Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Tens Of Thousands Syrian Pro Govt Protesters.

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

Torture and forced confessions in secret Syrian prisons. Video and text in link below. It shows any Syrian news reports of prisoners admitting to foreign backing etc... cant be taken as truthful due to torture and forced confessions.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/2011518184325620380.html

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 467
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

  • Advanced Member

Yeah but if America does it, it's gathering information.

Dorothy is full of [Edited Out], she was caught with transmitting equipment entering the country under a tourist visa. She never actually saw any "torture", but if I had these foreign terrorists or traitors in my hands, I'd a lot more than just torture them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Yeah but if America does it, it's gathering information.

(salam)

This is so true. The Western regimes also speak of abuse in other nations but often neglect their own human rights abuses (like when the US sent Blackwater mercenaries to Iraq and now the UAE).

Do you live in Syria or have family in that nation? I know a Syrian christian in one of my classes who has family in Syria and she says that she's worried about the protests that are gaining momentum--mainly because of all the propaganda spreading around from the West, Wahhabis, the Syrian government, and US-funded Syrian opposition newspapers. She also says that her family, however, don't really see much of the protests and when she was in Syria three weeks ago, she didn't hear much about the protests. Do you personally support the Ba'ath regime--especially when its filled with as much political and economic corruption (Makhlouf) as it has now? Do you think there's any hope for reforms even if Bashar Al-Assad finally has power of his own government? It also has killed over 900 people so far according to Western and reports from the Middle East. If you live in Syria or have relations within the country, could you please give more info about the situation? I am sure everyone here would appreciate it. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I think its safe to say that there are deaths, protests, torture, etc. that are taking place in Syria.

However, they are not in large volumes as the Western media makes it out to be.

Even Iran reported about some of the issues in Syria. They were quiet for a large period of time, but did mention facts about soldiers and protestors colliding over differences. But they refused to go into further details and analysis for important reasons.

I don't trust the word of many people on these threads for the obvious reasons.

Many of them are loyalists that either live in Damascus or some other big city and more times than not, live a good life and could careless about the rest of the population in the rural areas.

Christians, Alawis, Greeks, and Shiites are likely to be pro-current govt. for obvious reasons.

Syrian Kurds are split in the middle.

While most of the Syrian Sunnis (at least the rural ones) are likely to be against the govt. because of poverty.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)

I figured as much with all the propaganda flying from all over--I also read a Lebanese source that said about only 30 dead overall so far. Also pro-Syrian revolt sources haven't reported any attacks that Syrian protestors have done on the police. Oh well... I also find it strange that the Zionists, the top of the US gov't, and the Saudis want to keep Assad's rule (probably to stop any more "chaos" in the Middle East from going on). I really wish that a news agency or nation that stood for complete Haq reported the true situation. I think that either one of two things should happen--Bashar al-Assad stays in power and implements all-around reforms a democracy (with or without some Islamic elements) forms that keeps syrian groups safe from any radical threats from pro-Saudi groups. Worst case scenarios: pro-Western puppet or Salafist government in Syria. I, however, am truly praying that this revolt unleashes the Sufyani (LA)--I don't know if that's wrong or not but insh'Allah may the appearance of Imam Mahdi (as) hasten!

Shiaben--you live in the US like I do. Have you seen how the US politicians have been milking this situation? They just want to stage an attack on Syria and isolate Iran on all sides until they can overthrow its government. Of course, with US debt and the fact that Iranians are too nationalistic and strong-willed to let that happen though, LOL, I'm sure that won't happen and all this Syrian business in the US gov't will blow over soon after the government falls/protests end. Also, I find the only slightly reliable source Josh Landis of Syria Comment.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Yeah, I agree. They've even hired this Iranian journalist that is as 100x annoying as Amanpour.

By blocking out Syria from Iran, they will be able to separate Lebanon from Iran, and make things more miserable than they are.

Well, I hope they fail (though at the same time I hope Assad can respect the Syrian Sunni working class as their conditions are not that great).

Edited by ShiaBen
Link to post
Share on other sites

Latest news updates from Syria.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13510044

Human rights activists say more than 850 people have been killed and thousands arrested since the operation to quell dissent began in March.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/05/201152013723847215.html

Syrian security forces have killed at least 34 people, including an 11-year-old boy, according to witnesses, in the latest crackdown on anti-government protests.

Syrian regime trying to hide the bodies of innocent protesters murdered by security forces in mass graves like the Serbs did.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2011/05/syria-uprising-torture-human-rights-mass-grave.html

A young Syrian boy whose grandfather and relatives were killed and dumped into a mass grave vows revenge, in the latest sign that the weeks-long uprising against the rule of Bashar Assad and his family will continue.

A young man described as the grandchild of Abdulrazaq Abdulaziz Abazeid was shown in a video posted online promising to avenge the death of his family, dug out of a mass grave last week.

The bodies of two generations of Abazeid men, a father and his four sons, were all found in one mass grave with an additional 35 bodies belonging to pro-democracy protesters.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Stefan

Human rights activists say more than 850 people have been killed and thousands arrested since the operation to quell dissent began in March.

Still waiting for baradar_jackson to come to remind us how much the Syrians love Assad.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Latest news updates from Syria.

Yawn, repeats. Crisis is over, just have to hunt down terrorists who like to kill pedestrians on Fridays now.

Still waiting for baradar_jackson to come to remind us how much the Syrians love Assad.

Oh- ho ho sarcasm. No wonder your country (Romania) is in the state it is, maybe if you stop cracking stupid jokes and focus on finding employment, your country will not be the eyesore of Europe any longer.

Christians, Alawis, Greeks, and Shiites are likely to be pro-current govt. for obvious reasons.

Syrian Kurds are split in the middle.

While most of the Syrian Sunnis (at least the rural ones) are likely to be against the govt. because of poverty.

I know you meant well but your sectarian speculation is utter garbage. Maybe this is the way it is in your country, but ours is UNITED. There are cases of nepotism I do not like, but hopefully this will begin to scale down with increased transparency and independent oversight.

Just for your reference (and I've mentioned this before on this forum) I come from a Sunni family who was very powerful until the Ba'ath came in. I'm not religious myself (you can say I'm agnostic).

I'm sure that won't happen and all this Syrian business in the US gov't will blow over soon after the government falls/protests end

Protests have mostly ended, they never really begun on a mass-scale anyway (peaked at 50,000, people stopped going out when the salafists starting killing people, I'd say 7000 or so were the bad elements the rest were genuine). Government is in the reform process so as long as that keeps going speculating that it will "fall" is pretty silly.

know a Syrian christian in one of my classes who has family in Syria and she says that she's worried about the protests that are gaining momentum--mainly because of all the propaganda spreading around from the West, Wahhabis, the Syrian government, and US-funded Syrian opposition newspapers.

The momentum is gone, the salafists played their game out too quickly, if they stuck to the plan it would be much larger now, but they just couldn't help themselves. Idiots, lol.

She also says that her family, however, don't really see much of the protests and when she was in Syria three weeks ago, she didn't hear much about the protests.

It's all smokes and mirrors from al-khanzeera et al., if you turn them off the protests disappear, in your mind and in reality.

See Da'ra for example:

Even the small girl understands the situation more than 98% of idiotic westerners. They're that brainwashed and deluded.

Also here's the real face of Qatar:

http://www.twitter.com/#!/alkhanzeera

Do you personally support the Ba'ath regime--especially when its filled with as much political and economic corruption (Makhlouf) as it has now?

I support Bashaar, but I don't support Ba'ath in its current form. In theory it has some great ideals, but as with any socialist system, it tends to corrupt absolutely. Rami is a pretty aggressive business man and has fooled many outsiders, so I don't really see him as the villan the west is trying to paint him as. Just a smart, politically-connected businessman. I agree though, he wouldn't be as powerful if the government was less corrupt.

Do you think there's any hope for reforms even if Bashar Al-Assad finally has power of his own government?

I think Bashaar is stronger in the government than ever. Before he was being used as a shield by the old guard, but now he's more in control. The reform process is guaranteed to bear fruits in a few years. You can't exactly reform your way out of the status-quo, but with fairer rules, less abuse of power by those in control and more oversight, Syria will become stronger than ever.

It also has killed over 900 people so far according to Western and reports from the Middle East.

This number is a complete fantasy and the majority of people getting killed are being killed by TERRORISTS. You really need to open your eyes and ask some genuine Syrians, not just idiots who are buying into alkhanzeera, living in Europe because their uncle Khaddam got kicked out of Damascus.

Video for your reference from Homs:

Edited by Schrodinger
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yawn, repeats. Crisis is over, just have to hunt down terrorists who like to kill pedestrians on Fridays now.

The Syrian army soldiers are going to start shooting each other then? :D

I know you meant well but your sectarian speculation is utter garbage. Maybe this is the way it is in your country, but ours is UNITED. There are cases of nepotism I do not like, but hopefully this will begin to scale down with increased transparency and independent oversight.

Independent oversight meaning Assad's billionaire cousin doing the oversight rather than his billionaire brother? :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

No retard, they'll shoot at terrorist animal salafists who cut off people's head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9qHpH9x-QE

(I WARN YOU GUYS, DO NOT FOLLOW THIS LINK, JUST TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.)

Your sarcasm is crass and gains you no points, indeed it is passive-aggressive trashy behaviour that only impresses other equally stupid westerners.

Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/syria-video-points-%E2%80%98shoot-kill%E2%80%99-policy-security-forces-2011-05-26

Syria video points to ‘shoot to kill’ policy of security forces

26 May 2011

Amnesty International has obtained video footage that points to a ”shoot to kill” policy being used by the Syrian security forces to quell reform protests.

The footage, smuggled out of Syria by contacts of Amnesty International, shows protesters shot and beaten by security forces, soldiers conducting a night raid on the ‘Omari mosque in Dera’a and a mass funeral in Izraa.

“These extraordinary images were taken by Syrians who have risked their lives to document the callous attempts of the authorities to terrorize the pro-reform movement from going out onto the streets,” said Philip Luther, Amnesty International’s Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa.

“Faced with this and other compelling evidence of rampant abuses, President Bashar al-Assad must stop the Syrian security forces shooting unarmed protesters and ensure that perpetrators are held to account for their treatment of fellow Syrians.”

The video includes scenes of:

• The military raiding the ‘Omari mosque, which was being used as a field hospital.

• Soldiers armed men in plain clothes inside the mosque after their operation, filming bodies on the floor, celebrating and shouting “Take pictures, we killed them, they are traitors”.

• Badly injured, possibly dead, individuals being carried hurriedly away.

• People who appear to have sustained severe head injuries and in some cases to have died as a result.

• Two scenes of uniformed members of the security forces bludgeoning injured men lying on the road.

• Testimony from an ambulance worker who tells of how the army would not let anyone tend to the wounded.

The footage was shot in late March and April in and around the city of Dera’a. It shows the kind of tactics being used by the authorities in their crackdown against protesters, which currently continues in the cities of Banias, Homs and elsewhere.

The video also shows large groups of children joining the protests and the funerals of some six people, including a boy and an old man. The security forces have dispersed such funerals with lethal force on a number of occasions.

“Images of unarmed civilians shot in the head help explain why there have been so many fatalities. Together with footage of soldiers celebrating deaths, they document what appears to be a ‘shoot to kill’ policy,” said Philip Luther.

“Other clips showing the bludgeoning of men lying on the ground – one of whom seems to have been already shot and critically injured – highlight the wanton cruelty of the regime’s security apparatus.”

Amnesty International has the names of more then 720 people believed to have been killed by the Syrian security forces during the past two months of unrest sparked by protests throughout the region.

“These videos add to the damning collection of reasons why the UN Security Council must take decisive action and refer Syria to the International Criminal Court over its brutal crackdown against pro-reform protesters,” said Philip Luther.

Assad and his generals will be joining Ratko Mladic in the UN war crimes court in The Hague!!

Edited by Irishman
Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/eu-syria-sanctions-must-prompt-tougher-un-action-2011-05-23

23 May 2011

New European Union sanctions on President Bashar al-Assad of Syria should prompt the UN and Arab League to take tougher action against Syria over its violent crackdown against protesters, Amnesty International said today.

The European Union today imposed fresh sanctions on Syria, including personal asset freezes and travel bans on President al-Assad and other senior government figures.

“We welcome the measures that the EU and the US government have now taken against President al-Assad and those around him, but the danger is that this will prove to be too little too late,” said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty International’s Director for the Middle East and North Africa.

“The UN Security Council must now take more determined action on Syria and follow the precedent it set when Colonel al-Gaddafi’s government began attacking its own people in Libya.”

“This is precisely what the Syrian government has been doing for weeks and it is high time that the Security Council also referred Syria to the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.”

“The Security Council’s failure to take similar action is sending entirely the wrong signal to the government in Damascus. Syria’s leaders must be told, and be told firmly, that they will not escape accountability and justice for the crimes that are now being committed under their authority in Syria.”

Amnesty International has the names of more then 720 people killed by the Syrian security forces during the past two months of unrest and demonstrations sparked by protests throughout the region. These included 60 people killed on Friday 20 May and Saturday 21 May.

Thousands more are believed to be detained incommunicado and to be at risk of torture, which has been used systematically by the Syrian government over many years.

“The Arab League must also step up and take firm action on Syria,” said Malcolm Smart.

“The UN and the Arab League need to take action to impose a comprehensive arms embargo on Syria, and global asset freezes on President Assad and those around him.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

“The Arab League must also step up and take firm action on Syria,” said Malcolm Smart.

(salam)

The Arab League will probably not take any action countering Syria because, though the Arab League nations do not have good relations with Syria, most Arab League nations, like Saudi Arabia, do not want to see any more "instability" in the Middle East that could instigate revolts causing their own government to fall.

I can see some good in Al-Assad's new reforms that he has implemented recently, but I'm not sure if this will appease anti-Syrian protestors at all--especially since the Muslim Brotherhood have gained greater control of the revolt and are now sending representatives to Turkey in order to create an alternative to the Ba'athist regime.

@Schrodinger:

Where in Syria do you live and how is the political climate there?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Crazy article. Shocking. Here is an excerpt:

"A month had passed by with his family not knowing where he is, or if or when will he be released. He was released to his family as a dead body. Upon examining his body, the signs of torture are very clear.

There were a few bullets in his body used as a way of torture rather than to kill him with. Clear signs of severe physical abuse appeared on the body such as marks done with hands, sticks, and shoes. Hamza's penis was also cut off."

Here is the article: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hd6lvkFmBHfOdilqo6IU3SniC1Nw?docId=CNG.3e52658d1fdbadff778404c0f022f256.5a1

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Syria is a confusing mess, if you ask me. The protester facebook pages I see claim to be peaceful and the regime claims it's cracking down on armed gangs, and there seem to be reports that confirm both. From what I've read, some anti-government groups are indeed armed and terrorizing citizens, which some protesters acknowledge. I have trouble believing that all of the protesters are peaceful and I have trouble believing the security forces are not attacking unarmed protesters. So I'm a little indifferent. However, I think the current regime's anti-Zionist position should be preserved whether Assad stays or goes.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Check out this article from RT:

Syria: an uncanny revolution

On the day I arrived in Damascus, I was flooded by stories you won’t find in any of the newspapers. Mostly, they related to incidents of violent crime.

In one, a young man approached a car with four officers in it. Standing in front of the vehicle and talking by cell phone, the drivers could not move their car. And then, seemingly out of nowhere, four young men on motorbikes appeared, shot the officers point-blank and sped away.

Shortly before that, on another road, unknown assailants forced an officer to stop his car as they callously killed him and the three children he was traveling with. Horrifically, their bodies were hacked to pieces with sabers.

A high-ranking government supporter recounted these shocking stories to me. He’s convinced that there is no people’s revolt, but rather a series of criminal assaults and the clandestine activities of foreign spies who want to destabilize the country in typical divide and conquer fashion.

People in the street eagerly joined in on the conversation. But it’s impossible to reach your friends by phone. Many do everything they can to avoid journalists-behavior which is highly uncharacteristic of the Syrian people.

Syrian TV lists the names of those soldiers and officers who have been killed, offices which were burned out by the rebels, the heartbreaking scenes of funerals and the grieving relatives of the dead. Conversely, Foreign TV channels broadcast short, grainy videos where it’s difficult to make anything out, though one does get an ominous sense of disaster: the picture flickers as the presenter’s voice announces that a peaceful march was dispersed.He then goes on to list the number of casualties.

And yet against this supposedly inauspicious backdrop, one can walk alone in Damascus at any time, day or night. There is no overt military or police presence on the streets. Not long ago, Syria was one of the safest countries in the world. No checkpoints on the roads, patrols, road-side inspections or other signs of a militarized society. Even now, Syria does not look much like the “bloody dictatorship” described by the foreign media.

Neither the people nor the government knows what is going on in different cities around the country.

The only thing that’s clear is that riots have happened on Fridays throughout mosques in urban population centers around the country; someone attacks the troops; innocent people die. Political demands seem to be immaterial in this so-called revolution. There are rumors that somebody wants to divide the country into 25 emirates.It is also said that Russian and Iranian flags are burned in some regions for their support of Syria while the Israel flag is flown in protest against Assad’s policies.

Such reports are, to say the least, highly dubious. Some are dissatisfied that there are too many Alawites in the government; others blame the Sunnis who are allegedly infected by the propaganda of “pure Islam.” A number of sheiks addressed the media and the authorities, demanding that they stop disparaging the various branches of Islam in attempts to scapegoat them for the civil unrest. Whatever is happening, it doesn’t appear to be connected with religion.

One member of the Ba’ath central committee political bureau, Yasser Hourirh, described the disturbances as follows:

“There is a group of activists; they number no more than 100-150 people. They move around the country, come into different mosques on Fridays and if there are enough people, they cry out from the exits of the mosques , ‘There is no God but Allah!’ But we all state that. Meanwhile, one of them records it on camera, and in the end you get a picture of many protesters at a mosque – the media story is ready.

“People say they were paid for coming to these types of rallies: $100 for half an hour on the square. Such people are released within a couple of days. But those setting houses on fire will stand trial. None of those detained put forward any political demands or social programs. Aren’t they strange revolutionaries?”

“There is another tactic. During a rally, the front rows step aside when a signal is given, as armed militants appear from behind. They shoot at soldiers who are forbidden to use guns. Ten policemen were recently killed in just this way, as two others who had been wounded later died after their throats were cut. Is that really the democratic way?”

“The third tactic is that armed militants in the crowd or concealed positions start shooting at the crowds leaving mosque. The media says that the government kills peaceful people. Our police and army did not have weapons at first. But when they began to be targeted, they were allowed to carry weapons for self-defense only. But the West continues to say that the army is killing unarmed protesters. Why don’t they mention the number of officers killed?”

Professor Hourirh is from Homs and often visits the city, which is constantly in the news. And he is surprised to hear that the instigators come from certain Salafi groups. After the first rallies, representatives of the protesters met with Assad and informed him of their demands. They were reasonable requests related to schools, roads and hospitals. The authorities suggested a plan to resolve the situation. But the rallies went on despite the fact that an agreement had been reached. The protesters do not state political demands, unless one considers the motto “Bashar, leave!” as such.

“Why did they set fire to the house of the mayor, the court building, the anti-drug trafficking committee and the TV channel’s office?” Hourirh demanded. “What’s the idea behind these actions? Why is it called a peaceful demonstration if they carry guns? The videos from Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya and BBC were not shot in Syria – they are fakes. They want a repeat of the Libyan scenario. But Syria has a three-million-strong diaspora which will not let them do such a thing to their country. These people have strong worldwide connections with their relatives, and you can’t con them with those fakeries.”

He’s sure that Syria’s problem is not internally generated, but rather the side-effect of its critical stance toward Israel.

“If Syria would keep silent and not demand the return of the Golan Heights, if it didn’t protect the rights of the Palestinians, if it were Iran’s enemy, the West would have called it a democratic country,” he said. “But Syria represents a real locus of opposition for Israel, and the US does not want it. We’ve settled all border disputes with Turkey without any interference on behalf of the West. The US takes care of Israel but not any of the Arab countries. Obama says that the US is a guarantee for Israel. But why is he not giving any guarantees to Palestinians? Why does the US media keep silent when Israel kills Palestinians?”

A persistent call for reforms, according to Hourirh, was heard by Assad and did not bring anyone the expected results.

“The government was looking at Europe with credulous eyes, and we paid doubly for that,” he declared. “The West did not do any good for the country, and people blame us for having trusted them. Damascus is the most ancient city in the world, it can afford to be open, but the West does not want to let the East be open – that’s the paradox. Turkey has followed that path to the end and learned the bitter lesson. For ten years, many new hotels have been built, crowds of foreigners came to Syria, but the West insists that there are no changes in the country. So far, the change we see is that democratization of the economy only makes the poor poorer.”

­Nadezhda Kevorkova, RT

http://rt.com/news/syria-country-people-west/

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Check out this article from RT:

http://rt.com/news/syria-country-people-west/

(salam)

JazakAllah Khair for that article, brother. Russia Today is a good news organization in my opinion.

It brings new, disturbing information though--if it's all correct. What Yasser Hourirh said in the article seems to have some falsehood and truth--I can't believe that only 100 to 150 protestors are causing al-Assad to implement reforms in Syria. There are more members or people sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood than that as well. But what he says at the end is very true about how Syria's position on Israel and Iran is the major reason anti-Syrian propaganda has spread in the West, otherwise the West would continue support Syria as it is supporting Ibn Al-Khalifa in Bahrain right now.

It's obvious that some of the Syrian protestors are not peaceful like Western media attempts to portray them as they have killed several police officers. The police officers too, however, have killed civilians, some of which may have been part of Salafist groups, others simply asking for the end of economic corruption within the nation.

I am worried that if these protests are successful, will they accomplish anything? It seems that they could cause more trouble for Syria and the Middle East than good.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

(salam)

JazakAllah Khair for that article, brother. Russia Today is a good news organization in my opinion.

It brings new, disturbing information though--if it's all correct. What Yasser Hourirh said in the article seems to have some falsehood and truth--I can't believe that only 100 to 150 protestors are causing al-Assad to implement reforms in Syria. There are more members or people sympathetic to the Muslim Brotherhood than that as well. But what he says at the end is very true about how Syria's position on Israel and Iran is the major reason anti-Syrian propaganda has spread in the West, otherwise the West would continue support Syria as it is supporting Ibn Al-Khalifa in Bahrain right now.

It's obvious that some of the Syrian protestors are not peaceful like Western media attempts to portray them as they have killed several police officers. The police officers too, however, have killed civilians, some of which may have been part of Salafist groups, others simply asking for the end of economic corruption within the nation.

I am worried that if these protests are successful, will they accomplish anything? It seems that they could cause more trouble for Syria and the Middle East than good.

I'm with Hezbollah in agreeing that Assad, unlike Al-Khalifa, is actually willing to make reforms. There is serious misinformation concerning Syria.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I'm with Hezbollah in agreeing that Assad, unlike Al-Khalifa, is actually willing to make reforms. There is serious misinformation concerning Syria.

(salam)

This is true, but I'm not sure if al-Assad can create enough reforms to appease some of the protestors. He already implemented some, but I'm not sure if elements of the military or some of his corrupt family members would appreciate it.

Hamid ibn Al-Khalifa, on the other hand, will probably not ever reform--he said he would create a "constitutional" monarchy in 2002, but it never happened.

Saintly, I think what all we non-Syrians can do right now is wait for how things play out in this nation.

Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

This is true, but I'm not sure if al-Assad can create enough reforms to appease some of the protestors. He already implemented some, but I'm not sure if elements of the military or some of his corrupt family members would appreciate it.

Hamid ibn Al-Khalifa, on the other hand, will probably not ever reform--he said he would create a "constitutional" monarchy in 2002, but it never happened.

Saintly, I think what all we non-Syrians can do right now is wait for how things play out in this nation.

The solution is very simple - democracy. Living in USA you should know this (or would you prefer Ku Klux Klan dictatorship). But Assad obviously does not like democracy.

Democratic countries do not make wars with each other. Israel is already democratic. Egypt is on its way. But too many arabic and muslim countries are still dictatorships.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The solution is very simple - democracy. Living in USA you should know this (or would you prefer Ku Klux Klan dictatorship). But Assad obviously does not like democracy.

Democratic countries do not make wars with each other. Israel is already democratic. Egypt is on its way. But too many arabic and muslim countries are still dictatorships.

(salam)

:lol:

Why would I support the KKK? Of all Western government systems, racist fascism is the worst in my opinion. I definitely do not support that Ba'athist regime in Syria, but the fall of the regime could cause major implications for the Middle East and Syria. If the Assad regime falls, so be it. If it doesn't, reform to help the poor Sunnis within the nation should be implemented (as I have reiterated on this thread).

And please do not tell me that democracies do not war with each other. Not only that, but the US also led coups against democracies in Chile, Iran, Guatemala, etc. Nations war with one another based upon their interests, not their form of government.

If the Zionist entity is democratic, so is Gaza. They elected Hamas, right?

Most Arab nations are ruled by dictators and these dictators stay in power because they are helped by Western democratic powers (Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Jordan, Saddam's pre-PersianGulf War Iraq, etc.).

Edited by Mumin
Link to post
Share on other sites

The solution is very simple - democracy. Living in USA you should know this (or would you prefer Ku Klux Klan dictatorship). But Assad obviously does not like democracy.

Democratic countries do not make wars with each other. Israel is already democratic. Egypt is on its way. But too many arabic and muslim countries are still dictatorships.

This sounds straight from a neocon source.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The solution is very simple - democracy. Living in USA you should know this (or would you prefer Ku Klux Klan dictatorship). But Assad obviously does not like democracy.

Democratic countries do not make wars with each other. Israel is already democratic. Egypt is on its way. But too many arabic and muslim countries are still dictatorships.

I think you're on the wrong forum homie

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The solution is very simple - democracy. Living in USA you should know this (or would you prefer Ku Klux Klan dictatorship). But Assad obviously does not like democracy.

Democratic countries do not make wars with each other. Israel is already democratic. Egypt is on its way. But too many arabic and muslim countries are still dictatorships.

ThisNeverHappenedToTheOtherGuy.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

:lol:

Why would I support the KKK? Of all Western government systems, racist fascism is the worst in my opinion. I definitely do not support that Ba'athist regime in Syria, but the fall of the regime could cause major implications for the Middle East and Syria. If the Assad regime falls, so be it. If it doesn't, reform to help the poor Sunnis within the nation should be implemented (as I have reiterated on this thread).

And please do not tell me that democracies do not war with each other. Not only that, but the US also led coups against democracies in Chile, Iran, Guatemala, etc. Nations war with one another based upon their interests, not their form of government.

If the Zionist entity is democratic, so is Gaza. They elected Hamas, right?

Most Arab nations are ruled by dictators and these dictators stay in power because they are helped by Western democratic powers (Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Jordan, Saddam's pre-PersianGulf War Iraq, etc.).

As long as the Assad regime remains, Syria will still be a dictatorship. Whether there will be reforms or not is up to the dictator to decide. This was why I gave KKK as an example. In a KKK dictatorship it is unimportant whether you support it or not (and I am conviinced that you don´t). So you should be grateful that you live in a country, where you are allowed to criticize the government and even vote against it. Maybe I am wrong, but I have a feeling you do not realise how privileged you are, compared to people in muslim countries.Maybe this is why you don´t understand that the peolple of Syria might also wish to enjoy human rights and democracy as you do in USA.

I mostly disagree with US foreign poliitics. And the coups against democracies were of course most disgusting. USA has often supported dictatorships and is still supporting e.g Saudiarabia. As a US citizen (I suppose) it is your responsibility yo change that. (although I know it is not easy to make narrowminded american voters understand) . But can you mention a war between two democratic countries?

It is true that palestinians elected Hamas. But what happened then to the palestinian democracy? When will the next elections take place? What about the president? How does the palestinian ruling party deal with the opposition?

Compare with the situation in Knesset!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with Hezbollah in agreeing that Assad, unlike Al-Khalifa, is actually willing to make reforms. There is serious misinformation concerning Syria.

Shame he made none in his 10 or 11 years as President. At least none that are moving the country away from dictatorship, and autocratic rule. Still no real opposition political parties, the 'emergency laws' that remained in place and only lifted ( in words only and not actions by the looks of things ) after protests. We keep hearing the 'old guard' wont let Assad make reforms, so how long we need to wait then?. Another ten years, twenty?. Maybe crown Prince Al-Khalifa will make reforms, when the old guard are out of the way, maybe we can apply the same criteria to him as to Assad then?

As Hezbollah saying Assad will make reforms, well strategically he is important to they. Hezbollah can not be seen as a neutral group passing judgement in this case, no more than the US can about Bahrain.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In Yemen, they are called Al Qaeda terrorists, in Syria, they are referred to as ''armed residents putting up resistance to the Syrian army''.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110530/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_syria

I think you will probably notice that all protesters in Syria are referred to as armed foreign back terrorists in most Syrian and some other countries news agencies. Yemen seems to have a mix of protesters and Al Qaeda terrorists, but in different parts of the country, with regard to most foreign news agencies.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110530/wl_afp/yemenpoliticsunrest

Yemeni forces kill 20 protesters as sit-in smashed

SANAA (AFP) – Forces loyal to the embattled Yemeni president killed 20 protesters as they dispersed a sit-in in Taez, an organiser said on Monday, as suspected Al-Qaeda gunmen killed six soldiers in the south.

Security service agents backed by army and Republican Guard troops stormed the protest against President Ali Abdullah Saleh in Freedom Square in the centre of Yemen's second-largest city during the night, shooting at the demonstrators and setting fire to their tents, protesters said.

"At least 20 protesters have been killed," one of the protest organisers said.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members

No retard, they'll shoot at terrorist animal salafists who cut off people's head

Your sarcasm is crass and gains you no points, indeed it is passive-aggressive trashy behaviour that only impresses other equally stupid westerners.

If u dont mind me asking whats this video about ?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)

As long as the Assad regime remains, Syria will still be a dictatorship. Whether there will be reforms or not is up to the dictator to decide. This was why I gave KKK as an example. In a KKK dictatorship it is unimportant whether you support it or not (and I am conviinced that you don´t). So you should be grateful that you live in a country, where you are allowed to criticize the government and even vote against it. Maybe I am wrong, but I have a feeling you do not realise how privileged you are, compared to people in muslim countries.Maybe this is why you don´t understand that the peolple of Syria might also wish to enjoy human rights and democracy as you do in USA.

I mostly disagree with US foreign poliitics. And the coups against democracies were of course most disgusting. USA has often supported dictatorships and is still supporting e.g Saudiarabia. As a US citizen (I suppose) it is your responsibility yo change that. (although I know it is not easy to make narrowminded american voters understand) . But can you mention a war between two democratic countries?

It is true that palestinians elected Hamas. But what happened then to the palestinian democracy? When will the next elections take place? What about the president? How does the palestinian ruling party deal with the opposition?

Compare with the situation in Knesset!

As I have said before, if the people of Syria manage to take over the government, so be it. If they manage to do so, I, however, worry if they will actually be able to create a government that would help the position of the Sunnis within the nation. If they do not, then al-Assad should insititute several reforms that would stamp out corruption, place competent politicians in the government, and reduce the government's overall power.

It seems that you follow Democratic Peace Theory. Here's a list of wars fought between democracies: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/demowar.htm

I suppose it really depends on one's opinion on what truly is a democracy. The definition is somewhat fixed but people argue on whether certain nations can be considered a democracy.

The next election for the Palestinians will take place inshAllah in September when the Palestinian state is recognized by the UN.

Shame he made none in his 10 or 11 years as President. At least none that are moving the country away from dictatorship, and autocratic rule. Still no real opposition political parties, the 'emergency laws' that remained in place and only lifted ( in words only and not actions by the looks of things ) after protests. We keep hearing the 'old guard' wont let Assad make reforms, so how long we need to wait then?. Another ten years, twenty?. Maybe crown Prince Al-Khalifa will make reforms, when the old guard are out of the way, maybe we can apply the same criteria to him as to Assad then?

As Hezbollah saying Assad will make reforms, well strategically he is important to they. Hezbollah can not be seen as a neutral group passing judgement in this case, no more than the US can about Bahrain.

The Al-Khalifa family has not made reforms for 228 years. They are less likely to do so than Assad. Also Hamid ibn Al-Khalifa does not have an old guard preventing him from doing anything. Hamid ibn Al-Khalifa simply wants to keep power and "stability" within his nation and gain as much aid from the GCC and the US as possible.

In Yemen, they are called Al Qaeda terrorists, in Syria, they are referred to as ''armed residents putting up resistance to the Syrian army''.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110530/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_syria

The people who fight against anti-Western governments are the heroes, while those who fight against pro-Western governments are foreign agents and terrorists.

I think you will probably notice that all protesters in Syria are referred to as armed foreign back terrorists in most Syrian and some other countries news agencies. Yemen seems to have a mix of protesters and Al Qaeda terrorists, but in different parts of the country, with regard to most foreign news agencies.

Saleh wants to paint all the protestors as helpers of Al-Qaida or "Houthis" wishing to reestablish the Zaydi caliphate in Yemen. There are some members of Al-Qaida who are using the protests as a way to infiltrate the nation, but the vast majority of protestors are not affiliated with Al-Qaida. I have a thread called "Saleh's New Hope" in this forum which shows a news article about Saleh's new attacks against tribesmen. The Yemeni government right now wishes to create a civil war to hold on to power--just days after Saleh "warned" that there would be a civil war.

Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

As I have said before, if the people of Syria manage to take over the government, so be it. If they manage to do so, I, however, worry if they will actually be able to create a government that would help the position of the Sunnis within the nation. If they do not, then al-Assad should insititute several reforms that would stamp out corruption, place competent politicians in the government, and reduce the government's overall power.

It seems that you follow Democratic Peace Theory. Here's a list of wars fought between democracies: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/demowar.htm

I suppose it really depends on one's opinion on what truly is a democracy. The definition is somewhat fixed but people argue on whether certain nations can be considered a democracy.

The next election for the Palestinians will take place inshAllah in September when the Palestinian state is recognized by the UN.

If the people of Syria manage to take over the government, you can probably forget about Assad. Or do you really think he would have a chance in democratic elections, after what he has done to his people? But why not trust the Syrian people? Or do you think they are all hooligans who love corruption and hate competence?

I am convinced the Syrians are no less intelligent than any other people and like any other people they also wish to live in peace. A democratic Syria would be happy to establish diplomatic relations with Israel. And Israel would not hesitate to return the Golan heights to a democratic Syria.

I agree that it depends on ones opinion what truly is a democracy. And maybe we can discuss that in another thread. No democracy is perfect. But I hope we can at least agree that the examples given in the list you provided, did not live up to the standards of modern democracies like USA or Israel - (not to mention more advanced democracies like the Scandinavian countries).

I doubt UN will recognize Palestine. But why is that necessary in order to have elections? And why was it necessary for Hamas and Fatah to kill each other instead of treating each other in a democratic civilized way?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...