing of your own children. Shame on you,

You will surely go to Hell for that. You also should be executed by criminal law if we had true human justice. No religion on earth sanctions killing babies by contraception.

This is strictly a man made evil to satisfy man's blood thirsty, evil, lustful and hateful purposes. God will burn all such, who do not repent, as He should.

[beardedbaker 806]

Well, now on to the issue of how we create the worldwide Conservative Alliance to oppose the already existing worldwide Liberal alliance.

The problem with Osama, is that he never understood that you wage war not against your friends, (Conservatives everywhere) but your enemies, Liberals everywhere including inside Islam and every Islamic country. Drunks are drunks, whether they are so-called Christians, or so called Muslims, or so-called Jews.

All drinkers are, by definition, Liberals, as well, as all baby killers, and all who believe in divorce, and all who are anti-family, and all who hate religion, and all who favor Gay Marriage, and Contraception. And you can quote me on this.....

waht makes you think osama bin laden (ex-CIA stooge) represents conservative Islam in any shape or form?

what do you understand conservative Islam to be?

[kadhim 1,753]

Sorry, but in America there can only be two political parties.It's what the Constitution specifies. All Thirds have been disasters throughout our history, so don't even think of going there. What must happen is to have our "interest" group inside one or both parties, and take one or both over. It is the hard work path to revolution in America, unless the electoral process is disbanded.

What Constitution are you reading from? The notion of political party is not even mentioned in the document. Not once. You can quote me on that.

[FounderChurch 0]

waht makes you think osama bin laden (ex-CIA stooge) represents conservative Islam in any shape or form?

what do you understand conservative Islam to be?

Conservatism is the same in every religion, and every nation and culture. It is, Family Values, primarily, and includes opposition to things like modern art, alcohol, and drugs of all sorts, and certainly opposition to Gary marriage and Gay rights.

It opposes divorce, and so-called kiddie rights, and interference by government in religion in any way. The family has a right to run its own business without government oversight. And favors privatizing everything possible including education. And it opposes unions generally.

These issues are not owned by anyone. Liberals are on the opposite side of all these issues. If the shoe fits, wear it.

You need to think and study instead of shouting propaganda.

What Constitution are you reading from? The notion of political party is not even mentioned in the document. Not once. You can quote me on that.

The US Constitution is a winner take all, and has no provision for proportional representation, like Canada has.

You need to study instead of talking without doing any education or research.

[kadhim 1,753]

The US Constitution is a winner take all, and has no provision for proportional representation, like Canada has.

You need to study instead of talking without doing any education or research.

I can guarantee that I've spent much, much more time studying your constitution than you have.

I repeat: Demonstrate where the notion of a political party is even mentioned in the US Constitution. Article and paragraph.

Canada does not have proportional representation, moron. We have a parliamentary system with representatives elected by plurality of votes.

[FounderChurch 0]

There is a spectrum among Liberals and Conservatives that runs from Right to Left. Neither category is pure.

These East West wars recently involving Christian and Muslim Countries are not in the interest of good Conservative people on either side.

They have been sparked by Liberals on each side. Saddam and Bush were both way too Liberal. Look at their lifestyle in each case. Naturally they went to war with each other.

But it all starts off by Western Liberals, working with "Muslim" Liberals to degrade the people of Muslim Countries. That is what we must understand.

Liberals in Muslim Countries share the same values as Liberals in Western (Christian) Countries.

What are those Liberal values? They are drinking, whoring, anti-religion attitudes, drugs, corruption, immorality of all types, and the degrading of the underlying cultures of all civilizations, families, religions, ethnicities, and countries. Among their shared values is a deep disloyalty to their own nation. The art, music, movies, and TV they enjoy reflect all this. But keep in mind there is no perfection anywhere, so we must choose the lesser of evils in each case.

What are the Conservative values in all these countries and religions? They are more or less the opposites of the Liberal values.

Now these two sets of opposite values can be found in every religion, in every country, and sometimes within every family. This is what the "Culture War" in service to the one God is all about, and it is the only war worth fighting, or giving ones life to. The Muslim-Liberal is the exact mirror image of the Western-Christian Liberal.

This is why Bush is not a true Conservative, though he is much more Conservative than the Democrat. This is why It was, and is, counter productive to blow up buildings in America or anywhere else as it kills all kinds of people, both Liberals and Conservatives without any distinction.

The best and proper strategy for those who want to preserve and protect the Muslim family, culture, religion, and nation is to join with those who think the same way in the West, and not to consider ALL Westerners, Christians and Jews as enemies, much less go to war with them. Blind violence begets more blind violence.

We must see the real enemy as existing right in our own countries, and in all our religions, and in all our communities. Muslims who ape the degenerate, disgusting Western Liberal Lifestyle are not Muslims at all. They are just junk so-called humans.

That is all I am saying. Now Liberals, whether they are Muslim or Christian are going to hate what I say, and I understand that, but true Conservative Muslims and true Conservative Christians, and Jews, and Hindus, and Buddhists should understand they are all brothers. The evil Jew is the Liberal Jew and so on. It is a sin for Conservatives of any religion to attack Conservatives of any other religion.

Now, maybe I am asking too much of people, and calling on them to use brains they don't have. If so, I'm sorry for expecting too much of people, but I cannot change my views just because people don't understand and accept them.

Right here on this board anyone can see the breakdown between those who are Conservative and those who are Liberal. It is real clear. The dirty Liberal Muslims are going to defend in one way or another their dirty liberal buddies in the West. I am speaking about people's secret agendas now.

I just want Conservatives to reach across national lines to support each other, that is all. The Liberals of all religions and nations always want to corrupt the youth, and turn the all the young girls into [Edited Out]s and the young boys into sodomites. That is just their dirty values, and they need to be opposed, no matter what religion or nationality they claim to be part of.

I didn't say this kind of thing was easy, but I have said it is right, and godly, and good.

And finally, Birth Control of any type takes human life, period. Anything, of any sort, that is done to "prevent" a child from being born is taking that child's life, period.

Now, once that is said, maybe, I say maybe, in some cases, a case could be made that taking that that innocent life was godly, and with God's approval, and in God's interest, but, it would still be taking life, and that fact is a non-negotiable truth. I never said that every single instance of birth control in the world was wrong. What I said, was that it was taking human life, and has to be justified if done.

[Son of Placid 1,469]

Why don't you just call them Illuminati and be done with it? What was it you planned to do? How were you going to override biblical prophecy? Who says it can be cut, dried, and piled into one political adgenda? Your manner of thinking has you looking thru the forest for one tree.

Think about it Mr Christian, it's written in your book first what's going to happen. We all know it's coming and as it appears we all regonize it to some extent. What I don't see is a prophecy about a religious group dominating it and delivering the earth back to God. How much grief and oppression should I bring upon myself for a losing battle? Another thing I don't see is Christians encouraged to get into politics.

You are going to need a much more open mind to even fathom what all is going on right now...let alone in the future. Better you take some time out in the fresh air to clear your head. You are either missing something or follow the wrong leader. Any level of success in your quest would only make you part of the machine.

gtbms...