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In the Name of God بسم الله

Taqleed, Choosing A Marja.

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MohammedA

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So I learned that it is wajib to choose a marja. I usually kind of follow all of them, I respect them all and so follow all their rulings. Am I required to follow just one? If I choose one, can I follow the rules of others the same time?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Since rulings of Marjas differ in some matters you cant follow all of them. You should therefore follow the most learned Marja.

Most of the time its one Marja that you follow, But in case there are several different Marjs that excell over each other in different fields you should follow each one of them in those respected fields. In other words, if one scholar is most learned in all fields you follow him. But if different Marjas are most learned in different fields you could end up following more than one Marja. For example if one scholar is most learned in religious issues relarted to Banking and Finance you follow him in those issues. and if another Marja is most learned in say Medical issues you follow him in those issues.

Now as to who is the most learned, you need to consult Ahly Khubra.

WS

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If that were really true, wouldn't you think all those other maraji` would then be obliged to refer people to him and close their offices?

I said 'scholars', not Maraji3.

Every Marji3 thinks they are the most knowledgable - thats the condition of being a Marji3 in the first place. You cant let people follow you unless you truly believe you're the most knowledgable.

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Well, according to certain scholar's you should follow the most knowledgeable... that doesn't mean that all scholars think that, nor does it mean one is required to follow the most knowledgeable.

If say you were doing taqleed to a marja' who says to follow the most knowledgeable, then in that case you'd have to adopt that idea when looking for another marja'

If not adopting this opinion, you can follow either opinion.

Most people will tell you to follow Sistani for being the most 'alim.

But if we look into rulings of other Marja3 and scolars it is not required

Something I highly recommend you read:

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/Fatawa/ijtihad.htm

From Sayyed Fadhlallah (ra)

5. Suppose there were many jurists around. Is it permissible to emulate any of them, or does it have to be the most learned among them?

A. It is not obligatory to emulate the most knowledgeable. It suffices to follow any one of them, provided that he is a practicing mujtahid as has been discussed.

6. How can a person know the mujtahid so described?

A. He can be recognized by a number of ways, among which are:

a. The testimony of two just witnesses among the competent mujtahids, or luminaries, who are capable of academic appraisal. The meaning of ’just’ will be discussed under paragraph (27) of this chapter.

b. The follower’s own experience and first hand knowledge, i.e. if he had the knowledge that allows him to express an opinion, even though he is not a mujtahid himself. Finally, any other means that may lead the follower to reach certitude that particular alim he has followed is a jurist. Thus, he can be justified in following the jurist in matters of religious practice.

An example of this method is the jurist’s popularity, in that it could be widely believed within the circles of Ulama and dignitaries, or within the Islamic nation (Ummah) that he is capable of deducing legal opinion. This may lead to personal satisfaction that the alim you have entrusted your religious affairs to is really mujtahid.

---

Every Marji3 thinks they are the most knowledgable - thats the condition of being a Marji3 in the first place. You cant let people follow you unless you truly believe you're the most knowledgable.

I agree, that's why I find the whole "pick the most knowledgeable" ruling funny when coming from a marja

Edited by Ali_Ibn_Hussein
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I said 'scholars', not Maraji3.

Every Marji3 thinks they are the most knowledgable - thats the condition of being a Marji3 in the first place. You cant let people follow you unless you truly believe you're the most knowledgable.

Are not maraji` supposed to be the highest ranking scholars? And if they can't agree on who is the most learned, how in the world could scholars less knowledgeable than them figure it out? Anyhow, my point was more that your statement is not itself correct. While some scholars might think Sayyid Sistani is the most learned, obviously not all of them do else we would not have so many maraji` and offices.

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Ok, so what is an Ahly Khubra?

It's a person you go to that will throw out ahadith to you, then you make your own fatwa up, so basically you become your own mujtahid and do taqlid to 'yourself'. Or you can follow their advice, so in essence they'll become your marja', but they'll still tell you that ijtihad is forbidden.

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Ok, so what is an Ahly Khubra? Is it like a local mosque imam that is more knowledgeable than me who I ask for recommendations?

Ahlul Khibra are those scholars who are knowledgeable in the matters of taqlid and marji'iyah who are able to tell who is a qualified marja' and who is the most knowledgeable.

My own opinion: Most of the well-known living maraji' today (Sayed Khamenei, Sayed Sistani, etc. ) are all qualified to be the a'lam (most knowledgeable) and that taqlid to any of them is valid. You should do your own research (ask others if you want) and decide which of them you consider most knowledgeable. My personal recommendation is to not choose one unless their website has a decent question system.

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Ok, so what is an Ahly Khubra? Is it like a local mosque imam that is more knowledgeable than me who I ask for recommendations?

I've taken this from Sayyed Sistani website

The ahlul khibra are the mujtahids and those next in line in religious sciences, and they know quite well that one person in a limited group of mujtahids is the a'lam. And they have to consider the following three things to identify that a'lam:

First: His knowledge concerning the methods for providing the authenticity of the hadith, and that involves 'ilmu 'r-rijal (the science of narrators of hadith) and 'ilmu 'l-hadith (the science of hadith). On this subject, issues like familiarity with the books [of hadith] and the ahadith that have been tampered with; knowledge of causes for fabrication [of ahadith]; variance in the manuscripts and distinguishing the most correct one; and being aware of confusion which sometimes occurs between the text of a hadith and the explanation of the compilers, are of utmost importance.

Second: His ability to understand the meaning of the text by considering the general rules of speech, especially the style used by the Imams of Ahlul Bayt (a.s.) in describing the laws. The science of 'usûlu 'l-fiqh (Principles of Jurisprudence), Arabic grammar and literature, as well as familiarity with the views of the Sunni jurists who were contemporaries of the Imams play an important role in the understanding of the hadith texts.

Third: Soundness of his view in deriving the rules from the sources. And the method of getting acquainted with those in whom the status of a'lam is confined to having scholarly discussions with them or to referring to their books or to the transcripts of their lectures on Jurisprudence and the Principles of Jurisprudence. If a person cannot know the ahlul khibra by himself, he can come to know them through the religious scholars and others whom he trusts. The geographical distance should not be a barrier to establishing communication with them in this era where many fast means of communication are easily available.

more http://researchintoothersects.blogspot.com/2011/03/ways-to-distinguished-learned-faqih.html

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(salam)

(bismillah)

What is up with the influx of taqleed and ijtihaad topics. We were going good for a while, but lately it seems to be the only topic coming up. Aren't there many many other things to talk about in Shee`ah Islaam?

(salam)

(wasalam)

Maybe you're knowledgeable enough not to have to worry about it but the vast majority of Shi'a are not. They have to talk about this or else they'll be lost in fiqhi matters. And it's still better than the mut'ah topics...

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Asalamou 'aleykoum,

We must choose the real shia! Not those who reject Al-Barra`.

you have: Seyyed Sistani (ha); Seyyed Sadiq Shirazi (ha); Seyyed Rouhani (ha); Grand Ayatollah Hossein Vahid Khorasani (ha); etc.

How dare you tell people to follow an apostate (mulhid) ?!?!

Doesn't your Wali al-Faqih (the twit mujtaba shirazi) say that Ayatollah Waheed al-Khorasani has failed in the test of Tawhid and became an apostate ?!!!

Mujtaba should smack you harder next time when he's teaching you .. it seems like the smacks you're getting arent hard enough to put the REAL knowledge in your rotten brain.

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The most common answer I get of who's the most knowledgeable is Ayatollah Sistani and Ayatollah Wahid Khorasani. However, the former is more accessible as his stuff is in English, so it's more practical to follow him if you don't understand Arabic or Persian.

Edited by Replicant
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Are not maraji` supposed to be the highest ranking scholars? And if they can't agree on who is the most learned, how in the world could scholars less knowledgeable than them figure it out? Anyhow, my point was more that your statement is not itself correct. While some scholars might think Sayyid Sistani is the most learned, obviously not all of them do else we would not have so many maraji` and offices.

I meant generally; obviously not every single scholar is going to agree, that would be ridiculous.

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How dare you tell people to follow an apostate (mulhid) ?!?!

Doesn't your Wali al-Faqih (the twit mujtaba shirazi) say that Ayatollah Waheed al-Khorasani has failed in the test of Tawhid and became an apostate ?!!!

Mujtaba should smack you harder next time when he's teaching you .. it seems like the smacks you're getting arent hard enough to put the REAL knowledge in your rotten brain.

on one hand u call him ayatollah and on the other u fail him in tauheed. U can't defame and speak against an alim like that. Show me whom u follow and I will fail him in tauheed too.

Just kidding but u can't be harsh on a person who has learnt for so many years of life whatif he failed in tauheed, he knows how to wash himself

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I've taken this from Sayyed Sistani website

The ahlul khibra are the mujtahids and those next in line in religious sciences, and they know quite well that one person in a limited group of mujtahids is the a'lam. And they have to consider the following three things to identify that a'lam:

First: His knowledge concerning the methods for providing the authenticity of the hadith, and that involves 'ilmu 'r-rijal (the science of narrators of hadith) and 'ilmu 'l-hadith (the science of hadith). On this subject, issues like familiarity with the books [of hadith] and the ahadith that have been tampered with; knowledge of causes for fabrication [of ahadith]; variance in the manuscripts and distinguishing the most correct one; and being aware of confusion which sometimes occurs between the text of a hadith and the explanation of the compilers, are of utmost importance.

Second: His ability to understand the meaning of the text by considering the general rules of speech, especially the style used by the Imams of Ahlul Bayt (a.s.) in describing the laws. The science of 'usûlu 'l-fiqh (Principles of Jurisprudence), Arabic grammar and literature, as well as familiarity with the views of the Sunni jurists who were contemporaries of the Imams play an important role in the understanding of the hadith texts.

Third: Soundness of his view in deriving the rules from the sources. And the method of getting acquainted with those in whom the status of a'lam is confined to having scholarly discussions with them or to referring to their books or to the transcripts of their lectures on Jurisprudence and the Principles of Jurisprudence. If a person cannot know the ahlul khibra by himself, he can come to know them through the religious scholars and others whom he trusts. The geographical distance should not be a barrier to establishing communication with them in this era where many fast means of communication are easily available.

more http://researchintoo...rned-faqih.html

++

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(salam)

(bismillah)

And it's still better than the mut'ah topics...

I would have to disagree brother. Both topics are old, but at least in the mut`a topic you have aHaadeeth upon aHaadeeth for various rulings to almost anything regarding it. While with this taqleed and choosing a marja` topic, there are no explicit hadeeth about this.

(salam)

Edited by Nader Zaveri
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How dare you tell people to follow an apostate (mulhid) ?!?!

Doesn't your Wali al-Faqih (the twit mujtaba shirazi) say that Ayatollah Waheed al-Khorasani has failed in the test of Tawhid and became an apostate ?!!!

Mujtaba should smack you harder next time when he's teaching you .. it seems like the smacks you're getting arent hard enough to put the REAL knowledge in your rotten brain.

blablabla, the batri!

where I mentioned mujtaba shirazi in this topic? you're off topic!

Lovers of Ibn 'Arabi:

قُلۡ يَـٰٓأَيُّہَا ٱلۡڪَـٰفِرُونَ (١) لَآ أَعۡبُدُ مَا تَعۡبُدُونَ (٢) وَلَآ أَنتُمۡ عَـٰبِدُونَ مَآ أَعۡبُدُ (٣) وَلَآ أَنَا۟ عَابِدٌ۬ مَّا عَبَدتُّمۡ (٤) وَلَآ أَنتُمۡ عَـٰبِدُونَ مَآ أَعۡبُدُ (٥) لَكُمۡ دِينُكُمۡ وَلِىَ دِينِ (٦)

Edited by Jihad-Fadak
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(salam)

(bismillah)

I would have to disagree brother. Both topics are old, but at least in the mut`a topic you have aHaadeeth upon aHaadeeth for various rulings to almost anything regarding it. While with this taqleed and choosing a marja` topic, there are no explicit hadeeth about this.

(salam)

(wasalam)

Well that's the whole point really. The lack of exact ahadith means that we must discuss these issues in order to come to a conclusion, rather than just opening up wasa'il al-shia.

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(salam)

(bismillah)

What is up with the influx of taqleed and ijtihaad topics. We were going good for a while, but lately it seems to be the only topic coming up. Aren't there many many other things to talk about in Shee`ah Islaam?

(salam)

Nader is absolutely right. We have too many taqleed related topics and it is getting boring.

How about we put the ShiaChat Akhbaris on the hot seat? We almost don't get to hear their side of the story, for e.g. is there any hadeeth that support their school of thought/position? How does one become one and is it true that there are no more pure Akhbarism? :)

Maybe someone should do the honor and start a topic on behalf of them.

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Are you for real sis? Half the people here don't agree with ijtihad or paying khums to a Marja', they're always posting, which is why there are so many ijtihad topics.

Is that the reason someone becomes Akhbari? Because they don't wanna pay their due and they like to make up their own fatwa?

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Is that the reason someone becomes Akhbari? Because they don't wanna pay their due and they like to make up their own fatwa?

Not make up their fatwa but rather refuse to give a ruling on something not explicitly mentioned by the Imams. They also tend to take ahadith literally and don't confine them within a context.

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Is that the reason someone becomes Akhbari? Because they don't wanna pay their due and they like to make up their own fatwa?

Yup pretty much.

It's called ego.

As mentioned in the previous post, the concept itself doesn't make sense. If person A is opening up wasa'il or bihar and regurgitating ahadith and person B is interpreting the ahadith they way they like, then person B in effect is doing "taqlid" to themselves.

When asked about modern topics which aren't to be found in ahadith, they formulate their opinions based on the ahadith and then give a 'conclusion' which is basically the job of a Marja', so they're in fact practicing ijtihad without even knowing it, they're now 'Ahlul Khibra'.

If a person wants to do taqlid to themselves, let them go and study in a hawza and reach a mujtahid level.

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(salam)

(bismillah)

When asked about modern topics which aren't to be found in ahadith, they formulate their opinions based on the ahadith and then give a 'conclusion' which is basically the job of a Marja', so they're in fact practicing ijtihad without even knowing it, they're now 'Ahlul Khibra'.

Well see that is the issue why you won't find TRUE akhbaarism. Per TRUE akhbaarism, if the statement isn't found explicitly in hadeeth, then you must do tawaqquf (desist) on giving a fatwa and act on precaution. This is the MAJOR difference between Usoolis and Akhbaaris.

If someone who is claiming to be akhbaaris doesn't follow that method, then they are a sham.

(salam)

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(salam)

Should I start a new topic?

Well see that is the issue why you won't find TRUE akhbaarism. Per TRUE akhbaarism, if the statement isn't found explicitly in hadeeth, then you must do tawaqquf (desist) on giving a fatwa and act on precaution. This is the MAJOR difference between Usoolis and Akhbaaris.

Still, this doesn't disapprove Bro Ya Aba's statement. ("When asked about modern topics which aren't to be found in ahadith, they formulate their opinions based on the ahadith and then give a 'conclusion' which is basically the job of a Marja', so they're in fact practicing ijtihad without even knowing it, they're now 'Ahlul Khibra'.")

Are you not making up your own rulings when you act on what you claim is not found in the hadith? :huh:

If someone who is claiming to be akhbaaris doesn't follow that method, then they are a sham.

I think I remember once you telling us you are not an Akhbari but a hybrid. A hybrid of what? Macisaac also said he follows something. Something what? Do both of you follow the same methodology?

Also, what about the whole range of pseudo-Akhbaris (from South Asia) whose whole faith/existence (as I have noticed) depends on Sayyed non-Sayyed marriages, not paying khums and matam with blades.

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(salam)

Also, what about the whole range of pseudo-Akhbaris (from South Asia) whose whole faith/existence (as I have noticed) depends on Sayyed non-Sayyed marriages, not paying khums and matam with blades.

Talk about biased sweeping statements,so typical.!

All attempts to devide and existing divisions within the imam e zamana (as)'s Shias are void and would qualify as within the parameters of Haram. Every time u snobishly point a finger to a fellow Shia demeaning him/her for their faith, remember that you r not perfect, and u'll b answerable for it. The problem is that there r many pseudo scholars and maulanas that r spreading this fire and propaganda against the other. It's mostly about the economics, pathetically. They even make up things from their imaginations & pose like their one foot is already into paradise.

(ps. didn't expect such bias frm u)

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Talk about biased sweeping statements,so typical.!

The problem is that there r many pseudo scholars and maulanas that r spreading this fire and propaganda against the other. It's mostly about the economics, pathetically. They even make up things from their imaginations & pose like their one foot is already into paradise.

(ps. didn't expect such bias frm u)

I was speaking about pseudo-Akhbaris. Do you consider yourself one?

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