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In the Name of God بسم الله

Three Times Not Five?

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I'm a sunni considering shiasm.

I see the shias point of why we are to pray three times

"Establish regular prayers at the Sun's decline till the darkness of

the night, and the recital of the Quran in the morning prayer; for the

recital of the dawn is Witnessed. [17:78]"

HOWEVER, shias also say it is good to pray five times. Sooo, i'm kind of confused if the quran states three times, why would shia belief say five is also permissible.

thanks =)

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(salam)

The Quran mentions the five prayers but only three time periods for them. So the time of dhuhr and 'asr is shared and the time of Maghrib and 'isha' is shared. However the fadeela (best) time to pray 'asr and isha is at a specific time (that Sunnis pray it at).

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I'm a sunni considering shiasm.

I see the shias point of why we are to pray three times

"Establish regular prayers at the Sun's decline till the darkness of

the night, and the recital of the Quran in the morning prayer; for the

recital of the dawn is Witnessed. [17:78]"

HOWEVER, shias also say it is good to pray five times. Sooo, i'm kind of confused if the quran states three times, why would shia belief say five is also permissible.

thanks =)

Salaam,

Just like how during shahr Ramadhan, we are often told there are two times for eating; before Fajr, and after Maghrib, but this does not necessarily mean that we can only eat twice and more than twice being impermissible. I hope that makes sense; I just made that up. Hehe.

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  • Advanced Member

I'm a sunni considering shiasm.

I see the shias point of why we are to pray three times

"Establish regular prayers at the Sun's decline till the darkness of

the night, and the recital of the Quran in the morning prayer; for the

recital of the dawn is Witnessed. [17:78]"

HOWEVER, shias also say it is good to pray five times. Sooo, i'm kind of confused if the quran states three times, why would shia belief say five is also permissible.

thanks =)

(salam)

There are 5 prayers at 5 times. Allah swt through his mercy allows us to pray dhur + asar and maghrib + isha back to back for any reason. So if you think you might not make the asar or isha prayer or for any reason you may combine them.

(salam)

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If you believe the Sunni Hadith, Bukhari 9.093.608; Allah initially wanted his followers to pray 50 times in a day and a night.

Then the Prophet descended till he met Moses, and then Moses stopped him and asked, "O Muhammad ! What did your Lord en join upon you?" The Prophet replied," He enjoined upon me to perform fifty prayers in a day and a night." Moses said, "Your followers cannot do that; Go back so that your Lord may reduce it for you and for them." So the Prophet turned to Gabriel as if he wanted to consult him about that issue. Gabriel told him of his opinion, saying, "Yes, if you wish." So Gabriel ascended with him to the Irresistible and said while he was in his place, "O Lord, please lighten our burden as my followers cannot do that." So Allah deducted for him ten prayers where upon he returned to Moses who stopped him again and kept on sending him back to his Lord till the enjoined prayers were reduced to only five prayers.

source -- http://www.usc.edu/s...tml#009.093.608

That's a prayer every 28 minutes and 48 seconds.

Kind Regards,

Farside 21.gif

Edited by farside
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(bismillah)

(salam)

From Sunni Sources: Why the Asr prayer may be prayed immediately after Zuhr, and the Isha prayer immediately after Maghrib

___________

It is narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbas, that he said that the Messenger of Allah prayed Zuhr and Asr together, and also Maghrib and Isha, although he was neither in a state of fear nor on a journey.

Saheeh Muslim, Vol. I, p.264

___________

Ibn Abbas narrates that the Messenger of Allah recited the Zuhr and Asr prayers together, and also said the Maghrib and Isha prayers, although he was neither in a state of fear, nor was there any other cause, e.g. rain. It is related from Waki that he asked Ibn Abbas the reason (for the joint prayers). Ibn Abbas replied: So that the followers (of the Prophet) may not experience inconvenience and difficulty.

(1) Saheeh Muslim, Vol. I, p.265

(2) Jami Tirmizee, p. 54

___________

Abdullah Bin Shaqeeq narrates that one day after the Asr prayer, Ibn Abbas began delivering a sermon which was so long that the sun set and the stars appeared. People began to shout: Salat! Salat! (as it was time for Maghrib prayer). Ibn Abbas paid no heed to them until someone from Bani Tameem stood up and shouted continously: Salat! Salat! Ibn Abbas responded: Woe unto you! You wish to teach me the Sunnat? He said: I have personally seen the Messenger of Allah pray the Zuhr and Asr prayers together, and likewise, the Maghrib and Isha prayers.

The narrator says: This statement of Ibn Abbas kept disturbing my conscience until I went and asked Abu Huraira about it, and he attested to what Ibn Abbas had said.

Saheeh Muslim, Vol. 1 p. 265

___________

It is related from Ibn Abbas that the Prophet at one time recited seven rakats of prayers, and at another time eight rakats, i.e. he recited the Maghrib and Isha prayers together, and the Zuhr and Asr prayers together.

Saheeh Bukhari, Part I, p.72

___________

It is narrated by Ibn Abbas that in Madina the Prophet used to recite two prayers together (Zuhr and Asr, and Maghrib and Isha), without there being any fear or rainfall. When asked about the reason for this, he said: The Prophet desired that his followers may not suffer inconvenience, and therefore the two prayers may be recited together.

Sunan Nasaee, p. 290

___________

From: http://www.shia.org/AboutPrayers.htm

The part I just pasted here can be found at the bottom of that page. The page also provides ahadeeth from Sunni sources in regards to doing Sujood (Prostration) on earth.

So, just to conclude, you can pray zuhr and asr, back to back (but you must of course seperate them into two prayers, some people think shias pray 8 rakkaats, that's wrong.. The Zuhr and Asr is the same as for sunnis, 4 rakaats each, two seperate prayers. But as the Hadeeths show, we are allowed to pray them immediatly after eachother if we want to.

Edited by MAK
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We pray five times after three distinct moments in a day. The qor'aan only mentions these three moments and that is when we pray,

1) When a shade of light rises over the horizon, but before the sun has risen, we pray sobh

2) When the sun is at its highest point of the day (noon),but before the sun has gone under again, we pray zohr and asr

3) When the sun has gone under, but before midnight, we pray magreb and esha.

Now doesn't the above make more sense for people of all ages, as opposed to five times in a day with a specific timetable? With regards to some people here saying that there are actually five times in a day that one can pray, but that it is allowed to pray at the three qoraanic references, I'd like proof of that, because five moments of prayers makes no sense. Imagine people hundreds of years ago having to pray at five distinct sun angles. I can tell you that most people in this world would have a difficult time understanding angles (in this age, let alone long ago). They could have memorized arm positions or had a stick and measure shadow distance, but that is not practical and prone to mistake.

The point is, some mechanisms could be thought of, but they're not practical. This while the qor'aanic verse is already clear on the times to pray.

Edited by Simorgh
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(salam)

The Quran mentions the five prayers but only three time periods for them. So the time of dhuhr and 'asr is shared and the time of Maghrib and 'isha' is shared. However the fadeela (best) time to pray 'asr and isha is at a specific time (that Sunnis pray it at).

(wasalam)

I don't think we share the same times with the Sunnis for the best times to pray Salat al-`Asr and Salat al-`Ishaa.

Shaykh al-Mufeed in Kitab al-Ishraaf (http://www.*******.org/fiqh/kitab-al-ishraf):

<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">ÈÇÈ ÚÏÏ ÚáÇãÇÊ ÇáãæÇÞíÊ :

æ ÚÏÏåÇ ÎãÓ ÈÚÏÏåÇ : ÒæÇá ÇáÔãÓ ááÙåÑ ¡ æ ÇáÝÑÇÛ ãä ÓÈÍÉ ÇáÚÕÑ ááÚÕÑ Ãæ ãÞÏÇÑ Ðáß ãä ÇáÒãÇä ¡ æ ÓÞæØ ÇáÞÑÕ ááãÛÑÈ ¡ æ ãÛíÈ ÇáÔÝÞ ááÚÔÇÁ ÇáÂÎÑÉ ¡ æ ÇÚÊÑÇÖ ÇáÝÌÑ ááÛÏÇÉ .

Number of signs for the timings:

Their number is five by their number: the declension (zawal) of the sun for zhuhr, being done with the subha of `asr (the tasbeeh) for `asr or the measure of that from the time, setting of the disk (of the sun) for maghrib, the disappearance of the horizon (i.e. the redness of the western sky) for the final `isha, and the appearance of dawn (fajr) for the second day.

Asr: time taken for tasbeeh

Isha: Very roughly about 15 minutes from Maghrib.

Peace.

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